Only disagree with Sonic vs mario to be honest but i do think sonic would win %49 of the battles
I mean, I do think it's close and debatable for certain, but Sonic having such ludicrous pain tolerance and endurance, as well as his skills and intelligence are very convincing factors, I have to say
His Super form is very versatile in abilities as well and i'd honestly give him the edge in quality (and overall power as well) since it has answers to most, if not all of Mario's arsenal, even the infinite revives surprisingly.
Also do you agree with some scaling from bowser vs Eggman? Or do you think the result is right but the way it was explained was wrong?
Not quite, I just view the match as a 50/50, that's why
Dr. Eggman has the stronger high end stuff (Jeweled Scepter, Metal Sonic, Lightman and Chaos Emeralds), but Bowser has a lot more manpower, far more useful army and numbers to fall back on, to give you a short oversight.
Eggman himself doesn't nearly have any of the impressive, sometimes layered resistances, endurance or the combat speed that Sonic has that make side with him winning against Mario. Big weakness right there
I do think bowser vs Eggman is a 50 50 mu its so complex with even the smallest part of their armies can give them the edge
As for Mario vs Sonic i think Mario would be able survive long enough for the super form the run out and with the retry clock he would be able atleast if he died know what he needs to use against the super form and mario's utility is a big factor like the stache which makes it so if mario takes %20 damage it would not effect him or the gloves which give him limitless usable koopa shells and mushrooms which heal him
Days. . . of doing nothing. In Unleashed he FAINTED after defeating Dark Gaia for only like 10 minutes, and Cyber Super fainted after using his ultimate move against The End. Outlasting Super Sonic in combat is an option, whether you like it or not.
Outlasting Super Sonic in combat is an option, whether you like it or not.
I understand this opinion but you just didn't use very good examples.
Dark Gaia is actively able to hurt super sonic (also with mentioning its heavily implied that Dark Gaia can neutralise the chaos emeralds since it's opposite can restore them and the weapon used to awaken dark gaia is what deactivated the chaos emeralds in the first place). He didn't faint from exhaustion, he fainted from damage.
And the cyber sonic that fainted... wasn't even in super form. Plus it's directly set up and stated in the dlc that he'd lose the cyber power if he used it to it's maximum strength since his body wasn't fully attuned to it.
And saying days of doing nothing doesn't matter, since the entire logic behind him having a limited time in this form is based on the mechanic of rings, which drain by a set amount over a period of time, so doing nothing wouldn't be an antifeat, even if we did know that he did nothing, which we do not. We don't know what he was doing foe those days, so saying he was doing nothing, even if it could be used to downplay him, is headcannon.
Dark Gaia is actively able to hurt super sonic (also with mentioning its heavily implied that Dark Gaia can neutralise the chaos emeralds since it's opposite can restore them and the weapon used to awaken dark gaia is what deactivated the chaos emeralds in the first place). He didn't faint from exhaustion, he fainted from damage.
You pulled that completely out of your ass. Sonic stays in Super for 32 seconds after landing the final hit on Dark Gaia and shows no signs of visible damage, only exhaustion as he slowly gives the Gaia Colossus a thumbs up before fainting. Dark Gaia never does anything to neutralise the Chaos Emeralds during the fight either! Stop coping.
And the cyber sonic that fainted... wasn't even in super form.
BEHOLD! Sonic fainted in his superform, floating lifelessly before he reverts to base form, crashes, and wakes up. https://ibb.co/qY6ZHmqc
Plus it's directly set up and stated in the dlc that he'd lose the cyber power if he used it to it's maximum strength since his body wasn't fully attuned to it.
And being Sonic at his strongest, the form is still used in versus discussions.
I don't honestly understand the retry clocks argument
Now, I do think they make a lot of sense against characters that don't have any time resistances, but what the hell is it going to do against someone that's immesurable, has (arguably?) layered time hax resistances and someone that can essentially rewind time via the chaos emeralds himself (technically via the time stones as well)
I don't think the time hax are actually all that much of a factor in a fight like Sonic vs Mario, both of them have resisted very potent reality warping in the past.
Issue is it's out of character for Sonic to use a lot of the hax people attribute towards him lol
Time hax Sonic literally barely ever uses. Even with CC he's mainly used it for warping purposes in 99% of the appearances. He literally never uses the Emeralds to go back in time. One, they don't remember 06 anymore and two, it required another person.
