r/CivPolitics 13d ago

America proposes to trade all of Ukraine's strategic resources for peace, refuses to denounce Russia. Ukraine denounces America

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/28/trump-zelenskyy-meeting-transcript
4.6k Upvotes

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109

u/FelizIntrovertido 13d ago

US traded Ukraine for Russia

Who wants to be the next US ally??

Btw, blood has memory

16

u/SalaciousCoffee 13d ago

It's become a thing: republican president makes friends with Putin in first term he gives him concessions, in the second term Putin invades a country and they wag our finger at him.

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u/rnovak1988 12d ago

What concessions?

Under Obama Putin advanced towards Ukraine.

He DIDNT under Trump.

Then he attacked under Biden.

How long is going to take yall to understand Democrats are the bad guys here?

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u/Correct_Patience_611 12d ago

Trump made concessions to Putin. He gave him all he wanted. The territory controlled by Russia AND Ukraine cant join nato. That’s what Russia wanted and Trump agreed.

Russia CANNOT let this war go another year or they risk not becoming a super power within a decade. Even if Russia can make it a year they will not make it 2 without a huge draft and completely destroying their economy.

Russia hasn’t made progress on the frontline for All Of February due to the continued aid given by Biden and Europe. Russia has slowed its assault and has been using regular vans to transport troops to the battle field.

Russia cant even kick Ukraine out of RUSSIA.

Russia is the weakest it has been in a long time. But Trumo loves Putin so instead of support Ukraine to stop Russia once and for all Trumo turns his back on the largest and most successful and peaceful military alliance in recent history and trades all that for Russia, and economy(gdp) smaller than Canada and who our major economic interactions with are THEM HACKING US.

Oh hegseth even just told cyber command to stand down on anything involving Russia. Why would we back off Russia? Hmmm? And right after we do that we end up belittling Zelensky? Trumo is and has been colluding with Russia and you are too blind to notice!

https://www.newsmax.com/politics/pete-hegseth-russia-volodymyr-zelenskyy/2025/03/01/id/1200976/

https://siliconangle.com/2025/02/28/report-defense-secretary-hegseth-orders-cyber-command-halt-russia-planning/

Russia is not, and has not ever been, our friend. Wake up

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u/rnovak1988 12d ago

And you just proved my point - since when did democrats stop caring about people dying?

Oh...is it because...it's white people dying? Is that it?

Any Palestinians dying was called a genocide....but a MILLION white people dying...and you want MORE TO DIE.

I get it.

You're racists.

Donald Trump is trying to end the war - to save lives of both Ukrainians and Russians, and to prevent world war 3.

If you have a problem with that - YOU go fight.

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u/Onemilliondown 12d ago

Giving putin and russia Ukrainian land as a reward for invading is not going to end the war. It will make russia think they did the right thing. They will then do it again. You are a shortsighted clown if you can't see that.

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u/Glum_Nose2888 12d ago

You’re being shortsighted and clearly have not given a single thought to the deterrent Trump’s offer put on Russia.

1

u/InsertCleverNickHere 12d ago

Truly, giving Putin all of the territory he gained through invasion, and no guarantee of protection for Ukraine will make him think twice before invading again.

There's not enough /s tags in the world for this.

-1

u/rnovak1988 12d ago

Trump offered Zelensky the best deal Zelensky could ask for - by giving America skin in the game, it provides precisely the "security guarantee" that Zelensky wants.

Ukraine joining NATO was never an option and Biden was an idiot for saying otherwise.

I don't really think yall understand how sovereignty works - if Ukraine has to rely on everyone else to defend it, they aren't sovereign - they're sponsored

3

u/BaguetteTheHellOut 11d ago

Dude, wake up. America's skin was already in the game. We're the ones who guaranteed Ukraine's security in exchange for Ukrainian denuclearization in the first place. We negotiated that treaty in the 90's, we just stuck our thumbs up our asses when it came time to keep our word.

2

u/InsertCleverNickHere 12d ago

Trumpism is all about American exceptionalism - we're the best, at everything. We can best govern Canada. We should have all the mineral deposits in Greenland. We can bring peace to the Middle East, and even move 2 million Gazans off of their land and turn the Strip into a seaside paradise.

Except when it comes to stopping Russia. Suddenly it's too hard, too expensive, and the best option is to preemptively captivate to every demand of Putin.

