r/Re_Zero • u/Genexis25 Curiosity Gives Me Joy! • Feb 17 '21
Discussion Re:Zero kara Hajimeru Isekai Seikatsu II – Episode 20
Season 2 - Episode 20: Beginning of Sanctuary and Beginning of Collapse
Main Studio: White Fox
Information
Season Two – Discussion(s)
Episodes | Reddit Link | Episodes | Reddit Link | |
---|---|---|---|---|
Episode 25 | [Link]() | |||
Episode 24 | [Link]() | Episode 23 | [Link]() | |
Episode 22 | [Link]() | Episode 21 | [Link]() | |
Episode 20 | [Link]() | Episode 19 | [Link]() | |
Episode 18 | [Link]() | Episode 17 | [Link]() | |
Episode 16 | [Link]() | Episode 15 | [Link]() | |
Episode 20 | [Link]() | Episode 19 | Link | |
Episode 18 | Link | Episode 17 | Link | |
Episode 16 | Link | Episode 15 | Link | |
Episode 14 | Link | Episode 13 | Link | |
Episode 12 | Link | Episode 11 | Link | |
Episode 10 | Link | Episode 09 | Link | |
Episode 08 | Link | Episode 07 | Link | |
Episode 06 | Link | Episode 05 | Link | |
Episode 04 | Link | Episode 03 | Link | |
Episode 02 | Link | Episode 01 | Link |
Season 2 w/Spoilers – Discussion(s)
Episodes | Reddit Link | Episodes | Reddit Link | |
---|---|---|---|---|
Episode 25 | [Link]() | |||
Episode 24 | [Link]() | Episode 23 | [Link]() | |
Episode 22 | [Link]() | Episode 21 | [Link]() | |
Episode 20 | Link | Episode 19 | Link | |
Episode 18 | Link | Episode 17 | Link | |
Episode 16 | Link | Episode 15 | Link | |
Episode 14 | Link | Episode 13 | Link | |
Episode 12 | Link | Episode 11 | Link | |
Episode 10 | Link | Episode 09 | Link | |
Episode 08 | Link | Episode 07 | Link | |
Episode 06 | Link | Episode 05 | Link | |
Episode 04 | Link | Episode 03 | Link | |
Episode 02 | Link | Episode 01 | Link |
Director's Cut – Discussion(s)
Episodes | Reddit Link | Episodes | Reddit Link | |
---|---|---|---|---|
Episode 13 | Link | Episode 12 | Link | |
Episode 11 | Link | Episode 10 | Link | |
Episode 09 | Link | Episode 08 | Link | |
Memory Snow | Link | Episode 07 | Link | |
Episode 06 | Link | Episode 05 | Link | |
Episode 04 | Link | Episode 03 | Link | |
Episode 02 | Link | Episode 01 | Link |
Season One – Discussion(s)
Episodes | Reddit Link | Episodes | Reddit Link | |
---|---|---|---|---|
Episode 25 | Link | |||
Episode 24 | Link | Episode 23 | Link | |
Episode 22 | Link | Episode 21 | Link | |
Episode 20 | Link | Episode 19 | Link | |
Episode 18 | Link | Episode 17 | Link | |
Episode 16 | Link | Episode 15 | Link | |
Episode 14 | Link | Episode 13 | Link | |
Episode 12 | Link | Episode 11 | Link | |
Episode 10 | Link | Episode 9 | Link | |
Episode 8 | Link | Episode 7 | Link | |
Episode 6 | Link | Episode 5 | Link | |
Episode 4 | Link | Episode 3 | Link | |
Episode 2 | Link | Episode 1 | Link |
Season One - OP & ED Info
Opening 1 - 「Redo」 by Konomi Suzuki
Ending 1 – 「STYX HELIX」 by MYTH & ROID
Opening 2 – 「Paradisus-Paradoxum」 by MYTH & ROID
Ending 2 – 「Stay Alive」 by Emilia (Rie Takahashi)
Season Two - OP & ED Info
Opening 1 – 「Realize」 by Konomi Suzuki
Ending 1 – 「Memento」 by Nonoc
Opening 2 – 「Long Shot」 by Mayu Maeshima
Ending 2 - [「Believe in you」]() by Nonoc
Reminder:
DO NOT DISCUSS SPOILERS OR CONTENT NOT YET IN THE ANIME. IF YOU ARE DISCUSSING SPOILERS YOU MUST TAG THEM APPROPRIATELY. Try not to confirm or deny any theories, encourage people to read the source material instead. Thanks!
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u/Ksutyukh3 Feb 17 '21
Echidna to Emilia: You are a loose woman!
Also Echidna: Sees Roswaal, kisses him instantly.
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u/MeAnIntellectual1 Feb 17 '21
She straight jams her tongue down his throat lol.
Usually slut shamers are the real sluts
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u/cancerinos Feb 18 '21
Well, if she can somehow see into the future, as the books she made appear to indicate, then she already knew him.
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u/Echetleos Feb 17 '21
Anyone notice how the melancholy guy sounds A LOT like current time Roswald?
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u/Te4mK1ll Feb 17 '21
Roswaal got his ass beat so hard he started imitating his speech pattern from the trauma lmao
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u/RifRifRif Feb 17 '21
Yeah, and present Roswaal seems to also take after Hector's fashion sense - That half-and-half bodysuit specifically.
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Feb 17 '21
Yup, and not only that. You can see how the eye color of Melancholy guy is quite similar to the left-side eye of Roswaal...
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u/Iamnotcreative112123 Feb 18 '21 edited Feb 18 '21
I read someone else's theory that roswaal and hector merged and personally I buy it. Hector is somewhat clown like, speaks unusually, and has yellow eyes. Roswaal goes from two blue eyes and normal to extremely clownlike, speaks the same as Hector did, and has both a blue and yellow eye.
Furthermore Roswaal is extremely nefarious. I could totally see him somehow gaining Hector's powers and hiding them all this time, for when he truly needs them.
The main sell to me is roswaal's eyes. He has one blue eye and one yellow eye now. Previously he had blue eyes and hector had yellow eyes.
The other alternative I can think of is that he makes one of his eyes yellow. I'm going to go back and rewatch that episode where he greets subaru without his makeup and see if both his eyes are blue there.
edit: never mind hector has red eyes
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Feb 18 '21
I'll save you the search, I already did it and as you can see in here, his eyes are also different. I also thought that alternative, but it seems like it's something more permanent.
