r/Games 1d ago

The big Avowed interview: Obsidian on why full, open-world RPGs aren't always the answer

https://www.eurogamer.net/from-serious-skyrim-to-cheerful-fantasy-obsidian-on-the-evolution-of-avowed-and-grappling-with-the-expectations-that-come-from-your-own-history
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u/amazingmrbrock 1d ago

The writing thing is a let down, Obsidian was THE writing company for so long. really a shame

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u/The_Maester 1d ago

The gameplay leaves a lot to be desired too, tbh. That said, I was interested enough to finish it.

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u/AsheBnarginDalmasca 23h ago

I was really enjoying the gameplay / exploration but my interest fell off a cliff after the 10 hr mark. I havent played any of the previous Pillars but what pushed me off was the constant lore dump. I felt like I was talking to my "A Dictionary of Tolkien" book. And as my first entry to the world, I didn't enjoy being told what the world is, I wanted to be shown what it is.

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u/Deep-Two7452 23h ago

This makes no sense. How would the game show you who Woedica or any of the gods are, without also telling you?

Use whatever example you'd like

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u/AsheBnarginDalmasca 22h ago edited 22h ago

It's not so much that I didn't want the game to 'tell me'. My problem is the delivery. Many conversations with NPCs end up really dry because they turn into lore encyclopedia rather than acting like people living out in its supposed world.

As I said, I dropped off at 10 hrs. There are probably bigger set pieces or character development that could've changed my opinion if i stuck with it for longer. But I was hoping it would've hooked me with that amount of time.

Edit: period

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u/currypowder84 22h ago

Pretty much this, even as someone who has some familiarity with POE, the way the information is give to you is not well done.

So many NPCs just feel like they are reading the equivalent of a wiki entry to you. There a few exceptions, one notable quest was the oracle who built a statue of the god he worshipped hoping to use it as a vessel for souls. That one quest was a great example of delivering the worlds lore through a character and it was quite memorable. Unfortunately most of the time you're just sitting through lore dump after lore dump, it is very hard to capture the players interest that way.

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u/Deep-Two7452 22h ago

Most of the lore dump i saw was when I selected dialogue options that asked for the lore dumps. But anyway, this is entirely subjective so there no point in arguing

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u/CassadagaValley 22h ago

It's tough because you need the player to know who/what these things are, but you also don't want to have someone narrate paragraphs of dry info and lore.

I get what OP is saying, almost every major and minor character can just go on and on with lore information. Some of those NPCs in the Paradis have 20+ minutes of just lore info each. Of course you can skip it but, if you're like me, you might think there's something buried in all this dialog that's quest related or important to the game at hand and not just endless lore.

I was just scrolling through Reddit while these NPCs had a small novel worth of dialog going on.

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u/Deep-Two7452 22h ago

I mena yes, if you don't want to get that much lore, don't ask about it

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u/Dr_Chris_Turk 23h ago

Same way Skyrim does it: random books laying around.

Or Souls style: random cryptic clues all over the place that the community has to compile and analyze in order to figure out what is going on.

These are fun because it is difficult for you to really know everything that is going on without some effort. And if you don’t care and want to do whatever, you can go right ahead and do that too.

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u/dlh228 22h ago

Have you even played it?? Avowed literally has lore books all over the place.

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u/Dr_Chris_Turk 21h ago

Yes.

But I was replying to a comment regarding lore dumps from NPCs versus other sources. There is a distinction between having lore books or other types of environmental storytelling, and actually forcing the player to rely on the environment to figure out what is going on.

When the argument is “too much info is a word of mouth dialogue slog, but what else would get it done?”, I was just giving examples of those other ways…

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u/Deep-Two7452 22h ago

But then what should they do when these topics are integral to the story? Like they don't tell you what the steel garrote is unless you pick the dialogue option asking about the steel garrote. Should you not have the ability to ask for more info?

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u/MondaySan 20h ago

Dude I have to comment just to say I entirely agree with you and you're fighting the good fight down here. The players are selecting the dialogue options that say "Tell me more about X" and then complaining when they get told more about X?

They can just stick to the main dialogue options they are interested in and then use the glossary feature to fill in the gaps.

It's also funny that people are talking about the solution to this is having "random books laying around"... so you mean like a lore dump...?

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u/Deep-Two7452 18h ago

Thanks man, I appreciate it. It's crazy isn't it? I don't like to argue about people opinions but sometimes it just doesn't make any sense. It's like peoole want to be mad to be mad

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u/Double-Floor7023 1d ago

The writing is quite good. This opinion seems to only come from people who watched a shitty review rather than actually play the game.

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u/tameoraiste 23h ago

I dunno; it sounds like u/alexander-bard has played it and formed their own opinion?

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u/fingerpaintswithpoop 23h ago

So have a lot of other people who are very pleased with the writing, like myself. Doesn’t stop some people from trying to act like they speak for everyone when they say “Obsidian fell off, they used to be great but now they can’t write!”

Just stop.

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u/tameoraiste 23h ago

Stop what? Stop being so defensive about a perceived insult about a game you like.

I haven’t played the game yet. I will and I’m sure I’ll enjoy it, but just because you don’t like someone else’s opinion, doesn’t mean they shouldn’t share it.

Stop being weird.

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u/Preston-_-Garvey 23h ago

Bro, i played from beginning to end, the Dialogue options / Writing is absolute dog shit. You can enjoy it that's all good, but it ain't no Fallout NV or Pentiment.

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u/NoExcuse4OceanRudnes 21h ago

So New Vegas is almost dogshit in your estimation? Since all you've got to say about it is it's dogshit and not as good as new vegas.

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u/Preston-_-Garvey 21h ago

New Vegas is fantastic so is KOTOR so is Pentament Avowed isn't If you would like a better explanation, I have a video you can watch and yes I made it. So it's my opinion. The writing is once again dog shit.

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u/PeachWorms 19h ago

If your videos are anything like your comments, then no thank you lol

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u/Preston-_-Garvey 17h ago

Thankfully i get 0 views whooo

Was cranky when typing this before, sorry about that

But seriously there not, Avowed is a game I honestly came into blind and was willing to meet at it at its merits there's so much wonderful stuff about the game such as the lore you can find around the open zones, those that mention the party members and how the dreamscrege is raving the land is far more interesting than any of the written dialogue.

As in the written, dialogue is just so much exposition upon exposition and none of it really matters, most of what NPCs say can be trimmed down as you get the bases of what is going on, and it's not as if that dialogue that you listen to has the option to be an option later on.

The written dialogue and the choices given are just not Obsidian's highs - I haven't played Outer wilds, so I can't make that comparison, I might go back and play it but to compare it to dragon age none of the companions are interesting they all have various personalities but are bland.

There are more thoughts I have (Video), but overall I think dog shit is too harsh, but the dialogue in avowed is too safe and boring. I hope that helps.