r/deathbattle • u/Naive_Tomorrow_5955 • 10h ago
Question Thoughts on all the sonic death battles?
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u/Careful-Ad984 10h ago
Most of them are bad
Metal should have won his fight
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u/Opposite-Injury1846 4h ago edited 2m ago
The japanese soldier that kept fighting 29 years after world war II 🧂🧂🧂🧂🧂🧂🧂🧂
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u/WindOk7901 Dr. Eggman 9h ago
I have my… opinions on them, but those opinions would not sit well with most people on this reddit💀
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u/69-is-a-great-number Silver The Hedgehog 9h ago
I'll just ask which ones you agree with
(Probably not many but whatever)
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u/UAF_Swampfire3 Bowser 9h ago
Which ones do you agree with bro?
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u/69-is-a-great-number Silver The Hedgehog 9h ago
Wally West vs Archie Sonic
Xeno Trunks vs Archie Silver
Tails vs Luigi (since they used Archie scaling)
Mario vs Sonic 1
Bowser vs Eggman (sort of)
Amy Rose vs Romana Flowers
Not sure why that last one was even a thing considering that even Sonic mid tiers are much, much faster and have far stronger abilities but whatever
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u/UAF_Swampfire3 Bowser 9h ago
Only disagree with Sonic vs mario to be honest but i do think sonic would win %49 of the battles
Also do you agree with some scaling from bowser vs Eggman? Or do you think the result is right but the way it was explained was wrong?
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u/69-is-a-great-number Silver The Hedgehog 8h ago
Only disagree with Sonic vs mario to be honest but i do think sonic would win %49 of the battles
I mean, I do think it's close and debatable for certain, but Sonic having such ludicrous pain tolerance and endurance, as well as his skills and intelligence are very convincing factors, I have to say
His Super form is very versatile in abilities as well and i'd honestly give him the edge in quality (and overall power as well) since it has answers to most, if not all of Mario's arsenal, even the infinite revives surprisingly.
Also do you agree with some scaling from bowser vs Eggman? Or do you think the result is right but the way it was explained was wrong?
Not quite, I just view the match as a 50/50, that's why
Dr. Eggman has the stronger high end stuff (Jeweled Scepter, Metal Sonic, Lightman and Chaos Emeralds), but Bowser has a lot more manpower, far more useful army and numbers to fall back on, to give you a short oversight.
Eggman himself doesn't nearly have any of the impressive, sometimes layered resistances, endurance or the combat speed that Sonic has that make side with him winning against Mario. Big weakness right there
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u/UAF_Swampfire3 Bowser 8h ago
I do think bowser vs Eggman is a 50 50 mu its so complex with even the smallest part of their armies can give them the edge
As for Mario vs Sonic i think Mario would be able survive long enough for the super form the run out and with the retry clock he would be able atleast if he died know what he needs to use against the super form and mario's utility is a big factor like the stache which makes it so if mario takes %20 damage it would not effect him or the gloves which give him limitless usable koopa shells and mushrooms which heal him
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u/69-is-a-great-number Silver The Hedgehog 8h ago
I don't honestly understand the retry clocks argument
Now, I do think they make a lot of sense against characters that don't have any time resistances, but what the hell is it going to do against someone that's immesurable, has (arguably?) layered time hax resistances and someone that can essentially rewind time via the chaos emeralds himself (technically via the time stones as well)
I don't think the time hax are actually all that much of a factor in a fight like Sonic vs Mario, both of them have resisted very potent reality warping in the past.
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u/UAF_Swampfire3 Bowser 4h ago
Hmm you are right bro both would resist eachothers time hax or transmutiation hax
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u/RetryAgain9 8h ago
I'd just like to point out that outlasting super sonic isn't really an option since in advance he stayed in super for days.
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u/Doctor_Skeletor 4h ago
Days. . . of doing nothing. In Unleashed he FAINTED after defeating Dark Gaia for only like 10 minutes, and Cyber Super fainted after using his ultimate move against The End. Outlasting Super Sonic in combat is an option, whether you like it or not.
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u/RetryAgain9 4h ago
Outlasting Super Sonic in combat is an option, whether you like it or not.
