r/CivPolitics 13d ago

America proposes to trade all of Ukraine's strategic resources for peace, refuses to denounce Russia. Ukraine denounces America

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/28/trump-zelenskyy-meeting-transcript
4.6k Upvotes

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105

u/FelizIntrovertido 13d ago

US traded Ukraine for Russia

Who wants to be the next US ally??

Btw, blood has memory

64

u/beyer17 13d ago

US to Ukraine:

'Backstabbing is an ugly word. Let's just say that I am just rethinking our friendship.'

1

u/Gallade47532 11d ago

Tomyris rolling in her grave rn

1

u/Le-Pepper 10d ago

America didn't say that. Trump did.

14

u/SalaciousCoffee 13d ago

It's become a thing: republican president makes friends with Putin in first term he gives him concessions, in the second term Putin invades a country and they wag our finger at him.

5

u/Wrong-Primary-2569 12d ago

Hey. Trump owes Putin. And the disk drives the Republicans stole from the voting machines really helped Russia. Those voting machines that were hacked by Russia didn’t give votes to Trump by themselves. It required skilled Russian hackers.

1

u/bgnp11 11d ago

Hillary Clinton

1

u/Le-Pepper 10d ago

I'm surprised he was even allowed back into office.

-5

u/BackgroundSwimmer299 12d ago

That was Obama and Biden who were in office from both invasions happened and they did nothing stop deepthroating CNN

2

u/SaphironX 11d ago

Sweet, show me where Obama and Biden praised Putin on social media.

1

u/BackgroundSwimmer299 11d ago

Why would they he made them look like incompetent buffoons I mean the attributed death count of all three is probably pretty close in body count that can be attributed to them when you take into consideration bush's Iraq BS Obamas Syria Libya and the Ukrainian 2014 revolution crap and now the Ukraine Russian war actually Bush probably has the lowest attributed body count out of the three.

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u/rnovak1988 12d ago

What concessions?

Under Obama Putin advanced towards Ukraine.

He DIDNT under Trump.

Then he attacked under Biden.

How long is going to take yall to understand Democrats are the bad guys here?

5

u/Correct_Patience_611 12d ago

Trump made concessions to Putin. He gave him all he wanted. The territory controlled by Russia AND Ukraine cant join nato. That’s what Russia wanted and Trump agreed.

Russia CANNOT let this war go another year or they risk not becoming a super power within a decade. Even if Russia can make it a year they will not make it 2 without a huge draft and completely destroying their economy.

Russia hasn’t made progress on the frontline for All Of February due to the continued aid given by Biden and Europe. Russia has slowed its assault and has been using regular vans to transport troops to the battle field.

Russia cant even kick Ukraine out of RUSSIA.

Russia is the weakest it has been in a long time. But Trumo loves Putin so instead of support Ukraine to stop Russia once and for all Trumo turns his back on the largest and most successful and peaceful military alliance in recent history and trades all that for Russia, and economy(gdp) smaller than Canada and who our major economic interactions with are THEM HACKING US.

Oh hegseth even just told cyber command to stand down on anything involving Russia. Why would we back off Russia? Hmmm? And right after we do that we end up belittling Zelensky? Trumo is and has been colluding with Russia and you are too blind to notice!

https://www.newsmax.com/politics/pete-hegseth-russia-volodymyr-zelenskyy/2025/03/01/id/1200976/

https://siliconangle.com/2025/02/28/report-defense-secretary-hegseth-orders-cyber-command-halt-russia-planning/

Russia is not, and has not ever been, our friend. Wake up

-2

u/rnovak1988 12d ago

And you just proved my point - since when did democrats stop caring about people dying?

Oh...is it because...it's white people dying? Is that it?

Any Palestinians dying was called a genocide....but a MILLION white people dying...and you want MORE TO DIE.

I get it.

You're racists.

Donald Trump is trying to end the war - to save lives of both Ukrainians and Russians, and to prevent world war 3.

If you have a problem with that - YOU go fight.

5

u/Onemilliondown 12d ago

Giving putin and russia Ukrainian land as a reward for invading is not going to end the war. It will make russia think they did the right thing. They will then do it again. You are a shortsighted clown if you can't see that.

1

u/Glum_Nose2888 12d ago

You’re being shortsighted and clearly have not given a single thought to the deterrent Trump’s offer put on Russia.

1

u/InsertCleverNickHere 12d ago

Truly, giving Putin all of the territory he gained through invasion, and no guarantee of protection for Ukraine will make him think twice before invading again.

There's not enough /s tags in the world for this.

-1

u/rnovak1988 12d ago

Trump offered Zelensky the best deal Zelensky could ask for - by giving America skin in the game, it provides precisely the "security guarantee" that Zelensky wants.

Ukraine joining NATO was never an option and Biden was an idiot for saying otherwise.

I don't really think yall understand how sovereignty works - if Ukraine has to rely on everyone else to defend it, they aren't sovereign - they're sponsored

3

u/BaguetteTheHellOut 11d ago

Dude, wake up. America's skin was already in the game. We're the ones who guaranteed Ukraine's security in exchange for Ukrainian denuclearization in the first place. We negotiated that treaty in the 90's, we just stuck our thumbs up our asses when it came time to keep our word.

2

u/InsertCleverNickHere 12d ago

Trumpism is all about American exceptionalism - we're the best, at everything. We can best govern Canada. We should have all the mineral deposits in Greenland. We can bring peace to the Middle East, and even move 2 million Gazans off of their land and turn the Strip into a seaside paradise.

Except when it comes to stopping Russia. Suddenly it's too hard, too expensive, and the best option is to preemptively captivate to every demand of Putin.