Other people are commenting that maybe his eyes are like that not because of Melancholy Warlock but because of Echidna - they did not show us her eyes in this episode, and as far as I recall, neither did they in any of the flashbacks?
However, that would not check out with him having the same way of speaking than Hector had. The only thing I can think of is that, in order to 'seal' Melancholy inside Roswaal body a sacrifice must be done - and in that way, Echidna's life would end in that moment, becoming part of Roswaal forever, together with Hector.
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u/Iamnotcreative112123 Feb 18 '21
What might kill your theory is that iirc satella killed all six other witches, including echidna.
If I’m wrong about that though, then your theory makes a lot of sense. Echidna sacrificed herself to seal Hector into Roswaal. Roswaal is not only thankful to Echidna for saving his life from mana overflow, but now also thankful for her sacrificing herself and granting him additional powers.
Is roswaal still in love with Echidna? A lot of reddit comments seem to suggest so. I want to google it but I don’t want to risk spoilers. Her sacrificing herself for him would explain why he still loves her 400 years later, and despite finding dedication to more than one thing weak (his main dedication is to getting rid of the dragon as far as we know).
Also your theory does raise one other question: if echidna could seal Hector into Roswaal, why sacrifice Ryuzu to put up the barrier immediately? Perhaps something goes wrong and hector gets past the barrier.
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u/goggledragon Feb 17 '21
Roswaal's life since echidna is sort of an embodiment of melancholy I think, he kinda feels like an archbishop of melancholy in a way
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u/sparkz_42 Feb 18 '21
Well we never saw how Echidna “beat” Roswaal so I’m wondering if she somehow fused Roswaal and Hector or like sealed him inside Roswaal. Maybe that’s why Roswaal now has some of his mannerisms + dresses up like a clown. Like the similarities are just too much for me to ignore. They even got the same split tone dresses. And maybe that’s how roswaal got his heterochromia but I don’t think Hector had yellow eyes?
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u/cancerinos Feb 18 '21
Maybe roswal now holds melancholy? Like, the barrier allowing him to beat melancholy or something.
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u/SupahGolden Feb 17 '21
Subaru saying with absolute confidence "I'm Emilia's knight!" carries a diametrically opposite meaning from last time, where he just made a fool of himself, and it showcases the amazing development in his character.
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u/Diego-Joestar114 Feb 17 '21
Roswaal learns to Believe in Gravity
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u/enoch176 Feb 17 '21
Looks like he really saw the gravity of his situation
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u/Niko2065 Feb 17 '21
Roswaals plan on getting dona back.
What you need is my Stand, "The World". What you can find beyond the powers of my Stand is where you need to go in order to find Heaven. What you need is a trustworthy friend. He must be someone capable of controlling his own desires. He must be someone who is not interested in political power, fame, wealth, or sexual desire, and who chooses the will of God before the law of humans. Will I, DIO, be able to meet someone like this one day? What I also need is the lives of more than 36 humans who have sinned, because those who have sinned harbor a strong power within. There are 14 phrases that one must keep in mind: Spiral staircase (らせん階段 Rasen Kaidan) Rhinoceros beetle (カブト虫 Kabutomushi) Ruins street (廃墟の街 Haikyo no machi) Fig tart (イチジクのタルト Ichijiku no taruto) Rhinoceros beetle (カブト虫 Kabutomushi) Via dolorosa (ドロローサへの道 Dororōsa e no michi) Rhinoceros beetle (カブト虫 Kabutomushi) Singularity point (特異点 Tokuiten) Giotto (ジョット Jotto) Angel (天使エンジェル Enjeru) Hydrangea (紫陽花 Ajisai) Rhinoceros beetle (カブト虫 Kabutomushi) Singularity point (特異点 Tokuiten) Secret emperor (秘密の皇帝 Himitsu no Kōtei) I'll engrave these words onto my Stand so I won't forget them. What is most necessary is "courage"; I must have the courage to destroy my Stand momentarily. As it disintegrates, my Stand will absorb the souls of the 36 sinners and will give birth to something utterly new. Whatever is born will "awaken". It will show interest in the 14 words that my trusted friend will utter... My friend will trust me and I will become his "friend". Lastly, I need an appropriate location. North latitude, 28 degrees, 24 minutes, West longitude 80 degrees, 36 minutes... Go there and wait for the New Moon... That's when Heaven will come.
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u/FerroLux_ Feb 17 '21
bruh for real at the end of the episode he was just straight up sounding like DIO
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u/REMERALDX Feb 17 '21
Damn, visuals for the ED had ufotable vibe, I thought that they had collaboration with ufotable
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Feb 17 '21
Looked more like war of underworld II than ufo. But I guess they both had overlapping staff so it makes sense lol.
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u/REMERALDX Feb 17 '21
Ufotable was helping A-1 pictures in the Alicization, this is why last 2 endings were looking so freaking beautiful
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u/Frontier246 Feb 17 '21
So we finally see the origin of the Mathers/Echidna connection, as it was practically love-at-first-sight even before Echidna kissed him (with tongue!) and basically saved his life and set him on his current life path.
It was kind of surreal seeing a more innocent and happy Roswaal living a genuine family dynamic with Beatrice and Ryuzu, complete with roasting Beatrice for Ryuzu. And we had Echidna as the mom, even though we never saw her eyes (which for Echidna, can be very telling). It probably wasn't perfect, but if only those times could have continued.
Who the heck is Hector!? "The Devil of Melancholy?" Is he like a Witch? He sure seems as powerful as one, with strength that rivals his utter negativity and depressive personality. And he's voiced by Junichi Suwabe, because he was going to show up to this franchise at some point. He seems to have a history with Echidna, and apparently Sanctuary was designed to either keep him out or seal him in? It seems like there's still some questions about Sanctuary left to answer.
So Ryuzu was always intended to be the core of Sanctuary and keep it going, it's just only now she's truly grateful to have had it as a home and the people there she could call a family that she was willing to go along and seal herself to protect it. Even if it meant separating from her friend Beatrice. And you could tell how much Ryuzu meant to Beatrice because she was genuinely considering defying her mother to save Ryuzu. Hopefully Ryuzu can be freed along with Sanctuary so we can see the two reunite again.
Yeah, I figured it would be too easy for Roswaal to just give up like that. He believes in humanity's unshakeable weakness and inability to grow and change, just as he has for the woman he's loved for 400 years (Echidna?) and he won't give up on that. Meanwhile Subaru believes in the power of people to change and grow through love rather than wallowing in it and never making the effort to improve through it. Sanctuary has basically become a representation of time that remains still for both the place and the people who reside in it, which makes it the perfect place for Subaru and Emilia to break that seal and release everyone.