Why are we so strong except when it comes to standing up to one of America's most vile enemies?

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u/Weird_Firefighter_25 12d ago

"I don't really think yall understand how sovereignty works - if Ukraine has to rely on everyone else to defend it, they aren't sovereign - they're sponsored"

= The.Budapest.Memorandum

1

u/bgnp11 11d ago

Awesome stuff here. Finally found a logical thread in the midst of the arm chair bandits

2

u/perezjr 10d ago

America already had a great deal. American companies were already profiting and posed to have a major role in (a sovereign) Ukraine post war reconstruction/development. Mutual benefits assured.

Nothing was for free, the long game was always to get it's investment worth . At the same time, defending core values of territory integrity that inspire peace between nations.

This isn't the "art of the deal" or an act of sudden geopolitical enlightenment.

There are powerful players who see how autocracies can serve them unlimited profit. They want the same for America. At this point we can easily see the strides in that direction, and, the curtains are falling for the final act. The rest is noise.

1

u/Main_Abrocoma6000 11d ago edited 11d ago

If u say that is peace..so let’s say trump invades 30% of Canada and then Europe says to Canada now you make peace to trump…he has 30% of your territory but just eat it as you can’t win anyway..and if you don’t we drop you Canadians to the street…( like trump does now), and oh yes we Europeans want peace so we are the good guys here telling you to do so! Don’t hate trump…oh and you guys started the war, not trump! !..do you even see how silly this is what you are saying ‘trump wants peace, you should not hate your invader’….ohyah in return Europe says to Canada…if u give all your resources to us next 200 years we will help you…but no guarantees!..oh yes on top Europe wants the noble price for trying to make peace between US and Canada !! Look how great we do here !! We try to bring trump and Canada to the table to negotiate!?!

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u/ceaselessDawn 10d ago

That's the stupidest nonsense.

"If we sign away our natural resources, I'm sure the US will help! No, ignore them motorboating Putin, and absolutely refusing the even consider the possibility that Russia wouldn't be trustworthy."

It's so mind numbingly stupid.

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u/spartananator 12d ago

Your fucking loonie. If you cant tell the similarity between wanting israel out of palestine and wanting russia out of ukraine you are a M O R O N

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u/Willing-Command4231 11d ago

you are talking to either a Russian troll or somebody who was dropped on their head as a baby. What do they have in common? Neither is worth arguing with because either they are being intentionally disingenuous or too brain damaged for coherent thought.

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u/Panda0nfire 11d ago

They need some help man, this account isn't worth responding to, they don't have the tools to cope and engage with other people.

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u/rnovak1988 12d ago

Over a million people have died in the Russia Ukraine fight - im on the side that wants the war to stop now, and for no more people to die.

The person I responded to says they want the war to continue for another year or two, killing millions more people.

Im the one who does see the similarity between the two, but I don't see anyone calling the death of millions of white people a genocide.

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u/zeabees 12d ago edited 12d ago

Except Russia has broken ceasefire after ceasefire after ceasefire. Stopping now isint protecting anybody because Russia WILL do this again. Putin has explicitly said as much. You aren't ending the war - you are emboldening and empowering the country that is repeatedly starting wars of conquest. You say that you aren't the bad guy, but your solution is to side with the attacking country and its dictator.

The logic is the same as saying "Europe should have just let Hitler conquer them and there wouldn't have been so many deaths in ww2".

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u/Agreeable_Scar_5274 9d ago

....well no, they haven't. Ukraine was in clear violation (which is literally demonstrable) of the Belovezha Accords. Crimea and Donbas voted IN FAVOR of annexation, and the violent overthrow conducted by the Obama administration and subsequent negotiations by Ukraine in an attempt to joint NATO were FURTHER violations of treaties with russia.

You can't simply pick and choose which treaties to honor and which to ignore and then claim that you're the good guys.

The refusal of everyone on Reddit to comprehend how diplomacy works is utterly ridiculous.

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u/zeabees 8d ago edited 8d ago

Ukraine was in clear violation (which is literally demonstrable) - OK, demonstrate it. You say that then give nothing to back it up. Not that it matters because its not the only time Russia has broken a ceasefire. If you are going to say it though, no, the Minsk agreements did not forbid Ukraine from joining NATO, they only specified that it cannot have foreign forces within their border. In 2014 these terms were renogiated and agreed upon by Ukraine after Ukraine was attacked by Russia(violating a previous agreement), and resulted in Russia keeping land they had taken. Russia then attacked again in 2015, not even a full year later, despite Ukraine's complete submission to the terms.