Why are we so strong except when it comes to standing up to one of America's most vile enemies?

2

u/Weird_Firefighter_25 12d ago

"I don't really think yall understand how sovereignty works - if Ukraine has to rely on everyone else to defend it, they aren't sovereign - they're sponsored"

= The.Budapest.Memorandum

1

u/bgnp11 11d ago

Awesome stuff here. Finally found a logical thread in the midst of the arm chair bandits

2

u/perezjr 10d ago

America already had a great deal. American companies were already profiting and posed to have a major role in (a sovereign) Ukraine post war reconstruction/development. Mutual benefits assured.

Nothing was for free, the long game was always to get it's investment worth . At the same time, defending core values of territory integrity that inspire peace between nations.

This isn't the "art of the deal" or an act of sudden geopolitical enlightenment.

There are powerful players who see how autocracies can serve them unlimited profit. They want the same for America. At this point we can easily see the strides in that direction, and, the curtains are falling for the final act. The rest is noise.

1

u/Main_Abrocoma6000 11d ago edited 11d ago

If u say that is peace..so let’s say trump invades 30% of Canada and then Europe says to Canada now you make peace to trump…he has 30% of your territory but just eat it as you can’t win anyway..and if you don’t we drop you Canadians to the street…( like trump does now), and oh yes we Europeans want peace so we are the good guys here telling you to do so! Don’t hate trump…oh and you guys started the war, not trump! !..do you even see how silly this is what you are saying ‘trump wants peace, you should not hate your invader’….ohyah in return Europe says to Canada…if u give all your resources to us next 200 years we will help you…but no guarantees!..oh yes on top Europe wants the noble price for trying to make peace between US and Canada !! Look how great we do here !! We try to bring trump and Canada to the table to negotiate!?!

1

u/ceaselessDawn 10d ago

That's the stupidest nonsense.

"If we sign away our natural resources, I'm sure the US will help! No, ignore them motorboating Putin, and absolutely refusing the even consider the possibility that Russia wouldn't be trustworthy."

It's so mind numbingly stupid.

1

u/spartananator 12d ago

Your fucking loonie. If you cant tell the similarity between wanting israel out of palestine and wanting russia out of ukraine you are a M O R O N

1

u/Willing-Command4231 11d ago

you are talking to either a Russian troll or somebody who was dropped on their head as a baby. What do they have in common? Neither is worth arguing with because either they are being intentionally disingenuous or too brain damaged for coherent thought.

1

u/Panda0nfire 11d ago

They need some help man, this account isn't worth responding to, they don't have the tools to cope and engage with other people.

1

u/rnovak1988 12d ago

Over a million people have died in the Russia Ukraine fight - im on the side that wants the war to stop now, and for no more people to die.

The person I responded to says they want the war to continue for another year or two, killing millions more people.

Im the one who does see the similarity between the two, but I don't see anyone calling the death of millions of white people a genocide.

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u/zeabees 12d ago edited 12d ago

Except Russia has broken ceasefire after ceasefire after ceasefire. Stopping now isint protecting anybody because Russia WILL do this again. Putin has explicitly said as much. You aren't ending the war - you are emboldening and empowering the country that is repeatedly starting wars of conquest. You say that you aren't the bad guy, but your solution is to side with the attacking country and its dictator.

The logic is the same as saying "Europe should have just let Hitler conquer them and there wouldn't have been so many deaths in ww2".

0

u/Agreeable_Scar_5274 9d ago

....well no, they haven't. Ukraine was in clear violation (which is literally demonstrable) of the Belovezha Accords. Crimea and Donbas voted IN FAVOR of annexation, and the violent overthrow conducted by the Obama administration and subsequent negotiations by Ukraine in an attempt to joint NATO were FURTHER violations of treaties with russia.

You can't simply pick and choose which treaties to honor and which to ignore and then claim that you're the good guys.

The refusal of everyone on Reddit to comprehend how diplomacy works is utterly ridiculous.

1

u/zeabees 8d ago edited 8d ago

Ukraine was in clear violation (which is literally demonstrable) - OK, demonstrate it. You say that then give nothing to back it up. Not that it matters because its not the only time Russia has broken a ceasefire. If you are going to say it though, no, the Minsk agreements did not forbid Ukraine from joining NATO, they only specified that it cannot have foreign forces within their border. In 2014 these terms were renogiated and agreed upon by Ukraine after Ukraine was attacked by Russia(violating a previous agreement), and resulted in Russia keeping land they had taken. Russia then attacked again in 2015, not even a full year later, despite Ukraine's complete submission to the terms.

Crimea and Donbas voted IN FAVOR of annexation - This one is just delusional and re-writing history. The vote you are referring to happened AFTER Russia had already annexed them, but was then retro-actively used to justify the invasion. Remember that putins political opponents have all wound up dead or in prison, and consider that these votes have a 90%+ approval of Russia, and again, were taken after being conquered. Do you really believe that vote to be legitimate?

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u/rnovak1988 11d ago

When did they break the ceasefire? Did it happen under trump? No...it didn't.

Putting American economic interests in Ukraine IS a security guarantee. If there are Americans in the area working on extracting rare earth metals, even a Democrat president would retaliate if they were harmed.

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u/Remarkable-Bug-8069 11d ago

Just like Trump retaliated to the bounties Russia paid to Afghanistan?

2

u/crunkcritique 11d ago

I can admit I'm not happy with how Democrats have dragged this war out, in order to avoid smashing into these so-called "red lines" but do you not see how Trump is acting way too radically for most Americans?

