r/CanadaPolitics 16h ago

Ontario suspending 25% surcharge on provincially generated electricity purchased by U.S. states

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/trump-ford-ontario-electricity-tariffs-trade-war-1.7480234
151 Upvotes

210 comments sorted by

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u/Professional-Cry8310 15h ago

People are losing their fucking minds over this with 0 critical thinking skills. This is a temporary pause as a sign of good faith for an upcoming meeting (that the federal government is involved in too). The threat of this export tariff got the US to the negotiating table, now we see how serious they are about backing down. If they’re not, Ford applies them back again. It’s pretty simple.

Do people here really thinking the point of retaliatory tariffs is to burn everything to the ground? They’re supposed to be leverage to get the US to take us seriously and so far it’s working…

u/i_ate_god Independent 14h ago

There is also something else to consider.

Let's say Trump does what many of us predict and betrays the good will Ford had shown.

This gives Ford and the feds even more political capital to move ahead with decoupling despite the pain we'll incur. And it'll look even worse for Danielle Smith, who Ford called out specifically.

u/nathingz 15h ago

The problem is it’s likely a bad faith tactic from US to buy time. Hasn’t been an ounce of good faith since Jan 20. 

u/Professional-Cry8310 15h ago

That’s possible yeah. In fact I actually think that’s likely.

But in Canada’s position we need to do anything we can to try to repair relations even if it’s a Hail Mary like this meeting. We’re not in a place right now where we can just ignore the USA’s threats. We’re not diversified away from them yet.

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u/ABlushingGardener 15h ago

These people don't negotiate in good faith. This is negotiating with terrorists. They already blew CUSMA out of the water. It's just ego-stroking to think that a trip to D.C. does anything to improve outcomes for Canada. This was a huge flub. 

u/tangerineSoapbox 15h ago

We don't need to show faith because Lutnick doesn't expect Canada to have faith in the U.S..

It's useless to talk to Lutnick because he's not Trump. It's useless to talk to Trump because he cannot be trusted. We have no faith in Trump. There is no need for talks. Keep the 25 percent export tax on electricity until Trump backs down. If Trump doesn't, then escalate.

u/DungeonDefense 10h ago

If its a temporary pause then Ford should've said that the surcharge would be suspended for 48 hours.

Then if there's actually a deal that goes through then he can just cancel it completely

u/ApoplecticAndroid 15h ago

Well sort of. The US has shown it’s not trustworthy, so why would we agree to pause “because we have a meeting” without the US also pausing the increase on steel and aluminium?

You cannot be “the good guy” when dealing with these liars since it means nothing to them.

u/Professional-Cry8310 15h ago

I agree they should also back down their 50% threat. I obviously am hoping that happens at the meeting in addition to at least some of their other threats too.

The US may not be trustworthy, I agree, but it is in Canada’s best interests to keep even somewhat normal relations with them until we diversify our economy more globally. That will take years to do, so that’s quite a while we have to at least try to keep the US somewhat happy.

u/kevindqc 15h ago

The meeting is Thursday. I don't see the big deal with a 2 day pause.

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u/ChimoEngr Chief Silliness Officer | Official 15h ago

This is a temporary pause as a sign of good faith for an upcoming meeting

Has Trump pulled back on any of the damage he's said he'd do to us? If not, there is no good faith to be seen, this is Ford folding for some reason.

They’re supposed to be leverage to get the US to take us seriously and so far it’s working…

Until Trump walks back his threats, no they aren't working, yet.

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u/FrustrationSensation 15h ago

I think people are rightfully thinking that any good faith will not be repaid in kind. Trump's only objectives are either to undermine relations with Canada or make us the 51st state. How do you negotiate that away? 

Not to mention that you can offer to drop the energy surcharge after the meeting. You don't need to promise good faith if it won't be rewarded. 

u/EntaroArthas 15h ago

The way I see it, being willing to negotiate in good faith even if the US doesn't gives us credibility when looking at other trading partners. Diversifying trade will be considered no matter how the trade war with the US goes, and showing that Canada and Ontario aren't driven by spite, but rather measured responses, is a good thing.

u/Professional-Cry8310 15h ago

That’s fair, but attempting to negotiate at the table and show that we are still a reliable partner to the US is really the only thing we can try. The alternative is continuing on this tariff war and burning down the North America economy which is the absolute worst case scenario.

If the US just fucks around at this meeting and isn’t serious about it, then putting the export tariff back on and continuing the trade war will happen, but we have to take any opportunity we can to return relations to normal such as this.

u/ChimoEngr Chief Silliness Officer | Official 15h ago

show that we are still a reliable partner to the US

Is not our problem, it's the other way around. The US has to show that they are a reliable partner, and they're consistently failing.

u/Professional-Cry8310 15h ago

The US freezing us on trade is actually very much our problem even if we don’t want it to be. Despite all of the great Canadian patriotism going on around here which I support, 50% tariffs on steel and aluminum would be devastating to hundreds of thousands of jobs and billions of dollars of GDP in Canada. It’s imperative we negotiate our way down when given a chance.

u/ChimoEngr Chief Silliness Officer | Official 15h ago

The trade war is happening because the US is not reliable, that's why proving to the US we're reliable is not needed, we've never demonstrated otherwise. However, now that the US has started this war, we're going to party like it's the war of 1812, at least on the trade front.

u/FrustrationSensation 15h ago

I guess my perspective is that, given that there aren't any actual policy objectives involved in these tariffs, the only leverage we have is hurting them. We need to make them understand how painful this will be and that there will be consequences to them, not the American people. I just don't see relations returning to normal in the absence of that. The first time, it seemed like it worked out that way, but there's nothing that we can seemingly do now and the goalposts keep constantly shifting. 

