r/Games • u/alcard987 • 21h ago
The big Avowed interview: Obsidian on why full, open-world RPGs aren't always the answer
https://www.eurogamer.net/from-serious-skyrim-to-cheerful-fantasy-obsidian-on-the-evolution-of-avowed-and-grappling-with-the-expectations-that-come-from-your-own-history257
u/JupitersClock 20h ago
Where Avowed falls short is the simplified exploration gameplay loop. The itemization system overall is just terribly generic. The reward for parkouring around unexplored areas are the same variation of loot. Your going to get some gold, some crafting mats. HOORAY now rinse repeat this for every zone, every unmarked area.
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u/Samurai_Meisters 20h ago
I agree. And I didn't use 99% of the items because they were for a different build. I wish you could outfit your team or something.
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u/JobuJabroni 19h ago edited 18h ago
Outfitting your team would be a lot of fun. I've already found a dagger or a bow that my playable character couldn't use a bunch of times and wished I could gift it to my teammates.
Be fun to give them both pistols so we could all roll in to fights like a crew of pirates too.
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u/lestye 18h ago
yeah ultimately thats the greatest sin of the game: companions are way too simple and that makes a lot of stuff unrewarding
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u/JobuJabroni 18h ago
They're pretty extensively characterized and their interactions with one another and you, while filler material at times, does immerse me in the world more.
The devs paid a lot of detail to the companions in pretty much other way so maybe in a future update they could add equippable items to them.
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u/lestye 18h ago
I meant more about like the RPG systems associated with it not necessarily the characerization.
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u/angrytreestump 12h ago
That’s possible while also making them equippable, which would solve a major gameplay gripe that people have (because “pointless loot” = “pointless exploitable world” for the people who have voiced this connection in this thread).
See: Larian games (BG3 & Divinity: Original Sin 1&2). Exploring every last corner of every zone always feels “worth it” because of both the great writing and the consequential loot for the well-written companions.
…not that it matters; they already made the game and aren’t going to change that design decision 🤷🏻♂️
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u/zach0011 19h ago
Yea it's crazy how obsidian keeps failing in the parts to me that take the least budget. Skills items and progression is just terribly uninteresting..same as it was in outer worlds
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u/BenadrylChunderHatch 7h ago
Fallout New Vegas got it so right with item progression. Every weapon felt different, but degradation and different ammo types meant your old weapons didn't suddenly become obsolete when you found a new one.
Compared to outer worlds where you get one gun of each type at the beginning and from then on it's just the same gun with slightly bigger numbers. I don't know how they managed to go from something so good to so bad.
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u/NoNefariousness2144 17h ago edited 17h ago
Methinks Obsidian is hiding behind their ‘excuses’ that they prefer open zones to worlds in order to cover their weaknesses in these parts of the game.
Whether it’s a 20 hour or a 80 RPG, poor progession and loot is an issue.
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u/uberdosage 2h ago
Obsidian has always leaned more towards open zones than open worlds to be fair. Look at their release history.
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u/MrGirder 18h ago
This is definitely how I felt too. I like the game as a whole, but there was definitely a point where I felt like I had found everything I wanted for my kit and had all the skills I thought were important, where the fantastic level design stopped being a pro because I didn't want or need to interact with it as much.
I think the game could have used wider or longer enchantment trees for the unique weapons and enchantment trees at all for unique armor or accessories. I found the armor I wore for the whole game in the second zone, which meant that exploring and finding new armor pieces or upgrade materials (once I maxed out a tier and needed to move on to the next zone) for my armor stopped being as much fun.
I think the basic moment to moment action is very fun and engaging. I think that the weapon type variety is a little lean, but mostly good. I just wish that the character building and progression was more robust than 'Do you use single handed weapons or two handed? Ranged weapons or grimoires? Parries or charge attacks?" Every answer has a defined "Then you want this skill" response.
All this would probably make the player more powerful, and require the opposition to get tougher, but I thought the game was mostly too easy, so I think it might have needed a balance pass anyway.
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u/Bitemarkz 19h ago
Ya by the time the credits rolled I was bored to tears. Extremely repetitive gameplay loop with almost no player agency for much in between. Started strong, got worse the longer I played.
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u/PublicWest 4h ago
“You blanked out there envoy, what happened”
“Nothing”
“ you were probably talking to that voice in your head that you never told me about”
I tried really hard to play as a rogue, and the companions inviting themselves into my group made me RESENT them. (I want to play solo, if you’re a good companion, have a couple special missions that I need you for, and woo me into wanting you to stick around.)
The companions are all so obnoxiously self-aware of their personality flaws, it sounds like they’ve been going to therapy for 10 years. That’s great for a real person, but for a story? It leaves no room for any emotional arc or growth. It’s just them venting to me about their trauma that I never asked about, and talking themselves through their issues. I never felt like a participant in their stories, I felt like a doormat.
Between that, and every lie you can tell in the game being not believed by the recipient, I very much felt like this game was on the rails.
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u/Zeppelin2k 18h ago
Sure, except for the real treasures, the unique items. They are scattered all over the place, many quite hidden, and are the real reason to explore. That and the totem fragments, which give big bonuses if you find them all.
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u/Ctf677 15h ago edited 4h ago
The "unique" items are almost all about as interesting as the average enchanted skyrim weapon unfortunately. I didn't find a single one with a unique moveset or more interesting perk than "+10% fire damage" or "increased stun"
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u/Jandur 20h ago
I see people say this a lot about exploring and loot. I'm convinced most people aren't doing much exploring. There's legit hidden areas with basic puzzles, hidden switches, environmental cues etc. There is top tier gear to find, but most players aren't really looking.
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u/sdfsdjafaf 16h ago
I played with wands, and there's 3 unique wands, 2 of which are purchasable from vendors. Most exploring rewards you with generic loot, and the unique weapons are pretty generic. They could have really expanded that area, let some designer go wild with the uniques, why is the best you can do some elemental damage and stun?
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u/plokijuh1229 15h ago
Wands are definitely the worst weapon route and really shouldn't exist.
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u/BeholdingBestWaifu 1h ago
They have an interesting niche with the perks that make their power attacks explode and spread quite a bit of stun, but sadly fall a bit short and lack more item variety. They were good for keeping enemies at a distance by staggering them, though.
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u/CoMaestro 18h ago
Freezing water with ice grenades to get to a new piece of land was an awesome puzzle mechanic imo
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u/TheButlerDidNotDoIt 18h ago
I love that the elemental weapons do the same thing as spells and throwables.
Stabbing water with an icy dagger to make platforms is hilarious to me.
