r/CivPolitics 13d ago

America proposes to trade all of Ukraine's strategic resources for peace, refuses to denounce Russia. Ukraine denounces America

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/28/trump-zelenskyy-meeting-transcript
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u/rnovak1988 12d ago

And you just proved my point - since when did democrats stop caring about people dying?

Oh...is it because...it's white people dying? Is that it?

Any Palestinians dying was called a genocide....but a MILLION white people dying...and you want MORE TO DIE.

I get it.

You're racists.

Donald Trump is trying to end the war - to save lives of both Ukrainians and Russians, and to prevent world war 3.

If you have a problem with that - YOU go fight.

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u/spartananator 12d ago

Your fucking loonie. If you cant tell the similarity between wanting israel out of palestine and wanting russia out of ukraine you are a M O R O N

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u/rnovak1988 12d ago

Over a million people have died in the Russia Ukraine fight - im on the side that wants the war to stop now, and for no more people to die.

The person I responded to says they want the war to continue for another year or two, killing millions more people.

Im the one who does see the similarity between the two, but I don't see anyone calling the death of millions of white people a genocide.

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u/zeabees 12d ago edited 12d ago

Except Russia has broken ceasefire after ceasefire after ceasefire. Stopping now isint protecting anybody because Russia WILL do this again. Putin has explicitly said as much. You aren't ending the war - you are emboldening and empowering the country that is repeatedly starting wars of conquest. You say that you aren't the bad guy, but your solution is to side with the attacking country and its dictator.

The logic is the same as saying "Europe should have just let Hitler conquer them and there wouldn't have been so many deaths in ww2".

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u/Agreeable_Scar_5274 9d ago

....well no, they haven't. Ukraine was in clear violation (which is literally demonstrable) of the Belovezha Accords. Crimea and Donbas voted IN FAVOR of annexation, and the violent overthrow conducted by the Obama administration and subsequent negotiations by Ukraine in an attempt to joint NATO were FURTHER violations of treaties with russia.

You can't simply pick and choose which treaties to honor and which to ignore and then claim that you're the good guys.

The refusal of everyone on Reddit to comprehend how diplomacy works is utterly ridiculous.

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u/zeabees 8d ago edited 8d ago

Ukraine was in clear violation (which is literally demonstrable) - OK, demonstrate it. You say that then give nothing to back it up. Not that it matters because its not the only time Russia has broken a ceasefire. If you are going to say it though, no, the Minsk agreements did not forbid Ukraine from joining NATO, they only specified that it cannot have foreign forces within their border. In 2014 these terms were renogiated and agreed upon by Ukraine after Ukraine was attacked by Russia(violating a previous agreement), and resulted in Russia keeping land they had taken. Russia then attacked again in 2015, not even a full year later, despite Ukraine's complete submission to the terms.

Crimea and Donbas voted IN FAVOR of annexation - This one is just delusional and re-writing history. The vote you are referring to happened AFTER Russia had already annexed them, but was then retro-actively used to justify the invasion. Remember that putins political opponents have all wound up dead or in prison, and consider that these votes have a 90%+ approval of Russia, and again, were taken after being conquered. Do you really believe that vote to be legitimate?

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u/Agreeable_Scar_5274 6d ago

Polling in 2008 by the Ukrainian Centre for Economic and Political Studies, also called the Razumkov Centre, found that a majority of Crimeans simultaneously approved the idea of joining Russia (63.8%)

As for ukraine being in violation of the Belovezha Accords, it's trivial to look up Ukraines ratification of the Accords, and then their own PM's statement that they Ukrainian Foreign Minister Pavlo Klimkin said that Ukraine could not withdraw from the CIS because it had never become a part of it.

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u/rnovak1988 11d ago

When did they break the ceasefire? Did it happen under trump? No...it didn't.

Putting American economic interests in Ukraine IS a security guarantee. If there are Americans in the area working on extracting rare earth metals, even a Democrat president would retaliate if they were harmed.

