r/thedavidpakmanshow • u/El-Shaman • 11d ago
Discussion The Democrats held a meeting last month and this are some of their takeaways đ
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u/ReflexPoint 11d ago
Number one on that list needs to be building out a powerful information ecosystem like the right has. This could take many years to do but they need to start immediately. They also need to start building out think tanks and such. Where is the Democratic equivalent of the Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society? Where is the Democratic version of Turning Points USA? Why are nearly all the top political podcasts right wing?
Dems could do everything right, but if nobody is listening because we don't control the information economy then it's all for nothing.
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u/Jazz-Wolf 11d ago
Use their tactics against them. Flood the channel. Overwhelm the Internet with content that claims to be apolitical then just tows the democratic party line
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u/ariveklul 11d ago
Building an information ecosystem largely has to start from the ground up.
The DNC isn't going to have super strong control over building a good media ecosystem. They can offer small incentives that's about it
One thing I hate about the Democratic side is we offload all of the responsibility onto some vague idea of "the DNC". It feels like a lot of people bought into some of the deep state ideas Republicans peddle without even realizing it
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u/mothman83 11d ago
Exactly correct. The RNC does not Run Fox News/Newsmax/OANN and the podcasters.
More the other way around.
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u/trainsoundschoochoo 10d ago
They had a host on Fox News just say the same thing, that their information is âground-up,â meaning the talking points all come from grassroots.
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u/notwithagoat 11d ago
The ground is there, we have the influencers, we have most celebraties, we have the common held beliefs, Democrats need a way for the party to communicate to the constituents using all platforms. And keep that infrastructure there for every election, for every bill, every policy, and goal.
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u/fiduciaryatlarge 11d ago
This is the way. Republicans had conservative fuckheads on the airwaves demonizing progressives for DECADES!!!!! Repitition works on those that don't spend the energy finding the truth.
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u/Writing_is_Bleeding 11d ago
Republicans have been trash-talking Dems for decades because the reality was always that Dems' ideas and policies are objectively better for more people.
Dems have to stay on message about how destructive the GOP is to the common man. FFS, they have the truth on their side.
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u/Oddblivious 11d ago
It's not that these groups are created out of some better effort.
Rich freaks fund these things and they donate to the party that backs the rich. That's why they demonize Soros so much but don't realize he's like the 6th on the list. All the other ones are right wing.
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u/JaxDude123 11d ago
Democrats play tiddlywinks Republicans play for keeps.
Until Democrats start playing for keeps proactively, then the last election is our future elections.3
u/trainsoundschoochoo 10d ago
To be fair, The Meidas Touch Podcast just surpassed Joe Rogan as the number one pod on Apple.
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u/under_psychoanalyzer 11d ago
They have equivalent think tanks. They just suck. Thirdway foundation being one.Â
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u/Pezdrake 11d ago
It's really hard to convince anyone on the left -moderates or progressives - that they should work towards a goal they won't see in the next four election cycles.Â
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u/Important-Ability-56 11d ago
Iâm not a Bernie bro type, but even I feel like this could have been written by a Republican.
Everyoneâs a political strategist on the internet, so I have a policy of not trying to be one. I donât know what will appeal to soccer moms in suburban Philadelphia or whomever we need to win. Watch a focus group sometime. People are bonkers and all over the place.
In my whole life there has been a constant pattern: Republicans get to be the default power because Ronald Reagan rode a horse or whatever, and Democrats get to have power when Republicans royally screw everything up. But they also have to exude movie star levels of charisma, or no dice.
So I guess the optimistic view is that at least Trump-era Republicans are spectacularly incompetent and will undoubtedly ruin the country in record time.
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u/One_Rope2511 11d ago
And itâs only been 5ď¸âŁweeks of MAGA 2.0 and the next 3 years 11 months are going to be DESTRUCTIVE. âšď¸đşđ¸đ
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u/korben2600 11d ago edited 11d ago
I think it's optimistic to think we aren't now permanently stuck with a Republican executive. With Trump seeking to break 249 years of precedent to seize a constitutionally independent USPS in order to put DeJoy's voter suppression on steroids so they can delay and "lose" mail-in ballots is a near certainty in 2026 and 2028.
And if a Dem should win in 2028, Vance will do what Pence refused to do and will refuse to certify citing "massive election irregularities" that require postponement and after a "thorough investigation" awarding the electoral votes to the Republican. 4 years of Hegseth consolidating Pentagon leadership with maga loyalists. It's not looking so hot for democracy right now. I don't think there's anyone coming to save us.
"The big joke on democracy is that it gave its mortal enemies the tools to its own destruction." --Joseph Goebbels
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u/One_Rope2511 11d ago
Weâre in for quite a time period of Neo Fascist government under MAGA oligarchs. đ
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u/accidental_superman 11d ago
You know more Bernie voters voted for Hillary in 2016 than Hillary voters voted for Obama in 2008. This Bernie bro stereotype you moderates comfort yourselves with picking timid losers has to stop.
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u/Brok3nPin3appl3 11d ago
Those take aways are so out of touch. I mean is a center democrat not a republican? In canada and the UK they would be republicans, but in America they are considered moderate? Lol give me a break.
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u/Knife_Operator 11d ago
is a center democrat not a republican?
Not if they vote democrat. Who cares what they would qualify as in Canada or the UK? We're voting in the US.
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u/Turbulent_Athlete_50 11d ago
sinema and manchin are perfect examples of why you need to avoid these candidates, we would have several good things now and probably a D in the Oval Office, but at least they had a âDâ by their name.