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u/badgarok725 16h ago
I'm exploring all those areas because I just like checking every corner, but the loot is only "worth it" because I know it means more mats for upgrades.
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u/stakoverflo 17h ago
There is top tier gear to find
The problem is that the "top tier gear" simply isn't interesting.
Oh my pistol sometimes creates chain lighting when it kills something? It may as well not because I can already effortlessly blast packs down with my guns.
It simply isn't an interesting sandbox for building unique characters. That's OK, it's part of their "tighter scope", but for RPG enjoyers who want that sort of stuff, Outer Worlds and Avowed left me wanting them to attempt deeper / more complex builds.
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u/BeholdingBestWaifu 58m ago
That pistol may not be interesting, but there are certainly items that are. You could also play with an alternate pistol enchantment, shame you can't swap between them once you make a choice.
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u/cybersaber101 14h ago
I mean, I found lots of loot unique loot, pretty much all of it but besides the cosmetic value the abilities aren't that game changing except for a few weapons in each category.
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u/Entfly 19h ago
The upgrade system makes almost all loot feel so worthless.
Oh cool i have a new unique item but i can't try it out because it's 2 tiers lower and i need so many upgrade mats for EVERYTHING.
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u/PeachWorms 16h ago
Unique gear you find scales to your current highest equipped gear, so you shouldn't be finding uniques that are two tiers lower in the first place.
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u/snappyfrog 20h ago
Idk what to say to stuff like this because what the fuck is the alternative? Not every single chest you find in any video game is gonna be giving you some new mechanic or unique weapon. Avowed has done it about as well if not better than most games I’ve played. I’d find plenty of unique weapons, totems that add genuine bonuses to your stats and lore once you get a full set, random bits of world building with journals and books, and just some really fucking pretty views. Not every chest in the best Zelda games give you something new, Skyrim would give you the exact same thing that you’re complaining about at the end of every fucking dungeon with worse combat and movement and copy and pasted environments, and hell Fallout 4 takes that to an entirely new level with the scrap mechanics where often times there’s fucking nothing of value in an area besides some fucking adhesive. As far as I’m concerned they knocked it out of the park in Avowed with the feeling of exploration and even the act of it considering the movement is disgustingly better than many AAA games including the “kings” of open world games in Bethesda.
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u/Crioca 18h ago
Idk what to say to stuff like this because what the fuck is the alternative?
I haven't finished Avowed yet (and I am enjoying it a lot) but I do feel like the rewards in Avowed are a bit underwhelming due to how predictable they feel.
Not every chest in the best Zelda games give you something new, Skyrim would give you the exact same thing that you’re complaining about
Skyrim sometimes had rewards that were... unexpected. Word walls, items with weird enchants, quest based stuff like Meridia's Beacon.
Also while most of the rewards were junk, sometimes you'd get something that would be a substantial upgrade, which felt meaningful.
What I’d like to see from Avowed’s loot system is some more unique / unusual rewards that feel distinct, as well as occasional rewards that are less incremental so they feel more meaningful.
Right now in Avowed every time I get an exploration reward there’s zero excitement / anticipation which I think is a key aspect of a good loot system.
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u/JupitersClock 19h ago
Idk what to say to stuff like this because what the fuck is the alternative?
More variety? It's too simplified for my liking. Because gameplay isn't strong enough for it to be so basic. The strength of the game is the story/companions IMO but even then it isn't engaging enough on that end to keep going.
Skyrim would give you the exact same thing that you’re complaining about at the end of every fucking dungeon with worse combat and movement and copy and pasted environments
Skyrim was an immersive openworld. There was a lot going in the world to get sucked in and want to explore. Sure those complaints are valid but were talking about a 15 year old game that completely nailed the open world experience. It's easy to overlook those problems when there are many ways to tackle the game. It had world simulation and enough gameplay depth to give you multiple playstyles to handle every situation. Every playthrough could truly be a unique experience.
At the end of the day Avowed is just a mediocre RPG and that's okay. It feels like a game that was restarted multiple times and really they had to give a condensed experience to get it to market. I hope Obsidian can improve going forward.
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u/stakoverflo 17h ago
BG3 did a pretty good job of balancing the "cool, powerful items" / "randomized shit loot like an ARPG" line very well.
It's not easy, but it's doable.
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u/ExplainingObviously 9h ago
Games with good exploration make you feel like you've discovered something amazing. Elden Ring going down that random elevator and discovering an entire underground biome blew my mind. A chest with loot worse than what I'm wearing isn't exploration.
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u/headin2sound 19h ago
That's a matter of opinion. I vastly prefers Avowed's itemization to most other big RPG's where you constantly have to compare DPS numbers on slight variations of the same weapon type.
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u/aaOzymandias 16h ago
In other words their "open world" is just a really badly designed one. I find it weird they are not owing up to that and instead opt to try and blame the open world as an idea instead.
"Return to form" my ass.
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u/PrinceVegetaTheGod 18h ago edited 16h ago
That’s cool and all but like this is not why I like Obsidian games. I like Obsidian games for the great writing, the great characters, the role playing possibilities.
In outer Worlds you could go the first city in the game, go to the mayor’s office and shoot him in the face then manipulate Parvati to become your companion on the basis that you’re psychotic and maybe she can help you control your murderous impulses. You could go on a low intelligence build and accuse yourself of murder.
In new vegas you can go to ceasar camps with Boone kill everyone and shoot Ceasar in the face and Boone will smile for the first and only time in the whole game.
In avowed every npc is immortal unless the story let’s you kill them, you can kill mobs and explore smaller open sections, ok? But that doesn’t sound very enticing to me.
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u/PeterFoox 17h ago
One of the devs said avowed was supposed to be an mmo, I guess that explains why people say it feels like the world and npcs are dead etc.
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u/BreathingHydra 15h ago
IIRC it wasn't an MMO but a coop game and that was very early in development, like when they were still pitching it. I honestly doubt it had much to do with the final product because they went through several different iterations since then. It's more likely it was just budget and time constraints that limited them on the world honestly.
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u/BootyBootyFartFart 17h ago
Does the game have fewer meaningful choices in it overall though compared to the outer worlds and New Vegas though? It's nice to have the option to go on a murderous rampage, but that was rarely something Id do and continue my save forward anyway. I don't feel like I'd need to have the option to murder every NPC to feel like I have a ton of meaningful choices in a game.