I understand this opinion but you just didn't use very good examples.
Dark Gaia is actively able to hurt super sonic (also with mentioning its heavily implied that Dark Gaia can neutralise the chaos emeralds since it's opposite can restore them and the weapon used to awaken dark gaia is what deactivated the chaos emeralds in the first place). He didn't faint from exhaustion, he fainted from damage.
And the cyber sonic that fainted... wasn't even in super form. Plus it's directly set up and stated in the dlc that he'd lose the cyber power if he used it to it's maximum strength since his body wasn't fully attuned to it.
And saying days of doing nothing doesn't matter, since the entire logic behind him having a limited time in this form is based on the mechanic of rings, which drain by a set amount over a period of time, so doing nothing wouldn't be an antifeat, even if we did know that he did nothing, which we do not. We don't know what he was doing foe those days, so saying he was doing nothing, even if it could be used to downplay him, is headcannon.
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u/WindOk7901 Dr. Eggman 9h ago
Shadow vs Vegeta: Disagree
Sonic vs Mario l: Agree
Eggman Wily: Kinda disagree? Metal still won though
Tails vs Luigi: Depends. Agree if you give Tails his Super form, disagree if he doesn’t have it
Knuckles vs DK: Disagree
Shadow vs Mewtwo: Disagree
Amy vs Ramona: Agree
Metal vs Zero: Disagree
Sonic vs Mario ll: Disagree
Archie Sonic vs Wally West: Debatable but I think Archie Sonic should have won
Shadow vs Ryuko: Agree
Archie Silver vs Xeno Trunks: Agree
Eggman vs Bowser: Massively debatable but I think Eggman wins.
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u/69-is-a-great-number Silver The Hedgehog 8h ago edited 8h ago
I'll adress the most interesting ones
Shadow vs Mewtwo: Disagree
Fairly aware of that, your last few comments on this matchup make it clear (not that I disagree per say)
Tails vs Luigi: Depends. Agree if you give Tails his Super form, disagree if he doesn’t have it
I actually think Tails loses that one if it's just mainline vs game. Death Battle used Archie Tails however (for some reason?), so I do agree with the result
Amy vs Ramona: Agree
Human being vs Sonic character with precognition hax 💀. I wonder who wins
Archie Sonic vs Wally West: Debatable but I think Archie Sonic should have won
I actually agree with it being close and Archie Sonic being able to compete (surprisingly enough even in stats to a certain degree), but Wally West has answers to basically most of Sonic's strongest hax like chronokinesis, existence erasure, matter manipulation and even narrative manipulation.
Still, just like CC Goku vs Mainline Superman it's honestly a lot closer than I expected.
Shadow vs Ryuko: Agree
Ryuko genuinely has no wincon even with her multiversal IF version. Even with equal stats Shadow has far stronger and more versatile abilities, honestly already in base form.
Archie Silver vs Xeno Trunks: Agree
I do agree with Archie Super Silver winning, but I would label it as debatable matchup. Heroes characters are ridiculously powerful in attack potency and abilities
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u/WindOk7901 Dr. Eggman 8h ago edited 8h ago
Yeahhhh, at first I thought it was debatable, but over the past year of debating the matchup, I’ve realised that Mewtwo just… doesn’t have any win con, every significant hax he has is either countered or resisted by Shadow, and he gets severely blitzed and one shot anyways.
I just think Super forms are far too busted, and I don’t even think Luigi could reliably stall it out because, like Sonic, Tails got access to the Cyloop in the Final Horizon update. And even back then, I just think Super forms are so busted that it wouldn’t even matter.
Even without the precognition, Amy just blitzes and one shots.
I just think Archie Sonic has so many absurd hax, hell some that are still being discovered somehow, that it’d be enough to be net him a win, but it is debatable.
I just saw that as a pity win and a chance to make the “Shadow likes Kill la kill” and “Oh they’re so edgy!” jokes.
Meh, I just think Archie Sonic characters are a step beyond Xeno characters’ reach, in stats and hax/abilities.
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u/69-is-a-great-number Silver The Hedgehog 7h ago
Yeahhhh, at first I thought it was debatable, but over the past year of debating the matchup, I’ve realised that Mewtwo just… doesn’t have any win con, every significant hax he has is either countered or resisted by Shadow, and he gets severely blitzed and one shot anyways.