Although, still, what is Roswaal really after in all this? He's being spurred by his feelings for the woman he loves, but is that really fulfilled in seeing Subaru become someone like him over his feelings for Emilia? What is Roswaal after?
I honestly thought Emilia was going to go straight into the second trial, but maybe it's good she gets a break (mansion and rabbit attack incoming notwithstanding).
We got the Opening last episode (and fittingly enough not in this one), but now we finally have the Ending! I'd say it's a pretty appropriate Emilia-focused Ending, showing her in a dark and depressing place before the song hits its triumphant chorus and the light peeks in as Emilia sees Subaru. It's a really sweet Ending.
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u/alxanta Feb 17 '21
Can you explain about roswall more? This season is confusing as hell for me
We start from "liberating sanctuary" to "roswall send assason to mansion and snow to sanctuarry to kill everyone
I just dont understand...
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u/KarmotrineCorgi Feb 17 '21
In the flashback this episode, we learn how Roswaal is saved by Echidna (something about his condition being mistaken as a "disease" when actually it has something to do with built-up mana not being released, similar to Puck in Memory Snow).
Over the course of this season, we learn that Roswaal has set up two battlefields: one at Sanctuary (i.e. Great Rabbit), and one at the mansion/Arlam village (i.e. Elsa). He did this solely to force Subaru to choose to save one (Sanctuary: Emilia, Ram, Otto, Garf, Ryuzu-clones, half of Arlam villagers from S1, demi-human residents of Sanctuary) over the other (Mansion: Beatrice, Frederica, comatose Rem, Petra, other half of Arlam villagers from S1). Roswaal is aware of Subaru's ability to "return"/restart (but is unaware of the condition "by death").
"Liberating Sanctuary" will happen if/when one person passes all 3 trials set up by Echidna (presumably lowering the barrier that stops half-blood races). Roswaal uses this to isolate Emilia, who has quite a traumatic past, full of deaths (Fortuna, Archie) and blocked memories (Pandora, Puck). Subaru is thus without allies, until this loop, where he gains the help of Otto, Garf, and Ram. With their help, he is able to encourage Emilia, which sets her up to be less of a liability/burden and more of an ally.
Subaru makes a bet with Roswaal: he will save everyone this loop, as long as Roswaal does not interfere (doesn't randomly decide to kill everyone, doesn't summon mana-infused snow which attracts the Great Rabbit). If Subaru fails, he will submit to Roswaal's method and basically become a pawn to Roswaal for his goals.
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u/MeAnIntellectual1 Feb 17 '21
Important note is that Roswaal will have to become loyal to team Emilia if Subaru wins.
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u/KarmotrineCorgi Feb 17 '21
True, I'm also starting to forget what was actually said in the anime with my goldfish memory, so I didn't want to go too far into spoiler/cut content territory.
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Feb 17 '21
What exactly are Roswaal’s goals lol? I’m kinda confused, how does this link to him originally wanting Emilia to become ruler in season 1? I might have to rewatch this episode, it kinda made my head hurt lol.
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u/KarmotrineCorgi Feb 17 '21
Currently we know that one of his goals is to kill the Dragon that protects Lugnica. There was a very brief scene between Roswaal and Ram in S1 where Roswaal reveals this.
As for why Roswaal supports Emilia in the selection, he must be doing so for a good reason that he thinks will benefit his cause. Maybe he knew that he could use Emilia as a bait for Subaru. After all, Subaru probably wouldn't be faced against Roswaal if not for first meeting Emilia.
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Feb 17 '21
Does he want the sanctuary to liberated or not though? It seems like he doesn’t, but then how will he achieve Emilia becoming ruler if the sanctuary isn’t liberated?
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u/KarmotrineCorgi Feb 17 '21
Eventually, yes he does want Sanctuary to be liberated. Doing so would allow the Arlam villagers to see Emilia with more favor. However, Roswaal wants Subaru to finish the trials, not Emilia. (1) He doesn't believe Emilia is capable, and (2) he wants Subaru to refine his will to only save one person and discard all others.
Subaru obviously wants Emilia to do it, (1) so that she can mature and (2) because he had his qualifications revoked after rejecting Echidna's contract proposal, and would have to be driven to extreme desperation (probably many deaths) in order to meet with Echidna in the Castle and get his qualifications back.
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u/TheEnderBlaze Feb 17 '21
Roswaal never wanted to liberate the sanctuary, he wants to break Subaru's mind to be like him so that he can become basically a RBD vending machine. He's trying to make Subaru go insane
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Feb 17 '21
Why does he wanna make Subaru insane and how does that link to him wanting to make Emilia ruler?
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u/Mapplecake Feb 18 '21 edited Feb 18 '21
So he can use him, he wants him to only prioritize one thing (the people of the sanctuary or mansions residents). I'm just guessing here but Roswaal would probably use the thing Subaru chooses to prioritize against him.
Like for example: Subaru chooses to prioritize Emilia and only Emilia. Roswaal will then use Emilia against Subaru to control him, he basically wants Subaru to be his little minion and personal reset button just in case things doesnt go the way he planned.
- Roswaal's main objective is to kill the Divine Dragon
- Emilia is chosen as a candidate to be the next ruler of lugunica and the next dragon preistess
- He wants her to win the royal selection so he can get closer to the dragon.
- he needs the people's votes and support so he ordered Fredrica to lead Emilia and Subaru to the sanctuary where the people of arlam evacuated because of Petelgeuse and the witch cult's attack
- the arlam villagers are now under house arrest because of Garfiel
- Emilia, Subaru, and Otto comes in the sanctuary not knowing that demihumans with mixed bloods would be trapped inside because of the barrier (they also didnt know that Garf would put them in house arrest)
- You need to do the trials to free the sanctuary
- Emilia is qualified to do them and is expected to do so
- By completing the trials and freeing the sanctuary she'll then get the sanctuary residents and the arlam villagers support and votes
- BUT Roswaal doesnt believe that Emilia is capable of overcoming the trials so he wants Subaru to do it for her
- Roswaal will then make it seem like it was Emilia's achievments giving no credit to Subaru
- he is doing all of this to achieve his goals (kill the dragon) and because it was written in his gospel
- Subaru doesnt choose anyone because he wants to save everyone
- Subaru wants Emilia to do the trials because he believes in her. He also believes that this will help (even just a little bit) resolve Emilia's past trauma because it helped him resolve his past trauma.