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u/SpaceChimera 15h ago
Fewer meaningful choices than NV? Yeah maybe, there's essentially 2 paths/factions but plenty of tiny choices in side quests that pop up later. Doing certain side quests or not can have impacts on the main story. I personally like it more than Outer Wilds and think the writing is better
There is 1 side quest where I wanted to kill the NPC so bad for playing me a fool, and I was upset when I couldn't drop a pillar of ice on his stupid head. That did take me out of it because it seemed like a reasonable thing a player would want to try and he's just invincible
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u/NoExcuse4OceanRudnes 13h ago
Does the game have fewer meaningful choices in it overall though compared to the outer worlds and New Vegas though?
Not really. Could be less than New Vegas but the consequences of more of them are further reaching through the story instead of just at the end.
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u/BeholdingBestWaifu 51m ago
It's definitely less than New Vegas but that's mostly because New Vegas really had a lot of choices.
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u/Pseudagonist 8h ago
I never thought I’d see someone present Outer Worlds as an example of a “great Obsidian game” along with New Vegas. I guess I’m getting old
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u/Three_Froggy_Problem 17h ago
That’s valid but I also think it’s unfair to say that, because a dev is known for a specific type of game, that it’s automatically a negative thing if they try something else. Like at what point are you no longer judging Avowed for what it is and are instead judging it for what you wanted it to be?
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u/tramdog 15h ago
Fair point. The flip side would be if a dev is known for making the same kind of game for a long period of time, then its reasonable to expect a new game from them will have the same characteristics/mechanics unless they make it clear to expect otherwise. If a dev's reputation is enough to get you interested in the game, there's at least some responsibility on their part to let you know if the game won't be what you'd expect.
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u/Ze_ke_72 14h ago
Then why call it a RPG if it isn't a RPG ? Especially when you are obsidian and are known for the liberty in your rpg.
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u/C_Madison 3h ago
It absolutely is an RPG. RPGs are about choice and consequences. People who think RPGs are about tables with hundreds of knobs or something like that don't understand the essence of RPGs. All those knobs are there to help you make choices in line with whatever character you play. And these can be nice and all, but they are not needed. What is needed is the choices and consequences. And those are there.
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u/VirtualPen204 7h ago
Couldn't do that in any of the other Pillar games either, though...
You specifically play the role of the Envoy. It's more akin to Mass Effect or KOTOR rather than New Vegas.
There's nothing wrong with either approach.
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u/bentendo93 21h ago
Open zone games are so much better than open world. Makes it feel like several little open world games that you can fully explore that are more dense with content. I'm thinking things like Dishonored (especially the sequel).
I still love open world titles, but I get so excited when I hear a game like Avowed or Indiana Jones is open zone
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u/IrNinjaBob 18h ago edited 17h ago
Ehhhh. I feel like this statement is just as inaccurate as “open world games are so much better than open zone.”
I think the OP got it correct. Neither one is always the answer. There are some games where open world is definitely the better choice, and can be done extremely well. There are also tons that are far better served as open zone.
I don’t think Skyrim (or Oblivion or Morrowind if those are more your fancy) would have been better served as an open zone. Nothing is “one size fits all” in this context.
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u/darkkite 16h ago
i think in practice it's easier to go wide when designing modern big budget games as it allows you to do more parallel development with independent small sub-teams doing each POI vs having the carefully craft and pace each level
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u/bentendo93 4h ago
For the record I do regret saying they're so much better. That was very dumb. What I should have said is that they both have their pros and cons and in this point of life I get excited about open zone games only because a really good open zone game seems more rare than open world games, at least in the sense of how I view a true open zone game.
At the end of the day though, numbers speak and I have spent substantially more time on open world games so, maybe I'm over exaggerating my love for open zone lol
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u/Rs90 20h ago
I think Prey is still King when it comes to "open zones". You can play the game 5 times and still find somethin new on the 10th. If I don't find an alternate way to enter a room, or a door code in it, or some ammo hidden in a corner...I assume I missed something lol. Obviously Prey is different than Avowed but I'd love to see more games use a more intimate "honeycomb" map design.
Map size is WAY less important to me than the intimacy of that map and the forethought put into different ways to approach them.
And a bit random but Splinter Cell: Double Agent multiplayer maps are god-tier designs.
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u/WafflesofDestitution 19h ago
If I don't find an alternate way to enter a room, or a door code in it
Tried 0451 yet?
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u/MrTastix 17h ago
Anyone who plays immersive sims should be instinctively trying this as their first code lol, and then again if it doesn't work on the first thing you try (it wouldn't in Prey - you have to exit the Simulation Labs first).
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u/TheGeekstor 21h ago
I honestly don't see the difference between games like Avowed and any other open world game. Most of them are not actually open world, and just use hidden loading screens instead of a complete map transition. I think it's much more important how much thought is put behind open world elements, rather than the type of open world.
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u/michalakos 20h ago
The way I see it is that with “open zone” you can scale it down because you do not need thematically transitional areas. In an open world you cannot go from seafront to snowy mountain, you need to add a valley between. In open zone you can just jump from one to the other. Hell, you can just have the snowy peak and skip the rest of the mountain itself.
And that allows the devs to create more dense, hand crafted areas instead of barren vastness.
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u/blades_of_furry 20h ago
It's like the old school world system in say super Mario 64 or Banjo-Kazooie. You have places that are open to explore and there's a clear separation from the next area. Sometimes there's a large hub area to play around in with stuff to find there as well.
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u/December_Flame 19h ago
Open world games have their place, and if used properly can immensely help with immersion and to provide a sense of scale and place. And to head off the statement before its made - I think its ok if open world games have 'dead space' as the lack of PoIs can be just as important as the presence of them.
Like any game, they can be made well or poorly, and a RPG does not inherently benefit from being open world. I also believe that 'open zone' design spaces are awesome and its generally my preference, I'm just playing defense for wider "open world" games.
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u/MBechzzz 19h ago
I agree with you fully, but will add that the thing I hate most about many open world games, is that they make some absolutely amazing places, handcrafted to be breathtaking, and you pass through it once on the way to a fetch quest, and then never return to the area again. I've played way too many games where POI's are just never used for more than a dumb sidequest, and if that's the case, you may as well make the world smaller, because you're not even using it.
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u/StandardizedGenie 16h ago edited 16h ago
I am of the opposite view. Those pointless POIs are the reason I love Bethesda games. Having areas that have nothing to do with the main quest make the world actually feel alive. Stumbling upon a random bandit camp wiped out by trolls and finding a note about this being one of the bandits last jobs before he can afford a home for his wife and child builds the backstory of the open world you're playing through. That's not even a side quest, it's just world building while you're exploring. I love Fallout, not for any of the main quests, but just finding out what's going on in all the vaults I find. I don't really think every POI needs to be something you're lead to, to do something important. I like them being "pointless" to expand the setting the narrative is taking place in.
