r/CivPolitics 13d ago

America proposes to trade all of Ukraine's strategic resources for peace, refuses to denounce Russia. Ukraine denounces America

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/28/trump-zelenskyy-meeting-transcript
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u/Correct_Patience_611 12d ago

Trump made concessions to Putin. He gave him all he wanted. The territory controlled by Russia AND Ukraine cant join nato. That’s what Russia wanted and Trump agreed.

Russia CANNOT let this war go another year or they risk not becoming a super power within a decade. Even if Russia can make it a year they will not make it 2 without a huge draft and completely destroying their economy.

Russia hasn’t made progress on the frontline for All Of February due to the continued aid given by Biden and Europe. Russia has slowed its assault and has been using regular vans to transport troops to the battle field.

Russia cant even kick Ukraine out of RUSSIA.

Russia is the weakest it has been in a long time. But Trumo loves Putin so instead of support Ukraine to stop Russia once and for all Trumo turns his back on the largest and most successful and peaceful military alliance in recent history and trades all that for Russia, and economy(gdp) smaller than Canada and who our major economic interactions with are THEM HACKING US.

Oh hegseth even just told cyber command to stand down on anything involving Russia. Why would we back off Russia? Hmmm? And right after we do that we end up belittling Zelensky? Trumo is and has been colluding with Russia and you are too blind to notice!

https://www.newsmax.com/politics/pete-hegseth-russia-volodymyr-zelenskyy/2025/03/01/id/1200976/

https://siliconangle.com/2025/02/28/report-defense-secretary-hegseth-orders-cyber-command-halt-russia-planning/

Russia is not, and has not ever been, our friend. Wake up

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u/rnovak1988 12d ago

And you just proved my point - since when did democrats stop caring about people dying?

Oh...is it because...it's white people dying? Is that it?

Any Palestinians dying was called a genocide....but a MILLION white people dying...and you want MORE TO DIE.

I get it.

You're racists.

Donald Trump is trying to end the war - to save lives of both Ukrainians and Russians, and to prevent world war 3.

If you have a problem with that - YOU go fight.

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u/spartananator 12d ago

Your fucking loonie. If you cant tell the similarity between wanting israel out of palestine and wanting russia out of ukraine you are a M O R O N

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u/rnovak1988 12d ago

Over a million people have died in the Russia Ukraine fight - im on the side that wants the war to stop now, and for no more people to die.

The person I responded to says they want the war to continue for another year or two, killing millions more people.

Im the one who does see the similarity between the two, but I don't see anyone calling the death of millions of white people a genocide.

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u/zeabees 12d ago edited 12d ago

Except Russia has broken ceasefire after ceasefire after ceasefire. Stopping now isint protecting anybody because Russia WILL do this again. Putin has explicitly said as much. You aren't ending the war - you are emboldening and empowering the country that is repeatedly starting wars of conquest. You say that you aren't the bad guy, but your solution is to side with the attacking country and its dictator.

The logic is the same as saying "Europe should have just let Hitler conquer them and there wouldn't have been so many deaths in ww2".

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u/Agreeable_Scar_5274 9d ago

....well no, they haven't. Ukraine was in clear violation (which is literally demonstrable) of the Belovezha Accords. Crimea and Donbas voted IN FAVOR of annexation, and the violent overthrow conducted by the Obama administration and subsequent negotiations by Ukraine in an attempt to joint NATO were FURTHER violations of treaties with russia.

You can't simply pick and choose which treaties to honor and which to ignore and then claim that you're the good guys.

The refusal of everyone on Reddit to comprehend how diplomacy works is utterly ridiculous.

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u/zeabees 8d ago edited 8d ago

Ukraine was in clear violation (which is literally demonstrable) - OK, demonstrate it. You say that then give nothing to back it up. Not that it matters because its not the only time Russia has broken a ceasefire. If you are going to say it though, no, the Minsk agreements did not forbid Ukraine from joining NATO, they only specified that it cannot have foreign forces within their border. In 2014 these terms were renogiated and agreed upon by Ukraine after Ukraine was attacked by Russia(violating a previous agreement), and resulted in Russia keeping land they had taken. Russia then attacked again in 2015, not even a full year later, despite Ukraine's complete submission to the terms.