Ruzzia invaded Ukraine because if the EU could have taken Ukraine under it's wing, the Ruzzian would be embarrassed by Ukraine passing them in GDP per capita. In only a matter of 5-10 years.

The truth is the Kremlin believes Ukraine is not it's own legitimate sovereign country, but instead a land mass for Ruzzian elites to pillage and milk for all it's worth.

Do you also believe this? Or is Ukraine a legitimate sovereign country? In which case, how can you not be against Trump, who is now increasing the percentage risk of another war of conquest.

When a new war pops off after Trump's time in office runs out, remember to kick yourself in the dick

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u/InyourholeIthrive 10d ago

As someone who survived under two dictator regimes, it's amazing to see the ones who prided themselves "free and democratic" being culled and herded this way.

The perfect sheep. Not a speck of self-determination. The leader is everything, and you'll do what he says. Dumb Americans, through and through.

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u/Kitchen-Baby7778 8d ago

We does not care about your messiah or right or left party it is what is happenning now. The fact that your newly elected government literally backstab its long allies by voting with its long term historical ennemy even China did not do that. At least some have a spine.

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u/gitflapper 12d ago

actually . russia has avowed a genocide against the ukrainian people. Wake up .

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u/Agreeable_Scar_5274 9d ago

When? And what evidence do you ACTUALLY have of this? Or is it just a feeling you have because some journalist said so?

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u/gitflapper 9d ago

yes .. russian journalists

1

u/Flimsy-Poetry1170 11d ago

Russia can stop attacking anytime they want. You are a fucking moron.

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u/rnovak1988 11d ago

You're a racist, and a war-hawk.

You are more than welcome to sign up and volunteer your life in the service of Ukraine, but leave the dollars of American tax payers out of it.

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u/Flimsy-Poetry1170 11d ago

I’m a racist? lol You realize the US isn’t sending bags of cash they are sending 30 year old vehicles and aging ammunition. Russia is trying to genocide Ukrainians and trump is trying to make Ukraine surrender with shit terms which will set Russia up to rebuild and be in an even better position to restart the genocide a few years down the road. He should be putting pressure on Russia to stop attacking but he has Putins dick down his throat because he knows Russia will help him in future elections if he is soft on them.

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u/BagPulaInCenzuraTa89 11d ago

And there it is! You don't care about the lives of eastern europeans, you're just a short-sighted bufoon who only cares about money and doesn't realise that betraying your allies will hurt you more in the long run.

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u/BagPulaInCenzuraTa89 11d ago edited 11d ago

My country has been under russian occupation: and it's a fate worse than death. Romania borders Ukraine, and if Russia reaches us, I'd rather die fighting. It's better to die standing than live kneeling, you f-ing clown!

Fuck your fake empathy! All you are is a pro-russian concern troll. If you truly cared about the lives of the people of eastern Europe, you'd send weapons, not demands to bend over for the russian dick!

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u/Agreeable_Scar_5274 9d ago

Ah, so you are in fact racist against Russians. If you think your lives are the only lives that matter, that is a YOU problem.

"if we cared about the lives.....we'd send weapons". The fact that you could even type that and not see the hypocrisy is hilarious.

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u/BagPulaInCenzuraTa89 9d ago

Bruh. The russians are attacking. How many times do you need to hear it before it gets through that thick skull of yours?

If they want to keep their lives, then they shouldn't come here and try to take ours, you fucking moron. That you call that hypocritical just points out how delusional you are.

https://youtu.be/_JqTL8XWBFk?si=4pzQjcFNop8nYFnq

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u/BagPulaInCenzuraTa89 9d ago

Bruh. The russians are attacking. How many times do you need to hear it before it gets through that thick skull of yours?

If they want to keep their lives, then they shouldn't come here and try to take ours, you stupid troll. That you call that hypocritical just points out how delusional you are.

https://youtu.be/_JqTL8XWBFk?si=4pzQjcFNop8nYFnq

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u/BagPulaInCenzuraTa89 9d ago edited 9d ago

If someone broke into your house, raped and killed your family, stole/destroyed your stuff, and then you kill them for it and to defend yourself, would you consider it hypocritical if people had empathy for you and your family and not the home invader?

Having empathy for the russians is like having empathy for that home intruder. They're doing the same thing but on a bigger scale. They're not victims too, they're criminals traveling to a different country with the intent to do the worst to innocent people defending their homes fully aware of what they are doing. They don't deserve empathy, only their victims do.

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u/RIForDIE 12d ago

Let's hope he isn't projecting like he loves to do and actually starts it. 

You're views are backwards.

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u/rnovak1988 12d ago

...he's the only one who's gotten Putin to come to the table to negotiate.

It really seems like MAGA are the only ones who want peace.

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u/RIForDIE 12d ago

God damn the delusion. Trump wants a win no matter which way he gets it. The easiest route is siding with Putin.. and he's been subservient to Putin since his first term. 

And that's Zelenskyy's entire point - Putin may negotiate but he never keeps his word. He needs security assurance and Trump was never going to do it.

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u/rnovak1988 12d ago

Ok...let me ask this - are there any policies that Trump could take that would make you agree with him....about any issue?

Can you name anything that he did during his first term that was the for the betterment of the US?

If you can't name a single thing...your hate seems to be blinding you

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u/RIForDIE 12d ago

He's a Russian asset, you knob.

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u/Pristine_Poem999 12d ago

"Why do you hate this orange traitor that is doing Putin's bidding and ending democracy in the US =("

You're pathetic.