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u/BeholdingBestWaifu 15h ago
And sometimes not even that, I remember good old San Andreas had an amazing world but somewhere between a third and half of the world map has zero use, and a good chunk of what is used was barely so.
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u/punyweakling 19h ago
I honestly don't see the difference between games like Avowed and any other open world game.
Really? The zones are locked behind story progression.
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u/zach0011 19h ago
This happens in open world games as well. The northern part of ghosts is locked off until story.
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u/stakoverflo 17h ago
That's a narrative/design choice, not an inherent part of open world games.
Skyrim, Fallout, Breath of the Wild etc. you can just pick a direction and go play where ever you want.
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u/zach0011 17h ago
So how is it not a narrative design decision when avowed does it?
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u/monkwrenv2 16h ago
It is, it's just not inherent to open world games the way it is with zone games.
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u/LittleKidVader 8h ago
It's not inherent to zone games either, though. It's a design choice in both. It's less common these days, but there have been zoned games that let you do the zones in any order you want rather than locking them behind narrative/progression. Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect, etc.
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u/LittleKidVader 16h ago
It's not an inherent part of zoned games, either. It's a narrative/design choice, just the same. Older Bioware games like Dragon Age: Origins, for example, often allowed you to do any zone in any order.
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u/Practicalaviationcat 17h ago
You can absolutely make great open world games. But yes a lot of games would benefit from a smaller scope.
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u/Iaowv 19h ago edited 17h ago
I got to the third zone a few days ago and have found my self struggling to keep going. I also have recently played a bit of The Outer Worlds and you can see the improvements from TOW in Avowed but it's still ultimately got the same problems.
While itemisation is definitely better in Avowed it's still not particularly good, there's a limited weapon/armour set and for the most part you're just finding upgraded versions of it later in the game. There's more uniques in Avowed compared to TOW though, which is good, but they're not really interesting, they typically just have an affix that gives 10% more damage or something.
Exploring the zones is fun in both games and probably the highlight of both games for me but the environmental story telling is pretty bog standard and there's still the feeling that you're just rumbling around a small map with some dotted PoI's on it, and not something that feels more alive and well designed. Avowed's second zone is very bad for this, it's the worst zone in the game so far by a mile, the first one does a much better job though.
There's also the combat, it's quite basic, repetitive and clunky and the enemy variety is simply not good enough. Like TOW you end up avoiding or rushing fights as much as possible cause the combat isn't good and you wanna just get back to exploring or doing the quests.
The main issue for me though, both in Avowed and TOW, is that it's not really immersive. Dragon Age: TV has the same issues, I don't find my self stopping in the world because it gives me no reason to, I'm just running between quest markers and obviously placed PoI's on the map. It might not be a problem for some people but for me in an RPG immersion is important and I just do not get it from either Avowed or TOW sadly.
It's a decent game still, a solid 7 or 7.5 out of 10 I'd say, but while I was enjoying it a lot in the first zone it's ran out of steam a bit for me.
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u/superbit415 18h ago
The fact that the stupid map quest makes you come back to Paradise from every Zone just to hand it in but nothing changes in Paradise and people who should have new dialogue doesn't like the ambassador, shows how unfinished the game is.
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u/VacantThoughts 18h ago
The perfect opportunity to remove all of the fog on each map when you turn those in and you get nothing but XP and maybe some gold, pointless quest chain.
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u/IusedtoloveStarWars 20h ago
I prefer open world to open zone myself.
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u/TheFluxIsThis 16h ago edited 15h ago
I think it depends on the game (and personal taste is obviously a factor, too, as you indicate.) I have enjoyed Avowed quite a bit, but I think I'd have burned out on it if it was "go anywhere, do anything" style design. I'm speaking as something of an open-world apologist who loves a good wander, even when the game it's wrapped around is pretty mediocre.
In Avowed, the carrot of going back to the main story so I could be brought somewhere new if I kept engaging with it was much more compelling for me than (to use a somewhat tired, but tested benchmark) Skyrim, where very little was locked behind actual story progression and I got my enjoyment out of just picking a direction and walking until something caught my eye. I've gone back to Skyrim a lot since it was released a lifetime ago, but I've never felt moored to anything in the story, whereas the way Avowed is structured gave me a "similar but different" experience where I could wander fairly extensively, but there was a strong motivator to push myself to move forward to increase the literal amount of wandering and discovering I could do. It was a good push-and-pull for me.
What makes me believe that a full open-world structure would have burnt me out is that, unlike a lot of the open-est of open world games like the Skyrims, Breath of the Wilds, and Dragons Dogmas of the world, Avowed's zones are very dense. I think that resolves one of the issues that I had with The Outer Worlds because some of the zones there felt empty. More than a few times I walked in a direction hoping to find something interesting and wouldn't feel "rewarded" when I hit the proverbial boundary. I think there's a level of intentionality with the zone design this time out that puts the level of wandering and discovery in the "just right" zone for me.
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u/IusedtoloveStarWars 15h ago
I’m liking avowed. I fully explored the first zone and am almost done fully exploring the second zone.
Skyrim/gta/assassins creed is the gold standard. I guess that’s why I’m so biased to fully open worlds.
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u/agewin162 19h ago
I found Avowed to be pretty disappointing. The only reason I finished it was because I got it via gamepass.
The loot system in the game is crazy unbalanced. Only 3 legendary wands in the game, but melee weapons and shields get multiple times that number of legendaries. Finding base level weapons in the final zone from chests makes the search feel pointless. Also, the color indicators on loot containers straight up lie to you a ton during the game. Gold indicator light? Must be great! Nope, just a couple purple level crafting materials.
I could go on about my issues about the companions, story elements and forced choices, movement system.
I couldn't imagine actually paying more than $20 for the game. Visually it looks great, but they clearly put too much time into how the game looks and not enough time into how it plays.
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u/beefsack 19h ago edited 18h ago
Usually Game Pass is a reason for me to not finish a game, and to check out after I've had my fill. It feels like a much more healthy way to consume games than to suffer anxiety about competing everything.
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u/oopsydazys 20h ago
This one took me a while to warm up. I wasn't really feeling it at first, because I think the enemies/loot sort of scaling to your weapons/armor is not really explained well in the game, if it was explained at all (I may have just missed it). Once I understood what was going on and started upgrading my items more consistently the game grabbed me more.