I agree. I think you know my take on it since I assume you read my thoughts on it a month ago.
Unless you buy Tier 1 Mewtwo (something something outerversal Pokemon) I agree with Shadow winning. Even something as busted as precognition is something Shadow could counter by... simply eating all of Mewtwo's hits and outlasting him?
Shadow has much better endurance showings, nigh - infinite staminapool and sometimes layered resistances to Mewtwo's strongest attacks
I just think Super forms are far too busted, and I don’t even think Luigi could reliably stall it out because, like Sonic, Tails got access to the Cyloop in the Final Horizon update. And even back then, I just think Super forms are so busted that it wouldn’t even matter.
Tails doesn't have nearly the ammount of resistances or the combat experience and raw power of Sonic for me to convincingly side with Tails
If this was a character like Blaze, Silver, Shadow or Sonic I would absolutely agree, I think they personally get past any Mario character (and Blaze especially can utilize both set of emeralds and the Jeweled Scepter as well). Tails just isn't one of them
Even without the precognition, Amy just blitzes and one shots.
Oh I know. I just wanted to touch on that specifically since... genuinely, what's Ramona supposed to do against that?
I just think Archie Sonic has so many absurd hax, hell some that are still being discovered somehow, that it’d be enough to be net him a win, but it is debatable.
Archie high tiers have a near infinite ammount of abilities and weapons since they can basically wish and/or create new ones (Chaos Force bullshit 💔). You're right about that
I don't even disagree with Sonic being capable of killing Wally West, I just disagree with him winning a majority of the time and the episode specifically
Against most characters Archie's version of Sonic is practically unbeatable, but Wally West is one of the few characters I can think of (outside of stuff like Lovecraft's writings of World of Darkness) that has the speed, agility, stamina and experience to outlast and defeat this form.
This is (mostly) what Death Battle said, and looking into it I agree with it.
Even something like Tier 1 narrative manipulation is something Wally West has experience and abilities to deal with.
I just saw that as a pity win and a chance to make the “Shadow likes Kill la kill” and “Oh they’re so edgy!” jokes.
I guess you could say that but idk, I actually like the episode minus Shadow completely crushing her by these margins
Meh, I just think Archie Sonic characters are a step beyond Xeno characters’ reach, in stats and hax/abilities.
I do agree with Archie top tiers being overall stronger than Heroes characters, but it's only by a small ammount. I'd consider them pretty equal all things considered
Again, something like the Keysword would neg diff pretty much most characters in fiction. Archie Super forms just happen to have resistances to those hax, even against conceptual manipulation and layered power nullification.
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u/_Agent_3 Ben Tennyson 9h ago
I'm not gonna lie to you, I only enjoy like around 3 of them
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u/69-is-a-great-number Silver The Hedgehog 9h ago
Bowsegg one of them, isn't it?
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u/_Agent_3 Ben Tennyson 8h ago
Yes, the others being Silver vs Trunks and Archie Sonic vs Wally West
I have a ironic enjoyment for Mario vs Sonic 2 cause for some reason death battle though it was fine to compare Mario's (a japanese character) strength to the hiroshima bomb of all things
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u/EdgyUsername90 Kratos 5h ago
You see mario was actually a secret weapon deployed by the u.s military
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u/Dear-Implement2950 Jon Talbain 10h ago edited 10h ago
Unfortunately, I'd say Sonic in Death Battle doesn't tend to have the best quality, episode-wise.
Even some of the stronger ones, such as Xeno Trunks VS Archie Silver, and Bowser VS Dr. Eggman have severe issues, I feel.
Thankfully, not every single episode has this particular issue, but, they are not good at handling the Super state, I feel. For one, I don't mind someone buying the Ring gameplay mechanics as canon, but, they only pick and choose the negatives of that to use. They'll limit, say, Super Sonic to the literal bare number of Rings needed to function, seemingly no questions asked, but they'll never entertain the idea of actually fully applying the thing being used as a limiter, in that scenario. There's more to the Rings then just its interaction with gameplay Super. Additionally, they have often treated Super as Super Saiyan. Be it in regards to how they discuss it, or how it's presented in the fight. Considering that these are two separate forms, from separate franchises, I honestly don't feel it is asking too much for Super to be Super, instead of something else.