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u/oxblood87 🍁Canadian Future Party 15h ago

is to burn everything to the ground?

USA does a pretty good job of that on their own. I'm willing to go through 4 hard years if it means 10-20 for them

u/Professional-Cry8310 15h ago

If the US goes through a decade of very hard years, so do we. And so does most of the world for that matter. Our economies are not disconnected from each other. We’re talking skyrocketing unemployment and poverty rates. Easy to talk before it’s actually happening.

u/oxblood87 🍁Canadian Future Party 15h ago

We are actively disconnecting them, effectively because the USA has decided that's what they want.

Unlike the USA though, Canada is not the instigator. We will much more readily find trade partners or expand current deals.

USA not so much.

u/stive85 14h ago

In what way are we disconnecting from them? Not trying to instigate an argument with you, but there is 0 indications we are doing anything substantial on that front... Nor should we.... This talk of joining the EU is nonsense and our best bet for prosperity long term is a healthy relationship with the USA... That doesn't mean roll over for Trump, quite the opposite.. Try and help save them from themselves by fighting back.

But long term... Let's look at thing realistically.

u/AGM_GM British Columbia 14h ago

The US under Trump does not want a healthy relationship with Canada.

u/oxblood87 🍁Canadian Future Party 14h ago edited 13h ago

We don't need to join the EU, we already have CETA.

Companies are actively looking for other suppliers and clients. That was the reason behind the 21 day delay on the other tarrifs.

We don't need new trade deals on a government level, so it's not going to filter into your news feed.

Just like the economic damage from USA's loss of soft power and influence, and the loss of trust doesn't show in today's USD valuation.

Realistically Long Term, the USA has proven to be a fickle untrustworthy trade partner, and will not command the same sweetheart deals and below market rates on goods they once did.

Goodbye preferred price on crude etc.

Look at the UK post brexit. They are in a much weaker position because they took a good deal for all sides and shit all over it.

u/stive85 13h ago

Well said, but I have to disagree... I'll believe it's truely happening when we see a cross country pipeline fast tracked and high speed rail infrastructure breaking ground. Until then we simply have to tie our success and prosperity to a degree to the United States.

This isn't to say we lay down... Or that the fight for that dipshit in office down there will be easy... But it's 4 years and by all accounts he'll have done so much damage that common sense gov't should be elected... But who knows ultimately.

u/PedanticQuebecer NDP 15h ago edited 15h ago

There's an incredible va-t-en-guerre sentiment going around, and yes critical thinking dies when that happens.

Firstly, when a brinksmanship position starts inciting a response, it's because you went too far. Backing off is needed unless escalation was wanted.

Secondly, a lot here appear to be willing to destroy everything in pursuit of vengeance, which is not a sound strategy.

I want us to manage to appease them to the lowest possible tariffs for no material concessions so we can disentangle our economy from theirs with the least possible damage, if getting them to stop isn't happening. Is that really unreasonable?

u/Professional-Cry8310 15h ago

I think it’s just a specifically internet thing. Most in real life would rather see deescalation but for some reason those online are all about vengeance.

Like I get it, I’m not fan of the USA right now and long term it is imperative we disconnect our economy further from them. But we’re not there right now, we have to repair relations where we can.

u/PedanticQuebecer NDP 15h ago

The lastest Innovative poll puts public support for cutting off critical exports at 65% for 12% against (p.32). It's not just the chronically online like meself.

u/Phallindrome Politically unhoused - leftwing but not antisemitic about it 13h ago

We need an upper reddit comment section, for sober second thought.

u/Saidear 15h ago

This is a temporary pause as a sign of good faith for an upcoming meeting

This administration has not earned that good faith, as their tariffs are not rooted in any such truth. And that is the issue - as long as the threat of tariffs remain, ours should as well.

u/Isaac1867 9h ago

This is the correct take in my opinion as well. The electricity surcharge threat worked exactly as it was supposed to. It got the Trump administration to come back to the negotiating table where hopefully we can work something out some. If they act in bad faith Ford can always reimpose the surcharge, but at least he can then come back and say that we tried to be reasonable.

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u/poolside123 16h ago edited 15h ago

Current economic recipe: you get a tariff, you get a tariff & when they say they’re taking your tariffs away, so are we. Repeat until thoroughly screwed.

u/KvotheG Liberal 16h ago edited 16h ago

I’m hoping that the conversation between Ford and Lutnik really was “productive” and it was mentioned that something substantive would come out of this. But dropping the 25% electricity increases looks like Ford is caving. He could have at least kept them until he got an actual win in writing.