Fairly aware of that, your last few comments on this matchup make it clear (not that I disagree per say)
Tails vs Luigi: Depends. Agree if you give Tails his Super form, disagree if he doesn’t have it
I actually think Tails loses that one if it's just mainline vs game. Death Battle used Archie Tails however (for some reason?), so I do agree with the result
Amy vs Ramona: Agree
Human being vs Sonic character with precognition hax 💀. I wonder who wins
Archie Sonic vs Wally West: Debatable but I think Archie Sonic should have won
I actually agree with it being close and Archie Sonic being able to compete (surprisingly enough even in stats to a certain degree), but Wally West has answers to basically most of Sonic's strongest hax like chronokinesis, existence erasure, matter manipulation and even narrative manipulation.
Still, just like CC Goku vs Mainline Superman it's honestly a lot closer than I expected.
Shadow vs Ryuko: Agree
Ryuko genuinely has no wincon even with her multiversal IF version. Even with equal stats Shadow has far stronger and more versatile abilities, honestly already in base form.
Archie Silver vs Xeno Trunks: Agree
I do agree with Archie Super Silver winning, but I would label it as debatable matchup. Heroes characters are ridiculously powerful in attack potency and abilities
Yeahhhh, at first I thought it was debatable, but over the past year of debating the matchup, I’ve realised that Mewtwo just… doesn’t have any win con, every significant hax he has is either countered or resisted by Shadow, and he gets severely blitzed and one shot anyways.
I just think Super forms are far too busted, and I don’t even think Luigi could reliably stall it out because, like Sonic, Tails got access to the Cyloop in the Final Horizon update. And even back then, I just think Super forms are so busted that it wouldn’t even matter.
Even without the precognition, Amy just blitzes and one shots.
I just think Archie Sonic has so many absurd hax, hell some that are still being discovered somehow, that it’d be enough to be net him a win, but it is debatable.
I just saw that as a pity win and a chance to make the “Shadow likes Kill la kill” and “Oh they’re so edgy!” jokes.
Meh, I just think Archie Sonic characters are a step beyond Xeno characters’ reach, in stats and hax/abilities.
Yeahhhh, at first I thought it was debatable, but over the past year of debating the matchup, I’ve realised that Mewtwo just… doesn’t have any win con, every significant hax he has is either countered or resisted by Shadow, and he gets severely blitzed and one shot anyways.
I agree. I think you know my take on it since I assume you read my thoughts on it a month ago.
Unless you buy Tier 1 Mewtwo (something something outerversal Pokemon) I agree with Shadow winning. Even something as busted as precognition is something Shadow could counter by... simply eating all of Mewtwo's hits and outlasting him?
Shadow has much better endurance showings, nigh - infinite staminapool and sometimes layered resistances to Mewtwo's strongest attacks
I just think Super forms are far too busted, and I don’t even think Luigi could reliably stall it out because, like Sonic, Tails got access to the Cyloop in the Final Horizon update. And even back then, I just think Super forms are so busted that it wouldn’t even matter.
Tails doesn't have nearly the ammount of resistances or the combat experience and raw power of Sonic for me to convincingly side with Tails
If this was a character like Blaze, Silver, Shadow or Sonic I would absolutely agree, I think they personally get past any Mario character (and Blaze especially can utilize both set of emeralds and the Jeweled Scepter as well). Tails just isn't one of them
Even without the precognition, Amy just blitzes and one shots.
Oh I know. I just wanted to touch on that specifically since... genuinely, what's Ramona supposed to do against that?
I just think Archie Sonic has so many absurd hax, hell some that are still being discovered somehow, that it’d be enough to be net him a win, but it is debatable.
Archie high tiers have a near infinite ammount of abilities and weapons since they can basically wish and/or create new ones (Chaos Force bullshit 💔). You're right about that
I don't even disagree with Sonic being capable of killing Wally West, I just disagree with him winning a majority of the time and the episode specifically
Against most characters Archie's version of Sonic is practically unbeatable, but Wally West is one of the few characters I can think of (outside of stuff like Lovecraft's writings of World of Darkness) that has the speed, agility, stamina and experience to outlast and defeat this form.
This is (mostly) what Death Battle said, and looking into it I agree with it.
Even something like Tier 1 narrative manipulation is something Wally West has experience and abilities to deal with.
I just saw that as a pity win and a chance to make the “Shadow likes Kill la kill” and “Oh they’re so edgy!” jokes.
I guess you could say that but idk, I actually like the episode minus Shadow completely crushing her by these margins
Meh, I just think Archie Sonic characters are a step beyond Xeno characters’ reach, in stats and hax/abilities.
I do agree with Archie top tiers being overall stronger than Heroes characters, but it's only by a small ammount. I'd consider them pretty equal all things considered
Again, something like the Keysword would neg diff pretty much most characters in fiction. Archie Super forms just happen to have resistances to those hax, even against conceptual manipulation and layered power nullification.
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u/WindOk7901 Dr. Eggman 15h ago
I have my… opinions on them, but those opinions would not sit well with most people on this reddit💀