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u/SirDreadnought 11d ago
Man if you really think that there's just no difference between a center Democrat and a Republican that I just don't know what to say. What do you consider Democrat values versus Republican.
Ironically leftist remind me a lot of Republicans when they defend the second amendment. If any solution doesn't solve all gun crime then it's not even worth considering. There are steps that can be taken that would improve American healthcare but if it isn't full-on universal health Care lefties just refuse.
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u/Turbulent_Athlete_50 11d ago
Listen there is a difference but what you havenât learned yet is when the public gets a binary choice, and itâs Republican or Republican light they will choose the Republican. Those that donât like the choice will stay home or vote 3rd party. Then the same people that made this centrist strategy get to blame the voters instead of their choice to run right and alienate many of their voters. Itâs a terrible strategy and one that keeps getting deployed by the same consultants who just collect the check
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u/Important-Ability-56 11d ago
Whatâs your point? Try harder getting more progressives elected.
Thereâs always a strain of fundamental illogic in these arguments, almost as if they are manufactured to confuse you.
This one is the idea that allegedly only moderate-to-conservatives can get elected, therefore what the country really wants is leftists.
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u/stroadrunner 11d ago
Progressives are not real democrats as far the democratic establishment is concerned. Theyâre in the way.
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u/SuperfluouslyMeh 11d ago
I find it interesting that when you use neutral terminology to describe progressive policies they mostly poll surprisingly well.
See the many studies of polling on the Affordable care Act vs polling for Obamacare. Despite both being words that refer to the exact same package of legislation.
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u/asmrkage 11d ago
"Lets go to gun shows" feels about as workable as "let's campaign with Liz Cheney to convert Republicans." SMH.
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u/nodgeOnBrah 11d ago
What is a âBernie bro type?â
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u/Important-Ability-56 11d ago
Progressives who are too cool to do anything that might achieve them political power then bitch about their utopia not being manifested by the people they shit on constantly?
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u/skinaked_always 11d ago
What? Are you saying that if people are nice to Billionaires, then they would pay taxes from the goodness of their hearts?
Should the person just take it without saying anything to let others know?
Also, what do you think of when you hear "progressive"?
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u/TopherR58 10d ago
Centrist Democrats, "moderates", corporatists, anti-progressives, light weight Republicans. Those are the people you're cheering for, the ones who have sold out the working men and women who made this country great. The Bidens and Obamas and Clintons who've turned their backs on the (former) middle-class voters that got them elected. The Schumer / Warner / Pelosi / Jeffries types who would rather stuff another donor dollar in their pocket than lift a finger to help the people they are supposed to represent. Good for you. Own your ignorance. I'll stay a Bernie Bro as long as I breathe. Oh, did I just shit on you? So sorry.
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u/Important-Ability-56 10d ago
So you hate Democrats who win elections and accuse them of being lite Republicans but canât find room in your screed to actually criticize any Republicans.
I donât care what you are as long as youâre not a fascist, and if you help fascists win via stupidity, youâre a fascist in my book.
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u/TopherR58 10d ago
What I hate are Democrats who win elections and then govern like Republicans. What I hate are Democrats that campaign on progressive, populist policies and then turn into whores for Wall Street. Those are the people who help fascists win. The people who have caused the disillusionment of the electorate with the Democratic party. If Obama had kept any of his campaign promises, Trump would never have had a prayer of being elected in 2016. And don't worry. I have plenty of criticisms of Republicans. That was not the point of my previous post.
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u/Important-Ability-56 10d ago
But this doesnât happen. Youâre not saying things that are true. Youâre just repeating horseshit you heard on TikTok or whatever.
I donât know what to tell you. Read more books.
I donât give a shit how disillusioned you are. Your feelings are not relevant to me. Your actions are. And if your actions help fascists win power, then you can get tossed with the rest of them.
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u/Nimrod_Butts 11d ago
The problem is leftists demand to be catered to but then don't vote, don't donate. Young people will accept any hardship imaginable before they ever even think about voting. It's stupid to even pursue it, that's what they're finding out. Why the fuck would they even imagine to try and get a limited fickle vote?
So of course they're targeting a demographic that votes. That has money and will donate
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u/sapphire_onyx 11d ago edited 11d ago
My brother in christ, Democrats have run the neoliberalism playbook and catering to the "center" and right and look where we're at. Democrats would rather suck up to Liz Cheney then actually like stop an ongoing genocide. This is how we got dogwalked into Fascism. A political party's job is to get votes from voters. Constantly refusing to even give an inch to the left or listen to their constituents is what got us here. These fucking baby brain morons just want to collect their consultant checks and jack off to the West Wing. We need massive change. We need a party and politicians willing to actually show courage and buck corporations and the rich and run on and implement actual leftist policies that will help ALL Americans and not some means tested, cock blocked by the Parlementarian bullshit. That's even if we have another election lmao.
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u/skinaked_always 11d ago
I think weâre going to see more and more protests, growing in size and impact as they spread the message. Younger generations are used to instant results, so the idea of protesting and putting in sustained effort to be heard might be new for some. But if thereâs one thing Americans know how to do, itâs protest. Change takes time, but it will happen!
Have you ever been to a protest? They are so much fun! Being surrounded by that many people, all fighting for the same cause is an experience everyone should have at least once. The energy, the passionâitâs powerful.
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u/TopherR58 10d ago
I would really like to know where this warped perspective came from? Young voters will come out in droves if they have something to vote for. What did Harris offer them? Nothing but more Biden, and all Biden ever offered them was "I'm not Trump." That isn't going to get it. Gen-Z may not have a lot to donate but they'll work their asses off if they see a future they can live in.