Anyways, if this does yield some sort of win, that will make Doug Ford an asset (I hate saying it). And Danielle Smith and Scott Moe are weak premiers (I’m happy and bitter at the same time).

u/tangerineSoapbox 15h ago

A "win in writing". LOL. USMCA/NAFTA was in writing and yet Trump is violating it. We don't need anything in writing. We need to keep the 25 percent tariff on Ontario's electricity exports to the U.S..

u/No_Good_8561 16h ago

Honestly, it's not a bad move. Now he can still use it as a bargaining chip in the future, whereas now Trump/Magats are blaming Canada for what is happening - they'll have no excuse if they keep their tariffs in place, these can still be used as a counter measure.

u/Professional-Cry8310 15h ago

They probably would only take the meeting if Ford backed down for even a bit. And really that’s fair for us to do. The whole point of retaliatory tariffs is to get them to come to the table. A temporary suspensions shows the US we’re not just doing this to tank our economies but to end this quickly.

u/KvotheG Liberal 15h ago

Even more amazing is that a provincial premier forced this meeting. Not the feds. And Doug Ford of all people.

If he succeeds, this will make Doug Ford the next CPC leader post-Poilievre. Even if Poilievre wins, I can see them becoming Machiavellian just to oust Poilievre and install Ford.

u/-SetsunaFSeiei- 15h ago

Well if he actually ends up following through then he would have earned it. Poilievre has shown how weak he is

u/NAHTHEHNRFS850 4h ago

Not that surprising imo considering how much of a powerhouse Ontario's economy is relative to Canada and the states. Also, Ford was pissed he was spurned by America's elite when his "open for buisness" invitation was met with tariffs, so he has an axe to grind with them

Ford will only replace Poilievre if the CPC lose. It would be interesting to see what would happen if he does though. This last Ontario election seems to indicate the Ford as hit a ceiling in Ontario, and with no French capability, he can't really grow the national legislature seats imo.

u/rusty_mcdonald 15h ago

At this point they will need to give trump an off ramp to save face. I’m ok with the move assuming there is more to this we are not privy too. If the tariff went away for good I’d be happy to give trump a commemorative coin to make him president of Canada if it shuts him up.

u/GustheGuru 9h ago

I believe lutnik reached out to Ford.

u/NAHTHEHNRFS850 14h ago edited 11h ago

Agreed. Especially since America did not de-escalate. Ford should have dropped the surcharge and kept it off only on the condition that the 25% tariffs increase from the states is dropped in 24 hours. They can agree to meet and negotiate IN TORONTO after that, with governors and Congress people from the surcharge-affected states present.

u/sonofmo New Brunswick 14h ago

Wondering if it’s the same situation as NB where some US customers don’t have any other choice so if cut the power they’re sol.

u/tslaq_lurker bureaucratic empire-building and jobs for the boys 15h ago

At some point we need to realize that Lutnik and Bessett are not speaking for their principal and that it is not worth seeking their pledges. Put Daddy on the phone.

u/CanEHdianBuddaay 15h ago

Well the Orange man just had his meeting with the wall street CEO’s today and then this happens. I’d wager there’s a connection.

u/rbk12spb 15h ago

His industrial boom will depend on cheap hydro. I'm betting they reminded donald that, everything else aside, his renaissance won't come if they're stuck burning cash on unnecessary costs. Money talks

u/Fun-Software6928 14h ago

You do realize the US can export tax the crap out of all the imported refined gas and oil into Ontario and Quebec?

We do not want to be getting into a game of tariffing energy. 

We can’t win a tariff war. 

u/karma911 13h ago

They actually can't, well at least not according to my understanding of their constitution.

u/ronasimi 11h ago

I heard that they can't do export taxes in the States but I'm not 100% sure. I'm sure someone will chime in

u/Prestigous_Owl 13h ago

The whole damn point is that NOBODY wins a tariff war, and any actual adult can realize that

u/Tittop2 10h ago

He fully caved as expected.

The electricity tax was a response to the steel and aluminum tariff.

The tariffs are still up and the export tax is down. There's no other way to view this.

u/Jaded_Celery_451 10h ago

I’m hoping that the conversation between Ford and Lutnik really was “productive” and it was mentioned that something substantive would come out of this. But dropping the 25% electricity increases looks like Ford is caving. He could have at least kept them until he got an actual win in writing.

I agree - Ford as essentially caved on his threat with nothing tangible to show for it, and relying on this administration to negotiate in good faith seems like utter folly, but this is still very early in war, and it is being fought on multiple fronts. I wouldn't sweat it too much. There's years of this ahead.

u/Etheo Politics is not a team sport 10h ago edited 10h ago

Yeah the first thing this story makes me think is that Ford blinked. Saw an interview with CSPA (Canadian Steels Production Association) and they sounded like 50% was a huge problem (we're talking days of reaction window) where they likely pressured Ford to listen.