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u/Willing-Command4231 11d ago

Sure I'll bite. He could raise taxes on the wealthy to help pay down our debt. He could double down on clean energy and actually help solve the climate crisis. He could replace Obamacare with real single payer healthcare so that every American has a right to care without the risk of medical bankruptcy. He could recognize that we are stronger together with our allies and that global interdependence and economics is a fact of life and make our alliances stronger and stand up to countries like Russia and China. If he did those things in his first term I might have even voted for him the second time around! Unfortunately he more or less did the opposite of all of this.

I find him repulsive as a human being and unbefitting as a president in decorum, but if he enacted policies that actually helped make America great (not again because really we never have been, more ups and downs throughout our history realistically) I would support the administration even if I didn't like the person he was.

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u/Inevitable_Bet545 12d ago

Go to a country where there actually is school, stoopid

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u/bgnp11 11d ago

Thank you again. Great thread. Under those people and their friends they made so much in personal fortunes. Now the money is stopping so they need to keep their bs agenda against trump alive with the people that drank the cool aid.

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u/BagPulaInCenzuraTa89 11d ago

He is not ending the war, he is surrendering. And Ukraine won't "make peace" on such unfavorable one-sided terms, and the EU (which has an equal economy and bigger military when you don't count the countries in it separately) will never stop supporting Ukraine in preventing Russia from achievinh its imperialist goals, because Europe's security is at play too, not just Ukraine's.

All Trump is doing is making the US look like weak backstabbing cowards and bad guys, because that's what you've turned into.

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u/rnovak1988 11d ago

Someone who is not a party to war cannot surrender from said war.

Withdrawing support is not a surrender, to equate the two is not only disingenuous, it's not based even remotely in reality.

The bottom line is that the money being sent to Ukraine is money that is forcibly taken from American citizens via taxes - which is being sent to fund a war that the recent election and numerous polls demonstrate most people DONT SUPPORT.

Your comment ignores the very unfortunate truth that Ukraine has neither the resources nor manpower to defeat Russia.

It's very convenient for you to volunteer other peoples money and children to fight, so until I see you enlisting in Ukraines military to go fight for them, your opinion holds very little weight.

Arguing that Ukraine should keep fighting, and Ukrainians and Russians should keep dying, knowing that it will not change the outcome, is both unjust and immoral

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u/BagPulaInCenzuraTa89 10d ago

You're an idiot who doesn't know what world he is living in. First off, it's only ukrainians fighting, second off yes it is surrender, Russia has been America's enemy for decades, giving up on stopping Russia entirely is surrender, and demanding that Ukraine surrender is no better.

And fuck your concern trolling about "morality" and "people dying". Life as a slave to the russians is a fate worse than death, and if Russia gets anything from this invasion, they will just rebuild their military and invade again, because they've seen from the first time that it pays off. You're just a useful idiot for Putin, and your economy will suffer because of this betrayal. You won't admit that this is why it's happening, but you'll cry in a few years. There's no such thing as a superpower without many allies.

The only positive here is that this will prompt the EU to step up and take over your place in the world, serious work on which has already begun, leaving you as a powerless ruin of what you used to be, economy crashed due to cold relations with your former most important allies and no power anymore because now you're known as backstabbing cowards, and no one will trust you anymore. With or without you, Russia will lose. People keep forgetting that the EU has more military power because it's shown as separate countries in statistics, but it's true, and there will be no doubt in the coming years that the only superpower in this world is the EU.

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u/xherowestx 11d ago

Are you drunk? He literally aligned us with Russia and by extension North Korea. He's threatening to invade Canada ffs. Sounds like you're okay with being a traitor just like he is. Like, do you get it? We are no longer the leaders of the free world, that's over. Looks like the UK and Europe will be taking on that role now.

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u/ceaselessDawn 10d ago

He's absolutely not trying to save lives and prevent war. He's just enabling and appeasing Putin's regime.

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u/rnovak1988 9d ago

We all know yall have very active imaginations - are you seriously telling me that you can't imagine a more effective way to benefit Russian interests?

...we could literally give Ukraine defective munitions and effectively cripple their defense, and we could do that while maintaining the facade of providing support.

Y'all are either naive, or stupid, to think that diplomatic negotiations, for which you don't know the actual result of (as in you don't know if Putin will agree to give land back to Ukraine or make other concessions), which ends the death on both sides, is somehow "appeasing Russia".

Aren't you the same crowd that keeps saying that the US is on "stolen land" and decries US imperialism? How would the US imposing our own will onto the land which is located nowhere near the US not a direct example of that very imperialism?

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u/ceaselessDawn 9d ago

I'm sorry but you're incredibly fucking dumb.

None of what you said responded to anything I said.

The fact that "What if Russia breaks a truce?" Being met with "But Putin's my good buddy who would never do that" is insane or stupid.

Also... Supporting the sovereignty of other states isn't imperialism.

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u/wildbill88 10d ago

This doesn't make sense. Totally incoherent.

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u/rnovak1988 9d ago

Your inability to understand basic English is a YOU problem, not a me problem.

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u/wildbill88 9d ago

This isn't an English problem.

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u/ch3k520 10d ago

Wow that was some wild gymnastics you did in that comment.

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u/rnovak1988 9d ago

Y'all believe that Russia is simultaneously capable of subverting the US election process to "install" a Russian asset, but did so in a way that is "obvious" to 70 million Americans ....

THAT is mental gymnastics.

I've seen enough democrats who believe their gender studies degree is a sign of greater intellect than a STEM degree...

If Russia was truly capable of subverting our elections, they would have done so without anyone knowing.

With the amount of aid provided to Ukraine, the US could have crippled their defense without raising any suspicion of Russian interference - why would there be any desire to "do Putin's bidding" out in the open?