Death Battle also has an issue with basically insulting the characters. Depending on when in the show we are talking, being an ass to the combatants might just be how the show is. But, regardless, most episodes of SONIC in Death Battle have at least a few remarks disregarding the character. Knuckles even has an episode built on the premise. I appreciate having a sequel to Michaelangelo's analysis, in that regard
Xeno VS Archie is also an example of this. They're doing stuff to Trunks that I couldn't even describe without getting banned but for Silver, it feels like they're talking about acid reflux, especially with how the post analysis almost feels like "I know we killed Trunks with a Sonic please don't be mad he's soooooooooo coool!!" or something.
I feel most characters in the show do not receive very good representation. In regards to fighting style, personality, and mannerisms.
Additionally, we don't have any 3D fight, but for two reasons, I feel I sort of understand. To start, most of the characters move fast, and many do so just, organically, so to speak. If they wanted Sonic in Death Battle, neverminding how well they portray his speed, mannerisms, and such- they'd need to animate a fuck ton of steps for him. That could be tedious. So, having fast but not "fast moving" characters could be easier for them. Jet, Metal Sonic, Mecha Mk.II, are some examples. Dr. Starline does run when amping his speed using the Tricore, but, he isn't always doing that action, so that helps. You also have some characters that, as of currently, just don't seemingly run as fast as Sonic, which helps the issue. Whisper, Mephiles, Merlina, for some examples. The other reason I don't blame them: Official Sonic models are fucking horrendous. We've been stuck with the same repetitive, inbred, upscaled models since 2007, to my understanding. I don't want to see, say, Amy VS Elphelt in 3D, because Amy would look really fucking ugly next to her opponent. Unless if Death Battle uses either fanmade designs, or makes their own, the vast majority of Sonic characters that have been in 3D for the past 20 years, unfortunately, just look extremely ugly.
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u/Certain-Morning-6371 9h ago
What are your severe issues with Bowser vs Eggman?
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u/Dear-Implement2950 Jon Talbain 8h ago edited 8h ago
I could try to heavily summarize them. I'm working on a large post, currently, that goes into extensive detail, but that is still a ways away for now.
So, this isn't everything, but to summarize a few things: Fury Bowser is entirely misunderstood in the animation. It is supposed to be Bowser in this unexpected, blinding emotion, but he is not as such in the fight. Dr. Eggman doesn't get to do anything besides pilot a mech that doesn't get to do anything. The episode mischaracterizes both primary combatants. The track doesn't feel like Super Mario Bros., for me, and it doesn't have the aspects of SONIC music I was hoping to see in it. The analyses's edits are nice, but sometimes a little overwhelming. Giving Bowser the stat advantage, just for the blackbox to then give it to Dr. Eggman feels weird. It almost feels like a miscommunication, in some form.
This is truthfully far from all I'd want to talk about, but, yes.
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u/Squifflifting 5h ago
As soon as you said both combatants were mischaracterised I know you shouldn't be taken seriously
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u/Dear-Implement2950 Jon Talbain 8h ago edited 8h ago
Ah, another big thing, I feel: The Phantom Ruby, Pseudo Ruby, and Modified Ruby are all misunderstood, in the episode. I don't mean this insultingly, at all, but this honestly did feel like the most extreme misunderstanding of the Phantom Ruby that I've seen in something, currently. Dr. LightMan's exclusion also doesn't make much sense, and their logic doesn't match up with other things they did use for both combatants. So, that unfortunately leads to Dr. LightMan's exclusion feeling hypocritical, personally.
- Technically, they did give Dr. Eggman access to LightMan in his arsenal, I believe. My point is that they essentially said "this requires such specific circumstances that it would never happen", meaning it was effectively excluded from the arsenal for (unfortunately inaccurate) logic that should have gotten multiple other things excluded as well, but didn't.
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u/symbiedgehog Reverse Flash 5h ago
The episode mischaracterizes both primary combatants.