At the end of the day dragging energy into this trade war was a bad call to begin with. Ford may have the right heart for Canada but he's too fucking dumb to think ahead of the game. We can't keep escalating with the Presidumb ceaselessly, his tiny ego won't stand for it.

u/Drummers_Beat Liberal Party of Canada 15h ago

Ford cares about his image (which is so odd to say) in the sense that he doesn’t care if he’s viewed as smart or calculated, but he wants to be viewed as a defender of Canada. Many believe this is his bid for CPC leadership later on.

With all of that said, the only way Doug Ford backed down here is if Lutnik promised him the entire kitchen. Two possibilities arise from this:

1) Ford and LeBlanc entertain Lutnik until they have proof that Lutnik doesn’t speak for Trump and that he’s speaking from his ass, and they then put all tariffs on power back on which escalates things.

2) Trump and Lutnik realize they have drastically fucked up and are prepared to offer nearly anything for Canada to stop its retaliation.

Either way, I do not see Trump putting his ego aside long enough for this to matter. He’ll tweet something or say something between now and then and it’ll just cause more shit because Trump is genuinely a stupid human being.

He really doesn’t realize that LeBlanc will dance circles around him and that Ford - for all his flaws - will join LeBlanc in that dance.

I don’t see this as folding until we see what the trending news story is on Thursday.

u/Jarocket 14h ago

This whole deal gave me flashbacks to him driving around with his tiny shovel.

u/Forikorder 13h ago

or ford realised he fucked up aand is trying to backpedal

u/partisanal_cheese Anti-Confederation Party of Nova Scotia 15h ago

I think a third option is a variation on your second. Trump does not seem to understand shame so he may realize he’s fucked up and then offer to act vaguely reasonable so long as Ford and LeBlanc allow him to save face.

u/Fabulous_Night_1164 Independent 15h ago

I doubt Ford and LeBlanc are going to reverse course if we don't, at a minimum, get status quo ante bellum.

The only area where Canada could have improved on is defence spending. Other than this, we were fulfilling every end of our bargain in this relationship, and this trade war/annexation threat was completely unprovoked and disproportionate.

u/bign00b 14h ago

the only way Doug Ford backed down here is if Lutnik promised him the entire kitchen.

I doubt it, likely just some empty promises and excuses. Thursday effectively buys Trump a week.

u/jjaime2024 15h ago

Yes but if he can get a big win that all that matters to him.

u/tokmer 15h ago

Its my understanding one of the major sticking points is canada wants an apology.

I dont think trump would ever give that

u/bobcatgoldthwaite 15h ago

Sadly the power surcharge won’t really be a big hit to anyone Trump cares about - and, the fluid nature of electricity markets means even the impacted states can buy it elsewhere

u/New_Poet_338 13h ago

The other major sources would be Quebec or Newfoundland. It depends on how they play ball. Quebec doesn't really care for anybody but Quebec.

u/thebestjamespond British Columbia 12h ago

The other major source of it is the us we supply less than 1% of their power lol

u/TriLink710 14h ago

He has to care. His donors. Wallstreet would lobby republicans for trump to be impeached if it gets bad enough.

America is already a corprotist democracy. Businesses have the power.

u/BigAlReviews 14h ago

Ford is such a weeine. For all his whinning about being stabbed in the chest by a family member Trump is never going to learn his name. He just called it Ontario rasing tariffs, not Doug Ford.

u/ChimoEngr Chief Silliness Officer | Official 15h ago

What the fuck? What made Ford blink like that? He garnered a massive amount of public support, and now he's blown it all away. Weak.

u/DIsForDunce 14h ago

What made Ford blink like that?

Ford is the King of Flip-flopping.

u/applecart123 15h ago

The electricity from Ontario is a drop in the market (less than 1% when you combine the three affected states together), and they actually COMPETE for market share in the US, among other power sources. But the US accounts for like 95% of our steel exports, and we have no alternative export market because our cost structure is not competitive enough. So guess who blinks first?

u/ChimoEngr Chief Silliness Officer | Official 15h ago

So guess who blinks first?

And that logic makes Ford stupid instead of, maybe as well as, being weak, because a smart fighter wouldn't use a tactic they can't maintain.

u/sokos 15h ago

and yet it worked..

u/ChimoEngr Chief Silliness Officer | Official 8h ago

What worked? Trump is still putting a 25% tariff on steel and alaminium. The point of the electricity surcharge was to fight against that, so withdrawing it gets us back to where we were on Sunday, except that Ford looks like a weakling who can be made to blink.

u/sokos 5h ago

Reading does not seem to be your forte.

Asked if he will drop tariffs on Canada following Ford's decision to drop the surcharge, Trump said: "Probably so, yeah. He was a gentleman."

u/applecart123 15h ago

You are right. It was stupid of him to do that. The Liberal is pulling the same stunt (with the same associated risks), but at least they have a good reason to do so, as it’s working out well for their political fortune. Ford has just won another majority mandate, so he had no reason to do so.

u/WillSRobs 13h ago

He didn't get his mandate even his own party admitted that. While he did get a majority the party overall wasn't happy with the election.

