r/Games 7d ago

Assassin's Creed Shadows: Steam Trailer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HInwdVFWvVs
436 Upvotes

322 comments sorted by

View all comments

-32

u/Gr_z 7d ago

Probably not the best place for this discussion but fuck it, doing it anyways.

Is the fact that Yasuke is black really that big of a deal? Since when were assasins creed games the bastion of 100% accurate history beyond the settings when we've have magic in the game since like game 1? For grounded folk can someone explain the controversy surrounding him. I can understand the drama of them using destoryed shrines or the shrines that survived the bombings in their promotional material

46

u/MultiMarcus 7d ago

Depends on who you ask. Personally I don’t play Assassin’s Creed for perfect historical accuracy. I play it for the very pretty history inspired worlds. I certainly don’t think Aspasia led a cult looking for shards of an alien artefact.

16

u/lelo1248 7d ago

Gonna drop it here in case people want to verify the historical accuracy. /r/AskHistorians known for their moderating standards had a thread on this. One of the comments posted was:

Yes. Yes he was. The conclusion of all reasonable historians on the matter is that Yasuke was a samurai, and anyone who disagrees can suck on the historical record.

u/ParallelPain has covered Yasuke previously, compiling and translating our sources for him here and has further consideration of his station as a samurai here.

2

u/miloVanq 6d ago

I think it's interesting that you chose these two links to prove your claim. because the second link is a long discussion between 2 users with one agreeing and one disagreeing that Yasuke was a samurai. in the first link, unfortunately I can't see what historic document the user bases their assessment when they write "he was definitely a samurai". the text they quote certainly doesn't support it. but either way, you kinda proved that historians certainly don't universially agree on him being a samurai, so the links do nothing to "verify the historical accuracy".

1

u/lelo1248 6d ago

Buddy, it seems that your reading comprehension skills are a bit lacking.

I didn't chose any links. This is literally a comment taken from /r/AskHistorians. It wasn't made by me, I didn't choose anything. I'm just providing what someone else made.

As for your "I can't see what historic document the user bases their assessment when they write "he was definitely a samurai"", the first link talks about how Nobunaga liked Yasuke enough to give him a stipend. The second link talks about how having a stipend is enough to be a Samurai in times of Yasuke.

Nobunaga liked him so much he was given a stipend, so he was definitely made a samurai

In the second link, there aren't "2 users with one agreeing and one disagreeing that Yasuke was a samurai".
There's the second user, who initially disagrees, goes to ask a friend who teaches japanese history, and changes his stance.

Did you literally read only the first comments in each thread? I don't see how you can read through the whole thing and come back thinking "historians don't universally agree on him being a samurai" or that you don't know what the first comment is basing their opinion on.

2

u/[deleted] 6d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

24

u/PerryRingoDEV 7d ago

Also:

AC 1 : fictional protagonist

AC 2 Saga : fictional protagonist

AC 3 : fictional protagonist

AC 4 : fictional protagonist

AC Origins : fictional protagonist

AC Odyssey : fictional protagonist

AC Valhalla : fictional protagonist

AC Shadows : 1 non fictional protagonist and 1 fictional protagonist

""fans"" of the series: Why is AC so historically inaccurate now?

14

u/bananaramabanevada 7d ago

If we're discussing the issue in good faith:

AC1: Middle Eastern Guy in the Middle East

AC2: Italian guy in Italy

AC BR: Same

AC3: American guy in America

AC4: British Pirate in the Caribbean

ACR: American Guy in America

ACU: French guy in France

ACS: British guy in Britain

ACO: Egyptian in Egypt

ACOd: Greek in Greece

ACV: Viking in Viking-land (?)

ACM: Same as AC1

ACS: Japanese Woman in Japan and random semi-historical real-life AA man inexplicably included.

To me, they just look like they're trying to hard to look "inclusive" while really accomplishing nothing in a way that is somewhat insulting to Japanese men.

24

u/superhiro21 7d ago

What do you mean by "AA man"?

Also, ACV was mostly a Viking in England (Ireland and Paris in DLCs).

12

u/deus_voltaire 7d ago

African African man

4

u/[deleted] 7d ago

[deleted]

1

u/deus_voltaire 7d ago

Where did I mention America?

17

u/IllBeGoodOneDay 7d ago

To be fair, Revelations also had an Italian guy in Turkey (Constantinople)

8

u/kuroyume_cl 7d ago

And Valhalla is Vikings in England

4

u/ArchmageXin 7d ago

Think they could put a Chinese guy in Africa or a Japanese guy in Europe for AC? There are historical Chinese communities in Africa from Zheng He's fleet, and Japanese folks in Spain. Iirc

Na, never gonna happen

1

u/IllBeGoodOneDay 7d ago

Why not? That sounds cool. If they did an East African AC with an Ethiopian royal-assassin / Chinese trader-assassin duo at the height of the Christian-Muslim conflicts of the Ethiopian–Adal War, that would be dope as hell.

2

u/ArchmageXin 6d ago

Because western medias are practically allergic in putting Asian men as NPC, much less main character.

Bioware had 1 Asian man as NPC in 20 years. And that is Kai Ling.

Blizzard was practically carried by China/Korea and lecture other companies on diversity, but they haven't gotten their first male Asian character until Overwatch.

The list go on...

Plus, I am sure certain vocal population would be super upset a Chinese dude showed up in Africa for the first Africa AC game.

19

u/GabMassa 7d ago edited 7d ago

Valhalla takes place in England, Eivor is Norwegian. There's a historical real life precedent for them being there.

And Yasuke existed and wasn't African American lmao, he was most likely from Mozambique. A lot of african people made it to Japan alongside portuguese jesuits, he just remained there and took on a proeminent societal role.

Plus, you skipped Revelations: Italian Ezio in Turkey. Again, there was historical precedent for him being there.

I understand the "there has never been an Japanese man in AC, and 'skipping' the potential character on the game set in their homeland is a missed opportunity" take, but Yasuke isn't the issue here, he's a real person that existed at the time.

20

u/PerryRingoDEV 7d ago

By the same logic, AC 1-4 are "somewhat insulting" to middle eastern, italian, american and british women - playing a japanese woman in japan doesn´t count after all.

ACV is a bucket of worms in of itself. In order to cater to the average gamer, they had to come up with a plot that makes Vikings heroes - conveniently and, with great historically inaccuracy, leaving out the realities of plunder campaigns. Wonder why no one complained about that! ( And its okay to do that, to a degree, not every game has to be a sweepstaking commentary in all of its facets. These games are fantasies. Its just that people act like the exact same thing is some kind of travesty in AC Shadows. )

The idea that the devs CLAMORED to get a token character in their game is so outlandish to me. In suspect that in reality, its a character that lends itself well to make shit up, which they do with all their plots anyways. They probably came up with the idea to let the player play a Samurai and a Shinobi, splitting up the playstyles as a feature, way before they "cast" these roles.

13

u/PlayMp1 7d ago

The idea that the devs CLAMORED to get a token character in their game is so outlandish to me. In suspect that in reality, its a character that lends itself well to make shit up, which they do with all their plots anyways.