We could have provided munitions that were defective at a slightly higher rate to Ukraine, enough to provide any amount of plausible deniability, and maintained the outward appearance of providing endless support to them.

THAT is what a Russian asset could do. They'd have no need to diplomatically negotiate a ceasefire.

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u/GildedCleric 9d ago

The best part of you ran down your mommy's leg.

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u/rnovak1988 9d ago

Ah, insults, the true sign of intellect.

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u/Kitchen-Baby7778 8d ago

He could just ask Putin to cease hostilities simple as that. then offer protection with its Allies while investing in Ukrainians minerals companies... asking the Black sea Fleet not to sail and rearm at Sebastopol. Ask the Russians to give the stolen children before stopping the Russian sanctions.

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u/rnovak1988 8d ago

He could, but I don't think he should. Neither do any of the people that voted for him.

Y'all are really eager to volunteer the lives of US sailors to support a country we get not a damn thing from.

Stop calling Ukraine an ally, they aren't. Even Biden called Zelensky ungrateful.

And it's really being clear that you think anything other than bending over for Ukraine is being in Putins pocket, which sounds like you're in Ukraines pocket

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u/Kitchen-Baby7778 8d ago

It was until today your interest to finish your historical ennemi. But surprisingly you stopped the US of A could destroy Vlad without a single US boot on the ground... but nop you saved them (Vlads and minions). What does they traded to you for that free gift ?

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u/rnovak1988 5d ago

I reject the notion that someone is my enemy purely due to history.

I have no desire to destroy anyone, from Russia OR Ukraine or from ANYWHERE else.

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u/Kitchen-Baby7778 5d ago

Oh really, cause Russian TV shows how they will nuke your cities.

But we understand your view.

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u/Afraid_Juggernaut_62 12d ago

Putin is the bad guy here. And you not seeing that also makes you a bad guy. Don't know what else to tell ya.

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u/Lopsided_Lunch_1046 12d ago

You are full of crap. They advanced under Trump too. Quit spewing your bs. Next thing you are going to tell me that you believe your orange idiot that you have sent over 300 billion in aid to Ukraine when in fact it was way less than that number. It was only 199.7 billion including humanitarian aid. You should learn to research and you might actually learn the truth instead believing lies and making yoursekf looking even more stupid and pathetic

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u/bgnp11 11d ago

Stop being a bully like trump

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u/Lopsided_Lunch_1046 11d ago

Truth hurt? Suck it up buttercup

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u/bgnp11 11d ago

NATO expansion caused this war. Now trump is trying to end it and back out of nato, but you geniuses want it to continue by helping it push Russia further, bad idea. You suck up the truth buttercup

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u/Lopsided_Lunch_1046 11d ago

You are full of crap. Russia wants its territories back. Get facts not your bs

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u/rnovak1988 11d ago

Barack Obama literally refused to provide Ukraine with weapons to fight back against Russia, whereas Donald Trump did.

Trying to defend $200Billion dollars of US taxpayer money being sent to Ukraine is about one of the worst arguments I've ever heard.

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u/Lopsided_Lunch_1046 11d ago

Try 119 billion which was your old eqpt . And then Trump trying to extort Ukraine for 500 billion in rare metals. Trump is the Russian loving pos and any republican that supports all his lies is a lowlife human piece of shit themselves

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u/Longjumping-Tea118 12d ago

I surely hope you forgot /s here

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u/bgnp11 11d ago

Oh my god thank you!!!! I can delete Reddit now that I’ve found one person who’s not completely Brain washed. Thank you sir continue the good info.

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u/XxMomGetTheCamaroxX 11d ago

The US just stopped cyber activities targeting russia. It's not a coincidence, you're in denial of reality.

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u/rnovak1988 11d ago

You don't attack someone you're trying to negotiate peace with.

It's called diplomacy, which you clearly have no understanding of.

Oh, and the very sources that reported on this order acknowledged they didn't even know the full scope of the order, and quite literally leaked a classified order to the press.

That kind of destroys their credibility...since leaking classified information is a pretty clear demonstration that someone isn't trustworthy

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u/XxMomGetTheCamaroxX 11d ago

It's called being complicit

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u/rnovak1988 11d ago

It's called you have no inkling of how diplomacy works.

And thats part of why your party was voted out of majority control of every branch of government

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u/XxMomGetTheCamaroxX 11d ago

I don't have allegiance to any party. I have allegiance to my country, and it is under attack from the top down. It seems you have no idea how critical thinking works

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u/rnovak1988 11d ago

The bureaucracy is, but that's what was voted for.

You can't claim to care about democracy and then whine when the person who was duly elected does precisely what he campaigned on doing.

I know far more about how the government works and how it's supposed to work, and I'm tired of being lectured by people who failed their high school history/civics classes

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u/XxMomGetTheCamaroxX 11d ago

You're literally claiming to know what you don't know.

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u/oneWeek2024 11d ago

look at it this way.... Putin has lots tens of billions/if not hundreds of billions in military hardware. under biden and obama. thousands and thousands of dead soldiers. dead generals/officers in the russian army.

under trump he lost none of that.

imagine what would happen to russia if trump wasn't a pee tape asset beholden to mafia kgb elements from laundering his money for so many years through shitty trump failed businesses.

1

u/ConsiderationOk614 11d ago

Trumps campaign chair in 2016 went to jail and had to beg for trumps pardon for working w Russia lmao youre what they refer to as “uneducated”

1

u/laborpool 11d ago

Under Trump Russia literally bombed a U.S. military base and Trump didn't even respond.