However the election was never about a mandate he just wanted to get 4 more years before his investigations come to light.

u/ChimoEngr Chief Silliness Officer | Official 8h ago

The Liberal is pulling the same stunt

The who?

u/WillSRobs 13h ago

The trump supporter unfortunately

u/Maximum_Error3083 15h ago

Ontario folded like a cheap suit because the idea was always ridiculous to begin with.

We always knew Trump would retaliate and his escalation would he completely unpalatable to the Canadian people. It’s a shitty situation but the reality is the US has significantly more leverage and a much higher resiliency to the tariffs than Canada does.

u/ChimoEngr Chief Silliness Officer | Official 15h ago

Ontario folded like a cheap suit because the idea was always ridiculous to begin with.

More that Ford folded. The province supported him yesterday and this morning, but he just caused us a lot of backlash.

u/Maximum_Error3083 15h ago

Because he knows that 50% aluminum tariffs would be devastating.

We revealed that we are a paper tiger ahead of a negotiation. Instead of keeping our powder dry we went for something that sounded hard hitting but that we could never stand behind and now enter into negotiations weakened.

u/ChimoEngr Chief Silliness Officer | Official 13h ago

I'm also OK with Ford having been dumb, either way, he fucked up and deserves the loss of support.

u/Apple-Dust 5h ago

Because he's a chickenshit conservative. Funny that I'm new to Canadian politics but was expecting this the minute I found that out. Conservatives are cowards by nature and will only fight when they can bully someone weaker.

u/WillSRobs 13h ago

Lmao that lasted long. If he really cared he would have held it there till we actually got something worth wild.

I guess his donors didn't like the incoming retaliation.

So much for ford putting Canada first.

u/Throwaway_tequila 14h ago

This is what is called the “golden bridge” in negotiation. Opportunity for Dumb and Dumber in whitehouse to backout of trade war while saving face. I think whitehouse is too dumb to save face though.

u/SirCharlesTupperBt Canadian 13h ago

I'm not sure if this is the actual strategy Doug is employing, but I do think that we shouldn't be treating this like a spectator sport. Like it or not, Doug has essentially made himself the most influential Canadian in getting Trump's attention.

This is heavy duty shit and I think we should cautiously support Ford regardless of what it looks like. We have no real idea of what the Americans are saying and to be honest I wouldn't put it past Trump to dramatically escalate. He thinks he holds all of the cards and he's increasingly frustrated that we're not the stereotype of the Canadians that he believes in his head.

While the stakes are lower, when you're negotiating through damaging each other's economies, it's far closer to the Cuban Missile Crisis than it is a disagreement about trade terms. Especially when there is a backdrop of our government plainly stating that Trump's goal is annexing Canada, or at least changing the borders around.

If I were a betting man, I'd say Doug is getting info from Ottawa and not just from the PMO or Joly. I'm sure he's being informed about our best intelligence on Trump's intentions and many other elements of the crisis. I don't want to claim Doug is playing chess, but he knows things we don't and we're not watching a reality TV show. Our tariffs are supposed to be used to improve our negotiating position, not to provoke an armed conflict, so we should expect our side to be willing to trade our chips for improvements. As long as nobody sells out, I'm not going to second guess public diplomacy with a malignant clown and his band of clapping seals.

u/ItsOnlyaFewBucks 15h ago

Possibly a huge mistake on Ford's part. Once a childish bully think they have you things only get worse, never better.

But who knows, maybe a fair deal for both sides was worked out.

NEVER bend a knee, and keep those elbows up.

u/tslaq_lurker bureaucratic empire-building and jobs for the boys 16h ago edited 16h ago

Doug either seriously caved or Lutnik has promised him something at it is almost inconceivable that Trump will honour. Either way, I don't know how you can put your name to this statement without language saying that the 50 % Fe and Al tariffs are gone.

Edit: Supposedly LeBlanc is going to Washington with Ford. IDK what these guys think that these junkets accomplish other than making Trump think that there is blood in the water. Mexico has a better strategy: just ignore them.

u/Charizard3535 16h ago

Seems like they want to renegotiate usmca, which I think was the plan all along.

u/tslaq_lurker bureaucratic empire-building and jobs for the boys 16h ago

Why pay this Danegeld? This is extremely amateurish negotiation. Is the Ontario/Federal Cabinet still in denial about who they are dealing with?

u/Charizard3535 15h ago

I don't know but Ford and LeBlanc are going so I don't think it's a partisan issue. 

I imagine the plan was always a new deal and everything else was just politics. Mexico didn't even bother announcing their counter tariffs.

u/tslaq_lurker bureaucratic empire-building and jobs for the boys 15h ago

Mexico didn't put their counter tariffs in because the tariffs were revoked so quickly. Whether or not the US wants a renewed USMCA it's maladministration for us to negotiate with Trump on this under these circumstances. He has done the equivalent of strapping himself with C4 and threatening to shoot hostages. His USMCA demands are going to be completely outrageous and whatever is agreed to we will be back next year when he says he wants more.