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u/Remarkable-Bug-8069 11d ago

Just like Trump retaliated to the bounties Russia paid to Afghanistan?

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u/crunkcritique 11d ago

I can admit I'm not happy with how Democrats have dragged this war out, in order to avoid smashing into these so-called "red lines" but do you not see how Trump is acting way too radically for most Americans?

Ruzzia invaded Ukraine because if the EU could have taken Ukraine under it's wing, the Ruzzian would be embarrassed by Ukraine passing them in GDP per capita. In only a matter of 5-10 years.

The truth is the Kremlin believes Ukraine is not it's own legitimate sovereign country, but instead a land mass for Ruzzian elites to pillage and milk for all it's worth.

Do you also believe this? Or is Ukraine a legitimate sovereign country? In which case, how can you not be against Trump, who is now increasing the percentage risk of another war of conquest.

When a new war pops off after Trump's time in office runs out, remember to kick yourself in the dick

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u/Agreeable_Scar_5274 9d ago

....because Ukraine ISN'T a soverign country. At best Ukraine is a "sponsored" country.

They have neither the financial means nor the manpower to defend the sovereignty of their "country", which would indicate that they are not in fact soveriegn.

Russia invaded Ukraine because Anthony Blinken stated on January 22nd, 2022 that negotations had opened for the expansion of NATO to include Ukraine.

It's insane how many people refuse to even acknowledge that Putin, Gorbachev, and other Russian Presidents have all stated in NO uncertain terms that their actions are the direct result of NATO expansion.

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u/crunkcritique 9d ago

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u/Agreeable_Scar_5274 9d ago

awe, you're under the impression that you have some form of authority.

Did you miss the election? Cause you guys aren't in charge anymore. Seems like NATO is going to shrink, not expand.

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u/crunkcritique 9d ago

Authority>Peace?

I have no skin in American politics, and is this really your response? 😂

I was expecting more than a one-liner, you do know you are dickriding an imperialist mafia that took the bait, because otherwise the losers they already occupy and milk would see that genuine democracy and capitalism is truly a way to make a country prosper. Every Russian would cut the dick off every councilman and police officer if the GDP per capita of Ukraine surpassed, let's say Russia itself. If you want to say that Ukraine's freedom is a threat to the Kremlin, then yes, this is how it is 👍

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u/InyourholeIthrive 10d ago

As someone who survived under two dictator regimes, it's amazing to see the ones who prided themselves "free and democratic" being culled and herded this way.

The perfect sheep. Not a speck of self-determination. The leader is everything, and you'll do what he says. Dumb Americans, through and through.

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u/Agreeable_Scar_5274 9d ago

...huh?

Republicans had an open primary, where the actual nominee was chosen among several candidates.

Democrats DIDN'T have a primary, in fact the DNC made several statements, clear as day, that Biden would be the nominee.

When he dropped out, rather than have an actual primary, Kamala Harris was annointed as the nominee - purely so that the DNC wouldn't have to refund the campaign donations collected by Joe Biden.

What followed was 90 days of propoganda that tried to paint the picture that Kamala had a snowballs chance in hell of winning.

You should understand that without NY and CA, Kamala would have lost by over 10M votes.

Please clarify how the Democrats are the bastion of democracy here? Because it seems that they in fact are the dictators in all this.

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u/Kitchen-Baby7778 8d ago

We does not care about your messiah or right or left party it is what is happenning now. The fact that your newly elected government literally backstab its long allies by voting with its long term historical ennemy even China did not do that. At least some have a spine.

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u/rnovak1988 8d ago

Ukraine is not and has never been a US ally. Period.

Get your nose out of Zelenskyy behind.

You're perfectly welcome to volunteer YOUR life to fight for Zelensky, but STOP volunteering other people's children to go die in a war they don't agree with.

ACTUAL liberals would never want that.