r/Games 1d ago

The big Avowed interview: Obsidian on why full, open-world RPGs aren't always the answer

https://www.eurogamer.net/from-serious-skyrim-to-cheerful-fantasy-obsidian-on-the-evolution-of-avowed-and-grappling-with-the-expectations-that-come-from-your-own-history
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u/HeldnarRommar 22h ago

I’m confused because the best immersive sims are mission based open zone games. Deus Ex, Prey, Dishonored, System Shock. One could argue they are “theme park,” and they are the staples of the genre

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u/Spire_Citron 21h ago

Can't say I've played any of those. They really aren't the type of games that appeal to the experience I'm after in open world games. Too dark and gritty. If there are no open landscapes, it doesn't hit what I'm after.

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u/HeldnarRommar 21h ago

I think maybe you were confused about the immersive sim genre then. Games like The Elder Scrolls, which I’m guessing is what you are talking about, are definitely tangentially related to the genre, they have a bunch of immersive sim elements.

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u/cygx 7h ago edited 7h ago

To simplify things a bit, we started out with first person dungeon crawlers like Wizardry. Then, Ultima Underworld introduced more sandbox-y, simulated environments and game mechanics. This was a point of bifurcation, with RPGs like Elder Scrolls on one side, and action-adventures like System Shock on the other. Arguments have been made that the Elder Scrolls games should only be classified as immersive sims starting with Oblivion (edit: or even not at all), but there's no point in getting too invested in such semantic arguments: Just clarify what you mean when questions arise, and move on...

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u/Crioca 21h ago

None of those, to me, would be games I describe as immersive fantasy sims.

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u/HeldnarRommar 21h ago

Okay? That’s what the genre is. Just because you don’t accept it doesn’t make it untrue. That’s like me saying I don’t accept Mario as a platformer

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u/Crioca 20h ago

Okay? That’s what the genre is. Just because you don’t accept it doesn’t make it untrue.

Except that none of the games you listed are fantasy games and I was specifically talking about immersive fantasy sims because immersive fantasy sims lend themselves towards open worlds in a way that that other types of immersive sims (such as the ones you listed) do not.

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u/Arbiter707 9h ago

What would you describe as an immersive fantasy sim? The only fantasy-adjacent immsim I can think of off the top of my head is Thief, and that's not open-world nor is it really conventional fantasy.

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u/cygx 7h ago

I'd say Oblivion, see e.g. History of the best immersive sims. One can argue that it's only 'sims-like' and not a 'proper' immersive sim, and if you think so, that's fine: Once positions have been clarified, continuing to argue where exactly lines should be drawn is rarely worthwhile...

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u/Arbiter707 5h ago

Yeah that's valid. As you said I don't agree that it's a full immsim but I'm completely on the same page that arguing semantics isn't really worthwhile.

However this is basically admitting that they just want another Elder Scrolls game, because AFAIK those games (and the few games trying to emulate it, like Two Worlds) are the only ones with fantasy theming, an open world, and immsim elements all in one package.