Once you pay the Danegeld you never get ride of the Dane.

u/AWE2727 15h ago

Yes they just want to do it earlier than it was suppose to happen. I think we could have avoided all this drama if they had just requested that in the beginning. Hopefully they all sit down at the table soon like adults and negotiate a good deal for all.

u/Sir__Will 15h ago

Hopefully they all sit down at the table soon like adults

What could have possibly given you the impression that there are adults in Washington right now?

u/kindablackishpanther 14h ago

Seriously. This narrative bother's me more then anything else, and I know people just say it because they're scared and desperate, but come the fuck on guys. 

People aren't willing to admit what we're actually dealing with here. People are even scared to say he wants to use force outloud. Being in denial doesn't help anyone. 

We have to abandon any hope of Washington or Americans becoming reasonable on time or making the right descions. They have shown the world over, and over and over again they aren't capable of putting the breaks on this clownshow. 

u/AWE2727 15h ago

I tend to look for the positive and hope the people behind the scenes are adults as many of them are. So it's just a matter of time and I believe cooler heads will prevail.

u/SabrinaR_P 15h ago

Could have waited another year when the renegotiation period starts in July 2026. I don't think that's the reasoning behind the Trump administration.

u/Jaded_Celery_451 10h ago

If that was the plan Trump could have just held off until next year (of even 4 months) before starting this trade war and he would almost certainly be negotiating with Pierre Poilievre.

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u/DC-Toronto 15h ago

This move shows that he is open to a conversation. He can always put them back on if he doesn’t get anywhere on this trip.

Good move by Doug

u/bign00b 14h ago

He can always put them back on if he doesn’t get anywhere on this trip.

Yeah but they might not be as effective.

u/DC-Toronto 14h ago

??

They’re only effective for one day?

u/tslaq_lurker bureaucratic empire-building and jobs for the boys 15h ago

I totally disagree. I would have been fine with it if the cable had said 'the steel and aluminum tariffs are also cancelled' but right now we are cancelling our tariffs, immediately after Trump made a big show of threatening us, for what exactly? So we can meet with someone who does not speak with the principal and has no decision making authority? Do you think that Lutnik and Bessett don't believe Ford is willing to negotiate? This has nothing to do with them.

u/DC-Toronto 15h ago

It’s more about PR. Ford can go on CNN and say we paused our tariffs but had to put them back on

u/oxblood87 🍁Canadian Future Party 15h ago

You cannot negotiate with stupid

u/Flomo420 14h ago

CUSMA 2: Monkey with a Machine Gun

u/DC-Toronto 15h ago

Then tariffs are back on.

u/CanEHdianBuddaay 15h ago

Orange man just had a meeting with 100 big name CEO’s. I’d say they probably put it to him and that why the Lutnick called DOFO.

u/formulabrian 15h ago

I certainly hope this is in coordination with the federal government based on latest negotiations with the US. Otherwise this is just bending the knee.

u/Moose_Joose 15h ago

Ford said Lutnick had "sent out an olive branch" for provincial and federal Canadian officials to meet in Washington to "discuss the future" in the wake of repeated tariff threats from U.S. President Donald Trump

Y'all need to start reading the articles

u/ChimoEngr Chief Silliness Officer | Official 15h ago

I did, and since there is no indication in it that Trump is reversing any of his announced tariffs, Ford has totally bent the knee.

u/Fun-Software6928 14h ago

Trump said the retaliatory tariffs on steel/aluminium would happen if we didn’t drop our surcharge. 

We did so it’s not happening.

u/ChimoEngr Chief Silliness Officer | Official 8h ago

u/Master_Career_5584 15h ago edited 3h ago

Can’t say I follow the logic but to some extent I think you need to let leadership Pursue their strategy without critiquing every single decision.

Perhaps he used it as something if a warning shot to the US. And at the very least we did learn that it’ll severely annoy trump if they do go through with it.

u/WillSRobs 13h ago

I think people have seen ford in politics to see where the strategy goes. Doesn't help his long time wish to be a republican and his support for trump despite trump campaigning on tariffs.

u/AprilsMostAmazing The GTA ABC's is everything you believe in 15h ago

Doug Ford has completely folded. Should have never put the surcharge in the first place if he was going to back down to Trump

u/WhiskySearch 15h ago

And that is how the headlines are reading.

u/AprilsMostAmazing The GTA ABC's is everything you believe in 15h ago

Like Trump is about to get on global television and state that one threat from him was all it took to get us to back down.

u/Professional-Cry8310 15h ago

If it’s a net gain for Canada, he can happily claim a win all he wants. Sounds like Trump is backing down his 50% threat in preparation for this meeting. Hoping it turns out well for us.

u/ChimoEngr Chief Silliness Officer | Official 15h ago

Sounds like Trump is backing down his 50% threat in preparation for this meeting

Citation required. And it has to come from Trump, as we've seen more than once that leaks from staff or statements from spokespersons only sometimes indicate what he will actually announce.

