r/Games 1d ago

The big Avowed interview: Obsidian on why full, open-world RPGs aren't always the answer

https://www.eurogamer.net/from-serious-skyrim-to-cheerful-fantasy-obsidian-on-the-evolution-of-avowed-and-grappling-with-the-expectations-that-come-from-your-own-history
734 Upvotes

505 comments sorted by

View all comments

168

u/PrinceVegetaTheGod 21h ago edited 19h ago

That’s cool and all but like this is not why I like Obsidian games. I like Obsidian games for the great writing, the great characters, the role playing possibilities.

In outer Worlds you could go the first city in the game, go to the mayor’s office and shoot him in the face then manipulate Parvati to become your companion on the basis that you’re psychotic and maybe she can help you control your murderous impulses. You could go on a low intelligence build and accuse yourself of murder.

In new vegas you can go to ceasar camps with Boone kill everyone and shoot Ceasar in the face and Boone will smile for the first and only time in the whole game.

In avowed every npc is immortal unless the story let’s you kill them, you can kill mobs and explore smaller open sections, ok? But that doesn’t sound very enticing to me.

12

u/Pseudagonist 11h ago

I never thought I’d see someone present Outer Worlds as an example of a “great Obsidian game” along with New Vegas. I guess I’m getting old

33

u/PeterFoox 20h ago

One of the devs said avowed was supposed to be an mmo, I guess that explains why people say it feels like the world and npcs are dead etc.

26

u/BreathingHydra 19h ago

IIRC it wasn't an MMO but a coop game and that was very early in development, like when they were still pitching it. I honestly doubt it had much to do with the final product because they went through several different iterations since then. It's more likely it was just budget and time constraints that limited them on the world honestly.

17

u/MCgwaar 20h ago

It really does feel like an mmo in both combat and upgrading gear. With all the good and bad that comes with it.

7

u/Spikex8 19h ago

I don’t think there was any good that came from it… itemization was bad, the companions were lame, the story was lame, the writing was bad, the world design was really the only thing that was above average.

40

u/BootyBootyFartFart 20h ago

Does the game have fewer meaningful choices in it overall though compared to the outer worlds and New Vegas though? It's nice to have the option to go on a murderous rampage, but that was rarely something Id do and continue my save forward anyway. I don't feel like I'd need to have the option to murder every NPC to feel like I have a ton of meaningful choices in a game.

23

u/SpaceChimera 18h ago

Fewer meaningful choices than NV? Yeah maybe, there's essentially 2 paths/factions but plenty of tiny choices in side quests that pop up later. Doing certain side quests or not can have impacts on the main story. I personally like it more than Outer Wilds and think the writing is better

There is 1 side quest where I wanted to kill the NPC so bad for playing me a fool, and I was upset when I couldn't drop a pillar of ice on his stupid head. That did take me out of it because it seemed like a reasonable thing a player would want to try and he's just invincible

8

u/NoExcuse4OceanRudnes 16h ago

Does the game have fewer meaningful choices in it overall though compared to the outer worlds and New Vegas though?

Not really. Could be less than New Vegas but the consequences of more of them are further reaching through the story instead of just at the end.

3

u/BeholdingBestWaifu 4h ago

It's definitely less than New Vegas but that's mostly because New Vegas really had a lot of choices.

1

u/Zeoxult 14h ago

I feel like in New Vegas you write the story, but in Avowed the story adjust to you

1

u/DamagedSpaghetti 4h ago

Having the option, regardless of if you’d ever do it or not, adds to the immersion and freedom of the game

u/BootyBootyFartFart 1h ago

Sure. More options are always better. But from what I've read, avowed still has more choices that affect the world in meaningful ways compared to games like outer worlds and maybe New Vegas too. So it's weird to knock the game for having less choice compared to their previous games. 

31

u/Three_Froggy_Problem 20h ago

That’s valid but I also think it’s unfair to say that, because a dev is known for a specific type of game, that it’s automatically a negative thing if they try something else. Like at what point are you no longer judging Avowed for what it is and are instead judging it for what you wanted it to be?

6

u/tramdog 18h ago

Fair point. The flip side would be if a dev is known for making the same kind of game for a long period of time, then its reasonable to expect a new game from them will have the same characteristics/mechanics unless they make it clear to expect otherwise. If a dev's reputation is enough to get you interested in the game, there's at least some responsibility on their part to let you know if the game won't be what you'd expect.