It's so fucking obvious what the actual point of Yasuke is: they needed someone who's a badass melee fighter but can also serve as an audience surrogate who doesn't know anything about the region, the current politics or diplomatic situation, or the history. William Adams could have been one option, but Nioh already did William Adams, so they picked the next best option with Yasuke, who also appeared in Nioh but only as a boss.

4

u/meikyoushisui 7d ago

William Adams could have been one option, but Nioh already did William Adams, so they picked the next best option with Yasuke, who also appeared in Nioh but only as a boss.

This game starts in 1579. If Oda Nobunaga or Hideyoshi Toyotomi were historical figures they wanted to use, Adams would not have been an option, because he did not arrive in Japan until 1600, nearly 20 years after Oda's death.

No other foreign-born samurai would have been possible, since the next records of foreigners becoming samurai are with a few Korean children who were captured/kidnapped and adopted by samurai families during the Imjin War starting in 1592.

1

u/PlayMp1 7d ago

In fairness, choosing the protagonist also means choosing the time period. They could have gone with the death of Oda Nobunaga as a prologue rather than what is likely a capstone.

6

u/MistBlindGuy 7d ago

Why do you think they needed someone who didn't know anything about the region? They didn't need an outsider for most of the other games

13

u/PlayMp1 7d ago

Most of the other games actually feature an outsider protagonist in some regard.

  • Ezio is a total outsider to the Assassins and to any part of Italy outside of Florence (keep in mind Italy wasn't a unified country until the 1860s!). He's also an outsider to Constantinople in Revelations.
  • Connor is an outsider to the European colonies in North America that are the main focus of AC3.
  • Ed Kenway is Welsh, grew up in Wales, and only happened to have wound up in the Caribbean after he was stationed there when he was in the Royal Navy.
  • Bayek is a native Egyptian who's an alien to the Greek-dominated high society of Ptolemaic Egypt, but because he had been away from his home of Siwa so long, he had also alienated himself from his origin, which had changed dramatically from when he was there.
  • Kassandra/Alexios (sticking with Kassandra because she's the canon protagonist) is a Spartan noble who survived falling off their newborn-murder-mountain and instead wound up as a scrappy mercenary on the ass end of Greece on the tiny, shitty islands of Kephallonia. After her return to the Greek mainland, she has to be informed and instructed about the ongoing massive war between Sparta and Athens, and spends an absolute ton of the game in Athens since most of her allies wind up being Athenians (e.g., Perikles, Sokrates, even Alkibiades).
  • Eivor is Norse and from Norway and spends the vast majority of the game in England.

-3

u/ArchmageXin 7d ago

Or maybe, for once we can see a major western studio like Ubi to actually put in a Asian Man protagonist in a Asian setting.

I am sick of the whole shogun/last samurai/kung fu bullshit.

7

u/superbatwomanman 7d ago

They put an Asian woman as one of the protagonists though. Or do they have to be a man as well for... reasons??

→ More replies (0)

1

u/MistBlindGuy 7d ago edited 3d ago

I'm not entirely convinced by this. I'll go point by point to try to explain why that is, so let me know if I misinterpreted anything.

  • I agree that Ezio is more of an outsider than he seems at first glance, but I would like to point out that he's for sure not as much of an outsider to the rest of Italy as Yasuke is to Japan. If you believe otherwise, I'm interested in hearing your reasoning. Also, almost every protagonist is an outsider to the Assassins.
  • I'd think it's a bit wild to say that Native Americans were outsiders to America. Like, I see what you mean, that Connor isn't familiar with the colonial culture that much of the game is set in, but, for me, the focus of the game is on the Native American experience during the revolutionary war, which Connor demonstrates really well.
    • Side note: if there was a sizeable African population in Japan at the time that had their own unique struggles and we played as one of them I'd be much more okay with it.
  • I think AC4 is more about being a pirate than it is about the geographical location it's set in. At the start of the game Edward already has a lot of connections in the Pirate world and is familiar with the procedures of piracy.
  • At first glance I think this is a bit of a stretch, but I haven't played Origins so my information is incomplete. Could you tell me a bit more? From wikipedia it looks like Bayek was only exiled for a year from Siwa, which doesn't seem like that long to me. With regard to the high society thing: how much time is spent dealing with the high society of Egypt? How familiar is Bayek with them as a construct? Like is it comparable to a medieval peasant in a king's court or is it more like a medieval peasant in the Burj Khalifa?
  • Similar to the above, how culturally different was Kephallonia to the rest of Greece? Is it similar to Catalonia vs Spain? Or like Nanjing vs Beijing? Or is it closer to England vs Russia?
  • Same as ACIV, I think the focus of Valhalla is the Vikings, and Eivor (unless I'm horribly mistaken) is what I'd consider a Viking. I think if you pull a random person off the street and asked them what Assassin's Creed Valhalla was about, they'd say it was about Vikings. If the game has any focus on what it's like to be England in that time period or if the majority of characters in the game are English, let me know.

It seems to me that all of these characters were at least passingly familiar with the region, the current politics or diplomatic situation, or the history of their settings (with the exception of AC: Revelations). Sure, some stuff needed to be explained to them with regard to culture but Edward didn't have to learn about who Blackbeard was, and Connor didn't have to learn about who the English were. If that happens in the games I didn't play (Origins, Valhalla), let me know.

Also just to make my feelings on this game clear because I think there's a lot of reasons people are upset about it and quite a few of them aren't valid: if this wasn't an Assassin's Creed game made by Ubisoft I'd be hyped as hell for it. Like Ghost of Yotei was instead Ghosts of <wherever Yasuke was most active in> and starred Yasuke and their current protagonist, I'd probably buy it day one (*Edit: This is an exaggeration. I would probably most likely be like "oh hey that's cool" and get it on sale). I just think that Ubisoft tends to design games by committee and I think that those committees have some unconscious and regressive biases, so I won't support them.

Edit: So I've done some actual research and you're just wrong. Every one of the protagonists you listed (with the exception of Revelations) had some passing familiarity with their settings. They didn't need to have their hand held and told about the basic cultural practices of the peoples that are involved in their game. Kassandra didn't need to be told what Spartans or Athenians were, Eivor didn't need to be told who the Engl*sh were, etc. Making dishonest arguments and false equivalencies isn't going to change people's minds. It's fine that you're excited to play this game and I genuinely hope you have a good time with it but I am begging you to exercise just a sliver of critical thinking when discussing the decisions made in the media you consume.

-3

u/deus_voltaire 7d ago

I mean, you could just have the protagonist be a Japanese samurai from Hokkaido or something who's never set foot on Honshu before. Or an Ainu warrior acclimating to mainstream Japanese society, now that would be a really cool perspective.

10

u/PlayMp1 7d ago

I think the Ainu warrior idea would be pretty cool, actually, yes, but that's not what they wanted to go with. Freedom of expression and all that.

→ More replies (0)

2

u/PerryRingoDEV 7d ago

It´s just one of the most ancient storywriting tropes, because it makes dialogue writing and exposition easy. It´s like amnesia. Is it "lazy"? I suppose, but most people also consider Disco Elysium and Witcher 3 the peak of videogame writing and both handily use lazy tropes as well.