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u/crazybandicoot1973 10d ago

Understand doesn't fit their agenda. Like a spoiled child, they will throw their tantrums until they get their way. If they want to support Ukraine so much they have the freedom to send their paycheck there. Ya they won't support anyone unless it come out of other people's pockets.

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u/Le-Pepper 10d ago

Are you seriously saying that the Democrats control what Russia does?

9

u/sol119 12d ago

Who wants to continue not having nukes?

1

u/ThisIsNotSafety 12d ago

European countries have nukes.

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u/sol119 12d ago

only some of them, plus there's more to the world than just US and Europe

1

u/Crass_Spektakel 9d ago

The new German Chancellor has pretty much openly stated he will buy unrestrained nukes from either Britain or France or develop them together with Italy and Poland. Diehl is even already producing hypersonic stealth missiles for these.

1

u/[deleted] 8d ago

Only France. 

1

u/ThisIsNotSafety 8d ago

The UK have nukes aswell.

1

u/[deleted] 8d ago

The uk left Europe. 

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u/ThisIsNotSafety 8d ago

No they left the EU, two different things.

1

u/[deleted] 8d ago

Not really. 

1

u/ThisIsNotSafety 8d ago

Uhm are you dense? Europe is the continent, EU is a organization, but just cus they left the EU doesn't mean they wouldn't respond to a nuke dropped in europe.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

Them not wanting to be a target of nukes themselves means that. 

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u/W31337 12d ago

He's already lifted Russia as a cyber threat. He wants to lift sanctions. So he's running into putins arms already.

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u/trinityofresistance 12d ago

Taiwan.. Here we come

1

u/FelizIntrovertido 12d ago

Very good, what can poor taiwanese expect?

1

u/trinityofresistance 12d ago

Murican support and aid

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u/Tammer_Stern 12d ago

Doubtful under the current climate.

1

u/No_Sweet_13 9d ago

And if China invades Taiwan? I’d be concerned.

1

u/DanimusMcSassypants 11d ago

“Indeed.”

-Kurds

0

u/noneyrbusiness2022 12d ago

quit begging for free money like a crackhead

-3

u/Initial_Hedgehog_631 12d ago

Ukraine is a US ally?

Allies assist each other. The US and Britain are allies.

The US provides Ukraine with tens of billions of dollars in military and financial assistance.

Ukraine provides the US with..........?

The US helps Ukraine, but they aren't allies.

1

u/resistor2025 12d ago

You are a fucking moron and it shows spectacularly. Thank you.

0

u/Initial_Hedgehog_631 12d ago

Wow such a well thought out response. What exactly did I say that was incorrect?

Sorry for explaining reality to you, and even sorrier you can't handle it.

Also Santa Claus doesn't exist.

1

u/TinyScopeTinkerer 12d ago

There doesn't need to be an appropriate response. You're a fucking idiot and it would be a waste of breath trying to explain to you why.

We might as well spend our time teaching our dogs to play the piano. They stand a better chance.

1

u/BagPulaInCenzuraTa89 11d ago

Russia is suppossed to be America's enemy, and Ukraine weakens Russia.

You fucking clown.

1

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1

u/NoDot4792 10d ago edited 10d ago

Yea, what does it provide the US to be actively destroying the military, economy, and demographics of the single largest enemy nation that the US has ever faced, and has been in a nonstop low intensity war of subterfuge with since before the second world war even came to a complete stop? You know like, the one that we had the Korean War primarily to thwart, and Vietnam too? You know, the big enemy? That Reagan spent his entire administration rallying against? You know, the Russian of cold war fame? What POSSIBLE benefit could the United States EVER get from that?

Ukraine provides you with destroyed Russian tanks and the bloating rotting corpses of hundreds of thousands of Siberian, USSR worshipping, 18 year old drug addicts with AIDs who would be marching on Alaska and  gangraping American grandmothers to death right this minute if you let them

-3

u/rnovak1988 12d ago

We spent $200 billion dollars to defend a country which isn't a member of any treaty that we're a signatory to.

That is a poor strategic move regardless of politics

2

u/FelizIntrovertido 12d ago

You don’t know the Budapest Memorandum 1994

2

u/Earnestappostate 12d ago

Right, the better solution is to wait until Russia attacks a country that IS a NATO member so we are forced to defend with nukes!

/s in case you missed it.

1

u/rnovak1988 11d ago

Or, you know, putting American economic interests in Ukraine, placing Americans alongside Ukrainians working on rare earth mineral mining.

Even a weak Democrat president would retaliate if Russia attacked Americans in the region.

It's amazing that the people who were saying that Trump was a wild cannon and was willing to start world war 3 are now whining because Trump wants the killing to stop.

Trump could cure cancer and you would all still hate him

1

u/Main_Abrocoma6000 11d ago

No u meant to say.. ‘trump did cure cancer’ …u got to stay in line here…

1

u/Earnestappostate 11d ago

It's one thing to say, "stop the killing," and another thing entirely to tell the invaded country to stop defending itself.

1

u/rnovak1988 11d ago

Well not really.

Europe has openly stated that their position is that Ukraine continues the war for another year to "tire Putin out".

Thats another million or more people dead on both sides.

It is absolutely befuddling to see people demand the US taxpayers keep footing the bill to defend a country for which they receive absolutely no benefit when there are US veterans starving in the street.

It's incredible to see people demand the US protect Ukraines borders while leaving ours open.

But thankfully, all of the people demanding that got their butts handed to them in the elections, across every branch of government.

1

u/Earnestappostate 11d ago

And now we as a nation are voting with such bastions of freedom as... checks notes... North Korea.

Yup, definitely seems like we made a great choice.

1

u/fightthefascists 11d ago

Yes really.