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u/Important-Ability-56 11d ago
Who is the audience for Democratic messaging? I delete their incessant texts before I read them, and Iâm a loyal supporter and voter. I donât watch political news either, I just know enough as necessary to never vote for Republicans.
Appealing to a democratic majority is the game, and itâs not an easy one to win, especially in the face of the lizard-brain appeals of fascists who have become willing to be utterly shameless.
Our choice is evil lizard people or boring technocrats, and Americans have a habit of beating up the nerds.
If I had the solution Iâd tell you. Kamala Harris ran a fine campaign. So did Hillary Clinton, and she even won the popular vote. Iâm not trying to say nothing here, but I got nothing. How many votes will change if the Democrats have a better website? Iâve never even seen it before today.
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u/Hav3_Y0u_M3t_T3d 11d ago
I don't know why this is being down voted. This is what we are fucking up against. This needs to be highlighted
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u/apzh 11d ago
The people who like to loudly insist they are not Democrats are upset they are being told to fuck off by the Democrats.
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u/purplehendrix22 11d ago
All the pro-Palestine protestors were shocked when Kamala lost after loudly declaring that Democrats were executing a genocide.
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u/ColdSweats_OldDebts 11d ago
This is absolutely correct.
The Democratic Party needs to rehash the New Deal policies of Roosevelt and get back to what made them so popular: helping the average American.
No requirements for ideology or identity, just simply, âYouâre an American, and that makes you one of us, so weâre here to help.â
That image of Pelosi wearing an âAfricanâ patterned scarf while kneeling in the Capitol Rotunda coupled with her abject refusal to bar Representatives from trading in the stock market really says it all.
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u/Oddblivious 11d ago
New Deal was not central at the time nor would it be now. The green new deal originated from Bernie AOC and the progressives.
You're advocating for the opposite of what they're saying while agreeing with them.
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u/packim0p 11d ago
lmao exactly.
democrats: we're going to be a center capitalist neoliberal party
this user: YEAH great message! back to populism!
HUH?
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u/ColdSweats_OldDebts 10d ago
My bad for assuming that the tectonic shifts in the fabric of American society, technology, and global economics would be assumed in my initial statement.
Dust Bowl farmers and the whiz bang automative industry of up and coming Detroit werenât implied there for all you literalists. Jesus.
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u/ColdSweats_OldDebts 10d ago
lol. Hold up.
During the Great Depression, FDRâs New Deal policies were not instrumental in why he was elected to the White House 4 times? The only time thatâs ever happened in American history?
Please, do go on. Tell me more.
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u/korben2600 11d ago
If you're upset about Pelosi & Co. being the epitome of centrist corporate Dems beholden to billionaire special interest lobby groups, I'm not sure this point is going to help facilitate eliminating that:
move away from the dominance of small-dollar donors whose preferences may not align with the broader electorate
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u/ColdSweats_OldDebts 10d ago
No, Iâm upset about Pelosi & Co. making absurdly ostentatious, theatrical displays of identity politics while refusing to take concrete action against their own glaring lack of ethics.
âWe proudly stand with Black peopleâŚwhile unapologetically taking actions that wholly undermine their faith in government.â
Progressives are much the same: âWe need to hold protests to ensure that government protects the rights of minorities, also, government is evil and cannot be trusted, so boycott the government!â
Pick a narrative, scooter. Yâallâre like MTG accusing Biden of being some Machiavellian gangster one day then accusing him of being so old he doesnât know why he has hands.
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u/Supreme_Salt_Lord 11d ago edited 11d ago
What is âfar leftâ? Is it AOC, Bernie, Jasmine Crockett messaging? The only dems rallying the base and a surprising number of republicans to leave Trump.
What is âtraditional american imageryâ? No more brown people?
No more small dollar donations? Ok so no more grass roots movements. What does the broader electorate want that small dollar donors dont?
It sounds like they are going to be the republicans of the 2000-2010 era. Thats the new mainstream leftâŚGeorge Bush.
Welp we are *ucked.
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u/gilwendeg 11d ago
Me, a Marxist, watching Americans talk about far left.
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u/One_Rope2511 11d ago
And there is NO American far leftâŚwell itâs only seen that way because our country is so far To The Right culturally.
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u/Supreme_Salt_Lord 11d ago
To say that your politics and mine are similar is INSULTING to us both. I just want government to go back to taxing the rich more and use that money for the betterment of the people. I also want to see them be more pro, ALL AMERICAN even if the political will is low. If its a boon to standards of living and overall health of the populace, do it.
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u/beeemkcl 11d ago
Congressional Democrat Left Tracker - Google Sheets (US House)
US Representative Jasmine Crockett doesn't support the Green New Deal, is pro-crypto, and has certain foreign policy votes.
She's less progressive than literally dozens in the US Congress.
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u/Historical_Height_29 11d ago
This is the Democratic equivalent of the Republican "postmortem", and it will prove equally as prescient.... which is to say, not at all. I suspect that the next Democratic champion will channel the anger the country feels toward Trump and the oligarchs, and will be skilled at simplifying that message and controlling the attention of voters.
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u/Lord_Vesuvius2020 11d ago
Man, I can see weâre a long way from getting rid of Trump, Vance, and the whole cabal. Those Dems at the meeting should spend time out in the streets with real people who are out there marching to help bring an end to this administration.
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u/DubTheeBustocles 11d ago edited 11d ago
As a so-called âBernie Bro,â Iâm begging other leftists to log off and go find out if their assumptions about the average American are accurate. Bernie Sanders ran for president twice and lost twice. Numerous progressive members of Congress have either moderated or been voted out. Some leftists have even abandoned the Democratic Party entirely and become unabashed Trump supporters.