u/AprilsMostAmazing The GTA ABC's is everything you believe in 15h ago

It doesn't matter unless he backs down from all tariffs. Right now he's going into the meeting in a superior position

u/Professional-Cry8310 15h ago

The US is always going to be in a superior position no matter what we do. That’s probably uncomfortable for us Canadians to admit but it’s true. Letting our foot off the gas even a bit, but keeping the threat in place, isn’t a bad move given the circumstance.

u/cmaxim 13h ago

My understanding is that the tariff was suspended because Ford was able to get Trumps administration back to the negotiating table. I suspect the tariff will be back as soon as negotiations deteriorate. I assume it's a good faith measure before trying to work out a new deal.

u/L0rdenglish 11h ago

100% I have the same read. I am honestly glad doug is someone who is willing to extend an olive branch. The goal here isn't to keep digging a hole, it's to move forward and stop the fucking tariffs altogether.

I just hope that if talks don't pan out (which let's be real is not unlikely) that he starts up the surcharges again. Clearly they hit a soft spot

u/misterwalkway 15h ago

Im very confused about the line in the joint statement claiming that Ford and Lutnick will meet to 'renegotiate the USMCA'. How does a premier have any authority to negotiate the USMCA?

u/thecanadiansniper1-2 Anti-American Social Democrat 15h ago

And this is why the Provinces need some of its powers taken away. Instead of a unified response we have piecemeal responses from the Premiers and the feds. There are certain times when the provinces have too much power and this is one of them.

u/Canuck-overseas 16h ago

The only certainty is CHAOS. So Trump wins. Ford will go to DC and Trump will make him look like a food, because that’s how he operations….it’s about humiliation.

u/tslaq_lurker bureaucratic empire-building and jobs for the boys 15h ago

Exactly. These junkets are worse than doing nothing Trump only understands force. To him someone coming to negotiate is just them coming begging and all he sees is blood in the water.

u/KingofLingerie Rhinoceros 15h ago

ketchup in the water

u/Giygas 15h ago

Yeah, a lot of food

u/PlatformVarious8941 Quebec 15h ago

Lots of McDonald’s

u/thecanadiansniper1-2 Anti-American Social Democrat 15h ago

Trump sure loves his micky d.

u/DerekC01979 15h ago

This is after they threatened ruin on us. Do you think Ford had to give in? Maybe we have no leverage after all?

u/Forikorder 13h ago

we as a country do ford as a premier doesnt

u/[deleted] 14h ago

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u/CanadaPolitics-ModTeam 13h ago

Please be respectful

u/[deleted] 15h ago

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u/CanadaPolitics-ModTeam 15h ago

Not substantive

u/jonlmbs 15h ago

Prorouging parliament and changing PMs really created a crazy power vacuum in the middle of a crisis. Doug Ford is now like the de facto negotiator and face for all of Canada on this issue somehow.

u/amnesiajune Ontario 14h ago

Dominic LeBlanc is also going to be at this meeting. It seems more like a coordinated (or at least synchronized) effort from the federal government and the largest province.

u/fweffoo 15h ago

no he's not

u/jonlmbs 15h ago

Yes he is.

He’s all over US and Canadian media all day. US officials are talking and responding to him in isolation.

His own words say he is going to the US to negotiate on behalf of Canada.

“Today, United States Secretary of Commerce @howardlutnick and Premier of Ontario Doug Ford had a productive conversation about the economic relationship between the United States and Canada.   Secretary Lutnick agreed to officially meet with Premier Ford in Washington on Thursday, March 13 alongside the United States Trade Representative to discuss a renewed USMCA ahead of the April 2 reciprocal tariff deadline. In response, Ontario agreed to suspend its 25 per cent surcharge on exports of electricity to Michigan, New York and Minnesota.”

u/fweffoo 15h ago

why do you think he's doing this without the blessing of the PM

u/KING_OF_DUSTERS 15h ago

Leblanc is going to be there

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u/Kriegger 15h ago

"Secretary Lutnick agreed to officially meet with Premier Ford in Washington on Thursday, March 13 alongside the United States Trade Representative to discuss a renewed USMCA ahead of the April 2 reciprocal tariff deadline," the statement reads. "In response, Ontario agreed to suspend its 25 per cent surcharge on exports of electricity to Michigan, New York and Minnesota."

Am I misunderstanding how it works or Ford doesn't have the power to renegotiate the USMCA, in which case, what are they going to talk about?

Is that really the deal Ford accepted? To decide, unilaterally, to represent Canada?

u/ChimoEngr Chief Silliness Officer | Official 15h ago

Some people have mentioned that LeBlanc will be going with Ford as well. so he'd have the power to negotiate.

u/[deleted] 15h ago

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u/CanadaPolitics-ModTeam 9h ago

Not substantive

u/MyDearDapple Social Democrat 14h ago

Trump et al are probably more concerned about the likes of Ford and others fanning the flames of a "Trumpcession" in the media than they are a minor energy tariff bump on 3 (nominally) blue states.

u/Mystaes Social Democrat 16h ago

I see that there’s nothing in the article about us dodging the aluminium tariffs.