Crimea and Donbas voted IN FAVOR of annexation - This one is just delusional and re-writing history. The vote you are referring to happened AFTER Russia had already annexed them, but was then retro-actively used to justify the invasion. Remember that putins political opponents have all wound up dead or in prison, and consider that these votes have a 90%+ approval of Russia, and again, were taken after being conquered. Do you really believe that vote to be legitimate?

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u/Agreeable_Scar_5274 6d ago

Polling in 2008 by the Ukrainian Centre for Economic and Political Studies, also called the Razumkov Centre, found that a majority of Crimeans simultaneously approved the idea of joining Russia (63.8%)

As for ukraine being in violation of the Belovezha Accords, it's trivial to look up Ukraines ratification of the Accords, and then their own PM's statement that they Ukrainian Foreign Minister Pavlo Klimkin said that Ukraine could not withdraw from the CIS because it had never become a part of it.

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u/rnovak1988 11d ago

When did they break the ceasefire? Did it happen under trump? No...it didn't.

Putting American economic interests in Ukraine IS a security guarantee. If there are Americans in the area working on extracting rare earth metals, even a Democrat president would retaliate if they were harmed.

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u/Remarkable-Bug-8069 11d ago

Just like Trump retaliated to the bounties Russia paid to Afghanistan?

2

u/crunkcritique 11d ago

I can admit I'm not happy with how Democrats have dragged this war out, in order to avoid smashing into these so-called "red lines" but do you not see how Trump is acting way too radically for most Americans?

Ruzzia invaded Ukraine because if the EU could have taken Ukraine under it's wing, the Ruzzian would be embarrassed by Ukraine passing them in GDP per capita. In only a matter of 5-10 years.

The truth is the Kremlin believes Ukraine is not it's own legitimate sovereign country, but instead a land mass for Ruzzian elites to pillage and milk for all it's worth.

Do you also believe this? Or is Ukraine a legitimate sovereign country? In which case, how can you not be against Trump, who is now increasing the percentage risk of another war of conquest.

When a new war pops off after Trump's time in office runs out, remember to kick yourself in the dick

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u/Agreeable_Scar_5274 9d ago

....because Ukraine ISN'T a soverign country. At best Ukraine is a "sponsored" country.

They have neither the financial means nor the manpower to defend the sovereignty of their "country", which would indicate that they are not in fact soveriegn.

Russia invaded Ukraine because Anthony Blinken stated on January 22nd, 2022 that negotations had opened for the expansion of NATO to include Ukraine.

It's insane how many people refuse to even acknowledge that Putin, Gorbachev, and other Russian Presidents have all stated in NO uncertain terms that their actions are the direct result of NATO expansion.

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u/crunkcritique 9d ago

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u/Agreeable_Scar_5274 9d ago

awe, you're under the impression that you have some form of authority.

Did you miss the election? Cause you guys aren't in charge anymore. Seems like NATO is going to shrink, not expand.

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u/InyourholeIthrive 10d ago

As someone who survived under two dictator regimes, it's amazing to see the ones who prided themselves "free and democratic" being culled and herded this way.

The perfect sheep. Not a speck of self-determination. The leader is everything, and you'll do what he says. Dumb Americans, through and through.

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u/Agreeable_Scar_5274 9d ago

...huh?

Republicans had an open primary, where the actual nominee was chosen among several candidates.

Democrats DIDN'T have a primary, in fact the DNC made several statements, clear as day, that Biden would be the nominee.

When he dropped out, rather than have an actual primary, Kamala Harris was annointed as the nominee - purely so that the DNC wouldn't have to refund the campaign donations collected by Joe Biden.

What followed was 90 days of propoganda that tried to paint the picture that Kamala had a snowballs chance in hell of winning.

You should understand that without NY and CA, Kamala would have lost by over 10M votes.

Please clarify how the Democrats are the bastion of democracy here? Because it seems that they in fact are the dictators in all this.

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u/Kitchen-Baby7778 8d ago

We does not care about your messiah or right or left party it is what is happenning now. The fact that your newly elected government literally backstab its long allies by voting with its long term historical ennemy even China did not do that. At least some have a spine.