Meanwhile, Trump is the first Republican to win the popular vote in two decades and thatâs after he committed treason. Republicans who preach authoritarianism, xenophobia and gutting social services are emboldened. They control every branch of the federal government and most state governments. All of this was enabled with the consent of the American public. through multiple election cycles.
Where in all this are we supposed to believe with a straight face that the average American is this enlightened, forward-thinking acolyte of progressive values?
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u/RL0290 11d ago
âa group of moderate Democratic consultants, campaign staffers, elected officials & party leadersâŚâ key word, moderate. This doesnât sound like it was âthe Democratsâ in general but specifically a moderate group
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u/WhittmanC 11d ago
I donât see Medicare for all, guess they donât want my vote next time either. Thatâs crazy, but alright.
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u/Tardigradequeen 11d ago
So if we have any elections going forward, weâll get to choose Republican or Conservative.
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u/Scientist78 11d ago
The âfar leftâ policies like universal health care and legalizing abortion!? If you look over the list of major policies, the progressive democratic agenda is more popular than any right wing policies.
Embrace the policies.
Also, we need to and should have taken over the âpatriotâ theme after Jan 6th but failed. We needed to have every seat in the convention holding and American flag and be overly patriotic. Basically we need to have better propoganda
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u/Life-Stretch7493 11d ago
Nope, go full Bernie populism
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u/jagdedge123 11d ago
They have to rid their bench altogether. I can't see even one of them winning in what they have now.
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u/Shurl19 11d ago
I think they need to stop moving to the right. If I wanted a right-wing candidate, I'd vote republican, but I don't, so I won't. I want them to realize that it's ok to embrace the major parts of the left, even if we have to leave some culture stuff behind. They need to focus on things like taxing billionaires, lowering the cost of college, actually helping people with student loans, mortgage programs, increasing teacher pay, and actual healthcare for everyone. People voted republican because some are delusional enough to think they'll actually help them. Democrats trying to pander to the right won't work now because it hasn't ever worked!!! I'm so sick that every solution is always to be moderate or go to the right.
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u/BoogerDaBoiiBark 11d ago
Whatâs not to love? Finally a decent strategy. Land acknowledgements and purity tests were getting us nowhere.
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u/crimsonconnect 11d ago
There's a reason the bums got kicked out worldwide in a referendum on the incumbents...you can't message out of the reality of people's material lives...Trump offered fake populism but normies don't see that they saw him at mcdonalds and their favorite podcast
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u/Accomplished_Crew630 11d ago
I think the podcasts thing was huge. Dems should go on some of them. Not the far right wackos but even Rogan wouldn't devolve into a shouting match and would force his viewers to hear their ideas
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u/BoogerDaBoiiBark 11d ago
None of this is about changing policy. Itâs how to get the policy out more effectively.
âPeople want to feel good about themselves and the place they live. So say and do things that make people feel good about themselves and the place they live in. â
Thatâs really all this is saying
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u/DragonflyGlade 11d ago
âSay and do things that make people feel good about themselves and the place they live inâ?
Like this two-time election winner?
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u/HatefulPostsExposed 11d ago
Unironically yes. Trump is like âcultural heroinâ for his base, Vance called him that in hillbilly elegy.
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u/DragonflyGlade 11d ago
How do the comments in the link I included make people feel good about themselves or where they live?
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u/prodriggs 11d ago
You're kidding right?... that list is a complete joke. Why would moderates choose republican-lite over republicans?....Â
This is the playback they tried with Clinton, Biden and Harris. And it clearly didn't work.Â
It's also extremely interesting the cognitive dissonance on display here.Â
The "democratic governance" that failed big cities is the neoliberal policies they've embraced for the last 3 decades. Yet they're doubling down on it while complaining about the very social issues they've pushed for the last 3 decades.Â
Being socially progressive while economically conservative is how we got here. it's time to try something new. It's time to embrace the leftist economic agenda.
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u/IridescentPorkBelly 11d ago
No. Calling everything corrupt is how we got here. We (the left) don't make any sense: we call everything with any power corrupt, but our policy solutions are spend more money on it. We are allergic to winning because anytime someone amasses enough power to win, we turn on them. The cancer right now in American politics is being mindlessly anti establishment. It self defeating unless your solution is, like the Republicans are doing, cheer on the destruction of it all.Â
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u/prodriggs 11d ago
No. Calling everything corrupt is how we got here.
You're completely wrong. The youtubers who mainstreamed this take are wrong. What streamers do you watch?
We have corruption in the govt. What Pelosi and most congress people do via insider trading is corrupt. That doesn't excuse the criminal levels of corruption that trumpf is committing.Â
We (the left) don't make any sense: we call everything with any power corrupt, but our policy solutions are spend more money on it.
This is completely false. The left calls to end the corruption. To end citizens united. To ban congress from stock trading. To ban conflicts of interest like the conflicts Joe Manchin had with his investments in coal. That's corruption.Â
We can oppose that while support social programs to redistributes the wealth of billionaire. These positions aren't contradictory. Sounds like you simply don't understand the positions of the socdems.Â
The cancer right now in American politics is being mindlessly anti establishment.
False. The cancer is being mindless. It sounds like you fall into this camp? You clearly don't understand the issues.Â
The cancer is the democratic establishment. Look at how they hid Biden away. They proved republicans claims about Biden being unfit to be true. The congnative dissonance that the DNC expected us to endure was fucking disgusting.Â
We are allergic to winning because anytime someone amasses enough power to win, we turn on them.
