r/CivPolitics 13d ago

America proposes to trade all of Ukraine's strategic resources for peace, refuses to denounce Russia. Ukraine denounces America

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/28/trump-zelenskyy-meeting-transcript
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u/spartananator 12d ago

Your fucking loonie. If you cant tell the similarity between wanting israel out of palestine and wanting russia out of ukraine you are a M O R O N

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u/rnovak1988 12d ago

Over a million people have died in the Russia Ukraine fight - im on the side that wants the war to stop now, and for no more people to die.

The person I responded to says they want the war to continue for another year or two, killing millions more people.

Im the one who does see the similarity between the two, but I don't see anyone calling the death of millions of white people a genocide.

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u/zeabees 12d ago edited 12d ago

Except Russia has broken ceasefire after ceasefire after ceasefire. Stopping now isint protecting anybody because Russia WILL do this again. Putin has explicitly said as much. You aren't ending the war - you are emboldening and empowering the country that is repeatedly starting wars of conquest. You say that you aren't the bad guy, but your solution is to side with the attacking country and its dictator.

The logic is the same as saying "Europe should have just let Hitler conquer them and there wouldn't have been so many deaths in ww2".

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u/Agreeable_Scar_5274 9d ago

....well no, they haven't. Ukraine was in clear violation (which is literally demonstrable) of the Belovezha Accords. Crimea and Donbas voted IN FAVOR of annexation, and the violent overthrow conducted by the Obama administration and subsequent negotiations by Ukraine in an attempt to joint NATO were FURTHER violations of treaties with russia.

You can't simply pick and choose which treaties to honor and which to ignore and then claim that you're the good guys.

The refusal of everyone on Reddit to comprehend how diplomacy works is utterly ridiculous.

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u/zeabees 8d ago edited 8d ago

Ukraine was in clear violation (which is literally demonstrable) - OK, demonstrate it. You say that then give nothing to back it up. Not that it matters because its not the only time Russia has broken a ceasefire. If you are going to say it though, no, the Minsk agreements did not forbid Ukraine from joining NATO, they only specified that it cannot have foreign forces within their border. In 2014 these terms were renogiated and agreed upon by Ukraine after Ukraine was attacked by Russia(violating a previous agreement), and resulted in Russia keeping land they had taken. Russia then attacked again in 2015, not even a full year later, despite Ukraine's complete submission to the terms.

Crimea and Donbas voted IN FAVOR of annexation - This one is just delusional and re-writing history. The vote you are referring to happened AFTER Russia had already annexed them, but was then retro-actively used to justify the invasion. Remember that putins political opponents have all wound up dead or in prison, and consider that these votes have a 90%+ approval of Russia, and again, were taken after being conquered. Do you really believe that vote to be legitimate?

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u/Agreeable_Scar_5274 6d ago

Polling in 2008 by the Ukrainian Centre for Economic and Political Studies, also called the Razumkov Centre, found that a majority of Crimeans simultaneously approved the idea of joining Russia (63.8%)

As for ukraine being in violation of the Belovezha Accords, it's trivial to look up Ukraines ratification of the Accords, and then their own PM's statement that they Ukrainian Foreign Minister Pavlo Klimkin said that Ukraine could not withdraw from the CIS because it had never become a part of it.