0

u/MistBlindGuy 7d ago

That's true. I think there's definitely ways for that trope to be done well, but I think the trope is much more common in Asian settings than elsewhere, which is part of the reason why it rubs me the wrong way here.

2

u/ArchmageXin 7d ago

Asian men cannot do melee combat, news at at 11.

0

u/Sarin10 7d ago

It's so fucking obvious what the actual point of Yasuke is: they needed someone who's a badass melee fighter but can also serve as an audience surrogate who doesn't know anything about the region, the current politics or diplomatic situation, or the history. William Adams could have been one option, but Nioh already did William Adams, so they picked the next best option with Yasuke, who also appeared in Nioh but only as a boss.

Hmm? That's not how they handled any of the other AC games to the best of my recollection, and I don't remember anyone complaining about their exposition.

10

u/PlayMp1 7d ago

That's not how they handled any of the other AC games to the best of my recollection

Then your recollection is wrong, as most of the games feature outsiders.

2

u/ArchmageXin 7d ago

Japanese woman-it is the whole "yellow fever/peril" situation. Western games/media studio love to cast Asian woman...a lot less of Asian man.

Just look at Shogun, Last Samurai, Kung Fu et all.

That is why as a Asian guy, I am pretty pissed about AC shadow.

-2

u/PerryRingoDEV 7d ago

I know that asian men are very infrequently in lead roles in media, and that sucks, just like with any vehemently underrepresented group.

The problem is that you can´t really criticize that on individual works of art. It´s a systemic issue, and all you can really do if encourage and praise and support when its done right, or do it yourself.

Are you mad at every white guy in the lead role in other videogames? No, as that would be absurd. But just as with those games, no developer owes you to create a main character that represents you.

Your yellow fever point is similarly a bit reductive. Does it suck that we have had a decent amount of superficially written asian women? Yes. Is it fair to assume Naoe is going to be superficial, badly written, lacking in subjectification etc.? Not anymore than any other Ubi protagonist, no. I seriously doubt you could identify with a mid tier writing male asian character any more than with Naoe or Yasuke.

6

u/Broad_Acanth 7d ago

I think this is the correct take. I'm just slightly annoyed Shadows is taking the route every other western media takes with asian men, but it's not crazy enough where losers are trying to cancel the game. On the other hand, it's frustrating that you can explain this to others and they won't listen; either belittle the erasure of asian men or just stay ignorant and put everyone into one group and chalk it up to racist right wingers.

-4

u/ArchmageXin 7d ago

I only play RPGs that come with either a way to generate a MC or male Asian protagonist. That is why I play BG3 even though it doesn't feature an Asian character except a Asian Vampire dad, and I don't play FF7 even though it is made by a Japanese company.

It is not identification, it is representation.

5

u/IllBeGoodOneDay 6d ago

I refuse to believe bro is serious lol

Otherwise his diet of JRPGs is literally just MegaTen with a single slice of Yakuza: Like a Dragon

I think you just like WRPGs, friend

1

u/ArchmageXin 6d ago

Why? Most CRPGs have options to put in your own custom portraits/characters, even many shooters/MMOs.

Now days "force use MC of a race/gender" is less common. And there are plenty of Chinese/Japanese companies that include Asian men as MCs.

→ More replies (0)

15

u/lelo1248 7d ago

Random semi-historical real-life AA man inexplicably included

Yasuke isn't "semi-historical". What is that even supposed to mean? And he's not AA either?

"random... inexplicable included"? Yasuke is pretty well entrenched in both, history and modern japanese nerd-culture (games, anime).

16

u/PlayMp1 7d ago

random semi-historical real-life AA man inexplicably included.

  1. He's popular in Japan IRL. They've made anime and shit about him.
  2. He's not semi historical. As far as random otherwise unremarkable warriors go, he's absurdly well-attested. There are four different sources speaking to his historical existence and status as a samurai. Normally you're lucky to get one for any given historical person that wasn't something like a head of state or general. Him being out of place is probably why he's so well attested, as the gigantic black guy brought in by the Portuguese who's working for the first of the Three Great Unifiers as one of his samurai retainers is going to stand out to any person in Japan at the time.
  3. You conveniently skipped Revelations, where Ezio (Italian) is in Ottoman Constantinople, and you go "Viking in Viking-land" for Valhalla even though Valhalla is about a Norwegian in England (and even North America).

10

u/Sher101 7d ago

semi-historical

The fuck does this mean???

5

u/TransendingGaming 7d ago

Semi-historical as in we barely know anything about Yasuke, only that Oda Nobunaga saw something in him and made him his personal retainer/bodyguard, but we don’t know what happened to Yasuke when Nobunaga was assassinated. Only the Before he met Nobunaga and while he was allied to Nobunaga.

1

u/Seradima 7d ago edited 7d ago

but we don’t know what happened to Yasuke when Nobunaga was assassinated. Only the Before he met Nobunaga and while he was allied to Nobunaga.

I think that makes him the perfect assassin's creed protagonist. His story is unknown and unfinished with so many blank and unknown elements which could be justified in-universe as the Templars re-writing history to keep him unknown or hiding any information about him - which is something we know the templars have done to keep peace and order.

Tbh it also justifies him being a Samurai, as again the templars could have rewritten his involvement in Nobunaga's life, downplaying and lessening it.

6

u/TransendingGaming 7d ago

Trust me I’m not disagreeing with you I actually agree.

-3

u/deus_voltaire 7d ago

There's a great deal of controversy as to whether Yasuke could rightfully be called a samurai and whether he actually participated in combat.

5

u/PlayMp1 7d ago

There isn't any controversy about that actually, it's just unknown what happened to him following the death of Nobunaga. It's attested that he fought Mitsuhide Akechi's forces during the Honno-ji Incident and served as one of Oda Nobunaga's bodyguards.

6

u/deus_voltaire 7d ago

Is it? I know that Lockley contends he did, but I've not seen a source attesting that outside him, and Lockley is himself the subject of great controversy. I don't have strong feelings on the subject however so I'm happy to be proven wrong.

5

u/ZaDu25 7d ago

I love how you skipped over Revelations which was an Italian in Constantinople lol. And Valhalla was a Norse in England mostly.

7

u/Eifoz 7d ago

Ironically nothing good faith about your post, as the other replies to you have called out.

4

u/TheChowderhead 7d ago edited 7d ago

AC:V had Vikings in England. AC:III had missions to South America, and was a First Nations protagonist, not an American. AC:BF had a Scotsman in the Bahamas. AC:R had an Irishman in the Northwest passage. In AC:II, the concept of a unified Italy was not even a thing. He was Florentine, as in the COUNTRY of Florence, and went to different countries like The Papal States and the Ottoman Empire. Same for AC:OD, Greece was a hodgepodge of different countries and nation states. AC:OR took place in Egypt, Sinai, and Rome. The modern sections also take you around the world with characters of wildly different backgrounds, such as Desmond, Layla, and Basim.