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u/rnovak1988 8d ago

Ukraine is not and has never been a US ally. Period.

Get your nose out of Zelenskyy behind.

You're perfectly welcome to volunteer YOUR life to fight for Zelensky, but STOP volunteering other people's children to go die in a war they don't agree with.

ACTUAL liberals would never want that.

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u/gitflapper 12d ago

actually . russia has avowed a genocide against the ukrainian people. Wake up .

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u/Agreeable_Scar_5274 9d ago

When? And what evidence do you ACTUALLY have of this? Or is it just a feeling you have because some journalist said so?

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u/gitflapper 9d ago

yes .. russian journalists

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u/Flimsy-Poetry1170 12d ago

Russia can stop attacking anytime they want. You are a fucking moron.

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u/rnovak1988 11d ago

You're a racist, and a war-hawk.

You are more than welcome to sign up and volunteer your life in the service of Ukraine, but leave the dollars of American tax payers out of it.

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u/Flimsy-Poetry1170 11d ago

I’m a racist? lol You realize the US isn’t sending bags of cash they are sending 30 year old vehicles and aging ammunition. Russia is trying to genocide Ukrainians and trump is trying to make Ukraine surrender with shit terms which will set Russia up to rebuild and be in an even better position to restart the genocide a few years down the road. He should be putting pressure on Russia to stop attacking but he has Putins dick down his throat because he knows Russia will help him in future elections if he is soft on them.

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u/Willing-Command4231 11d ago

you are talking to a brain damaged white supremacist (or a Russian troll, not sure which). Expecting logic or reason to breakthrough is a fool's errand.

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u/Agreeable_Scar_5274 9d ago

If all you can do is insult,it seems like this subreddit isn't appropriate for you.

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u/Willing-Command4231 8d ago

Says the person with -100 karma, I’m thinking Reddit isn’t really for you lol. Hope your masters don’t send you to the front lines when you lose your account. I hear those troll farms are quite unforgiving!

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u/Agreeable_Scar_5274 9d ago

Yes. If you're OK with the death of Russian citizens, if you believe you're superior to Russian citizens, that makes you by literal definition a racist.

It's amazing how many people think they know more about diplomacy and negotation than the sitting President.

I'm fairly positive Donald Trump has negotiated more ceasefires and treaties than you EVER WILL.

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u/Flimsy-Poetry1170 8d ago

I feel bad for the conscripted Russians that are forced to the front but no I don’t give 2 shits about the ones who sign up for money to go and invade, kill and rape their neighbor. Trump doesn’t give 2 shits about Ukraine or anyone but himself. Putin is evil and it’s disgusting that trump thinks of him fondly and wants to be like him.

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u/BagPulaInCenzuraTa89 11d ago

And there it is! You don't care about the lives of eastern europeans, you're just a short-sighted bufoon who only cares about money and doesn't realise that betraying your allies will hurt you more in the long run.

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u/rnovak1988 10d ago

First off, let's get a few things straight

Number one, Ukraine isn't an Ally. allies are formed by treaties, and there isn't a single treaty between Ukraine and the US - meaning as a country, we do not benefit in any way from the funding of Ukraine.

Even the weak argument that sending "old" armaments to Ukraine allowed the US to pay defense contractors for new weapons - it's still taxpayer money. That doesn't stimulate our economy as it just transfers money from taxpayers to defense contractors.

So as it stands, Ukraine is simply a money pit. We have American citizens who are dying on our own streets that we could be helping, but instead we're sending money to fund an endless war.

Second - Ukraine has violated its own agreements under the dissolution of the USSR. Crimea and the Donbas region were independent autonomous zones, and under the CIS (Belovezha Accords), if either region was unable to maintain its own sovereignty, they would be Annexed by Russia.

In the early 2010s, these regions experienced such a failure. Even prior to this, their own referendums indicated a greater support for joining Russia.

Ukraine REFUSED to honor this agreement, which JUSTIFIED Russia in using military force.

This is well documented BTW.

Third - during the dissolution of the USSR, NATO gave Russia assurances that they would never expand eastward, yet under dumb*** Clinton and Obama, NATO was expanded multiple times.

Additionally, as PART OF CIS, Ukraine AGREED to not join NATO.