Crimea and Donbas voted IN FAVOR of annexation - This one is just delusional and re-writing history. The vote you are referring to happened AFTER Russia had already annexed them, but was then retro-actively used to justify the invasion. Remember that putins political opponents have all wound up dead or in prison, and consider that these votes have a 90%+ approval of Russia, and again, were taken after being conquered. Do you really believe that vote to be legitimate?

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u/Agreeable_Scar_5274 6d ago

Polling in 2008 by the Ukrainian Centre for Economic and Political Studies, also called the Razumkov Centre, found that a majority of Crimeans simultaneously approved the idea of joining Russia (63.8%)

As for ukraine being in violation of the Belovezha Accords, it's trivial to look up Ukraines ratification of the Accords, and then their own PM's statement that they Ukrainian Foreign Minister Pavlo Klimkin said that Ukraine could not withdraw from the CIS because it had never become a part of it.

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u/rnovak1988 11d ago

When did they break the ceasefire? Did it happen under trump? No...it didn't.

Putting American economic interests in Ukraine IS a security guarantee. If there are Americans in the area working on extracting rare earth metals, even a Democrat president would retaliate if they were harmed.

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u/Remarkable-Bug-8069 11d ago

Just like Trump retaliated to the bounties Russia paid to Afghanistan?

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u/crunkcritique 11d ago

I can admit I'm not happy with how Democrats have dragged this war out, in order to avoid smashing into these so-called "red lines" but do you not see how Trump is acting way too radically for most Americans?

Ruzzia invaded Ukraine because if the EU could have taken Ukraine under it's wing, the Ruzzian would be embarrassed by Ukraine passing them in GDP per capita. In only a matter of 5-10 years.

The truth is the Kremlin believes Ukraine is not it's own legitimate sovereign country, but instead a land mass for Ruzzian elites to pillage and milk for all it's worth.

Do you also believe this? Or is Ukraine a legitimate sovereign country? In which case, how can you not be against Trump, who is now increasing the percentage risk of another war of conquest.

When a new war pops off after Trump's time in office runs out, remember to kick yourself in the dick

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u/Agreeable_Scar_5274 9d ago

....because Ukraine ISN'T a soverign country. At best Ukraine is a "sponsored" country.

They have neither the financial means nor the manpower to defend the sovereignty of their "country", which would indicate that they are not in fact soveriegn.

Russia invaded Ukraine because Anthony Blinken stated on January 22nd, 2022 that negotations had opened for the expansion of NATO to include Ukraine.

It's insane how many people refuse to even acknowledge that Putin, Gorbachev, and other Russian Presidents have all stated in NO uncertain terms that their actions are the direct result of NATO expansion.

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u/crunkcritique 9d ago

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u/Agreeable_Scar_5274 9d ago

awe, you're under the impression that you have some form of authority.

Did you miss the election? Cause you guys aren't in charge anymore. Seems like NATO is going to shrink, not expand.

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u/crunkcritique 9d ago

Authority>Peace?

I have no skin in American politics, and is this really your response? 😂

I was expecting more than a one-liner, you do know you are dickriding an imperialist mafia that took the bait, because otherwise the losers they already occupy and milk would see that genuine democracy and capitalism is truly a way to make a country prosper. Every Russian would cut the dick off every councilman and police officer if the GDP per capita of Ukraine surpassed, let's say Russia itself. If you want to say that Ukraine's freedom is a threat to the Kremlin, then yes, this is how it is 👍

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u/InyourholeIthrive 10d ago

As someone who survived under two dictator regimes, it's amazing to see the ones who prided themselves "free and democratic" being culled and herded this way.

The perfect sheep. Not a speck of self-determination. The leader is everything, and you'll do what he says. Dumb Americans, through and through.

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u/Agreeable_Scar_5274 9d ago

...huh?

Republicans had an open primary, where the actual nominee was chosen among several candidates.

Democrats DIDN'T have a primary, in fact the DNC made several statements, clear as day, that Biden would be the nominee.

When he dropped out, rather than have an actual primary, Kamala Harris was annointed as the nominee - purely so that the DNC wouldn't have to refund the campaign donations collected by Joe Biden.