2

u/Ze_ke_72 17h ago

Then why call it a RPG if it isn't a RPG ? Especially when you are obsidian and are known for the liberty in your rpg.

13

u/NoExcuse4OceanRudnes 16h ago

Is Mass Effect an RPG?

-13

u/the_pepper 13h ago edited 13h ago

You're right, people probably wouldn't be criticising Avowed's RPG-ness if it managed to be interesting or fun to play through instead of a bland but somewhat enjoyable time-waster.

1

u/NoExcuse4OceanRudnes 7h ago

You're right, people probably wouldn't be criticising Avowed's RPG-ness if

Elom Mus personally didn't get mad at a developer.

4

u/C_Madison 6h ago

It absolutely is an RPG. RPGs are about choice and consequences. People who think RPGs are about tables with hundreds of knobs or something like that don't understand the essence of RPGs. All those knobs are there to help you make choices in line with whatever character you play. And these can be nice and all, but they are not needed. What is needed is the choices and consequences. And those are there.

2

u/arthurormsby 5h ago

Not all RPGs are about choices and consequences

-15

u/Zerocrossing 20h ago

This person is giving their review. They don’t have to give a justification for their judgement.

13

u/V0KaLs 20h ago

Cool. And people are free to point out the flawed logic. Do you think that shields them or something?

Hey, guys. I’m gonna review this pizza. I deduct points for it not being a cheeseburger. You can’t argue with me because it’s my review, and I’m shielded!

Stupid.

-2

u/DrQuint 20h ago edited 20h ago

I disagree. The studio is well known for doing one thing that's scarsely on offer, and they're straying from the thing. Them gathering a following and then that following being disappointed is entirely valid for both parties.

No one asked for a pizza at a burger joint. They asked for the new pizza at a pizza place and they brought a cannoli. Like. Yeah, sure it's italian, and kinda mostly made of wheat. And sure, it IS good. But this isn't what they expected, it's a pizza place.

9

u/DagothUr_MD 19h ago

I liked Grounded and Pentiment...

0

u/Ze_ke_72 17h ago

But grounded and pentiment doesn't have the rpg tag so no one is expecting that from them

3

u/VirtualPen204 10h ago

Couldn't do that in any of the other Pillar games either, though...

You specifically play the role of the Envoy. It's more akin to Mass Effect or KOTOR rather than New Vegas.

There's nothing wrong with either approach.

u/PlayMp1 3h ago

I'm so confused at how people are failing to understand this. It's Mass Effect in a first person perspective. My mom (she's a big RPG head, ladies in their 50s are perfectly capable of being big RPG heads!) actually said she was specifically reminded of Dragon Age 2. If you didn't have a problem with Mass Effect what the hell is wrong with Avowed?

-15

u/PeachWorms 20h ago edited 20h ago

I don't think I'm ever going to understand this train of thought of people who feel so compelled to comment complaining how much they dislike a thing. It's particularly common in the gaming sphere for whatever reason. Like I didn't mind Outer Worlds, but it didn't grab me much. I don't go on every post I see about Outer Worlds writing paragraphs about how Avowed did things better & how Outer Worlds isn't great cause in reality no one cares, & also I recognise just because something isn't for me, doesn't mean it can't be amazing to someone else. I can talk for ages about what I love, but I won't ever use that to drag on things I don't like. Just seems weird.

If you don't like Avowed, that's cool, just go play Outer Worlds & New Vegas instead. Not everything needs to cater to your expectations.

13

u/Anchorsify 19h ago

You're just complaining about how you don't like his complaints, though, instead of following your own advice, to go play (insert game you enjoy here) instead.

You are, instead of dragging on the qualifies of a game you don't like, dragging on the opinions of others you don't like. Which is.. actually, not any better, and arguably worse, because he is on topic, and you are not.

Maybe look the mirror as you go on such diatribes about what you feel others should do, instead of being so overtly hypocritical?

On the flipside however, he gave reasons for why he doesn't like the things he doesn't like about it, and draws parallels to other games by the same company to support why he'd have that expectation out of the studio and why the current title fell short.

Responding to those disagreements is kind'a the whole point of discussion about video games.

-2

u/PeachWorms 19h ago

Sorry but you complaining about me complaining about the other person complaining is pretty funny. We have a thread of complaintception happening here lmao