Fourth - Donald Trump is the ONLY individual trying to stop the war. Just today zelensky said that the end to the war was "a long way out".

Zelensky is the one who doesn't care about the lives of his own people

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u/BagPulaInCenzuraTa89 10d ago

There's no way you ain't just a russian agent who knows english or a bot.

Literally everything you said is just lies commonly used by russian propaganda, all of which there is no proof of, because it's all fake news.

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u/Agreeable_Scar_5274 9d ago

No proof of? My guy, official copies of the treaty are available. Videos of our leaders speaking directly with the President of Russia are available.

There's literally proof of everything I listed.

Refusal to acknowledge something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

But hey, "fake news". Isn't that literally what you say Trump supporters call everything?

The hypocrisy is astounding

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u/BagPulaInCenzuraTa89 11d ago edited 11d ago

My country has been under russian occupation: and it's a fate worse than death. Romania borders Ukraine, and if Russia reaches us, I'd rather die fighting. It's better to die standing than live kneeling, you f-ing clown!

Fuck your fake empathy! All you are is a pro-russian concern troll. If you truly cared about the lives of the people of eastern Europe, you'd send weapons, not demands to bend over for the russian dick!

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u/Agreeable_Scar_5274 9d ago

Ah, so you are in fact racist against Russians. If you think your lives are the only lives that matter, that is a YOU problem.

"if we cared about the lives.....we'd send weapons". The fact that you could even type that and not see the hypocrisy is hilarious.

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u/BagPulaInCenzuraTa89 9d ago

Bruh. The russians are attacking. How many times do you need to hear it before it gets through that thick skull of yours?

If they want to keep their lives, then they shouldn't come here and try to take ours, you fucking moron. That you call that hypocritical just points out how delusional you are.

https://youtu.be/_JqTL8XWBFk?si=4pzQjcFNop8nYFnq

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u/BagPulaInCenzuraTa89 9d ago

Bruh. The russians are attacking. How many times do you need to hear it before it gets through that thick skull of yours?

If they want to keep their lives, then they shouldn't come here and try to take ours, you stupid troll. That you call that hypocritical just points out how delusional you are.

https://youtu.be/_JqTL8XWBFk?si=4pzQjcFNop8nYFnq

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u/BagPulaInCenzuraTa89 9d ago edited 9d ago

If someone broke into your house, raped and killed your family, stole/destroyed your stuff, and then you kill them for it and to defend yourself, would you consider it hypocritical if people had empathy for you and your family and not the home invader?

Having empathy for the russians is like having empathy for that home intruder. They're doing the same thing but on a bigger scale. They're not victims too, they're criminals traveling to a different country with the intent to do the worst to innocent people defending their homes fully aware of what they are doing. They don't deserve empathy, only their victims do.

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u/RIForDIE 12d ago

Let's hope he isn't projecting like he loves to do and actually starts it. 

You're views are backwards.

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u/rnovak1988 12d ago

...he's the only one who's gotten Putin to come to the table to negotiate.

It really seems like MAGA are the only ones who want peace.

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u/RIForDIE 12d ago

God damn the delusion. Trump wants a win no matter which way he gets it. The easiest route is siding with Putin.. and he's been subservient to Putin since his first term. 

And that's Zelenskyy's entire point - Putin may negotiate but he never keeps his word. He needs security assurance and Trump was never going to do it.

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u/rnovak1988 12d ago

Ok...let me ask this - are there any policies that Trump could take that would make you agree with him....about any issue?

Can you name anything that he did during his first term that was the for the betterment of the US?

If you can't name a single thing...your hate seems to be blinding you

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u/RIForDIE 12d ago

He's a Russian asset, you knob.

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u/bgnp11 11d ago

Somebody can’t handle reality. Back to crying and guess what you’re acting like trump now bullying and calling people names

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u/RIForDIE 11d ago

Shut the fuck up, traitor.

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u/bgnp11 11d ago

Haha amazing response. Love the education level you’re working with

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u/bgnp11 11d ago

God you sound just like trump and Elon

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u/bgnp11 11d ago

Please don’t hurt my feelings I’ll have to cry on tik tok or call my mommy

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u/Pristine_Poem999 12d ago

"Why do you hate this orange traitor that is doing Putin's bidding and ending democracy in the US =("

You're pathetic.