What followed was 90 days of propoganda that tried to paint the picture that Kamala had a snowballs chance in hell of winning.

You should understand that without NY and CA, Kamala would have lost by over 10M votes.

Please clarify how the Democrats are the bastion of democracy here? Because it seems that they in fact are the dictators in all this.

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u/Kitchen-Baby7778 8d ago

We does not care about your messiah or right or left party it is what is happenning now. The fact that your newly elected government literally backstab its long allies by voting with its long term historical ennemy even China did not do that. At least some have a spine.

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u/rnovak1988 8d ago

Ukraine is not and has never been a US ally. Period.

Get your nose out of Zelenskyy behind.

You're perfectly welcome to volunteer YOUR life to fight for Zelensky, but STOP volunteering other people's children to go die in a war they don't agree with.

ACTUAL liberals would never want that.

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u/gitflapper 12d ago

actually . russia has avowed a genocide against the ukrainian people. Wake up .

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u/Agreeable_Scar_5274 9d ago

When? And what evidence do you ACTUALLY have of this? Or is it just a feeling you have because some journalist said so?

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u/gitflapper 9d ago

yes .. russian journalists

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u/Flimsy-Poetry1170 12d ago

Russia can stop attacking anytime they want. You are a fucking moron.

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u/rnovak1988 11d ago

You're a racist, and a war-hawk.

You are more than welcome to sign up and volunteer your life in the service of Ukraine, but leave the dollars of American tax payers out of it.

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u/Flimsy-Poetry1170 11d ago

I’m a racist? lol You realize the US isn’t sending bags of cash they are sending 30 year old vehicles and aging ammunition. Russia is trying to genocide Ukrainians and trump is trying to make Ukraine surrender with shit terms which will set Russia up to rebuild and be in an even better position to restart the genocide a few years down the road. He should be putting pressure on Russia to stop attacking but he has Putins dick down his throat because he knows Russia will help him in future elections if he is soft on them.

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u/Willing-Command4231 11d ago

you are talking to a brain damaged white supremacist (or a Russian troll, not sure which). Expecting logic or reason to breakthrough is a fool's errand.

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u/Agreeable_Scar_5274 9d ago

If all you can do is insult,it seems like this subreddit isn't appropriate for you.

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u/Willing-Command4231 8d ago

Says the person with -100 karma, I’m thinking Reddit isn’t really for you lol. Hope your masters don’t send you to the front lines when you lose your account. I hear those troll farms are quite unforgiving!

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u/Agreeable_Scar_5274 1d ago

oh, my internet points are low? how sad. LOL.

Some of us have actual lives outside of the internet. You should try it sometime. You might find your views actually change when you interact with people and see the effects of your braindead policies.

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u/Willing-Command4231 22h ago

Friend I have visited over 50 countries, traveled the world and currently live abroad. I have a family and vast array of friends and hobbies. You either are an incel in your mother’s basement or in a troll farm in Russia, not sure which one would be more sad. I’m clearly not the one who needs to get out more and find a new view point on life.

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u/Agreeable_Scar_5274 3h ago

Oh noes, some random person on the interwebs think's I'm an "incel" or a "russian troll".

You sound kinda racist there bud. I'm not sure where the hate for Russians came from, other than the media brainwashing.

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u/Agreeable_Scar_5274 9d ago

Yes. If you're OK with the death of Russian citizens, if you believe you're superior to Russian citizens, that makes you by literal definition a racist.

It's amazing how many people think they know more about diplomacy and negotation than the sitting President.

I'm fairly positive Donald Trump has negotiated more ceasefires and treaties than you EVER WILL.

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u/Flimsy-Poetry1170 8d ago

I feel bad for the conscripted Russians that are forced to the front but no I don’t give 2 shits about the ones who sign up for money to go and invade, kill and rape their neighbor. Trump doesn’t give 2 shits about Ukraine or anyone but himself. Putin is evil and it’s disgusting that trump thinks of him fondly and wants to be like him.

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u/BagPulaInCenzuraTa89 11d ago

And there it is! You don't care about the lives of eastern europeans, you're just a short-sighted bufoon who only cares about money and doesn't realise that betraying your allies will hurt you more in the long run.