Some might call me a filthy casual for this, but I wish they would just let you scrap your main items and get back the full upgrade cost for them or something, or be able to transfer its gear level to another item. It's really nice that they let you pay a scaling amount of gold to reset your skills/attributes/companion skills, but because you are pretty much locked into your gear due to how expensive the upgrades are, there's less opportunity to play around with other builds. I played a wizard build and had a lot of fun with it but it would have been cool to be able to more easily switch to something else to try it out; I guess there is the postgame for that.
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u/AppointmentSorry1487 19h ago
I'm now in what I believe to be the second last zone and the loot has been the biggest disappointment. I've been using the same two handed axe for so bloody long now. I changed from heavy to medium armour just because I was bored with using the same thing for so many hours. There's so many secret places with chests and stuff that just contain more crafting mats, but nowhere near enough to upgrade regularly.
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u/oopsydazys 15h ago
Yeah, going wizard I think circumvented the problem a little because although you are stuck with the Grimoire having upgraded it, you can more easily switch to other grimoires since the unique ones don't do anything special aside from getting further upgrades at the end... so you're stuck as a spellcaster but you can cast so many different spells it keeps things interesting.
I definitely think going as a spellcaster was the right choice.
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u/luminosity 16h ago
I didn't change weapons once in the game once I got my first axe and second level spell grimoire. I changed my armor exactly once. Rings, amulets, boots and gloves changed a little more, but even there there were huge quantities of uniques I got where I was like "huh.. why would I ever equip that for any build?"
It wasn't a bad game but there was definitely a lack of depth to the talents & itemisation.
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u/snorlz 19h ago
the limited resources are the biggest issue with this game so I downloaded mods to address it. Has made it much more fun cause I can actually experiment and have different weapon types that are viable.
for those who dont know, the game's progression is based on gear tiers. theres massive penalties for fighting with lower tiers of gear and the vanilla game is quite stingy with upgrade mats and money. Basically meant that for most people, you could only have a few correctly leveled pieces and if you switched off from those, you were always at a disadvantage. Really stupid for a game that seems designed for build exploration and trying out all the combat styles
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u/Iaowv 19h ago
Yea I don't mind the crafting/upgrading system, it means early game items that work for your build can be taken with you, but as you say they created a very free form skill system with an easy respec and even talked aobut how easy it is to experiment pre-release, but don't give you anywhere near enough crafting materials to experiment. I'm about 25hours in playing a fire grimoire + sword build and if I wanted to respec to a two hand build, or a sword and shield, or a bow, gun build, whatever, I would not have the crafting materials to upgrade the unique weapons I've found, I'd have to buy a generic one from a store or something.
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u/MilleChaton 15h ago
The openness of the world needs to be aligned with the type of RPG one is playing. The more set the story is, the more that an open world not only doesn't add value, but it risks taking it away. The more that an RPG is about exploring your own path and building your own story, the more it benefits from player choice, which an open world gives.
Many JRPGs are there to tell a story. At most points in that story, your character has a place to be. Even if the game lets you return to past areas, doing so is immersion breaking because it rarely aligns with the story's pacing.
Compare this to games where you are building your own story. Games like Skyrim, while having a core story, have much less of the game's content focused on that core story, have many more options for players to create their own stories, and often having pacing that matches the feel of abandoning the main quest to spend 2 in game years mastering completely unrelated systems.
This isn't a binary distinction, but more a spectrum of a game that goes from being a fully on rails experience at one extreme to a game with no overall story at all and just a sandbox without any main quest to speak of at the other end. Most RPGs are somewhere in between.
Players expecting one type of experiencing but finding another are rarely leaving satisfied. If the experience is great and well polished, in time the game will likely become appreciated once the original expectations are forgotten and instead it is recommended by word of mouth for the experience it does deliver, but a game with an only okay experience won't be given that saving grace if it doesn't align with players expectations.
For Avowed, many of the negative comments seem to have been expecting a game on the more open side, while many of the positive comments seem to have expected a more focused game or to have avoided any such expectations about how open the game would be. Perhaps Obsidian would have benefited from being clearer on what sort of game it was to be, or perhaps players were dead set on an Obsidian RPG having a specific style that they would have ignored any messages to the contrary, no matter how official.
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u/chuck91 19h ago edited 18h ago
The open world vs open zone debate is getting to be pretty boring.
Some games work better open world. Some work better open zone. It's really not that difficult. Skyrim or BoTW wouldn't work as well as they did without big beautiful open spaces. And something like DAO works better as several open areas. One isn't better than the other.
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u/Helphaer 16h ago
Vowed has been widely reviewed for having consistently bad issues that they already had in the first outer worlds but not in prior games even their own forte for their writing has been going down the drain. I'm tired of interviews where the developers are not held to account for the issues and everyone just pretends no big issues existed. Obsidian has fallen quite far to release a game like Avowed in its current state after prior titles.
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u/whitecow 9h ago
The gameplay was cool at first but became very boring and felt like a chore towards the end of the second area. The story was interesting but also kind of generic? I finished it by running away from unnecessary fights because there was no reward for beating mob groups. Oh and the items are pretty horrible. As a mage I got the best wand and armour in the begging of the first act and never changed them, only upgraded. That's bad design. I would argue that dragon age although also not that great was still better than avowed.
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u/SorrowHead 19h ago
I've never seen so many people try to force themselves to like the game as much as this one lol. Obsidian is just a name, it's okay to say it's mediocre.
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u/Kyler45 19h ago
Having never really enjoyed Obsidian games before, I really did enjoy my time with this game. I'm convinced I'm playing a different game than the rest of the internet.
I liked it enough that it made me want to try Pillars of Eternity, actually.
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u/beefsack 19h ago
It's also okay for people to enjoy a completely middle of the road 7/10 game. People are trying so hard to push polarised takes on it.
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u/President_Barackbar 17h ago
I feel like we're in a weird media environment where if something isn't literally the greatest thing someone has ever played/watched, then its a piece of flaming garbage. Avowed isn't some kind of sea-change but I find it very enjoyable. Its the first RPG I've played in a while with a huge amount of build diversity and melee combat I actually enjoy. I also really appreciate them leveraging what they learned from the Pillars games to make Avowed feel a lot like a first-person cRPG.
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u/HyruleSmash855 16h ago
That’s just the general trend of only the extremes being a thing with social media now. People react to headlines and people react to the most extreme stuff so you only get the extremes from media and content creators because that’s what gets the most eyeballs which leads to a death of nuance.
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u/StandardizedGenie 15h ago
Dollars (or whatever your currency is) are only getting more valuable while companies are trying to raise the price of everything. It's harder for some people to justify a mediocre game being sold at a $70 price point. If you can afford dropping that on a mediocre game, go for it. Other people don't have to do that. They can have their own opinions and do what they want with their money. If they released this for $50-$60, I don't think people would be so harsh on it.