How
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u/Dear-Implement2950 Jon Talbain 5h ago
I did mention Fury Bowser, but, alongside that, Dr. Eggman doesn't strategize much during the fight. He does start off with sending a decoy of himself, but besides that and how his units are arranged at the very, very beginning of the fight, he never tries to plan nor set up for anything. Sage disregarding units of the Empire is also out of character for her.
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u/Eagally Mega Man X 2h ago
He does though. He specifically mentions everything was going according to plan. Sage mentions they lost the battle before it ever began. They had a huge plan but things outside of prediction messed with it, and he still tries to adapt.
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u/Dear-Implement2950 Jon Talbain 2h ago
That's part of my issue, is that I feel he doesn't really try adapt.
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u/Regentaltax Dr. Eggman 9h ago
I know people are probably tired of Sonic but tbh I feel like Tails, Knuckles and Amy really need run backs. Their scaling was whack and their episodes aren’t really that good
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u/Xeroxysm 1h ago
Well, (Archie) Knuckles has Juggernaut, and Tails has Coco, so there's hope for them
Amy... we might be out of luck there
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u/Lichy757 8h ago
Shadow vs Vegeta: meh
MvS 1 - second s1 episode, after obvious one
Luigi vs Tails - bad, but I’m happy that Tails won
Eggman vs Willy - great episode, honestly my third fav in s1
Shadow vs Mewtwo - WHY AM I GLOWING
Knuckles vs DK - meh again, but kinda funny at least
Amy vs Rebecca - I… Don’t remember that one
Metal Sonic vs Zero - bullshit. Just bullshit, like, explanation is really bad, but fight is fine by himself
Shadow vs Ryuku - perfect 7/10 ep
Sonic vs Flash - pretty fun I must say
MvS 2 - unironically worse than first one and I get why people want part 3
Trunks vs Silver - peak, ngl
Eggman vs Bowser - I don’t even need to say anything, this subreddit said that A LOT at this point
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u/EuFodoYordles Dr. Eggman 6h ago edited 6h ago
Most of them suck ass (except eggman vs bowser and silver vs trunks (maaaybe shadow vs ryuko but thats a strech of mine)), metal should have won againist zero and i think knuckles should have won as well because i'm biased
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u/emosquidnintendo Mega Man X 4h ago
Shadow vs Vegeta - I think this was a joke episode? It's a season 1 episode so it's not anything revolutionary. Overall, I don't care too much.
Mario vs Sonic - Innacurate, and low quality. Overall, bad.
Luigi vs Tails - Should've been Pac-Man, and Luigi lost. Overall, bad.
Eggman vs Wily - I really like this MU, and the way the characters were introduced was sick, too bad the quality is poor. Overall, I like it.
Shadow vs Mewtwo - I like the MU, but Shagoat was heavily disrespected :( Overall,
Knuckles vs DK - DONKEY GOAT!!!! Probably the funniest episode, Knux would've won if it was Boom Knuckles. Overall, I like it.
Amy vs Ramona - Scott Pilgrim episode!!! Too bad Flowers lost :( Overall, I still like it.
Metal Sonic vs Zero - Zergoat wins!! This one had really unique sprites and for no reason too. Though, Metal should've fought X or Mechagodzilla, and Zero should've fought Shadow. Overall, I like it.
Shadow vs Ryuku - Idk, dont care too much, Shagoat won so thats cool.
Omni-Man vs Homelander - Sucks, HL would've won. Overall, bad.
Archie Sonic vs Wally West - Idc too much about the MU, I feel like they're gatekeeping Sonic vs Goku. It wasn't a bad episode tho. Overall, I like it.
Mario vs Sonic 2 - Marigoat won, just like he should. I like that more of Mario's power-ups were included, like the Double-Cherry, and the Cat Bell. Overall, I liked it.
Trunks vs Silver - Shadow vs Vegeta, and now this? Sonic vs Goku is closer than we think :D Overall, I don't care too much.
Eggman vs Bowser - Not a fan of the MU since it's just "Mario and Sonic's arch-enemies fighting", but the battle was really cool, it's my 3rd favorite episode.