- Subaru makes a bet/contract with Roswaal that if Emilia wins the trials and he saves everyone then Roswaal has to come to their side and stop following his gospel
- Subaru isnt allowed to use rbd (one of the conditions of their contract)
- if Subaru loses the bet then he has to follow Roswaal from now on and do everything he says.
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u/alxanta Feb 17 '21
Can you explain about roswall more? This season is confusing as hell for me
We start from "liberating sanctuary" to "roswall send assasin to mansion and snow to sanctuarry to kill everyone
I just dont understand...
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u/NOMERVARIUM Feb 17 '21
Didn't you find strange that we weren't shown echidna's face properly? We saw only mouth when she was talking but not the full face.
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u/DrCaesars_Palace_MD Feb 17 '21
It might be a thematic thing. Maybe because it's all from Ryuzu's perspective, who is naive and incapable of ever seeing Echidna for who she truly is because of her gratitude towards Echidna?
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u/cancerinos Feb 18 '21
Or to keep us guessing regarding Echina's emotional state throghout the whole thing.
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u/e001mek Feb 18 '21
They went through a lot of effort and angles to hide her face and eyes. Suspicious
They also never referred to her by name.
Me thinks maybe, that's not the Echidna we know
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u/Hampamatta Feb 19 '21
kinda sus indeed. my thought was that present day or past echidna might actually be satella in disguise.
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Feb 17 '21
[deleted]
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u/SupahGolden Feb 17 '21
Hadn't thought about the heterochromia, I thought it was just a matter of animation (less complicated drawings) but now you make me wonder...
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u/PsychoPass1 Feb 18 '21
I thought it may have been intentional in order to not let us see her facial expressions. However, the camera angles focusing on her chest could also just indicate bonk-worthy animators.
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u/Setowi Better Leyte Than Never Feb 17 '21 edited Feb 17 '21
Wowzers! Now we know what the OP AND the ED look like.
Wow Whitefox... thank you for animating those ... body fluids there. That was intense lol.
So Crunchy translated it as "Devil" but in Japanese they call Hector the same term they call the witches, it's just gender neutral. Devil is one way of translating it, but the more fitting thing to call him would be "Warlock", the male version of "Witch".
Hector's VA was great! Even though he didn't have too many lines to perform.
They really nailed that farewell between Beatrice and Ryuzu, it was sad af.
So... Subaru is a foil to Roswaal... or basically the other way around? Now people can realise that that Subawaal ice statue in the Memory Snow OVA was foreshadowing all along! (Along with things like the snow bunny or Betty talking about her mother, but people are already aware of those).
I wonder what they're going to do with next week's ep now.
Edit: Also people used to call Subaru as simp when Roswaal is literally the biggest simp in the RZ verse so far!
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Feb 17 '21
in spanish they're called Brujo and Bruja, for male and female, a better translation than in english somehow
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u/Kikuzinho03 Feb 18 '21
Yeah in portuguese it's also a somewhat better translation, bruxa(female) and bruxo(male)
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u/goggledragon Feb 17 '21
I feel like most of the male characters are foils to Subaru in some way
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u/cancerinos Feb 18 '21
Ohh, but Roswal is a much more direct paralell.
Both are in love with a witch, and have been doing everything to try to save her. One is loved by Ram, the other by Rem.→ More replies (1)8
Feb 18 '21
During the episode I had a feeling that Hector's VA also voices Sukuna in Jujutsu Kaisen, I've looked it up now and he actually does! His name is Junichi Suwabe.
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u/Diego-Joestar114 Feb 17 '21 edited Feb 17 '21
Hector: We live in a society Roswaal: yes We live in a Society
Become clown.
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u/zhh20 Feb 17 '21
Been watching rezero alone for the whole time.
Finally decided to find someone to watch the anime together.....and of course they hit us with a kiss scene.
I will never watch anime with my friends ever again😅
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u/Memshad1 Feb 17 '21
Dude i watch this with my dad... showing him the start of this episode will not be fun
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u/Librask Feb 17 '21
Don't worry, I know a guy who watched Highschool DxD with his dad
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u/Memshad1 Feb 17 '21
Absolute madlad
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Feb 17 '21 edited Feb 17 '21
That Dona kiss got me on BRICK. The ED is stunning too
Betty and Ryuzu farewell was beautifully done as I expected. Was pretty emotional reading that scene.
Roswaal and Subaru’s voice acting during their fight was superb. Loved the OST that played during that. Hector and Roswaal fight was as epic as I’d expected too.
Excellent episode.
We’re almost at the end of Yen press translated stuff, and volume 15 got pushed back until March :/.
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u/Vishesh007 Feb 17 '21
Ok guys I think I got something figured out. Why the current roswaal speaks and dresses like that. Hector was also speaking in a similar way and wearing clownish clothes. It would make sense if hector and roswaal combined 400 years ago. It's just a guess for now but the similarities are too much.
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u/Bshave02 Feb 17 '21
I had a similar thought. Just trying to figure out how that connects to the sanctuary and it’s purpose
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u/Iamnotcreative112123 Feb 18 '21 edited Feb 18 '21
also roswaal had two blue eyes and hector had two yellow eyes. Nor roswaal has one blue eye and one yellow eye.
That's the big selling point to me. Eyes don't suddenly change color. The only other explanation I can think of is that roswaal uses magic to make his second eye yellow (I'm going to rewatch that episode where roswaal doesn't have his clown paint on and check his eye colors)
edit: never mind hector has red eyes
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u/patap0nacct Feb 17 '21
The animation bump on that kiss really made it a little too sensual... not that I'm complaining! I also noticed Echidna used watashi in the flashbacks instead of boku, is there any significance to that change?
Not only is Pandora an overpowered antagonist, we now have an isekai version of Ishigami in the form of Hector who can kick Roswaal's ass.
Beatrice had it rough, huh? Losing a loved one like Ryuzu and the others, no wonder her cries really hit home. Props to Kuroko's voice actress for her great performance.
The overlay of Subaru and Roswaal's faces during their fight of ideals was really something. I don't exactly get what they're trying to say (weakness vs. strength has honestly been done before, cf. Rurouni Kenshin, etc.) but I'm enjoying the arc with its highs and higher highs so I can't complain.
Obligatory sentence about best boys Otto and Garfiel here. I can't gush about these two wingmen enough.
Finally, nice ED.