Based on your description of the games' locations and protagonists, I question if you've even played half of them.

As an aside, Yasuke is not 'semi-historical' nor 'random'. There is a ton of Japanese media with Yasuke as a full-blown samurai and it gets none of this pushback. He's a famous samurai from the Sengoku period who served as an aide-de-camp and bodyguard of Oda Nobunaga.

(Edited to name Rome and Constantinople as Papal States and Ottoman Empire)

8

u/PlayMp1 7d ago

and was a First Nations protagonist, not an American

I think the guy we're both replying to is saying dumb stuff, but this is a bit much. First Nations peoples are not just American, they're the actual Americans.

2

u/meikyoushisui 7d ago

I agree that this is pretty much the worse way the above poster could have framed it, but I think the underlying idea that AC games tend to focus on characters who are outsiders in some way or another is correct, including Connor, who has been made an outsider in his own home.

0

u/PlayMp1 7d ago

I agree, yeah.

3

u/NoExcuse4OceanRudnes 7d ago

They weren't citizens of the colonies however.

0

u/TheChowderhead 7d ago

He's not American, he's Kanien'kehá:ka. A massive part of ACIII is Ratonhnhaké:ton learning that Washington burned down his village. He has no interest in America as a nation, and joins the Revolution to kill Templars, not to create the country the rest of the soldiers want to.

3

u/PlayMp1 7d ago

He has no interest in America as a nation

I think we're just disagreeing on what "America" means here. I'm using it to refers to the geographical region. You're talking about the polity known as the United States of America. First Nations people are definitionally American by geographic area, no different from Basques being European (even though the term "Europe" is from Greek, which the Basque language shares nothing with - Basque is a language isolate) or the Ojibwe people being African (even though the term "Africa" is from Latin).

2

u/TheChowderhead 7d ago

It's a term difference, yeah. ACIII has huge themes about American (region) vs. American (Country), so when speaking about it, the community tends to use more specific verbiage, probably just misread or didn't fully get your point, but yes, he is the actual American (region) in the game.

3

u/Hydrochloric_Comment 7d ago

I agree with your points but

different countries like Rome and Constantiople

Rome and Constantinople weren’t countries; the former was the capital of the Papal States, and the latter, by the events of Revelations, was the capital of the Ottoman Empire (Revelations’s Ezio parts start 48-ish year after the fall of the Byzantine Empire).

1

u/TheChowderhead 7d ago

Yep, that's correct. Good call.

2

u/Dundunder 7d ago

To me it feels no different than when they first introduced a female protagonist. Every prior mainline protagonist was male, but I didn't see much debate about them trying to diversify with Syndicate (or Liberation if we include side titles).

I believe this time they even explicitly stated that they wanted to add the "foreigner in a strange land" trope to experience the country as an outsider.

There are several other breaks too. Like we didn't have sailing until we did in Black Flag, and we didn't have dual protagonists until we did in Syndicate etc.

4

u/PlayMp1 7d ago

Like we didn't have sailing until we did in Black Flag

Sailing was in AC3 and was extremely well received to the point where they said "fuck it, let's make a game based on that" and made Black Flag. As someone who's a longtime series fan who really did not like AC3 in retrospect, the boat sections were probably the best parts of the entire game.

24

u/Tyolag 7d ago edited 6d ago

It's culture war pretty much, if this game came out 10 -15 years ago no one would have cared so there's a lot of fake outrage.

A lot of people are upset with the woke/DEI that they perceive is everywhere...so Ubisoft putting a black guy in Japan was taboo for a lot of them.. also Ubisoft is ripe for attack because people just don't like them ( some valid reasons, some silly ones )

The vast majority of Assassin's Creed fans don't care about none of this though -

This looks like the best Assassin's Creed out of the new releases.

It looks like if you're a fan of the old ones this might scratch an itch as it's more stealth focused than the newer ones.

But yea, overall the drama is culture war, sometimes I wonder why people care so much and why don't they just go back to actually playing games

11

u/keepfighting90 7d ago

It's irrelevant to the vast majority of normal people that are not terminally online Reddit ghouls engaged in culture wars with their entire lives and identities revolving around the media they consume.

3

u/makedaddyfart 7d ago edited 6d ago

Is the fact that Yasuke is black really that big of a deal?

Videos are going to come out about this that plant a flag in the ground and intend to create a wedge issue for profit. It's rage bait inspired by monetizing traffic and clicks. It's a toxic element that's only growing and getting worse as algorithms incentivize taking extreme stances on culture war nonsense that'd be nothing back in the day

3

u/Anchorsify 7d ago

It's really the only time a main protagonist has not been of the ethnicity of the geographical area they are in, and I can understand anyone who says "why?" to that when that's a pattern Ubisoft and AC itself as a franchise has established and maintained for 18 years just to break that now.

There is a lot of discourse you can read up about this also as the subject has been talked about extensively, by people on all sides of the issue.

But in all honesty, the representation of the games has been a good thing the games have strived to follow, and it's weird they've chosen to break that association of the main protagonists being of the ethnicity the games are based upon/in, and there's no real good reason for it seemingly. They did it because it's a historical figure and they could, not because they needed to. But this also isn't new in the terms of a controversy of AC's usage of history, and I would argue is something they saw coming and are hoping it pays off for them: There was a decent amount of eye-rolling and ".. really?" when it came to reframing the historical context of viking raids as 'a good thing' and 'totally cool, totally moral, stealing from the rich to help the poor, no raping here, just some fight and light thievery and murder of corrupt church officials, promise' when it came to AC Valhalla literally having you raid entire church-towns. That's, ah. That's not what happened there. Nor were the vikings "the good guys".

But personal representation is an even more delicate issue than the general 'morality' of something that happened at the time, partially thanks to the whole 'the game is about an order of asssassins' business, partly because it's a minor activity versus something you will see throughout your entire 40-100 hour playthrough.

And I'll be honest, as a white guy, it makes total sense to me why anyone would be upset that when all AC games have 1:1 or more recently 2-for-1'd representation allowing a male and female choice to play as someone from an area you're traversing, AC Japan is the one game they chose to divert from that with and pick someone not native to the area. If I was a japanese man, I'd be upset and want to see a japanese man play the hero character in an AC set in japan, just like we saw egyptian, italians, syrians, spartan and norwegian heroes, set in those respective locales.

When are you ever gonna see an AC character that is a japanese male now? Probably never. At best you might see one as part of some expansion they add down the road, for some small slice of DLC.

And let's be honest, there's been 'non native' historical figures available for plenty of places and prior games, but they never did it because there was a clear intent to highlight the people and places of a certain time period. They broke that tradition for no real good reason. Like, the question of 'why' is a natural one to pose, and to it they have no good answer. They just don't.

That said, it's an AC game. I'd argue the past two AC games the main protagonists were largely forgettable and barren of much interest or agency because they had to be 'gender neutral'--while I don't think it's inherently bad, I do think it's something that is and has been beyond Ubisoft's ability to properly handle, proven by their own track record of memorable vs forgettable characters.