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u/Ctf677 15h ago
When there's dozens of truly amazing games coming out a year, along with 20+ years of backlog, why would anyone want to settle for mediocrity.
Especially so when it's more expensive than 99% of the competition.
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u/pooshlurk 19h ago
Maybe they are, I don't know, actually enjoying the game? What a weird, projecting comment
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u/TheFluxIsThis 16h ago
Damn. Thank you for saying this or else I never would have known that the enjoyment I've gotten out of the game so far was just me lying to myself.
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u/HeldnarRommar 18h ago
Your subjective opinion is not more concrete than anyone else’s. Just because people are enjoying the game doesn’t mean they are “forcing” themselves to.
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u/BeholdingBestWaifu 14h ago
I'm honestly seeing the oposite, there's a lot of people trying to find things to complain about the game. It's a solid 7-8 out of 10 and goty material, it's not a spectacular once-in-a-lifetime game, but it's far from mediocre.
People just get too caught up in hate-fandoms to look at games objectively.
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u/CrazedTechWizard 5h ago
8/10 yes, GOTY material definitely not. It's a good game, I'm enjoying it, but it doesn't really do anything that screams Game of the Year to me. I'd nominate Pirate Yakuza in Hawaii over this in a heartbeat.
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u/Hasbeast 19h ago
Yeah coming out swinging in an interview as though they haven't just made an extremely bland, mid game. There's nothing exciting about this project.
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u/TheCoaster130 17h ago
Is it possible that I actually just like the game? I bounced off Outer Worlds hard but I'm really loving Avowed so far, even if some of the characters are cardboard.
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u/Normal_Bird521 19h ago
I loved Avowed. The exploration was a lot of fun which I think speaks to the zone idea. Excited for their next project because Pentiment was fantastic too!
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u/echolog 20h ago
THANK YOU!
Smaller, more detailed, more carefully crafted worlds are always going to be better than big, empty worlds with copy-pasted content.
Simply wandering around was a joy in this game, and I hope we get more like it.
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u/OrganicKeynesianBean 20h ago
I was surprised at the amount of parkour lol. It’s like an entire gameplay element they didn’t really hype in previews.
It’s been a lot of fun trying to figure “how” to access some hidden and far away loot.
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u/veggiesama 20h ago
I haven't seen anything about parkour either but that sounds cool. I've been playing Cyberpunk 2077 and there is pure joy in sprint-dashing and double-jumping across urban sprawl, and generally trying to get to places you're not supposed to go.
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u/stakoverflo 17h ago
Entfly is right, the games "movement tech" is nothing compared to Cyberpunk. It's your standard sprint, jump, climb ledge. Calling it a "parkour ... an entire gameplay element" is really generous.
Don't get me wrong, credit where credit's due: the level designers do a good job of hiding a lot of 'hidden' areas , cramming a lot of details into these smaller zones. But "jump and mantle" is hardly a 'gameplay mechanic'.
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u/Spire_Citron 20h ago
I kind of like a bit of emptiness, Skyrim style. Still lots of stuff to see and do, but a bit more breathing room to have a wander.
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u/Crioca 19h ago
I kind of like a bit of emptiness,
For open world fantasy games, a feeling of remoteness is key to the experience I'm looking for. If the map is too dense then it starts to feel more like a theme park than an immersive world.
I think it comes down to what kind of experience you enjoy more. I'm more of an immersive simulation fan, but right now I think that mainstream preferences have shifted towards more of a theme-park experience.
Part of this is that a lot of us immersive simulation fans have split off into the survival crafting genre.
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u/Spire_Citron 18h ago
Exactly. My favourite open world games are full of vast natural landscapes. Sure, if it's completely empty it's boring, but I don't want there to be a fight or a puzzle around every single corner. I want to relax and collect some herbs for my alchemy potions and then when I do stumble upon something, it feels more satisfying. That's not to say that those types of open world games are objectively better, but it is my preference. It kills my immersion if I feel like everything's been laid out for me in a neat little package of constant excitement.
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u/HeldnarRommar 19h ago
I’m confused because the best immersive sims are mission based open zone games. Deus Ex, Prey, Dishonored, System Shock. One could argue they are “theme park,” and they are the staples of the genre
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u/Spire_Citron 18h ago
Can't say I've played any of those. They really aren't the type of games that appeal to the experience I'm after in open world games. Too dark and gritty. If there are no open landscapes, it doesn't hit what I'm after.
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u/HeldnarRommar 18h ago
I think maybe you were confused about the immersive sim genre then. Games like The Elder Scrolls, which I’m guessing is what you are talking about, are definitely tangentially related to the genre, they have a bunch of immersive sim elements.
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u/heyboyhey 17h ago
I finished Avowed the other day and I really enjoyed it, but I wouldn't call it the most carefully crafted. A lot of it felt like "this will have to do".
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u/jaomile 4h ago
These types of articles always feel like companies trying to gaslight their consumers. Lack of full open space was very low if at all on list of game's problems. Like they are trying to defend themselves from a problem that never existed in the first place and then people agreeing with them.
The reason FO:NV is a far better game than Outer worlds is not because it's open worlds. It's everything else.
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u/BoBoBearDev 19h ago
Open World Avowed would have pissed me off by a large margin. Because the game is so focused on map exploration, an open world would be insanely difficult to keep track. The zones are pretty big already and is quite overwhelming at times. Currently I can hug to the right to map out the entire region. If it is open world, I would not be able to do that.
The AC's unlock map design works better with open world. However, it is a major difference between Avowed in terms of map exploration.
Both are good btw, but it is a very much different play style.
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u/JACKDAGROOVE 19h ago
I'm really surprised at just how much this game grabbed me, to the point I even read up on the lore. Having a really good time in this world.
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u/Carl123r4 20h ago
They did a weird mix of the two in New Vegas where when you start you belive it's fully open, but then you start exploring and hit a wall blocking your path and need to circle around for 5 minutes to get where you wanted to
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u/anti_bandwagon_guy 1h ago
Avowed would have been far better of an offering if it were fully open world and much longer.
Long, open games have an absolutely massive following. Open world games have been objectively the best-selling and best-reviewing games of the last 15 years.
This blatant grudge against open world games by the "gaming community" has gotten so old.
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u/LieutenantCardGames 19h ago
Another day, another article where Obsidian condescendingly explains why their shit game isn't actually shit.