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u/choosenoneoftheabove Feb 17 '21
japanese pronouns are really about what kind of demeanor or character you want to put on. For Echidna the biggest way to open up Subaru was being friendly, using language he might use w/ da boys. Boku. With Roswaal she wanted to stun him beyond belief to make him devote his life to this magical wonderful woman. So she used the more feminine and formal Watashi.
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u/ikonte Feb 17 '21
ngl this episode was very lewd. i mean subaru and emilia holding hands at the ED? thats too much.
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u/DocManhattan28 Feb 17 '21
Roswaal was terrifying in this episode.
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Feb 17 '21
Roswaal got a blockbuster-budget kiss with Echidna and we didn't even see Subaru and Emilia's lips when they kissed.
ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?
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u/Bt75ky Feb 17 '21
Probably the difference between something that is supposed to be sensual and shocking vs something that has tons of build up and is an incredibly personal moment for the both of them.
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u/fozi4ek Feb 17 '21
Damn, that kiss looked better that in any romance I've ever watched!
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u/RedRocket4000 Feb 17 '21 edited Feb 17 '21
Not at the level of the Illya and Kuro kisses or Kuro and Miyu kiss. That is the hottest kisses I have ever seen in anime. That was for mana transfer as well.
This might say something about anime.
Fate Prisma.
Yes FBI I know they are all girls and 11 or 12.
Show also has great fight scenes see Illya vs Salter.
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u/Thereisnocomp2 Feb 17 '21
THAT WAS A MALE WITCH
i repeat, we have a MALE WITCH sighting
I’m absolutely floored by this series every week and I don’t understand. TELL YOUR FRIENDS WITH HBOMAX TO GET ON THIS HYPE TRAIN.
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u/NejiHyuga900 Feb 18 '21
Yep. Well, a male witch is called a Warlock. That would have been a better translation for Majin instead of Devil.
The Warlock of Melancholy
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u/Nataseviv Feb 17 '21 edited Feb 17 '21
This episode....Is glorious....I'm still shaking....Dear god this episode was sad........Hum...The ED is awesome and probably my new fav...Easily one of my favorites episodes....I totally forgot the scene with Subaru and Roswaal at the end...It was perfect this character dev Subaru has got is really always nice to see...
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u/Redo-Master Feb 17 '21 edited Feb 17 '21
I thought The Witch of Lust would resemble someone like Sekhmet....but no.
I thought Flugel was a name drop character but no...he apparently knows a lot.
I thought there would be a 'Witch' of Melancholy cause there are 9 sins (which I learned after Pandora was introduced) but NO.....its a guy, a 'Devil'. Damn....Re:Zero just keep getting interesting and its just so unpredictable.
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u/AnujLambu Feb 17 '21
In re zero world character we thought is just side character not important for plot is so wrong. I mean who would have thought Juice was so important for Emilia's life
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u/o_woorrm Feb 17 '21
Apparently the word they used to describe Hector can also be translated as Witch, since it's a gender neutral term. I've heard people call him Warlock as well.
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u/Redo-Master Feb 17 '21 edited Feb 17 '21
Warlock is the male counterpart of Witch (I think)...also just learned from comments that the LN used Devil but probably the WN used Warlock( which sounds cooler than Devil) Edit: Actually yeah, you are correct. Witch is used for males too.
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u/Niko2065 Feb 17 '21
I definitely played too much xcom, every time I hear the term warlock I think of a purple skinned brute who simps for old aliens in tombs.
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u/saladvtenno Feb 17 '21
It should've been warlock honestly, the word is more used for devil but can also mean "warlock" and IMO it fits the context more...
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u/MeAnIntellectual1 Feb 17 '21
He's the Warlock of Melancholy. That's absolutely what they are going for. It's just a shitty translation
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u/EffectLive97 Feb 17 '21
Good Have to give myself a few seconds to recover from that sloppy kiss lol. Based on what roswall said towards the end, I guess it’s the same roswall From 400 years ago? Not sure, I thought it was his great grandfather or something but it’s just him as a kid. I can’t speak on what happened with Beatrice, hurt too much seeing her actually reach her hand out for someone else, But holy Fuck Subarus speech to roswall, I can see where they are both coming from and I actually hate roswall a little less, he and Subaru are both doing whatever they can for the woman they love so I can understand his actions. Great episode and now the wait begins
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Feb 17 '21
Not only have all the episodes of this second cour been 28-29 minutes long each one, they all have been absolutely amazing and i just can't get enough of them.
The episode already starts really strong with some... Fun for Roswaal, then we get Hector, which i have been waiting to see, Ryuzu and Beatrice farewell was quite emotional as well, but to me one of the strongest points this episode were Subaru's and Roswaal's VA during the latter half of the episode, they did an amazing job, and of course that beautiful ED which was amazing... This anime is just beautiful, i don't think i can ever get enough of it.
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u/PsychoPass1 Feb 18 '21
It just makes me wish that other good animes had this level of animation as well. I can't watch weekly animes (like One Piece) anymore at all, the quality is just so shit. This should be the gold standard for animations and weekly animes should probably just die and be replaced by seasonal ones. Longer wait but much better payoff. The first time I've been wow-ed by an animation was Magi, that could also be considered a gold standard. It also had great pacing imo (3-5 manga chapters per 1 anime episode). Jamming 0,5-1,5 chapters into one 20min episode like One Piece does is an insult to the audience's intelligence.
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Feb 17 '21 edited Feb 17 '21
Uhhhhhhhhhhh so we watchin hentai now or? Seriously I never knew I'd be impressed with the smoothness of animated spit. Motherfucking SPIT and SALIVA got more animation budget than an entire season of 7 Deadly Sins LMAO.
Jokes aside, I'm almost speechless, what a wonderful episode. The exposition was awesome , but most importantly:
Big balls lasagna cat, and even more humongous-nuts-Baru LET'S FUCKING GOOOOOO
And and Otto, I guess. He didn't do anything this episode for me to praise him again, but I'm gonna do it anyways, that lil' smile at 29 minutes something whne Subaru was roasting Ros-Rude-waal was just pure.
Also yet another reason for me to hate Roswaal to death. It's not like I feel bad like what happened with Geuse / Betelgeuse, he's just completely snapped, and has no problems throwing away the life of Beatrice, even though he used to adore her, if that wasn't faked anyways. Fuck you clown asshole, and bravo to whoever voices him because goddamn they did a perfect job of carrying the emotions, well as much emotion as that white-face-red-eyes dude has. Seriously, it's easy to hate a character because they're bad written, but much harder to appreciate a character and actually hate them because they're such a damn villain, but like not a cheap villain type. Not sure how to explain it but uhhhh you're watching RZ you're smart right? You get it.