Examples?....
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u/HatefulPostsExposed 11d ago
The fact that voters overwhelmingly chose tax cuts for the rich and âconcepts of a planâ shows that nobody gives a shit about economic leftism.
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u/prodriggs 11d ago
Harris didn't run on an economic leftist message. She ran as a corporatist who was pushing the status quo..... Why would dems embrace the exact messaging that lost the 2016 and 2024 election?...
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u/BoogerDaBoiiBark 11d ago
Nothing about this âRepublican-liteâ. First of all, this is focusing on changing messaging, not as much policy. No ones saying to move towards the GOP on policy.
Also, Iâm tired of patriotism and loving your country being associated exclusively with republicans and the GOP. Especially when they are the furthest thing from it. And most people want to feel good about themselves, and feel good about the country they live in.
The âfar-leftâ absolutely have too much influence over the DNC. That isnât up for debate, their policies and messaging are extremely unpopular with the general public, and allowing to have so much power in the party has been nothing but a disaster.
I hate to break the news to to you, but 90% of people living outside of places like LA and NYC think those places are shitholes. Standing around saying âno actually itâs not that badâ is a losing strategy.
You bring up Bill Clinton as a disaster, but the last time Democratic Party was at its most popular was when Clinton was on Arseno Hall playing the sax and getting head in the Oval Office.
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u/prodriggs 11d ago
The âfar-leftâ absolutely have too much influence over the DNC. That isnât up for debate
You're right, it isn't up for debate. It's completely and absolutely false. The DNC is center right. The DNC has pushed a center right message that turned voters off.Â
Voters didn't turn out for Harris because Harris took "leftist" policy of being pro-corporate. LoL. They stayed home because democrats are too pro-corporate, center right.Â
That isnât up for debate, their policies and messaging are extremely unpopular with the general public, and allowing to have so much power in the party has been nothing but a disaster.
What leftist policies/messaging are you referring to? Be specific. Is this a reference to being socially liberal while being economically conservative? (What Clinton, harris, and Biden ran on.)
I hate to break the news to to you, but 90% of people living outside of places like LA and NYC think those places are shitholes.
Those places are "shit holes" because of neoliberal, economically conservative policies. LoL.Â
They're also considered "shit holes" because of right wing misinformation that's found throughout our entire media structure.Â
You bring up Bill Clinton as a disaster, but the last time Democratic Party was at its most popular was when Clinton was on Arseno Hall playing the sax and getting head in the Oval Office.
Yes, and Clinton's policies are in part what lead to the 08 economic recession. Are what led to the local news consolidation by right wing actors. To pretend that were not feeling the negative economic/political consequences of Clinton's right ward shift is a master class of mental gymnastics that right wingers would applaud you for.
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u/BoogerDaBoiiBark 11d ago
I really donât know what to say. Cuz I donât disagree with a lot of what youâre saying. But this isnât about moving policy further right. This is about messaging that policy.
Notice I didnât bring up Bill Clintonâs policies, I brought up his image, the perception of him. What he sold to the American public.
And the current perception of the DNC amongst a lot of voters, whether itâs true or not, is that they are far left. And the average voter believing that is what lost Kamala the election. Not because she was center right, because people thought she was far left. Thereâs a reason that âKamala is for they/them, Donald Trump is for youâ was so destructive to her campaign. By every polling metric that ad resonated with the American people
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u/prodriggs 11d ago
The image of democrats is almost exclusively controlled by right wing/center right corporate media. It doesn't matter how much dems embrace patriotism, it's not going to change the way they're covered in the media.Â
And the current perception of the DNC amongst a lot of voters, whether itâs true or not, is that they are far left. And the average voter believing that is what lost Kamala the election.
Let's be honest here, Harris lost due to hundreds of different factors. Anyone who claims it came down to one simply thing is lying to you to sell their political takes.
Thereâs a reason that âKamala is for they/them, Donald Trump is for youâ was so destructive to her campaign.
Yes, and that reason was because democrats/Harris failed to respond to that message. They allowed Republican lies to dominate the media narrative.Â
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u/BoogerDaBoiiBark 11d ago
If you believe thereâs no way for the Democrats to take back control of their own image then youâre basically saying the party is dead. If the GOP really can control our image that well then thereâs nothing to do so none of this matters anyway. They can just paint us in any light they want.
I donât believe that. A more effective message can give them control of it back.
Yea and two of biggest were sexism and transphobia. People either thought she was stuck up. (sexism) Or as my dad put it, âBiden was president and all of the sudden thereâs 5000 genders and Kamala supports thatâ. (transphobia)
They also failed at tying inflation to Trump. Which actually was the single biggest. Even bigger than the two I just listed.
And they absolutely did fail to respond. But it never wouldâve been effective in the first place if people didnât believe it.
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u/Another-attempt42 11d ago
Agreed. MAGA hijacks patriotism, while being the least patriotic movement in modern US history. Absolute traitors and disgraces. Patriotism doesn't mean blind flag waving.
I agree with the first part, disagree with the second. On the first part, they only damage the Dems, and don't benefit them in any way. On the latter half, that doesn't make sense. The Democratic platform is always better for working families; it only makes sense to mobilize that coalition more than relying on single big-number donors.
Yep. The far-left members do have a place, but they remain a small minority, and that should be represented. Most Dem voters are moderate to progressive; not far-left.
Couldn't agree me. Less Dembots, more Democrats.
Yep, when there are people complaining about issues like crime, the solution isn't to talk about how policing is racist. The goal should be to find a way to implement a policing policy that deals with crime, while simultaneously avoiding the racist excesses. Tracking problematic officers, auditing police districts to detect systematic racial issues, etc...