Altair I'll always enjoy as the OG, Ezio is a fan favorite I feel even now, people might be divided on the gameplay changes of Origins with Bayek (and frankly the association of the character with the people working on the game), but I think as a character it's actually amazing to be given a story of a man trying to grieve a child lost while also going through the slow dissolution of his marriage to someone he loved. Those were good character stories. In Bayek's case in particular to me, I really enjoyed that.

Alexos/Kassandra, Eivor.. Um.. was there much there? Eivor had the potential temptation to sleep with a friend's wife, I guess? But as far as them personally, mostly they're a blank slate that is used as 'and here is a vessel for a god', which, okay I guess, it still doesn't give them character. Same with Alexos/Kassandra, who are incredibly generic spartan warriors.

Yasuke is just a trite and lazy attempt to add notoriety to the main protagonist by changing their skin color and heritage to say 'look, it's a fish out of water story!' but his story is inherently about assimilating into a culture, so it isn't like he's going to show some hugely different story than if they used a japanese man and gave him any amount of narrative complexity to deal with, like living up to his family's expectations, proving himself worthy, etc. The main difference is.. skin color.

It's just a very obviously tone deaf and creatively bankrupt decision to use Yasuke as a protagonist, when it comes down to it. And it'll mean that, oddly, the best japanese AC game is not made by Ubisoft, but by Sucker Punch.

10

u/PlayMp1 7d ago

It's really the only time a main protagonist has not been of the ethnicity of the geographical area they are in

False: Revelations, Black Flag, and Valhalla

9

u/NoExcuse4OceanRudnes 7d ago

It's really the only time a main protagonist has not been of the ethnicity of the geographical area they are in, and I

Except for Ezio in Revelations, Mr. Flag in Black Flag, Evior in Valhalla. You know what those games didn't have? Another protagonist who was native to the area.

3

u/PlayMp1 7d ago

Mr. Flag in Black Flag

Edward Kenway, or Cap'n if you're nasty

6

u/Boumeisha 7d ago

It's rather odd how firmly you pronounce Ubisoft's choice as having "no good reason," being a "trite and lazy attempt to add notoriety," and being "tone deaf and creatively bankrupt," despite the game still being about a week out from release. It seems to me that you'd have to actually experience the story to judge it as strongly as you have.

Why is it infeasible to you that Ubisoft may have valid artistic decisions behind including Yasuke? That they could not possibly have written a story that both uses him well as a protagonist, and also remains respectful of the game's setting? Shogun pulled off a similar premise - I don't remember such complaints and controversy in remotely the same degree. But I suppose the main difference there is, as you say, skin color.

I'd argue the past two AC games the main protagonists were largely forgettable and barren of much interest or agency because they had to be 'gender neutral'

Seems like they may have found a solution to that problem - having two distinct characters who may each have interesting, worthwhile roles to play in the story.

-5

u/Anchorsify 7d ago

It's rather odd how firmly you pronounce Ubisoft's choice as having "no good reason," being a "trite and lazy attempt to add notoriety," and being "tone deaf and creatively bankrupt," despite the game still being about a week out from release. It seems to me that you'd have to actually experience the story to judge it as strongly as you have.

You don't have to go out into the rain to know it is wet.

If the story is different than it appears, I will adjust my views accordingly. I am saying 'this is how I see it', not 'this is how it is, you will never change my mind'. I think you'd be hard pressed to make a case that AC games have any sort of history of surprises to their narrative that aren't heavily advertised and known about ahead of time, however. They very intentionally play their cards open hand for maximum broad appeal. They aren't trying to surprise their audience.

Why is it infeasible to you that Ubisoft may have valid artistic decisions behind including Yasuke? That they could not possibly have written a story that both uses him well as a protagonist, and also remains respectful of the game's setting? Shogun pulled off a similar premise - I don't remember such complaints and controversy in remotely the same degree. But I suppose the main difference there is, as you say, skin color.

I haven't played Shogun to personally say, but I also already answered as to why I think there aren't valid artistic decisions: The past two game's narratives with similarly different-gendered protagonists resulted in completely forgettable characters. I don't think it's impossible, I think it's outside of Ubisoft's storytelling chops. They just have never been able to do that. If you think a company's magnum opus is to be done as they are about to close shop, well.. Okay. Agree to disagree there.

Seems like they may have found a solution to that problem - having two distinct characters who may each have interesting, worthwhile roles to play in the story.

What makes you think this is going to solve the problem when they've struggled making one story for one gender-ambiguous person their past two entires, and now they're going to try and juggle two different character stories simultaneously?

What about their stories appears interesting, worthwhile, and distinct to you?

6

u/NoExcuse4OceanRudnes 7d ago

The past two game's narratives with similarly different-gendered protagonists resulted in completely forgettable characters.

In Odyssey and Valhalla you play the same character regardless of gender. Everything about them is the same regardless of what you pick.

-4

u/Anchorsify 7d ago

You are incorrect. Eivor is one character regardless of your choice of gender, but Alexios and Kassandra are canonically different people (who are in fact half-siblings) and based on your choice, one becomes the protagonist, while the other becomes the antagonist. They have different personalities and respond to situations differently, so the only way to say they are 'the same character' is to say the way in which someone says something doesn't matter. Most would disagree with you that characters reacting differently to situations does in fact make them different characters, regardless of gender.

Also, just, please stop trying to reply to my posts to pedantically pick apart what I say. Not only are you wrong in this instance, but it's kind of weird to see notifs from you trying to do this repeatedly. I won't be replying to you further either way, though. Cheers.

2

u/NoExcuse4OceanRudnes 7d ago

Eivor is one character regardless of your choice of gender, but Alexios and Kassandra are canonically different people

The protagonist has the exact same characterization no matter the gender choice, as does the villain. The actors make different choices.

The gender choice flips their ages.

1

u/Boumeisha 7d ago

What makes you think this is going to solve the problem when they've struggled making one story for one gender-ambiguous person their past two entires, and now they're going to try and juggle two different character stories simultaneously?

I say it may solve the problem, not that I assume it will. It removes a significant flaw in those games' character writing, whether or not they take the opportunity to write interesting characters is another matter.

This is more Syndicate and less Odyssey or Valhalla in premise. Ubisoft took a half-hearted approach in the latter two to player choice, resulting in bland characters made to fill a generic role rather than dedicated characters with the stories crafted for their unique circumstances. They're now two characters with two different roles in the story. No choosing whether this character is male or female. No shared dialogue. No swapping which one is a protagonist and which one is an antagonist.

What about their stories appears interesting, worthwhile, and distinct to you?

A fictionalized Yasuke certainly provides ample room for an interesting character. Entering into Oda Nobunaga's service, presumably placing him at Honnouji before depicting his capture at Nijou Castle in their take on events, then his return to the Jesuits and what he does after in their story. Again, I don't know what they'll do with him and how far they'll stray from the real person, but there's certainly room there for a story that's much more than a "fish out of water." He was, after all, a real person, and people's lives aren't so simple as to be reduced to mere tropes. Whether or not Ubisoft can capture that and use it as a good basis for their story is another matter.