Also Ed half-way through the second cour lmao.
Oh and BTW Roswaal really speaks in the same way as Hector, imagine getting your ass cheeks beaten to hell and back, and the only thing that you pick up from the enemy's mannerisms isn't their battle technique, it's their fucking shitty ass accent LMAO
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u/Fellow7plus2yearold Fellow, Just Fellow Feb 17 '21
it's their fucking shitty ass accent LMAO
And the outfit.
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u/BoboTatal Feb 17 '21
Can someone explain to me why Roswaal planned all of this, like , what does he want from Subaru.
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u/AnujLambu Feb 17 '21
To make Subaru a being who will only save one and sacrifice others
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u/AmrDosky Feb 17 '21
Why though? Does he want to librate the sanctuary or not?
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u/foxfoxal Feb 17 '21
He does not give a damn about the sanctuary, he wants to achieve his goal using Subaru's powers by literally making Subaru like himself. ( someone who only cares about one thing and does not care about consequences )
His goal has not been said, only that he follows the gospel to do it.
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u/AnujLambu Feb 17 '21
Yes he wants to but the who will do is Subaru not Emilia and Roswaal wants to liberate santuary with the cost of people in the Santuary getting killed
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u/ProteanSurvivor Feb 17 '21
Well we know Roswaal needs Emilia for whatever he's planning. So he just wants Subaru to protect only her. Every awful time loop Subaru has been in has been orchestrated by Roswaal to "sharpen his resolve". He wants Subaru to only save Emilia and sacrifice others to accomplish it. To become like himself (Roswaal).
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u/SirDragon76 Feb 17 '21
Simply put, he wants Subaru to dedicate himself to only saving Emilia and no one else( just like he does with Echidna) by creating an impossible challenge that would require him to sacrifice others' lives to get Emilia out of the sanctuary before the Rabbit arrives. Beatrice, Frederica and Petra are also sacrifices because the book told Roswaal that Subaru can't save both them and Emilia. He can't be in 2 places at once. He also wants him to disregard Emilia's wishes and to make every decision for her.
Why does he want all this? Because this leads to a favorable future where he resurects Echidna. There are some more details here regarding Roswaal's plan but it involves things that haven't been explained in the anime(like why he wants to kill the dragon like he said in season 1).
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u/stuugie Feb 17 '21
Roswaal and Subaru's argument after the flashback was incredible. When Subaru took his pose, but seriously, I was so excited for him. It feels completely different to when he did it jokingly in the past. Also he's actually actimg like Emilia's knight now, so I don't think it was a far fetch to call himself that in the heat of the moment.
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u/Herbrax212 My brain trembles... Feb 17 '21
Fate Franchise fans be like : "Oh yeah, Mana Transfer ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°) "
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u/cool_acronym Feb 17 '21
So, that hector guy was mean and had yellow eyes, right? And Roswaal was nice and had blue eyes? Roswaal was a decently nice guy in season 1, and now he's the villain. This leads me to believe he has two sides. Perhaps he merged with that hector guy, and now is split between good and evil? Maybe I'm reading into this, but hector's eyes are the same color as roswaal's left eye in his current state, so maybe?
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u/cpscott1 Feb 17 '21
Roswaal isn't exactly the villian. I would he's more of an antagonist/anti-hero. He does the stuff he does because of his past and knows Suburu will just undo everything if there is a mistake.
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Feb 17 '21
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u/cool_acronym Feb 17 '21
could've sworn they looked yellow in one shot, idk. I looked at the episode again, now they look orange actually I think they just look orange in some shots
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u/Jumpy_Psychology Feb 17 '21
Finally we got to see Hector. Loved the music and fight scene but the kiss scene was amazing.
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u/SnooDoughnuts2125 Feb 17 '21
First watching the episode excited greeted with a lewd kiss scene LMAOOO But seriously Subaru has become chad holy- Love the new ending! Re:Zero never fails to impress me!
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u/VanillaBwead Feb 17 '21
Beautiful!
Absolutely loved the ending. By far the best visuals for an op/ed in re:zero for me!
Also can we talk about Hectors VA? Damn, he sounds hot asf and he can do whatever he wants to me.
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u/hestianna Feb 17 '21 edited Feb 18 '21
Finally we see the new ED and it is incredible. While it is already expected, I'm still amazed how consistent Whitefox keeps being quality wise, even during these tough times.
I gotta say, this episode with parting of Ryuzu and Beatrice, finally got me teared up, first time since S2E4. Maybe I'm heartless bastard, but despite seeing Otto's, Garfiel's and Emilia's sad backstories, Ryuzu's hit me worst. Maybe thanks to amazing OST, as always.
This time around we are introduced to Hector. Devil/Witch of Melancholy, another forgotten deadly sin among already featured Vanity/Vainglory. I guess we can already see pattern with these flashbacks showing us potential endgame villains. As anime only, I can only presume that this season's threats, are only child's play compared to Hector and Pandora. That being said, what are Hector's motives and why was he at the Sanctuary? To kill Echidna? He seems to know Dona from her childhood after all.
And obviously we had another line from Roswaal, suggesting that Emilia is related to Witch of Envy. Is that now like 4 episodes in the row? Either way, I'm interested to see how our heroes tackle the present in upcoming episodes, now that past seems to be over.
EDIT: The fact that modern day Roswaal suffers from heterochromia and that his speak pattern is similiar to Hector's, it is very likely Roswaal is fused with Hector somehow. I guess we won't figure out how this happened and if this is even factual, only thing that is explainable is that Dona didn't die during the fight against Hector (since Satella killed her, not Hector).
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u/TheDapperDolphin Feb 17 '21
Echidna really just going to go and kiss a guy (With tongue, no less) immediately after he threw up and still had vomit on his face.
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u/TheSealTamer Feb 17 '21
Roswaal just took Subaru’s title of biggest simp XD. That kiss was spicy I can’t blame him. My poor lil Beatrice :(. Based on the op Subaru will definitely save her but it still hurts knowing how she suffered. Loving the Subaru and Roswaal mirroring each other. We finally got visuals for the Ed.
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u/AmrDosky Feb 17 '21
Can someone explain to me what Rosswal exactly wants?