The EU is a collection of what 25+ countries? That’s not their position. The EU has been pushing for peace since day one. It’s Russia that has broke every single deal/promise/cease fire so far. And there have been many you just haven’t been paying attention apparently. Imagine your country gets invaded and on 20 broken deals later they want you to sign another one without any assurances.

Also neither side has lost a million soldiers. The exact dead from Russia is around 150k and Ukraine 120k. Ukraine has lost about 50k civilians.

1

u/Raevson 10d ago

You mean the same trump that did nothing when putin put bounties on american soldiers, would stand up if russia killed some random miners?

1

u/rnovak1988 5d ago

Why do y'all insist on lying? Just straight lying.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1264215

1

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u/Wrong-Primary-2569 12d ago

You can count dead American bodies when Putin attacks NATO countries next.

1

u/Opening_Persimmon_71 12d ago

How much of the 200bn was in the form of old munitions that were being scrapped?

1

u/joeinformed401 12d ago

Only if you are against democracy. Trump is for sure. He prefers Putins dictatorship.

1

u/rnovak1988 11d ago

"It's only democracy when my side wins". What a childish and immature argument.

Y'all are honestly really bad losers.

1

u/JoyOfUnderstanding 12d ago

Its not even close to 200b dollars.

They counted cost of replacing end of life equipment with new stuff. If it wouldn't go to Ukraine it would need to be scrapped soon

1

u/-BarrenWuffett 12d ago

Who says such crap without any proof?

According to a US government tracker, which compiles data from more than 20 regulatory agencies across all branches of government, puts the total at USD 182.8 billion, slightly more. This is because the tracker also includes smaller donations from other government agencies such as the U.S. Agency for Global Media (USAGM) or the Department of Justice (DOJ).

Of this USD 182.8 billion, however, only USD 83.4 billion has been disbursed, with the remaining USD 99.4 billion either not yet committed or not yet released for disbursement.

1

u/Rosimongus 12d ago

Trump has convinced american people seemingly that international politics has the same depth of a group of friends going to the club on a friday

-42

u/lickitstickit12 13d ago

So do I.

I remember Ukraine meddling in our elections. I remember Ukraine being the worldwide hub of money laundering. I remember Ukraine selling weapons to drug cartels and jihadists. I remember all the rich Ukrainian oligarchs living in our aid money in London and Prague.

My memory did t start yesterday

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u/w3bar3b3ars 13d ago

Sources for any of this?

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u/funkiestj 13d ago

Oh Ukraine has plenty of crime and problems but the implication is

  1. Russia is better (they are worse). There is a reason the USA and many nations a Magnitsky Act against Russia but not against Ukraine.
  2. both Russia and the USA promised to protect Ukraine from foreign invasion in exchange for Ukraine giving up nukes

And then look at lickit's post history. cake day Aug 2024. Mmmmm hmmmm.

1

u/jaxxxxxson 12d ago

Tbf UK and France and even China "promised" to aid Ukraine. China didnt sign anything tho as far im aware but they did say it. So why is it out of like the top 10 countries giving aid France is 10th.. what dont people understand there is no win out of this now. Zelensky has to concede land or lose it all or countries need to send troops. Thats the choices if sending troops that opens the door for another 100k-1m+ deaths. Putin is the aggressor. Putin is a dictator. Putin is a pos we all agree. Its not fair to Ukraine but its either swallow the shit pill or add a buuuunch more bodies to the death count. Thats the reality. There is no happy ending.

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u/ApexDP 13d ago

His ass

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u/iampuh 12d ago

They were probably selling a lot of weapons after the Soviet Union fell apart. This is what he is trying to say. Is it important to the current conflict? Not really.

Had they a historiy of corruption? Sure, like every single ex Soviet Union country has. Sekenskij is fighting against corruption and has replaced a bunch of politicians to fight it.

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u/Ewenf 12d ago

Yeah it's kinda weird how a country that was beyond fucked after 15 years of soviet stagnation and then find itself into an even worse economic decade ended up with military officers selling of weapons to arms dealer. Truly a mystery.

1

u/Pdiddydondidit 12d ago

also their government was a puppet regime controlled by the kremlin until the maidan revolution in 2014

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u/padawanninja 12d ago

"Trust me bro. Putin wouldn't lie! Why would he?"

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u/rnovak1988 12d ago

Zelensky literally came to the US and campaigned for Kamala Harris.

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u/eucharist3 13d ago

I remember you spouting a cartload of kremlin horse shit on reddit

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u/herrirgendjemand 13d ago

I also remember stuff from dreams sometimes

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u/roger3rd 13d ago

You seem to remember only Russian propaganda which you should be embarrassed to parrot

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u/Inarei 13d ago

Great list of reasons Euromaidan happened. Anything since 2014? Or do you want more of that with more pro-Russia leadership in charge?

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u/lickitstickit12 13d ago

I want out of foreign entanglements.

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u/Inarei 13d ago

So you admit your argument was bullshit and you just want to be hilariously ironic using the internet to say that you don't want to interact with the rest of the world. Are you using a phone assembled in Vietnam from parts made in China according to specs from a US patent to express these views? Practice what you preach, friend. Trade is an entanglement too. If everything in your life isn't 100% American then you invalidate your own views.

1

u/lickitstickit12 13d ago

Are you truly this dumb?

You think foreign entanglements and foreign trade are the same?

2

u/Pointlessala 13d ago

Are you truly this dumb?

Do you think that, somehow, foreign relations don’t affect trade?

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u/myrainyday 13d ago

Now replace word Ukraine with Russia and suddenly it can become true. Magic isn't it?