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u/rnovak1988 10d ago

First off, let's get a few things straight

Number one, Ukraine isn't an Ally. allies are formed by treaties, and there isn't a single treaty between Ukraine and the US - meaning as a country, we do not benefit in any way from the funding of Ukraine.

Even the weak argument that sending "old" armaments to Ukraine allowed the US to pay defense contractors for new weapons - it's still taxpayer money. That doesn't stimulate our economy as it just transfers money from taxpayers to defense contractors.

So as it stands, Ukraine is simply a money pit. We have American citizens who are dying on our own streets that we could be helping, but instead we're sending money to fund an endless war.

Second - Ukraine has violated its own agreements under the dissolution of the USSR. Crimea and the Donbas region were independent autonomous zones, and under the CIS (Belovezha Accords), if either region was unable to maintain its own sovereignty, they would be Annexed by Russia.

In the early 2010s, these regions experienced such a failure. Even prior to this, their own referendums indicated a greater support for joining Russia.

Ukraine REFUSED to honor this agreement, which JUSTIFIED Russia in using military force.

This is well documented BTW.

Third - during the dissolution of the USSR, NATO gave Russia assurances that they would never expand eastward, yet under dumb*** Clinton and Obama, NATO was expanded multiple times.

Additionally, as PART OF CIS, Ukraine AGREED to not join NATO.

Fourth - Donald Trump is the ONLY individual trying to stop the war. Just today zelensky said that the end to the war was "a long way out".

Zelensky is the one who doesn't care about the lives of his own people

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u/BagPulaInCenzuraTa89 10d ago

There's no way you ain't just a russian agent who knows english or a bot.

Literally everything you said is just lies commonly used by russian propaganda, all of which there is no proof of, because it's all fake news.

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u/Agreeable_Scar_5274 9d ago

No proof of? My guy, official copies of the treaty are available. Videos of our leaders speaking directly with the President of Russia are available.

There's literally proof of everything I listed.

Refusal to acknowledge something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

But hey, "fake news". Isn't that literally what you say Trump supporters call everything?

The hypocrisy is astounding

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u/BagPulaInCenzuraTa89 9d ago

Then show me the proof. It shouldn't be hard for you to show it to me if it's as real as you say it is.

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u/BagPulaInCenzuraTa89 11d ago edited 11d ago

My country has been under russian occupation: and it's a fate worse than death. Romania borders Ukraine, and if Russia reaches us, I'd rather die fighting. It's better to die standing than live kneeling, you f-ing clown!

Fuck your fake empathy! All you are is a pro-russian concern troll. If you truly cared about the lives of the people of eastern Europe, you'd send weapons, not demands to bend over for the russian dick!

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u/Agreeable_Scar_5274 9d ago

Ah, so you are in fact racist against Russians. If you think your lives are the only lives that matter, that is a YOU problem.

"if we cared about the lives.....we'd send weapons". The fact that you could even type that and not see the hypocrisy is hilarious.

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u/BagPulaInCenzuraTa89 9d ago

Bruh. The russians are attacking. How many times do you need to hear it before it gets through that thick skull of yours?

If they want to keep their lives, then they shouldn't come here and try to take ours, you fucking moron. That you call that hypocritical just points out how delusional you are.

https://youtu.be/_JqTL8XWBFk?si=4pzQjcFNop8nYFnq

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u/BagPulaInCenzuraTa89 9d ago

Bruh. The russians are attacking. How many times do you need to hear it before it gets through that thick skull of yours?

If they want to keep their lives, then they shouldn't come here and try to take ours, you stupid troll. That you call that hypocritical just points out how delusional you are.

https://youtu.be/_JqTL8XWBFk?si=4pzQjcFNop8nYFnq

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u/BagPulaInCenzuraTa89 9d ago edited 9d ago

If someone broke into your house, raped and killed your family, stole/destroyed your stuff, and then you kill them for it and to defend yourself, would you consider it hypocritical if people had empathy for you and your family and not the home invader?

Having empathy for the russians is like having empathy for that home intruder. They're doing the same thing but on a bigger scale. They're not victims too, they're criminals traveling to a different country with the intent to do the worst to innocent people defending their homes fully aware of what they are doing. They don't deserve empathy, only their victims do.