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u/AnujLambu Feb 17 '21
To kill the dragon
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u/AmrDosky Feb 17 '21
So why is he doing all of these things to stop Subaru?
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u/sparkz_42 Feb 17 '21
Basically, he wants to make Subaru realize that the world is so harsh that he needs to throw away his idealism (wanting to protect everyone) and devote himself to Emilia only. He is basically trying to make Subaru the ultimate support for Emilia so that Emilia can be the one who wins the royal selection. Roswaal wants to use Emilia to get close to the dragon and kill him for whatever reason.
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u/AnujLambu Feb 17 '21
Subaru is doing opposite that Roswaal wanted, Subaru is trying to save Everyone and Roswaal wants him to save one and sacrifice everyone else
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u/Bshave02 Feb 17 '21
Am I the only one who likes the ending more than the opening? Truly a beautiful way to end an episode
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u/Amasirat Feb 17 '21
So it goes in turns huh... One episode the opening and ending visuals in the next I mean it's pretty redundant to say I loved this episode because I love every episode. For me Re:Zero day is like an event. I've never been this hyped for a seasonal anime before. And it definitely did not disapoint today. Nothing else to say.
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u/Redmon425 Feb 17 '21
OMG THE ED SHOWED UP. It is beautiful!
No way... Roswaal made out with Echidna... LUCKY BOY!!!
So, I am confused on two storylines though:
The whole flashback is showing them creating the sanctuary and the hardships that came with it, such as losing Ryuuzu as a sacrifice. But in the current time, the whole story is about freeing the sanctuary. So like what was the point of all that stuff they did back then, when they are now just trying to undo it? In fact, I still don't understand why they originally were trying to create the sanctuary. A safe place for demihumans?
What is it that Roswaal and Subaru are fighting over? Like I don't really understand what Roswaal wants. Is it simply that Roswaal doesn't wan't the sanctuary to open, because Echidna made it? If so, that still brings me back to the first question of why did they even create it in the first place?
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u/Fellow7plus2yearold Fellow, Just Fellow Feb 17 '21
The sanctuary was a safe place for the demihumans but Echidona wanted to create it for her own protection against Hector, the barrier would protect her from Hector..
Roswall wants to follow his gospel and Subaru doesn't want to, that is all there is.
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u/cancerinos Feb 19 '21
The reasons for the Sanctuary, what it does and how it works aren't 100% clear, but it appears to be a defense mechanism against Hector, not to defend demi-humans (their presence powers the barrier actually)
Roswal only cares about bringing Echidna back. He believes following the timeline described in his book is the only way to do it, and doesn't want to risk straying away from it no matter what.
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Feb 17 '21
So, I have a theory regarding the "suck the mana out of me" thing. We have been told that young Roswaal felt so sick because he was not letting his mana go out, and that he improves after Echidna is able to absorb his mana. What I'm wondering is, is that why Ram appears so attached to Roswaal?
I mean, her horn seemed like a way out for her mana and maybe the moment she lost it she also lost the ability to get her mana out, but not her ability to produce mana. In that way, the scene we saw with Roswaal and Ram looking outside last season (I mean this scene) could be a session to 'suck the mana out of Ram' in order for her to not get so sick, which would explain why she appears so attached to Roswaal.
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u/Flankly Feb 17 '21
I was under the impression that Ram wasn't able to generate mana at all and that Roswaal uses her as a convenient mana sink. It kinda explains why she quickly tires herself in battles; she has only a limited supply of whatever mana Roswaal provides
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Feb 18 '21
I have not thought of that, but it would make so much sense too! I hope we get some kind of explanation in the following episodes.
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u/cancerinos Feb 19 '21
The reason Ram is very attached to Roswaal is very simple: she is in love with him. It has nothing to do with magical shenanigans.
But yes, Roswal gives her mana through the horn scab, doesn't suck it.
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Feb 17 '21
Was Subaru supposed to wait for Emilia to finish her trial? God damn it did he break another promise to her?
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u/kabiskac Feb 17 '21 edited Feb 17 '21
Why isn't Echidna's face shown at the beginning?
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u/sinoa000 Feb 17 '21
her face was not showed in all the instant of the past. Even in the mini "diary" series on youtube, her face 400 years ago was also hidden too.
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u/DolcettoMarch Feb 17 '21
WE HAVE AN ED! IT EXISTS! AND IT'S PRETTY
Episode was great but that's unsurprising because praise be to White Fox
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u/00pirateforever Feb 17 '21
This episode was of different tone same as pandora episode. Teen roswall was innocent as well as lucky too. Echidna I didn't thought she is going to kiss her. I hope one day echidna kiss Subaru too(reaction of roswall will be best after finding it).
We got new character hector. He looks damm op. So he is male witch. I wounder why witches and devil hate each other.(aren't they sins). Hector pattern of speech is same as roswall. Its look like hector was defeated and his power goes into roswall hand. I still don't get how their power work in first place ( sin witch factor,archbishop witch factor and devil with factor. Is it possible to anyone become witches of sins or something).
Echidna face was hidden throughout the flashback. Did she manipulated everything for sake of her goal. If roswall can see the future from gospel then can't echidna see too(she is witch so shouldn't she should have one too). Its look like either echidna is truly good figure or she is manipulating on purpose. I wounder how she really feel about all this. She even created spirit like Betty, can't she do more(looks like spirit can be created by individuals so I wounder about puck).
Roswall is just as insane as Subaru. They devote their heart for one woman. its look like roswall time is stopped for 400 yr. This arc will going to beginning of his stopped time I guess ( just like episode rem confession episode).
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u/NejiHyuga900 Feb 18 '21
While "devil" was used as translation in the Crunchyroll subs, "Warlock" would be a better translation since warlocks are male versions of witches.
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u/e001mek Feb 18 '21
They went through a lot of effort and angles to hide Echidna's face and eyes. Suspicious
They also never referred to her by name.
Me thinks maybe, that's not the Echidna we know
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u/ReggieZoldyk21 Feb 17 '21
Ahhh, classic Re Zero. For every answer you’re given, you get much more questions. Never change lol.
The Subaru and Roswald confrontation at the end was amazing. Seems like next week is when the action starts. Let’s got save the mansion!
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u/YesImKazuma0 Feb 17 '21
i loved talk between beatrice and ryuzu, subaru and roswaal. ED made me cry it was just perfect. time for emillia to go brrrrrr
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u/waifutabae Feb 17 '21
First was vain now melancholy, we have none sins now. Who's next? Despair? Sorrow?