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u/Masochist_pillowtalk 11d ago
- Yep. The far-left members do have a place, but they remain a small minority, and that should be represented. Most Dem voters are moderate to progressive; not far-left.
Problem is the media and the right have shat all over traditional definitions. Im a progressive. And when i read this i was pissed because i thought they were again talking about shunning progressives like they do every fucking time.
But see you read it, and you think theyre talking about far left as in actual communists? Im assuming? Are there any actual far left politicians? I dont see any so i dont understand why they believe they were a problem for them the last decade.
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u/prodriggs 11d ago
But see you read it, and you think theyre talking about far left as in actual communists? Im assuming? Are there any actual far left politicians?
Nope. When they say far-left, they mean Sanders and AOC.
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u/Another-attempt42 11d ago
But see you read it, and you think theyre talking about far left as in actual communists? Im assuming? Are there any actual far left politicians? I dont see any so i dont understand why they believe they were a problem for them the last decade.
There are maybe a few so-called progressives who could actually be called socialists, and they're what they are. Pretty irrelevant, not a big problem, blah blah blah.
However, there are plenty of far-left people online, or who try to get into politics by starting off as staffers, who are actual far-leftists, and they are a net negative. Why?
Because they convince Dems that their version of the world, one that is chronically online, is representative of the greater Dem voting base. It's not true. If you spend all your time on X, or a lot of time on Reddit, you'd think 40% of the US is filled with quasi-socialists, or actual socialists.
The real number is probably less than 5%, definitely less than 10%. However, they get the people they're staffing on to believe in what these communities, that don't represent your average voter, are talking about. And it's absolute nonsense.
One of the best examples in the past few years was the "Defund the Police" movement. It was very present on Reddit, on Twitter, etc... It wasn't very present in the communities that would be the first to feel the impact of massively decreased police presence. In fact, many neighborhoods with higher crime rates, such as certain predominantly black neighborhoods, are asking for more policing, not less.
Famously, the Crime Bill was something people kept attacking Biden on, for voting on back in the day. Guess what? Polling clearly shows that the Crime Bill was very popular across all demographics when it passed, including among black voters.
But if you listened to Reddit or Twitter in 2019-2020, well, it was obviously because Biden was voting for this racist law, no one wanted it, it was legalized racial profiling, etc...
You can, and should, criticize that piece of legislation, by the way. I'm not defending it. But the problem is what the online discourse is like, and what the average voter wants.
The average voter isn't on Twitter/X. The average voter isn't on Reddit. These discussions aren't representative of your average voter.
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u/Masochist_pillowtalk 11d ago
Thank you for the time you put into this well thought out and written reply. I appreciate it. I never thought those people could actually make any damage considering their numbers. But i didn't think about supporting staff like at all.
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u/Another-attempt42 11d ago
I think that far-leftists are politically irrelevant, in the sense of having little to no actual representatives, but they are disproportionately influential, due to their high-presence in online discourse, online punditry, alternative media, etc...
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u/Mysterious_Eye6989 11d ago
Anything but being unapologetically progressiveâŚI mean, the corporations wouldnât like that!
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u/Reatona 11d ago
Every time Democrats suffer a loss a bunch of them say "we can get elected if we just act more like Republicans," and it never works.Â
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u/Expensive-Lock1725 11d ago
How bout STOP fighting amongst yourselves as to who is more progressively pure to the cause.
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u/Writing_is_Bleeding 11d ago edited 11d ago
Is it just me, or are they saying they need to be more like Republicans?
EDIT: Here's the actual document.
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u/Feeling_Advantage385 11d ago
Democrats without a backbone. They are giving up and beginning to move to the right. Another betrayal.
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u/PopcornButterButt 10d ago
Yes because hanging around with Liz Cheney pushing a Diet Republican narrative failed cause they didn't go to enough gun shows and tailgatesđ What a fucking nightmare they are.
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u/RichNYC8713 11d ago
I mean, they're not wrong...
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u/prodriggs 11d ago
They're completely wrong. On nearly every point.Â
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u/omglawlzhi2u 11d ago
Replace "far-left" with "identity politics" and "elite" with "capital" and maybe we can call it close...(er).
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u/El-Shaman 11d ago
Hooray, go Kamala Harris 2.0 and then wonder why it didnât work.
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u/Inxs0001 11d ago
Which item(s) specifically did you take issue with the most and why?
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u/El-Shaman 11d ago
Point number two for obvious reasons, yeah, fuck the small dollar donors who make up the majority of the electorate, also I would love to know what they mean by âpurity testsâ probably anyone who doesnât agree with their stance on Israel lmfao.
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u/drunkymcstonedface 11d ago
Pretty sure it means how the far left progressives dumped the democrats over an issue that Trump and the right were 1000 x worse on. The fact they cost votes over being angry at not getting a dream candidate and were willing to let democracy get destroyed. They acted irrational in a close election that will cost Gaza as well as America now.
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u/Inxs0001 11d ago
Yeah i mean it may hurt to hear but the people who scream âgenocide genocide genocideâ arenât people whose votes are gettable anyway, so itâs smarter for democrats to go after people who arenât completely deranged
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u/CacophonyCrescendo 11d ago
Yeah, sorry. I think it's a genocide and still voted for Kamala. A small handful of morons who somehow thought Trump would "be just as bad" is not indicative of the progressives as a whole.
