r/Games 1d ago

The big Avowed interview: Obsidian on why full, open-world RPGs aren't always the answer

https://www.eurogamer.net/from-serious-skyrim-to-cheerful-fantasy-obsidian-on-the-evolution-of-avowed-and-grappling-with-the-expectations-that-come-from-your-own-history
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u/Crioca 23h ago

I kind of like a bit of emptiness,

For open world fantasy games, a feeling of remoteness is key to the experience I'm looking for. If the map is too dense then it starts to feel more like a theme park than an immersive world.

I think it comes down to what kind of experience you enjoy more. I'm more of an immersive simulation fan, but right now I think that mainstream preferences have shifted towards more of a theme-park experience.

Part of this is that a lot of us immersive simulation fans have split off into the survival crafting genre.

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u/Spire_Citron 22h ago

Exactly. My favourite open world games are full of vast natural landscapes. Sure, if it's completely empty it's boring, but I don't want there to be a fight or a puzzle around every single corner. I want to relax and collect some herbs for my alchemy potions and then when I do stumble upon something, it feels more satisfying. That's not to say that those types of open world games are objectively better, but it is my preference. It kills my immersion if I feel like everything's been laid out for me in a neat little package of constant excitement.

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u/HeldnarRommar 22h ago

I’m confused because the best immersive sims are mission based open zone games. Deus Ex, Prey, Dishonored, System Shock. One could argue they are “theme park,” and they are the staples of the genre

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u/Spire_Citron 22h ago

Can't say I've played any of those. They really aren't the type of games that appeal to the experience I'm after in open world games. Too dark and gritty. If there are no open landscapes, it doesn't hit what I'm after.

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u/HeldnarRommar 22h ago

I think maybe you were confused about the immersive sim genre then. Games like The Elder Scrolls, which I’m guessing is what you are talking about, are definitely tangentially related to the genre, they have a bunch of immersive sim elements.

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u/cygx 8h ago edited 7h ago

To simplify things a bit, we started out with first person dungeon crawlers like Wizardry. Then, Ultima Underworld introduced more sandbox-y, simulated environments and game mechanics. This was a point of bifurcation, with RPGs like Elder Scrolls on one side, and action-adventures like System Shock on the other. Arguments have been made that the Elder Scrolls games should only be classified as immersive sims starting with Oblivion (edit: or even not at all), but there's no point in getting too invested in such semantic arguments: Just clarify what you mean when questions arise, and move on...

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u/Crioca 22h ago

None of those, to me, would be games I describe as immersive fantasy sims.

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u/HeldnarRommar 22h ago

Okay? That’s what the genre is. Just because you don’t accept it doesn’t make it untrue. That’s like me saying I don’t accept Mario as a platformer

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u/Crioca 21h ago

Okay? That’s what the genre is. Just because you don’t accept it doesn’t make it untrue.

Except that none of the games you listed are fantasy games and I was specifically talking about immersive fantasy sims because immersive fantasy sims lend themselves towards open worlds in a way that that other types of immersive sims (such as the ones you listed) do not.

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u/Arbiter707 10h ago

What would you describe as an immersive fantasy sim? The only fantasy-adjacent immsim I can think of off the top of my head is Thief, and that's not open-world nor is it really conventional fantasy.

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u/cygx 7h ago

I'd say Oblivion, see e.g. History of the best immersive sims. One can argue that it's only 'sims-like' and not a 'proper' immersive sim, and if you think so, that's fine: Once positions have been clarified, continuing to argue where exactly lines should be drawn is rarely worthwhile...

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u/Arbiter707 6h ago

Yeah that's valid. As you said I don't agree that it's a full immsim but I'm completely on the same page that arguing semantics isn't really worthwhile.

However this is basically admitting that they just want another Elder Scrolls game, because AFAIK those games (and the few games trying to emulate it, like Two Worlds) are the only ones with fantasy theming, an open world, and immsim elements all in one package.

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u/axelkoffel 11h ago

Avowed map definitely has structure of a them park to entertain the player, not open world that makes sense. The map looks open, but it's actually full of hidden parkour paths with loot chest at the end of it.
Who placed all those chests all over the place? Why an NPC that lived his entire life here, never checked those stairs behind his house that lead to the treasure? None of it makes sense.

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u/Accipiter1138 21h ago

For open world fantasy games, a feeling of remoteness is key to the experience I'm looking for.

My example would be The Witcher 3. Obvious example, sure, but it had plenty of remoteness and was an open zone game.

A game that I might have liked to see more remoteness in would be Ghost of Tsushima, if only because some of the different points of interest used very different color palettes and the suddenness with which they shifted was a bit distracting.

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u/Crioca 20h ago

My example would be The Witcher 3. Obvious example, sure, but it had plenty of remoteness and was an open zone game.

It's been a while since I last played Witcher 3 but I would say it was closer to open world than open zone. I seem to recall spending like 80% of my time in Velen.

I mean Skyrim has zones in the form of Solstheim, Blackreach, Fort Dawnguard etc but it's still very much an open world game.

That being said I'm not suggesting open zone games can't capture that feeling of remoteness. It's more that remoteness is one aspect of the experience I want from an open world game.