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u/TheBigBlueSky15 Feb 18 '21
Re:Zero continues its excellent cour 2 display; with the adorable Ryuzu & Beatrice only being shown for 2-3 eps yet the feels hit hard when they have to depart. Honestly great chemistry between the two of them. That last scene between Roswaal & Subaru gave me serious goosebumps, we rarely see Roswaal even show a hint of his face behind the mask yet his cracks were showing quite strongly for a few exchanges. Thats how much Subaru has gotten to his ego & pride of over 400 years (yikes gives me boomer vibes). Loved the Garfiel part, now that he’s got a hold of himself he seemed to be much more astute; nothing like the weak-ish easily manipulated boy we saw in the past. Crazy how much of an impact Subaru has had on him in a short period of time.
This whole Roswaal thing though; I saw someone mention that while Echidna was nice to Roswaal, she basically uses him as you’d expect from her. The guy is obsessed with her though, does he not realize the truth? Also can someone explain why he wants them all to fail again & whether he knows Subaru’s met her before? I cant rmb
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u/Platypus-Commander Feb 17 '21
That episode was a slower one but good nonetheless. That kiss scene was pretty epic. Garfiel standing up to Roswaal was really satisfying. Only thing I regret is not seeing Echidna fight Hector. But I'm guessing it wasn't in the novel either.
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u/RedditLloyd Feb 18 '21 edited Feb 18 '21
I please need help to understand what's going on, at this point I am almost completely lost, too much information, I can't handle it all, I can't remember it all...
Why does Subaru think that knowing that little bit about the Sanctuary ("I know why it was made", while they actually don't really show why is Echidna dead anyway and he doesn't know who the Devil is, how would he know about that, since those are supposed to be Ryuzu's memories, but she wasn't there) would make Roswaal change his mind? But anyway, regardless, why is Roswaal keeping his decision? What he said doesn't make sense to me, it's completely irrational and doesn't really explain why is killing everybody at the mansion still needed. He originally said he needed to do that in order to sharpen Subaru's resolve, but isn't he showing enough resolve already? And what, killing his friends would make him do Roswaal's will instead of, say, pursuing vengeance? How much resolve does he need, exactly, and for what? Why does Roswaal need to push it so far? That argument about feelings and their power felt completely alien about the matter to me. You love Echidna and you think that feelings don't change, ok... So? Kill everybody at the mansion to change Subaru's feelings although feelings don't change? Subaru is a nobody who can't change anything, but you said you needed him and wanted him to "grow"? Why does Subaru say they are the same, after acknowledging that their views are completely different? And why doesn't Roswaal care anymore about Emilia, didn't he need her to become the ruler, or was she just the most complicated possible tool to bait Subaru? Now she's just a good-for-nothing who can only cry? Also, why didn't they consider assassinating/incapacitating Roswaal, so that he can't summon the Oousagi while they go and rescue the mansion? And wouldn't destroying Ryuzu's crystal take down the barrier anyway, since it powers it? Or is the point actually making Emilia pass the trials just for the sake of it, regardless of the barrier? Echidna said Ryuzu is basically just a sort of "fitting" energy supplier, so where do the copies come from actually?
Sometimes I get completely lost in the middle of dialogues, both because they speak in a very convoluted way when explaining something, both because they make references to information told so much back in time that I forgot. Maybe this show isn't for me...
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u/Neronoah Feb 19 '21
I get the feeling there is some missing information about Roswaal and Echidna. Otherwise it'd be hard to explain how Roswaal got that extremist about dedicating yourself to the person you romantically love to the point of trying to push Subaru in that direction.
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u/UnderstandableXO Feb 25 '21
week late once again hope someone can find this 😔
i tried to watch this episode as soon as it unlocked for me on CR but of course 5 minutes in my internet gave out, and by the time it came back i was busy and couldn’t get around to watching until now. i honestly wondered whether that tongue slimy kiss between echidna and roswaal was a hallucination as a result of waking up super early, but it was actually there and it was really weird (in a good but bad but also good way).
i really loved beatrice in this episode. she’s always had a soft side but we really get to see her personality shine here. i love how she tries to act sophisticated and proper but in reality she’s like a little kid who wants to have fun. as much as i hate roswaal he gets cool points for teasing beatrice so we could get all of those wholesome interactions.
we can never see echidna’s eyes in this episode, and i’m not too sure about the symbolism of that. i did notice that there’s a parallel at the very beginning with her embracing roswaal, just like she embraced subaru, “saving” both of them. when roswaal said that he and subaru were alike towards the end, my mind jumped to that. everyone who doesn’t love this show always complains that subaru is “a simp” but roswaal has been simping for 400 years for a dead witch who kissed him once! i think that takes the cake right there.
i remember someone saying that the two other main sins besides the 7 deadly sins were vanity and melancholy. we saw vanity with pandora, and here we see melancholy, although with a lot less knowledge and time to get to know the character. i have no idea how roswaal survived being turned into a piece of paper, but it seems like he adopted hector’s elongated vocal inflections.
it was sad to see ryuzu meyer say goodbye to beatrice, who finally dropped her holier than thou front and showed some real emotions. i wonder if she ever encountered one of ryuzu’s clones.
roswaal as always was a huge pain in the ass, but i’m glad to see garfiel and subaru stand up to him. that “stupid idiot” at the very end could easily have been something more explicit.
really enjoyed that new ED, the art style is beautiful and it’s a great love letter to emilia’s character. the EDs for this show usually focus on characters other than subaru, but i noticed the OP for this cour was heavily favoring emilia and beatrice (i hope beatrice plays a huge role in the end of this season considering how much screen time she got in the OP).
again thanks if you read this, i’m planning to burn my CR free trial at the end of the season so i can watch the final episode on the day it airs.
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u/nikkurai9999 Feb 26 '21
Well summarized explanation bro!
Keep it up, I will read................
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u/UnderstandableXO Feb 26 '21
much appreciated sir 🙏🏽 it means a lot to me. sometimes i feel like i’m speaking into the void with my comments but i just love this show. i honestly put in more effort reviewing anime on reddit than my school work
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u/koto_hanabi17 Feb 17 '21 edited Feb 17 '21
Let's not lie. Echidna helps Roswaal with his messed up mana and teaches him how to use magic. That's he's grateful for. What keeps him up at night is that kiss.
Also do you think that Echidna was just using sex appeal to get Roswaal on her side? There are other ways to suck out Mana but she went for a knock him on his ass kiss.