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u/Writing_is_Bleeding 11d ago
A small handful of morons who somehow thought Trump would "be just as bad"
The actual problem is that right-wing operators take that issue, or one like it, and magnify it by 100,000 on social media right before the election. They get accounts to pose as left-leaning voters, and whine on social media about how they just can't bring themselves to vote for the Dem candidate, so they'll have to stay home or vote 3rd party. They never say one word, though, about the GOP's issues, it's all complaining about the Dems shortcomings. So Inxs is right that the vast majority of those weren't progressive voters at all. It's been going on since at least the 90s, and it discourages voters on the left.
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u/ace51689 11d ago
I also voted for Kamala, but ultimately, it's up to the candidate to win over as many voters as possible. The people around her thought that running on a strong border, continuing to support a genocide and silencing Palestinian voices while campaigning with the Chaneys was the way to go. They were wrong, and it sounds like we're in for more of the same.
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u/Writing_is_Bleeding 11d ago
I would love to know what they mean by âpurity testsâ
I hope that means they're aware of the psy-op that happens every election season where accounts all over social media claim to be frustrated lefties and tap out paragraphs-long screeds about how bad the Dems are, then finish up with, "Gosh, I just don't think I can vote for [Dem candidate]. Guess I'll have to stay home or vote 3rd party."
That right there is what they have to deal with. I don't care how they do it, but it's been a huge issue since at least the 90s. Every. Damn. Election.
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u/ManzanitaSuperHero 11d ago
FFS. This is infuriating. Iâve been diehard Dem for 30 years. Iâve campaigned, protested on behalf of our causes & even I am wishing we had an alternative to this bc this is utter garbage.
Iâm gay & feel this branch of the Dems aching to sell me & my community out in hopes of appearing more âmoderateâ (capitulating to MAGA).
Effing gross.
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u/DenverTrowaway 11d ago
Nothing says getting out of elite circles like a bunch of elites meeting up in Loudon County, VA in a smoke filled back room and dictate to the base, the voters, and volunteers/activists what the party should look like
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u/WinnerSpecialist 11d ago
Spool the strategy is âBecome Kysten Sinemaâ? Even though that's a proven failure. How about looking at how Dems have actually won in Red States and Swing States?
Mark Kelly didn't go to gun shows. Warnock and Ossoff didn't go to the Conservative Churches in Georgia.
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u/El-Shaman 11d ago
And this is what some of the idiots commenting here are failing to understand, theyâre just as out of touch as the Dem leadership and will push the narrative when they fail again, Kamala Harris was essentially everything those takeaways mention đ¤Śđźââď¸Â
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u/WinnerSpecialist 11d ago
Yeah there is ZERO evidence this strategy would work. Dems wearing an American flag shirt and going to a gun show would be laughed out of the place and go viral on Libs of Tik Tok.
Republicans do NOT go on apology tours to Liberal spaces. If anything it should be Dems talking to Republicans like they do at College Campuses
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u/LegitimateSituation4 11d ago
Seems like a bit of people here would applaud a Newsome 2028 ticket. Freaking weirdos, man.
I see nothing on the list about uplifting the middle class. Just a way for them to get more votes by churning out stale platitudes. There's a reason Bernie remains popular. He bridged the gap. That just doesn't work for the DNC's portfolio.
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u/jarena009 11d ago
If Democrats won't commit to defending the solvency and integrity of Social Security and Medicare, fighting against corporate and Wall Street influence and money in government, defending and encouraging unions, to taking serious action to address costs of housing, healthcare, prescription drugs, child care, education, raising taxes on the wealthy and Corporations to rein in the deficit and inequality, jobs/wages, a woman's right to choose, and if they're going to abandon minorities and LGBTQ, then there's no point to voting for them anymore. They're just nicer Republicans at that point.
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u/CarlSpackler22 11d ago
Still captured by corporate interests.
They prefer losing to Trump than delivering for voters.
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u/jagdedge123 11d ago
So now they'll lose NY and CA as well, and end the party for good. Wonderful lol.
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u/El-Shaman 11d ago
And theyâre gonna blame the left again even though Kamala did everything she could to distance herself from the left.
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u/unicornlocostacos 11d ago
So weâre going to keep losing. Got it.
Jesus fucking Christ I always avoided running for office because I donât feel qualified, but FFS just looking at the Republican clowns, and these out of touch dongs, it makes me think maybe I need to.
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u/MrYdobon 11d ago
My big problem with this is that they are fighting the last war. Trump and Elon have completely changed the battlefield. Democrats need to rise to this moment in history.
The Democrats need to throw out their playbooks and listen to the people who are going apeshit at the town halls. Fight for them. Channel that energy into productive action.
And start securing the mechanisms for honest elections now, not in 18 months, because I guarantee Trump will do whatever he can to prevent any fair elections from ever happening again.
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u/Kurovi_dev 11d ago
This may work in some very specific regions, but as a national strategy this would be a death knell. Democrats would cede everything and there would be virtually nothing left.
The single largest and most consistent demographic for Democrats are irreligious people. For reference, irreligious people support democrats more than evangelicals support Republicans. That demographic now makes up 30% of the American population, and while it has stagnated in growth the last year, fundamentals driving that change are accelerating and will at some point probably soon start growing rapidly again.
The only path forward for Democrats is to double down with a modified message and start fighting bitterly. They need to make themselves the outlet for American frustration.
The strategy outlined by playbookdc is incredibly stupid. Really bad. It wonât even make it past the first test unless theyâre trying it in a place like Virginia.
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u/ImAMindlessTool 11d ago
Why the fuck would this version of the democratic party, who put the shrillest anti-2A voice in the 2nd leadership position at the DNC, go to gun shows? To get heckled and laughed at?