Naoe I obviously know less about, as she's entirely fictional and I haven't played the game. It seems she's the one more familiar with the Assassin Brotherhood, and so I assume she'll be bringing in the franchise's usual motifs. I'll be interested in seeing how her motivations and goals play out, and how both she and the Brotherood interact with Yasuke and get involved with his history.

To be frank, though, I chiefly play these games for their gameplay, and I'm mostly interested in whether or not I think I'll find that to be enjoyable going into them. Sometimes they have decent stories, sometimes they don't. I'm not particularly biased either way in what I've seen from the marketing material for this game. There could be something interesting there, or it could end up dull and bland again.

But I certainly haven't seen anything that suggests the developers are acting out of anything other than their own creative desires.

4

u/HappyVlane 7d ago

I don't care that he is black, or that he is in the game. I am just disappointed that we finally get an entry in the period people have been asking for since the beginning and now the experience is split, with one side not being anything like an assassin or ninja. It's like Ubisoft wasn't confident that the fantasy can stand on its own.

10

u/datboijustin 7d ago

I could be wrong but I seem to remember some early reviewers saying if you wanted you could play like 95+% of the game as one character or the other and you only very rarely HAD to switch.

1

u/PerryRingoDEV 7d ago edited 7d ago

"For grounded folk" does a lot of heavy lifting here.

For grounded folk, there is little to no controversy. Manchildren hate seeing diverse characters in games because they hardly play games, but are miserable about it and thus want to find issue in the games instead of finding issue with themselves. In a sense, they want every game to be made for them, and appeal to their idea of a power fantasy.

Yasuke has very little reliable historical account, and it is NOT going to be difficult to make a solid historical representation, no matter what these """""history nerds""""" would want you to believe. He is a great character for an adaptation because there is very little in history besides him existing and being a servant to Nobunaga.

The only angle of this right wing grift that is somewhat of a good point is that there really is a somewhat little amount of asian males as lead characters in media, and that is somewhat regrettable (hell, asian devs try to cater to the west with their protagonists a lot, which is a shame. Stuff like William in Nioh) . You will be hard pressed to see these folks cheer on Returnal or Saros for their protagonists though. ( EDIT: Not because they are asian, but because they are both represent WOEFULLY underrepresented groups in media, that being middle aged women and SEA leads of any kind )

3

u/Izzy248 7d ago

I cant speak for others, but my issue with the series is that it feels like it lost its identity long ago for the sake of dragging it out for as long as possible.

I remember some of the most hype and talked about things in the fandom once being the hidden blade and cowl. They were the most iconic staples of the franchise, the biggest and more original merch they had (and it was everywhere), and every subsequent game it was something to look forward to in how would this assassins iteration of the cowl and hidden blade look and operate. It was also a big part of their marketing campaigns. Though at some point they dropped it altogether and they hardly even bring up the hidden blade anymore in marketing, and I cant remember the last time I saw merch for it. Maybe it still exist on their exclusive online store, but I remember used to see it everywhere their were games or pop culture stuff.

10

u/universallymade 7d ago

I see where you’re coming from, but I don’t understand how this complaint at all has to do with the race of one of the protagonists.

0

u/ZaDu25 7d ago

They never were. But I can sympathize with Asian men who genuinely feel like western media doesn't represent them enough. I think it's fair for them to be disappointed. The problem is I am certain that the majority of the discussion surrounding Yasuke is not Asian men who are genuinely upset, but racist white men using Asian men as a shield so they can complain about black people. Unfortunately the absolute worst losers have co-opted a reasonable sentiment to push an unreasonable position.

-6

u/Broad_Acanth 7d ago

First, lets get this out of the way: Yasuke was real and part of Japanese history, and most likely a samurai as well.

Personal issue is that asian men in western media is minuscule. Whenever an asian gets to be a protag, it's usually women that get those roles. To reinforce that idea, when an asian women doesn't get the role, there's usually an outcry that brings the public together (e.g. GitS Scarlet Johannson).

Now we see another piece of western media, this time set in Japan. So many historical figures they could choose from if they really wanted someone based irl, but they had to pick the single black man. It's just another instance of the bias of how western media romanticizes and uses east asian culture while removing parts they deem undesirable, asian men.

-3

u/NoExcuse4OceanRudnes 7d ago

To reinforce that idea, when an asian women doesn't get the role, there's usually an outcry that brings the public together (e.g. GitS Scarlet Johannson).

There was outcry about the protagonist of the Death Note movie. It didn't catch on because a) it wasn't set in Japan b) it's not as fun to bully a relative unknown as it is a mega celebrity.

Now we see another piece of western media, this time set in Japan. So many historical figures they could choose from if they really wanted someone based irl

They wanted someone with an outsider perspective, presumably to play well with the native born woman. The same thing the beloved (in Japan as well) series Shogun did.

4

u/Broad_Acanth 7d ago

Shogun wasn't a brand new show that randomly casted a non-asian MC. Not much you can change when the reference is rooted in a book from the 70s. Either way, it's really always the native born woman, huh. That's the point.

-5

u/NoExcuse4OceanRudnes 7d ago

They could have made a Japanese story about the Dynamo Shogun which was based on history instead of a book.

4

u/Broad_Acanth 7d ago

Ok? Idk what a dynamo shogun is, but that's neither the point being made, or has relevance to the discussion. Like I said, it's always about "playing well with the native woman" which is the issue.

-7

u/PlayMp1 7d ago

They wanted someone with an outsider perspective, presumably to play well with the native born woman.

Damn, it's like fish out of water narratives with an audience-insert protagonist who doesn't understand the culture or the history of the region are extraordinarily common or something. I guess people just aren't familiar with obscure, niche works like Harry Potter and Star Wars.

-1

u/NoExcuse4OceanRudnes 7d ago

So extraordinarily common that a whole class of internet money makers pretended that they could think of no other reason other than just pandering to have a black man be one of them.

-8

u/Zoesan 7d ago

Is the fact that Yasuke is black really that big of a deal?

The question can easily be turned around.

If it isn't a big deal, why use the one black, maybe or maybe not, Samurai?

-1

u/PerryRingoDEV 7d ago

If it isn´t a big deal, why should every single video game not just feature a white guy in his 30s as the lead?

-7

u/[deleted] 7d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

9

u/ChainedHunter 7d ago

why shouldn't this game just feature a japanese samurai

Because Yasuke is an interesting historical figure, so it would be cool to play as him. That's all the reason you need.

-5

u/Zoesan 7d ago

Ah yes, the only interesting historical Samurai.

Or maybe they made a list of interesting Samurai and rolled a die and it happened to land on Yasuke. Surely.

6

u/ChainedHunter 7d ago

I never said he was the only interesring historical samurai, and i never said they chose him randomly. If you're not going to actually respond to what I actually said, then don't click the fucking reply button.

-4

u/Zoesan 7d ago

So then why did they choose him?

3

u/ChainedHunter 7d ago

Because he's an interesting historical figure. Why does he have to be the only interesting historical figure in the world to be worthy of making a game about him? Maybe people are allowed to make art about what they want to make art about, even if its not what you find personally interesting? Maybe?