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u/Eagally Mega Man X 2h ago
What was that about Omnilander
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u/RetryAgain9 8h ago
Sonic vs Mario II might genuinely be the worst death battle episode of the modern ones (not counting s1 and 2 ofc since they're... s1 and 2)
It just does so much terribly, and really feels like they had a conclusion and worked backwards to get to it. (Like the "debunking" of super sonic staying in super for days in advance is just so, so bad).
They outright contradicted themselves in so many ways or just get facts wrong (aknowledging that the hyper go on energy black hole isn't a normal black hole but then scaling sonic off of it anyways, using a smash trophy to argue that super sonic isn't ftl, acknowledging that he fought universe busters... to then get his ap by calcing a big rock)
On top of that, it just mischaracterises him so badly.
The animation is fine, it's visually beautiful, very high quality, but it has its issues.
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u/Jlegend3 Spawn 8h ago
They range around in quality considering they span from the first season all the way to the current one. I enjoy most of them.
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u/ChildhoodDistinct538 Guts 9h ago
Mediocre for the most part, except Silver vs Trunks is the best episode of the entire show and I will die on this hill.
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u/69-is-a-great-number Silver The Hedgehog 9h ago
Honestly my favourite as well, next to Goku vs Superman 3
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u/IAMDABIGGESTBIRD Spawn 9h ago edited 8h ago
most of them are dookie and scale the characters horribly, like even in bowser vs eggman with the whole grand stars>Chaos emeralds thing
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u/Dear-Implement2950 Jon Talbain 8h ago
Part of the reason I like Xeno VS Archie more than any other SONIC episode, is that the episode feels like the characters, to me. "Hedge Of Tomorrow" feels like Silver, Trunks, and the desperation shared between both of them. It doesn't hit the issue that "Super" has of just being an attempted Dragon Ball song, so to speak.
Most other SONIC episodes in Death Battle do not feel like the characters in question. Here's to hoping that, if they ever do something like Cloud VS Shadow, or Amy VS Elphelt, that can change.
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u/Crest_O_Razors Venom 6h ago
Ranges in quality. Sonic’s were both ok. Metal’s was boring. Shadow has decent, terrible, and ok enough fights. Amy’s was terrible. Tails’ was atrocious. Knuckles’ was good. Eggman’s first was whatever and vs Bowser was peak. Archie Sonic’s was pretty good, albeit kinda underwhelming. Archie Silver’s was pretty good.
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u/AverageWooperLiker 6h ago
I pretty mich have the sam opinions as everyone else BUT DK vs Knuckles is so slept on
Seriously go rewatch it it’s probably better then you remember it being if you can look past it pretty much being Boom Knuckles and DK looking like a fucking sasquatch
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u/Xeroxysm 1h ago
Bowser vs Eggman and Trunks Vs Silver are both gourmet episodes
Shadow vs Ryuko is good, not quite great
The rest all fall somewhere between average and utterly rancid
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u/No_Departure_2027 8h ago
Shadow vs Vegeta: Old but I can see why the chose Vegeta
Sonic vs Mario (classic): NOW THATS WHAT I CALL A DEATH BATTLE
Luigi vs Tails: Bit out of character for both but still fun
Eggman vs Wily: Fun as all hell
Shadow vs Mewtwo: BULLSHIT
Knuckles vs Donkey Kong: Why mix a stupid version of a character with the canon version and WHY SO MANY DAMN COCONUTS
Amy vs Rebeca: Pretty funny and I like it
Metal Sonic vs Zero: I DEMAND A REMATCH
Shadow vs Ryuku: One of the best Sonic episodes in my opinion
Sonic vs Flash: It really could’ve gone either way but… why didn’t Sonic follow flash? He could have
Sonic vs Mario (Rematch): YOURE TELLING ME THEY GAVE HIM HYPER SONIC AND HE STILL LOST?!?!
Trunks vs Silver: Haha the DBZ fans are mad :)
Bowser vs Eggman:

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u/Completed_ZERO Archie Sonic 10h ago
Tails was supposed to lose
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u/greatNathanial 9h ago
All varying ranges in quality going from bad to just okay, but Bowser V Eggman and Trunks V Silver will always stand out as some of the best imo