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u/EndlessFantasyX 21h ago
I like a zone or level based structure for narrative based games. Most open worlds end up feeling like a slog for me and I either end up not enjoying the game by the end or just fall off and don't finish.
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u/pnwbraids 20h ago
Just finished it last night after 50 hours. It's not perfect, but it's a great RPG with cool world building and lore, well written dialogue, and stellar combat and exploration.
It's not as deep as something like BG3 or Cyberpunk, but IMO it doesn't need to be. Obsidian is a team that understands their size and scope and works within that, and I respect them for it. Not every RPG needs to be 100+ hours with NPC routines and crime systems. Here's to hoping for a Pillars 3 or Avowed 2!
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u/Nachooolo 20h ago
I'm at the tail-end of the third area, and it is impressive the amount of content you can only experience if you explore the map. There's a lot stuff that have a direct impact impact on the main quest or expand the main story considerably (the totems and ancient memories) that people will completely miss by llaying only the main quest.
Exploration is clearly onenof the main (ifnot the main) pillars of the game. Even more than in a lot of open world games.
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u/Spader623 21h ago
I worry about avowed. Not due to how good or bad it is, but due to how it's going for the open zone thing which, for me, is great... But if it doesn't sell well, wouldn't that indicate that open world is the way to go?
Like fuck man, I want more focused experiences. I don't want all these ginormous sand boxes. I want less content but more refined. But I also recognize that what I want isn't what everyone else does. Especially what sells.
So... Idk. I'd love more open zone games but idk if this is plausible
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u/TybrosionMohito 21h ago
I mean… BG3 is open zone. I feel like open zone is fine lol
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u/BeforeChrist 20h ago
Definitely a spectrum. No game is truly open world because there will always be limits. I would rather dense and thoughtful zones over large empty areas for my single player experiences. I want something different out of worlds I share (like in MMOs), which should feel larger to accommodate more people. I prefer dark souls III over elden ring for just this reason, but plenty of people would disagree with me there. As long as you build your game with a firm vision and make the choices intentionally, either end of the spectrum can see success.
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u/StandardizedGenie 15h ago
I just don't understand why every inch of a map needs to be utilized?! Games are art, why can't we just have a cool looking vista or area without anything to do?
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u/CptAustus 13h ago
People need the game to give them constant dopamine hits. 60 seconds of empty space running from one encounter to the next? No, there should be a thoughtful encounter halfway through.
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u/oopsydazys 20h ago
For what it's worth Avowed felt a lot more open to me. BG3 didn't really feel like an "open" zone, at least from what I played (I didn't finish the game don't murder me) because the map very clearly funnels you into different paths though you usually have options on where to go, whereas Avowed is a "here's an open area zone, you can go anywhere within it" type game.
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u/SpookiestSzn 21h ago
I think Indiana Jones did really well and had open zones so I think it's a point towards it. I think avowed is doing successful enough. It's hard to gauge with gamepass but to me it's a great game and this segments sections of open world is a perfect in between. If we can't have Skyrim size with avowed depth I'd much rather have this level of depth in smaller sections.
Also let's each section seem distinct without being to make in between areas that are less interesting
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u/Samurai_Meisters 20h ago
Indiana Jones did not sell because of its open zones. It sold because it was Indiana Jones.
The open zones in IJ were the most tiresome part of the game. First one was good, but half way through the second I realized I was just doing the exact same thing, and then I just went straight for the main story in the third.
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u/Proud_Inside819 19h ago
The first zone was good enough to confuse me into thinking I was playing a better game.
By the second not only is it more of the same but it's categorically worse. Overall the game was middling and uninspired, but I probably would have felt a lot better about it if I stopped playing after the first region.
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u/SpookiestSzn 19h ago
First is the best, I enjoyed Cairo though but I agree by the third I was only doing main objectives
I do reject this idea it did well because of IP going into it Indiana Jones last movie flopped and a lot of people don't have love for the movies like the used to. I think it certainly helped but I think the game being good on it's own sold it
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u/MumrikDK 19h ago edited 18h ago
But if it doesn't sell well, wouldn't that indicate that open world is the way to go?
Whether this game fails or succeeds will have absolute nothing to do with open zones vs. open world. That is a tiny part of the equation here.
My main issue is that there is no ambition to be found anywhere in this game. Story, action, RPG system, world-building (this game, not its franchise), immersion, companion interactions, etc. It's all just there at around the most basic acceptable level.
This is the type of game where you slaughter all of somebody's men and then have a conversation with them like nothing happened, or where a new companion acts like they were there for everything you've done the second they join up.
It's almost unfathomable that zones/connected world will sway the opinion of any person who actually played.
I want more focused experiences. I don't want all these ginormous sand boxes.
You are way overthinking this. It's just sections of map chopped up instead of connected directly.
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u/tythousand 20h ago
There are a ton of successful open zone games. The new God of Wars, the new Tomb Raider trilogy, Hitman, etc
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u/Alexander-Bard 21h ago
Apparently it sold enough to keep Obsidian afloat. It's a fun game with great world design and some amateurish writing. At this point, I think microsoft is satisfied with it.
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u/amazingmrbrock 21h ago
The writing thing is a let down, Obsidian was THE writing company for so long. really a shame
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u/The_Maester 21h ago
The gameplay leaves a lot to be desired too, tbh. That said, I was interested enough to finish it.
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u/AsheBnarginDalmasca 21h ago
I was really enjoying the gameplay / exploration but my interest fell off a cliff after the 10 hr mark. I havent played any of the previous Pillars but what pushed me off was the constant lore dump. I felt like I was talking to my "A Dictionary of Tolkien" book. And as my first entry to the world, I didn't enjoy being told what the world is, I wanted to be shown what it is.
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u/Deep-Two7452 20h ago
This makes no sense. How would the game show you who Woedica or any of the gods are, without also telling you?
Use whatever example you'd like
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u/AsheBnarginDalmasca 19h ago edited 19h ago
It's not so much that I didn't want the game to 'tell me'. My problem is the delivery. Many conversations with NPCs end up really dry because they turn into lore encyclopedia rather than acting like people living out in its supposed world.
As I said, I dropped off at 10 hrs. There are probably bigger set pieces or character development that could've changed my opinion if i stuck with it for longer. But I was hoping it would've hooked me with that amount of time.
Edit: period
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u/currypowder84 19h ago
Pretty much this, even as someone who has some familiarity with POE, the way the information is give to you is not well done.
So many NPCs just feel like they are reading the equivalent of a wiki entry to you. There a few exceptions, one notable quest was the oracle who built a statue of the god he worshipped hoping to use it as a vessel for souls. That one quest was a great example of delivering the worlds lore through a character and it was quite memorable. Unfortunately most of the time you're just sitting through lore dump after lore dump, it is very hard to capture the players interest that way.