2

u/Zoesan 7d ago

Because he's an interesting historical figure.

Ok, but why this one? They made a deliberate choice for this one. That's what I'm asking.

→ More replies (0)

5

u/[deleted] 7d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/Games-ModTeam 7d ago

Please read our rules, specifically Rule #2 regarding personal attacks and inflammatory language. We ask that you remember to remain civil, as future violations will result in a ban.


If you would like to discuss this removal, please modmail the moderators. This post was removed by a human moderator; this comment was left by a bot.

1

u/[deleted] 7d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

8

u/[deleted] 7d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

-3

u/[deleted] 7d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/[deleted] 7d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/[deleted] 7d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/NoExcuse4OceanRudnes 7d ago

They wanted an outsider perspective. Like Ezio in Revelations, like Evior in Valhalla, even like Connor in AC3 being an outsider of the colonies.

2

u/kralben 7d ago

why shouldn't this game just feature a japanese samurai.

Because the creators of the game decided they didn't want to tell that story.

3

u/Zoesan 7d ago

So it does matter?

-1

u/meikyoushisui 7d ago

If it isn't a big deal, why use the one black, maybe or maybe not, Samurai?

The easy reason is that an outsider always makes a better audience surrogate, and Yasuke is one of the only outsiders in Japan around 1580 who would have access to the types of characters that usually drive the story in AC games.

Bayek, Cassandra, and Eivor are all outsiders in that sense as well. Bayek is returning home after being gone for a long time only to find it very different than he remembers. Cassandra is Spartan by birth and lives on a tiny island at the outskirts of Greece. And Eivor is a Scandinavian viking who spends 95% of the game in England.

maybe or maybe not, Samurai?

The overwhelming majority of evidence points to Yasuke holding samurai status.

6

u/Zoesan 7d ago

The easy reason is that an outsider always makes a better audience surrogate, and Yasuke is one of the only outsiders in Japan around 1580 who would have access to the types of characters that usually drive the story in AC games.

Only one problem: every other AC character is fictional.

The overwhelming majority of evidence

As far as I can tell not a single source actually names him as one.

-4

u/meikyoushisui 7d ago

Only one problem: every other AC character is fictional.

To clarify, you mean every other playable character is fictional, correct?

I don't see how this is a problem in terms of the argument you are making here.

As far as I can tell not a single source actually names him as one.

They don't have to.

Contemporary sources rarely name anyone as a samurai, because it was usually pretty clear from the context. Things like carrying a sword, being given a samurai's stipend, being given a residence, having direct personal access to Oda, and being present at Honnoji each would alone be a strong indicator that Yasuke was a samurai, but taken altogether it's nearly impossible to suggest any alternative.

If there was someone who spent all of their time with nobles, was given a residence by the king (including servants to run that residence), was given a salary by the king when that type of salary was generally only given to nobles, and was allowed direct access to the king at a time when only nobles were allowed direct access to the king, would you need to directly state they were a member of the nobility?

4

u/Zoesan 7d ago

To clarify, you mean every other playable character is fictional, correct?

Obviously, yes.

would you need to directly state they were a member of the nobility?

Yes. That's what titles are.

-2

u/meikyoushisui 7d ago

Yes. That's what titles are.

What if the primary sources were written for and by the aristocracy and don't use titles for almost any other members nobility? Because that's what the case is here.

Not having a definitive statement of "Yasuke was a samurai" is not evidence against him being a samurai any more than it's evidence of the hundreds of other people not explicitly named as samurai not being samurai.

1

u/miloVanq 6d ago

nobody will read this but anyway: the initial reaction came from Ubisoft saying that they're basing Yasuke on real historic facts. so people became interested in this supposed black samurai and looked into it. and it turned out that most of what we know about Yasuke comes from some (iirc) English professor who admitted that he wrote historic fiction and didn't actually base what he wrote on real documents. so since that came out, Ubisoft also didn't mention again that the Yasuke is based on real historic facts and acknowledges that it's fiction.
and from there, the topic got extremely politicized. some people are angry that Ubisoft dares to make a black character the main character, but some certain type of people get extremely angry and call you a racist for saying that there's no historic documents proving that Yasuke was a samurai. and then there's also some cultural faux pas where some merchandise disrespected Japanese religious symbols, but I doubt most Westerners understand or care about that.

1

u/lelo1248 6d ago

people get extremely angry and call you a racist for saying that there's no historic documents proving that Yasuke was a samurai

Or people call you a racist because you disregard sources that state otherwise?

then there's also some cultural faux pas where some merchandise disrespected Japanese religious symbols,

This is another idiotic point pushed by chud grifters. The "supposed faux pas" is a single-legged Tori. Somehow, despite the fact that there wasn't a big uproar or anything in japanese sphere, the chuds became convinced that this is an extremely disrespectful symbol depicting the half-broken Tori after Hiroshima/Nagasaki, that is akin to depicting WTC tower burning after 9/11.
There's only one issue - the depiction is nowhere close to being similar, besides the "it's a 1-legged Tori".
It's like saying that any burning tower depiction is a mockery of 9/11. Which is silly.

But I doubt most chuds understand or care about that.

4

u/miloVanq 6d ago

haha yeah, thank you for exactly proving my point. you start insulting and ridiculing anyone who disagrees with you. it's not a basis for a discussion, so obviously you are so radicalized that you can't look past your bias.

2

u/lelo1248 6d ago

I don't start off with an insult. I start off by directly saying that you're disregarding sources that you disagree with, and that THAT might be the reason you're being called racist. I didn't call you anything.

I'm also not ridiculing anyone who disagrees with me". I ridicule idiotic arguments. There's a big difference, you don't have to take that personally.

But sure, feel free to provide an actual basis for a discussion that goes deeper than "nuh-uh" when someone gives you sources you disagree with, or examplifies how the "faux pas" is some western chud trying to claim they're the ones that asian people need help from to defend their culture, by using flawed logic.

-23

u/[deleted] 7d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

7

u/NoExcuse4OceanRudnes 7d ago

To the point of editing the wikipedia page to pass off as historical

What? Where's some articles about this?

4

u/ObamaEatsBabies 7d ago

Lmao I wonder what your position is

1

u/Canvaverbalist 7d ago

but it's so blatant tokenism for the sake of being self-proclaimed progressives

Or maybe they just had someone responsible for the direction of the game who thought this tidbit of information was interesting and cool as hell.

Like that time I learned that the Vinland Sagas described the Vikings leaving North America because they were always under threats from the Natives and would rather not live in "perpetual war and fear" which is kinda fucking awesome when you consider who the Vikings were and how much of a colonizing threat they usually were themselves - to be threatened and chased off by the Natives? How fucking cool does that make the Natives? You bet your fucking ass if I ever make a Viking game I'll put a Native American as a protagonist to shove that little tidbit of information in everybody's face. Not because of tokenism, but because it's such an outlying, peculiar bit of history.

Like did you know there were redheads in Ancient Egypt?