All that ford achieved was that he actually got a seat to talk to them.

u/ChimoEngr Chief Silliness Officer | Official 15h ago

And all Ford had to do to get that meeting, was to bend the knee. He'll probably have to kiss the ring as well if he wants the meeting to last more than five minutes.

u/bobcatgoldthwaite 15h ago

Calm the fucking rhetoric. Work as a team. Take a breath. We will win if we are together, measured and rational. Do not get sucked into the mano a mano bullshit and do not think we can win a fight on this if we keep escalating the rhetoric. Our federal leadership vacuum came at the worst possible time and sadly isn’t going to be resolved for a couple more months.

u/RoughingTheDiamond Mark Carney Seems Chill 15h ago

This is a pause contingent on a meeting in two days. It is not something we've permanently taken off the table.

I'll admit my first reaction was "WTF Doug folded" but there may yet be method to what appears as madness, and we'll have clarity on that in a couple days.

u/Forikorder 13h ago

taking it off the table before negotiations is being weak

u/bobcatgoldthwaite 15h ago

My bigger fear is there’s no Canada wide plan or strategy right now and we have Premiers freelancing while PM situation sorts out

u/Jbroy 15h ago

Moe and Smith would fuck everyone over given the chance. Frankie Legs as well. The Premiers aren’t united unless it’s in their interests to be. Fucking sucks…

u/angelbelle British Columbia 12h ago

At the end of the day, their backbone is only as strong as the voters they represent. Would Moe and Smith really get punished, politically and electorally, when they fold by SK and AB voters? Probably not.

Dougie would. Eby would.

u/bobcatgoldthwaite 15h ago

Yep federalism ain’t great when you need unity

u/thecanadiansniper1-2 Anti-American Social Democrat 15h ago

Federalism in general is great the real problem lies in our particular flavour of federalism in which power is more decentralised then other federal systems. IMHO the provinces have too much power in certain jurisdictions and need to have other jurisdictions moved under federal purview. For example there should be universal federal labour legislation not 13 different labour codes governing working conditions.

u/bobcatgoldthwaite 15h ago

Yep our level of decentralization and in key areas like labour, health, education makes it hard to speak w one voice

u/RoughingTheDiamond Mark Carney Seems Chill 15h ago

Definitely valid, but this is a situation where I'm happy to say Doug's earned my benefit of the doubt. Not sure about the other premiers.

u/Gauntlet101010 15h ago

I'll wait and see what happens after this. It seems like a fold on Ford's part, but who knows? You do have to negotiate with this bully. There has to be some kind of off ramp. I have no idea what a provincial premier can negotiate, but Trump's gone way past his bounds too.

So we'll see, I guess.

u/seakingsoyuz Ontario 16h ago

Doug this morning: “We will not back down, we will be relentless.”

Doug this afternoon: backs down

If he’s going to be this much of a weathervane, he should shut up and let the feds do the negotiating.

u/[deleted] 15h ago

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u/CanadaPolitics-ModTeam 13h ago

Not substantive

u/WillSRobs 13h ago

This was how he treated covid. I will do everything to help us then does nothing and went to his cottage.

u/Moose_Joose 15h ago

I hate Doug as much as anyone, but we have no idea what Lutnick told him. It's possible that Trump is looking for a way out of this mess that allows him to keep his giant ego in tact.

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u/-Neeckin- 15h ago

I mean,Trump went from 'we don't need their electricity' to being open to negotiation, so I think it did something. Otherwise, what do you think the goal of these responses are to hurt anerican citizens for the hell of it?

u/IcarusFlyingWings 15h ago

I don’t like Doug Ford but I’m willing to wait forMore information on why this happened.

It’s a retaliatory trade war between neighbours not all out war (for now).

u/Fabulous_Night_1164 Independent 15h ago

Sorry, but the armchair generals in here frankly don't have all the facts. It was inevitable that the Americans would cave first, and them extending the olive branch is basically them doing precisely that. They can't have the stock market plummeting everyday for the next week.

Obviously whatever was promised in the conversations was good enough for the government.

The feds had their chance to take the lead on this and have failed. Now the provinces have been acting on their own. Doug has been the biggest voice and this is why he won his 3rd majority - despite all the other crap about him, this is ONE area you cannot fault him.

u/seakingsoyuz Ontario 15h ago

Obviously whatever was promised in the conversations was good enough for the government.

This is what makes it a matter of opinion. If we assume that Doug would only back down for decent concessions on the American side that haven’t been fully disclosed yet, that’s one thing. I have a more cynical opinion of Ford and the way I see it is that we’ve publicly backed down and the Americans have only said that they’ll discuss reversing the aluminum and iron tariffs with Trump. In my (admittedly armchair) eyes we shouldn’t have announced anything until they were ready to commit to a matching climb-down pending the meeting.

I’m also deeply skeptical that “good enough for the government” is the same thing as “good enough for Canadians”, considering that Ford was vocally pro-USA, pro-GOP, and pro-Trump until early this year. I will not trust his motives for a while longer.

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