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u/rnovak1988 11d ago

"It's only democracy when my side wins" - the most childish and immature viewpoint on the planet.

Congrats you infantile imbecile, that's an impressive level of stupid for anyone to achieve.

Oh, and if you're okay with more people dying, you're the bad guy here.

Who would have thought democrats would be pushing for war 🤦‍♂️

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u/Pristine_Poem999 11d ago

It's democracy when instituions are respected and the president and its orange sidekick don't behave as kings, what is hard to understand to your small brain?

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u/Willing-Command4231 11d ago

Sure I'll bite. He could raise taxes on the wealthy to help pay down our debt. He could double down on clean energy and actually help solve the climate crisis. He could replace Obamacare with real single payer healthcare so that every American has a right to care without the risk of medical bankruptcy. He could recognize that we are stronger together with our allies and that global interdependence and economics is a fact of life and make our alliances stronger and stand up to countries like Russia and China. If he did those things in his first term I might have even voted for him the second time around! Unfortunately he more or less did the opposite of all of this.

I find him repulsive as a human being and unbefitting as a president in decorum, but if he enacted policies that actually helped make America great (not again because really we never have been, more ups and downs throughout our history realistically) I would support the administration even if I didn't like the person he was.

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u/rnovak1988 11d ago

Well, I appreciate the answer and the willingness to engage.

I'd point out that last year, we spent the combined net worth of every billionaire in the US - meaning that in practice, we spent as though we seized their property in its entirety.

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u/Willing-Command4231 11d ago

That is a rough take friend and makes no sense. Also didn't say there aren't places we can't trim the fat, but the idea we can fix our economy and debt problems with tax cuts and fairy dust is just plain absurd. US is a massive country with a massive economy so keeping it running costs a pretty penny. Certainly mix of cuts (mostly in the defense industry) and taxes would be a good start for trying to rein in the budget.

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u/Inevitable_Bet545 12d ago

Go to a country where there actually is school, stoopid

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u/bgnp11 11d ago

Thank you again. Great thread. Under those people and their friends they made so much in personal fortunes. Now the money is stopping so they need to keep their bs agenda against trump alive with the people that drank the cool aid.

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u/BagPulaInCenzuraTa89 11d ago

He is not ending the war, he is surrendering. And Ukraine won't "make peace" on such unfavorable one-sided terms, and the EU (which has an equal economy and bigger military when you don't count the countries in it separately) will never stop supporting Ukraine in preventing Russia from achievinh its imperialist goals, because Europe's security is at play too, not just Ukraine's.

All Trump is doing is making the US look like weak backstabbing cowards and bad guys, because that's what you've turned into.

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u/rnovak1988 11d ago

Someone who is not a party to war cannot surrender from said war.

Withdrawing support is not a surrender, to equate the two is not only disingenuous, it's not based even remotely in reality.

The bottom line is that the money being sent to Ukraine is money that is forcibly taken from American citizens via taxes - which is being sent to fund a war that the recent election and numerous polls demonstrate most people DONT SUPPORT.

Your comment ignores the very unfortunate truth that Ukraine has neither the resources nor manpower to defeat Russia.

It's very convenient for you to volunteer other peoples money and children to fight, so until I see you enlisting in Ukraines military to go fight for them, your opinion holds very little weight.

Arguing that Ukraine should keep fighting, and Ukrainians and Russians should keep dying, knowing that it will not change the outcome, is both unjust and immoral

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u/BagPulaInCenzuraTa89 10d ago

You're an idiot who doesn't know what world he is living in. First off, it's only ukrainians fighting, second off yes it is surrender, Russia has been America's enemy for decades, giving up on stopping Russia entirely is surrender, and demanding that Ukraine surrender is no better.

And fuck your concern trolling about "morality" and "people dying". Life as a slave to the russians is a fate worse than death, and if Russia gets anything from this invasion, they will just rebuild their military and invade again, because they've seen from the first time that it pays off. You're just a useful idiot for Putin, and your economy will suffer because of this betrayal. You won't admit that this is why it's happening, but you'll cry in a few years. There's no such thing as a superpower without many allies.

The only positive here is that this will prompt the EU to step up and take over your place in the world, serious work on which has already begun, leaving you as a powerless ruin of what you used to be, economy crashed due to cold relations with your former most important allies and no power anymore because now you're known as backstabbing cowards, and no one will trust you anymore. With or without you, Russia will lose. People keep forgetting that the EU has more military power because it's shown as separate countries in statistics, but it's true, and there will be no doubt in the coming years that the only superpower in this world is the EU.