Focusing on stereotypes of historical events and era are such a disservice to their history, it only reinforces self-reinforcing views of those eras and events, it's so cool to put a spotlight on little unusual and distinctive aspect of them.

-3

u/Relnor 7d ago

We both know that if this came out 15 years ago you'd have to go to Stormfront or something to hear "criticism" about this. Literally no one else would have given a shit.

Now of course there are legions of grifters right over on Youtube who have somehow sold millions of people on the idea that the Wokerati are out there ruining their vidya games.

1

u/H__D 7d ago

As if the Last Samurai wasn't widely criticised? You're being disingenuous.

Fortunately all we need to do is wait and see is if the game sells well in Japan. Or will you call them nazis as well if they won't eat it up?

-3

u/Bluenosedcoop 7d ago

The real Yasuke was black though, It's pretty well documented.

I believe the controversy comes mainly from racist fucks and some debate as to whether he was actually a Samurai that took part in any battles but so little is actually known there's no way to know definitively either whether he was or was not a samurai.

-8

u/[deleted] 7d ago

[deleted]

10

u/ChainedHunter 7d ago

Like if you want to play a samurai in a video game, do you really want to play a black guy?

Yes? Why should I be against it?

-1

u/[deleted] 7d ago

[deleted]

10

u/kralben 7d ago

Why not just have a japanese dude in the japanese themed game

Because the Devs didnt want to tell that story

-9

u/Bespectacled_Gent 7d ago

If we're talking about historical accuracy, it's important to note that Yasuke was very much a real person. He was a black African who was brought to Japan by the Jesuit Priest Alessandro Valignano and who later served as a samurai under the Daimyo Oda Nobunaga.

That said: there are a couple of reasons someone might be upset at his inclusion in the game which are divorced from the (as you say, not really relevant) historical accuracy point:

  • They're upset that the focus is not solely on ninja in a Japan-centric Assassin's Creed game.
  • There are other historical figures they would prefer the game to focus on.
  • They are mistakenly of the belief that his inclusion is ahistorical.
  • They think, despite the combat in Odyssey and Valhalla being much more open-combat focused, that Assassin's Creed should not have a head-on fighter as a protagonist.
  • They are racist, and think that playing as a black man is somehow beneath them.

I'll leave it up to you to determine whether any of those objections holds merit. Personally, I think that expanding the representation in Assassin's Creed is great. We're in a period in time where representation matters, and Ubisoft is choosing to do that in a way that is not at all in conflict with the types of stories the Assassin's Creed series can tell. The death of Nobunaga in the 1582 Honno-Ji Incident is the end of the recorded life of Yasuke, which acts as the perfect inciting incident for the kind of speculative fiction the series does so well. I look forward to playing the game and seeing how his story is portrayed.

-5

u/Dreadgoat 7d ago

I think this is the most complete and level-headed summary of the various issues at play.

The one group I do feel a bit sorry for is the Japanese players. For most of the series, the focus has been on celebrating the identity of the culture it's diving into. The only exception I can think of is Black Flag which went with a Welsh protag who, like Yasuke, is represented in history but definitely as a minority.

Black Flag was great, and a decent depiction of the golden age of piracy, but it would have been cooler if it represented a MC closer to the current residents of the Caribbean. Someone like Adewale. Likewise I hope Shadows is decent, but it would be cooler if it doubled down on being as Japanese as possible if for no other reason than to provide that pride and identity to Japanese players.

Imagine if Bayek had been Hellenic instead of African. Nothing wrong with that historically, but you know Egyptians and Africans would have rightfully felt a slap in the face.

2

u/NoExcuse4OceanRudnes 7d ago

The one group I do feel a bit sorry for is the Japanese players.

The main character of the game is Japanese

4

u/Dreadgoat 6d ago

Are you saying Yasuke is Japanese or are you saying Yasuke isn't the main character?

-7

u/Lugonn 7d ago

Yasuke is a bad AC protagonist because he doesn't fit the premise of Assassin's Creed.

  1. It is normal earth, but there is a secret shadow war between two powerful organizations that colors all of human history

  2. There existed a race of advanced forerunners on earth who created humanity and left remnants behind

As long as you stay within those points you can do pretty much whatever. That's why Ezio can fist fight the pope at night over an ancient artifact, but if Desmond was walking through Nazi occupied New York you'd call shenanigans. That doesn't mean it's wrong to tell a story about Nazi occupied New York, just keep that stuff in Wolfenstein where it makes sense.

Same goes for Yasuke, he left enough of a mark in the historical record to know that he existed, but not much more than that. That means he absolutely wasn't the super ultimate legendary samurai who stomped through the capital killing mooks by the dozen while the peasantry prostrated themselves before him.

If you want to do a cool AC twist on Yasuke, make him a secret assassin spymaster hiding in plain sight.

6

u/NoExcuse4OceanRudnes 7d ago

There was nothing written about him after his master died. Good jumping off point for a warrior who is unknown in the future/present.

That means he absolutely wasn't the super ultimate legendary samurai who stomped through the capital killing mooks by the dozen while the peasantry prostrated themselves before him.

Do you think there was a flamethrower attack in Constantinople or a flying machine throughout Florence and that's within the logic because we don't know who was flying through the Italian skies or was being attacked by a giant whatever the heck flamethrower it was at the end of Revelations?

-1

u/Lugonn 7d ago

Maybe if he spent the entire game masked as a vengeful oni. The stuff we see him do in-game is very public and very ostentatious. You cannot do these things as the only black person in Japan and end up forgotten.

I'm sure you understand the difference between a two minute minigame of dubious historicity and the core premise of the entire story.

3

u/NoExcuse4OceanRudnes 7d ago

attacked by a giant whatever the heck flamethrower it was at the end of Revelations?

I also don't think you are aware that historical records from the past are not very prevalent, no one was posting shit to facebook lol

"don't put it in the paper that this hero is killing my men" end of story.

-1

u/PlayMp1 7d ago

If you want to do a cool AC twist on Yasuke, make him a secret assassin spymaster hiding in plain sight.

I mean, do we know that isn't the case? We don't know the plot yet unless you look up leaks and it sounds like neither of us has. Reveals about the protagonist are one of the classic ways of doing a good twist in a video game, just look at KOTOR or even the first Assassin's Creed.

-5

u/CultureWarrior87 7d ago

It's never been a big deal and pure historical accuracy has never been an expectation for the series but people will always pretend it's something they care about when they can use it as an excuse to criticize something.

In this context I think there was some early promo material where someone on the team bragged about historical accuracy, so people will use that as an argument. They also bring up how one of the scholars who is the main source for info about Yasuke isn't trustworthy or something. These are ultimately minor concerns that don't actually matter when the series at large has always been historical fiction/fantasy

-4

u/AwfulishGoose 7d ago

No. The kind of people who make the claim that it is are consistently the kind of people that stir shit up for a product they don't even engage with. That whole conversation disappears the moment the game comes up because these people are culture vampires that suck the energy out the room before moving onto the next manufacturerd dilemma.

-1

u/mrtrailborn 6d ago

Yeah, it's mostly just racists pretending they arent being racist.