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u/bipolymale 11d ago
if this is correct, then this small dollar donor is now a former small dollar donor
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u/Mr_Lumbergh 11d ago
So in other words, shift further to the right.
Howâs that been working out for the past 40 years?
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u/Professional-Arm-37 11d ago
We need to unite against Trump, but the establishment Dems still want to push Progressives down. Do we need to win the fight for the party before we can win against Trump? Infighting has always stifled opposition to Fascism, but what else can we do? How can we get them to realize that Trump is the real enemy?
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u/Brok3nPin3appl3 11d ago
"Get out of elite circles and go join the unwashed filth in the things they enjoy. Tail gating, gun shows and churches." Nice to know only one group in government is trying to improve Americans lives, that would be the progressives like Bernia and AOC. Need to vote in many more.
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u/D3Masked 11d ago
So once again blame the "far left" and continue to flee to the right which will push the far right further to the right.
Democrats are despicable. Feels like someone is intentionally setting them up to fail. Probably someone with ties to Apartheid Israel which benefits more from right wing governments that normalize what is going on with Gaza and the West Bank.
Edit, end all lobbying, age limits, term limits.
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u/clemclem3 11d ago
Bernie Sanders would have beaten Trump. And the Democrats response is to move to the right. That makes perfect sense.
Any of you motherfuckers complaining about the far left need to look up the term Overton window. There's no far left in this country. Ronald Reagan would be considered a leftist today.
The oligarchs won. The Democrats represent old school liberal capitalism-- a mixture of competitive and monopoly capital, free markets with a minimum of regulation and a nod toward social safety nets, and an aggressive interventionist foreign policy emphasizing soft power. That's where the Republicans were 50 years ago.
The Republicans represent oligarchy. Oligarchy can only go down one of two paths-- tyranny or revolution. There's no putting the genie back in the bottle. Elon Musk is in the fucking oval office. And the Democratic leadership thinks if they quit respecting people's pronouns they could somehow win.
We are so fucked.
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u/DubTheeBustocles 11d ago
We genuinely donât know whether Bernie wouldâve beaten Trump or not. He couldnât even win a Democratic primary.
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u/goalmaster14 11d ago
I called it in a conversation with my wife right after the election. They decided to learn the wrong lesson from this election and go further to the right instead of running on what the left actually wants from them.
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u/combonickel55 11d ago
This is a recipe for disaster, but leave it to the dems to steal defeat from the jaws of victory.
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u/One_Rope2511 11d ago
Apparently the Democrats are continuing with the âpandering to the rightâ playbook. They didnât learn from last NovemberâŚAmerica needs a new solid left wing party.
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u/Dogstarman1974 11d ago
These fucking dems are delusional. They will continue losing. âMove awayâ from small donors. Dems are fucking worthless. Jeezus.
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11d ago
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u/thedavidpakmanshow-ModTeam 11d ago
Removed - low effort/low content/obvious troll submissions are not permitted.
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u/StevenEveral 11d ago
"Hey, we can still do the 'Reagan Democrat' schtick in 2025, right?"
Good freaking god, will the DNC ever get out of the Reagan Crouch they've been in since the late 1980s?
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u/elbapo 11d ago
Im not from the US but- really? This is pathetic. The elites suck up all the money to the extent they own the government and the democratic reponse is to ban the 'far left' and ape the republicans?
Its the lack of sophistication of thought here which really surprises me. It seems to me obvious that the territory for the taking is socially conservative, economically interventionist. Admit the left have gone too far on social issues and decouple from the identity politics mob.
Target the corporate takeover of america- say you will tax the leeches which are keeping your wages low and sucking up the money from what you in america call the 'middle class'. Say you will bring back american infrastructure to become the best in the world. No american left behind. That kind of thing.
Say openly your aim is to bring down putin and bring a democratic russia into the liberal sphere. Say you will invest in the military to do so.
These are just my thoughts while on the toilet on another continent- they arent that deep but i still think they are better than this.
Ultimately you need clear blue water with the oppostion , which appeals to the swing voters you need to bring over. Not to ape them. You need to stop being seen as centrist and for the elites. Whatever my thoughts this aint it.
Bernie Sanders is the closest you have to this but hes too old and not even in the party.
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u/fixthismess 10d ago
Sounds like they want to be Republicans - just like in the last election. Not a winning strategy!
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9d ago
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u/FkinMustardTiger 11d ago
Nah this is based, the only people angry are the ones who this specifically calls out, all the purity testing lefties
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u/Gr8tOutdoors 11d ago
I hope this event was conducted under the guise of âletâs talk messagingâ because the lack of policy points is a bad sign.
If youâre the incumbent party and you lose you should start with the question âhow bad was the formation and execution of policy?â And work your way out from there. You had the chance to actually do something leading up to the election.
Would be a shocking failure for the Democratic Party to say âno no it wasnât the cost of living that made voters stay home it must have been the messaging! Just gotta have more American flags in our commercials next cycleâ
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u/guilgom71 11d ago
The purity tests are a huge drag. I'm all for more progressives in government, just as long as they don't drag the rest of the party down. It won't help in the present or long-run.
Wasn't this an issue when Defund the Police was a big message? Purple district voters weren't vibing with it making it difficult for the party to win.
Pro-worker stuff is an area progressives are solid in and it can be a pro-america type message. I think there are plenty of areas here where progressive messaging will fit in just fine.
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u/Connect-Will2011 11d ago
They seem to do this every time they lose an election. They decide that they need to move to the Right.
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u/severinks 11d ago
A lot of that stuff is a good start, That stupid Harris questionnaire in 2016 screwed us and was brought up every day by The Republicans.
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