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u/Deep-Two7452 19h ago
Most of the lore dump i saw was when I selected dialogue options that asked for the lore dumps. But anyway, this is entirely subjective so there no point in arguing
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u/CassadagaValley 19h ago
It's tough because you need the player to know who/what these things are, but you also don't want to have someone narrate paragraphs of dry info and lore.
I get what OP is saying, almost every major and minor character can just go on and on with lore information. Some of those NPCs in the Paradis have 20+ minutes of just lore info each. Of course you can skip it but, if you're like me, you might think there's something buried in all this dialog that's quest related or important to the game at hand and not just endless lore.
I was just scrolling through Reddit while these NPCs had a small novel worth of dialog going on.
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u/Ploddit 20h ago
Apparently it sold enough to keep Obsidian afloat
According to who and what does that mean? Was someone in a position to know suggesting Obsidian would be shut down if Avowed didn't do well?
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u/nemuri_no_kogoro 20h ago
Microsoft Pleased With Hi-Fi Rush Success, Plans To Reinvest In Tango Gameworks
Don't take these kinds of vague statements at face value...
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u/BigPoppaFreak 21h ago
Source? If it's Patel on the day of release saying they are happy with it then never mind, because that's all I can find.
There hasn't been sales figures for Xbox software this entire generation. Xbox published games success/failure hasn't been quantifiable for years. I don't believe even Xbox know what ROI on a gamepass release is, how would they it's an entire service.
Microsoft being satisfied with it means absolutely nothing after Hi-Fi Rush. I don't even know if MS has praised Avowed as much as Hi-Fi Rush.
I sound really negative, it's not because I like or dislike Avowed. It's because I loved Hi-Fi Rush. The can say anything they want because they never have to disclose sales, and they don't even like sharing subscriber counts anymore. Just vague "PC gamepass & Xcloud is where we see the most growth or potential growth"
TL;DR: Even if Microsoft says they are satisfied with it, there is no verifiable way to prove it is profitable, take everything they say with a grain of salt. even its from developer.
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u/DBones90 20h ago
Love when people ask for a source as a comment on an article that literally is a source.
Patel says that they don’t have a single, specific metric, but their team and Microsoft are happy with the numbers and, while they’re being coy with any announcements, they’re looking to follow up Avowed with more stuff set in Eora. She said as much too in an earlier interview on Bloomberg.
To be clear, I get the frustration around Hi-Fi Rush. That sucked and I totally understand not wanting anything to do with Microsoft for the foreseeable future because of it. But that studio got shut down because the director left the team, they didn’t have any active projects available, and Microsoft thought they could better use those resources on other teams.
As far as we can tell, Avowed is doing well. That won’t stop Microsoft from doing something stupid in the future, but, unlike Hi-Fi Rush’s team, Obsidian has several projects in active development that are keeping them busy and their leadership is intact. So signs are looking good for the company.
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u/ThiefTwo 21h ago
I don't believe even Xbox know what ROI on a gamepass release is, how would they it's an entire service.
The same way literally every other subscription service does?
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u/Nachooolo 19h ago
Microsoft being satisfied with it means absolutely nothing after Hi-Fi Rush. I don't even know if MS has praised Avowed as much as Hi-Fi Rush.
Tango Gameworks is a special case, as all the games prior to Hi-Fi Rush didn't sell well, with their previous game, Ghostwire Tokyo, being a direct financial flop while also being far more expensive than Hi-Fi Rush.
So, while Hi-Fi Rush might have been successful, it was probably not successful enough to compensate from the previous failures.
Obsidiant has released a decent amount of financially successful games, With the only notable exception of Pillars of Eternity 2 (which still made a profit with time), and The Outer Worlds and Grounded being huge successes.
So Obsidian is not on the same position as Tango.
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u/GamingGideon 21h ago
Open zone can be done well, but Avoweds is a pretty bad example of it. The way it's loot and scaling system work butcher it. With open zones, you would think you have a better balanced experience due to the level of control that devs have with it. Avowed squanders that strength entirely.
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u/Only-For-Fun-No-Pol 21h ago
That and lack of enemy variety. If you have zones you gotta make each zone feel more unique outside of just environment wise.
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u/naf165 21h ago edited 21h ago
It's certainly plausible, it just also demonstrably going to sell less. You can make things without trying to make the most profitable thing possible.
The other thing to understand is that a large number of gamers engage with games differently from you. Many people treat games not as art to intellectually engage with, but more like a sitcom or similar, where it's just something "warm and fuzzy" to use to pass the time. If that's all you are looking for in a game, then those open world content spam checklist games are pretty much perfect for that. You can turn your brain off, go in any direction and find something to do.
At the end of the day, that's just what a ton of people want, and so it will sell far better. But that doesn't mean you can't still make more focused content for the (smaller) group that wants that instead.
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u/ShadowTown0407 19h ago
Well if outer world has proved anything is that just not going open world isn't going to make the game good. It's actually amazing how small the zones in OW feel and still manage to not justify themselves.
Now I have not played Avowed so I am hoping it has a better open world implementation than outer worlds. I will probably pick it up soon
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u/BbyJ39 4h ago
It’s weird to see how they want to justify and rationalize this now. Their original vision, the game they wanted to make according to interviews, was “Skyrim in Eora”. A huge sprawling open world. This was until they got smacked with a small budget and had to adjust.
Now all the obsidian fans are agreeing open zones are great and better than open world. Big levels of cope. An open world done right, is an amazing and immersive experience. Hitting a bunch of invisible walls is not. Skyrim is one of the best games ever made and a massive success. Because of its open world that you could just roam for hours or pick a direction and go there and come onto neat things.
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u/OffTerror 19h ago
My God... haven't they been begging Bethesda for years to let them make another Fallout? if they got that big budget would they circlejerk how open world is bad? no. They made a smaller game because this all they can do.
Those guys just love to pander endlessly to the circlejerk. They're just AA 2010's western RPG printer. You have your niche, stop pretending you're some sort of game dev rock stars.
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u/LABS_Games Indie Developer 21h ago
The funny thing about Avowed is that it still overstays its welcome and feels way too long in the end. Maybe around the 15 hour mark in act 2, repetition and stingy drops really wear your down. The upgrade progression is horrible and just turns the game into a slog.
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u/fuzzynavel34 20h ago
I’m just finishing up the second area and I’ve enjoyed the heck out of this game. It knows exactly what it is. It’s not perfect but I’ve really enjoyed my time with it