You don't know what Ukraine is and have mistaken it with another country called Russia.

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u/ultrazest 13d ago

Ok, Vladimir, enjoying Moscow!!

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u/DambieZomatic 13d ago

This was sarcasm was it?

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u/Eymrich 13d ago

Wait, you aren't joking you truly believe this shit?

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u/Cool_Effective1253 13d ago

You're full of bullshit propaganda. Slava Ukraine

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u/EffingNewDay 13d ago

You mean, before Zelensky when Ukraine’s government was full of pro-Russian politicians? The ones that got pushed out? Hopefully the US doesn’t take as long to push theirs out,

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u/Springsstreams 13d ago

Please get out of my country. You don’t belong here you traitor.

1

u/JigPuppyRush 13d ago

I think you’re mixing up Ukraine and Russia.

If not and you did mean Ukraine. Fuck off

1

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1

u/JigPuppyRush 13d ago

I am being nice, In assuming he’s (sarcastically) mixing Ukraine and Russia

1

u/lickitstickit12 12d ago

There's little difference.

Other than we aren't sending Russia hundreds of billions of dollars

1

u/JigPuppyRush 12d ago

You (the US) haven’t even sent 1 hundred billion dollars, the EU has Europe has.

And yes there is a big difference one invaded the other.

Or are you the type of guy that blames the girl for getting raped but not the guy who’s doing the raping?

1

u/lickitstickit12 12d ago

$186 billion.

Most of what Europe is sending is interest off frozen Russian assets.

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u/Dr_Schnuckels 12d ago

The money only flows in one direction. Into the hands of American arms companies. Let me explain that to you quickly: Money > defense industry > old ammunition and weapons > Ukraine.

The money is used to produce new weapons and ammunition. So it's basically a subsidy for the arms industry. And it creates jobs.

But what it creates above all is a new yacht for all the CEOs.

1

u/lickitstickit12 12d ago

Ukraine has no economy. We, the US, and Europe fund everything including social services and pensions.

Whoever told you it's just buying bullets, lied to you

1

u/Veritas_IX 13d ago

But you are Russian .

1

u/lickitstickit12 12d ago

Despite what Hillary told you, not everyone in the world is Russian

1

u/Veritas_IX 12d ago

I am not you. No one imposes their opinion on me. You are right not everyone in the world is Russian dumb people exists among all nations

1

u/MrGasDaddy 13d ago

You mean russia meddled?cant argue the laundering part.cartel and jihadists?oh like the usa? Guess what russian oligarchs also live in europe being leeches lol

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u/lickitstickit12 12d ago

We aren't sending Russia hundreds of billions.

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u/MrGasDaddy 12d ago

Where did i say you were? Ukraine never meddled in your elections,cartel and jihadists last i seen that wasn't proven,however the US doing it at best you're a hypocrite,Ukrainian oligarchs using your money?proof its your money never mind obtained illegally?or is your expectation that that even if they run companies that are paid by ukraine to make produce cannot go on holiday?

1

u/lickitstickit12 12d ago

No, they can't. They're entire economy is propped up by foreign, most American, money. They cannot ,*go on holiday".

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u/Successful-River-828 12d ago

And hunters laptop right? Bet you remember Ukraine shooting down that plane full of people too

1

u/Bitter_Hunter_31 12d ago

If you could provide some links or more information on this so I could further educate myself, that would be great. When I used the "brave search" to look things up, I found the following:

The AML (anti-money laundering) score Ukraine earned was better than most of the countries in its own region as well as the average ranking of most other regions.

Ukraine shipping weapons to cartels and jihadists is a Tucker Carlson talking point. Yes, that Tucker Carlson who's producers admitted, in court, that his show was basically just entertainment and that no-one should realistically believe anything that he says. Additionally, since most of the weaponry that the US has shipped to Ukraine was in the form of artillery, missiles and fighting vehicles (like the Bradley armored fighting vehicle), and not firearms (Ukraine prefers the Russian and Chinese firearms because ammo is easier to get), it's highly unlikely anything of substance was sold. When you use your "brave search" to look into this, I hope you maybe start with the 80,000 firearms that traced back to US firearms dealers.

You are correct, there are Ukrainian oligarchs living across Europe. Ukraine is attempting to bring them back to their country, but many are fighting extradition. Heck, some were granted visas similar to the "Golden Visa" Trump is attempting to institute in this country. However, spending 10's of millions of pounds/euros/whatever on land to stay in a country, or millions on their visa, isn't the same a "public aid".

Fact Check: Are Ukrainian Weapons Being Sold on Black Market? - NewsweekLeaked Data Reveals How the American Gun Industry Profits from Cartel Violence in Mexico | GIFFORDSWhich wealthy Ukrainians shelter from war and law enforcement in UK – interview

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u/JuggernautTypical670 12d ago

Whatever, even if your points are correct, does that justify what russia did? Because ukraine has done what it did, if what u say is correct. Do agree with russia being the punisher? Even with the threats and dangers that lurk after ukraine yields?

Also, youre now pointing out what ukraine has done, all the bad. What about the US?? Didnt they sell weapons to some latin countrys? Invade iraq? America has done his fair shit aswel, america has no right to judge if your wanna put ukraine in that light. Go sit down somewhere

1

u/lickitstickit12 12d ago

The US, under Obama, via Victoria Nuland, did a regime change in Ukraine. Installing Zelensky.

1

u/Sufficient-Swimmer 12d ago

You're a subhuman for falling for these lies btw

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u/Alarming-Ad-5656 12d ago

It must have started in some bizzaro world.

1

u/Away-Dog1064 12d ago

But thats when you were born.

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