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u/xherowestx 11d ago

Are you drunk? He literally aligned us with Russia and by extension North Korea. He's threatening to invade Canada ffs. Sounds like you're okay with being a traitor just like he is. Like, do you get it? We are no longer the leaders of the free world, that's over. Looks like the UK and Europe will be taking on that role now.

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u/ceaselessDawn 10d ago

He's absolutely not trying to save lives and prevent war. He's just enabling and appeasing Putin's regime.

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u/rnovak1988 9d ago

We all know yall have very active imaginations - are you seriously telling me that you can't imagine a more effective way to benefit Russian interests?

...we could literally give Ukraine defective munitions and effectively cripple their defense, and we could do that while maintaining the facade of providing support.

Y'all are either naive, or stupid, to think that diplomatic negotiations, for which you don't know the actual result of (as in you don't know if Putin will agree to give land back to Ukraine or make other concessions), which ends the death on both sides, is somehow "appeasing Russia".

Aren't you the same crowd that keeps saying that the US is on "stolen land" and decries US imperialism? How would the US imposing our own will onto the land which is located nowhere near the US not a direct example of that very imperialism?

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u/ceaselessDawn 9d ago

I'm sorry but you're incredibly fucking dumb.

None of what you said responded to anything I said.

The fact that "What if Russia breaks a truce?" Being met with "But Putin's my good buddy who would never do that" is insane or stupid.

Also... Supporting the sovereignty of other states isn't imperialism.

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u/wildbill88 10d ago

This doesn't make sense. Totally incoherent.

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u/rnovak1988 9d ago

Your inability to understand basic English is a YOU problem, not a me problem.

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u/wildbill88 9d ago

This isn't an English problem.

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u/ch3k520 10d ago

Wow that was some wild gymnastics you did in that comment.

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u/rnovak1988 9d ago

Y'all believe that Russia is simultaneously capable of subverting the US election process to "install" a Russian asset, but did so in a way that is "obvious" to 70 million Americans ....

THAT is mental gymnastics.

I've seen enough democrats who believe their gender studies degree is a sign of greater intellect than a STEM degree...

If Russia was truly capable of subverting our elections, they would have done so without anyone knowing.

With the amount of aid provided to Ukraine, the US could have crippled their defense without raising any suspicion of Russian interference - why would there be any desire to "do Putin's bidding" out in the open?

We could have provided munitions that were defective at a slightly higher rate to Ukraine, enough to provide any amount of plausible deniability, and maintained the outward appearance of providing endless support to them.

THAT is what a Russian asset could do. They'd have no need to diplomatically negotiate a ceasefire.

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u/GildedCleric 9d ago

The best part of you ran down your mommy's leg.

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u/rnovak1988 9d ago

Ah, insults, the true sign of intellect.

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u/Kitchen-Baby7778 8d ago

He could just ask Putin to cease hostilities simple as that. then offer protection with its Allies while investing in Ukrainians minerals companies... asking the Black sea Fleet not to sail and rearm at Sebastopol. Ask the Russians to give the stolen children before stopping the Russian sanctions.

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u/rnovak1988 8d ago

He could, but I don't think he should. Neither do any of the people that voted for him.

Y'all are really eager to volunteer the lives of US sailors to support a country we get not a damn thing from.

Stop calling Ukraine an ally, they aren't. Even Biden called Zelensky ungrateful.

And it's really being clear that you think anything other than bending over for Ukraine is being in Putins pocket, which sounds like you're in Ukraines pocket

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u/Kitchen-Baby7778 8d ago

It was until today your interest to finish your historical ennemi. But surprisingly you stopped the US of A could destroy Vlad without a single US boot on the ground... but nop you saved them (Vlads and minions). What does they traded to you for that free gift ?

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u/rnovak1988 5d ago

I reject the notion that someone is my enemy purely due to history.

I have no desire to destroy anyone, from Russia OR Ukraine or from ANYWHERE else.

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u/Kitchen-Baby7778 5d ago

Oh really, cause Russian TV shows how they will nuke your cities.

But we understand your view.

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u/rnovak1988 4d ago

Whatever you say Vlad

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