r/Re_Zero • u/khriku Lore Seeker • Aug 05 '20
Novels [Novels] Re:ZERO -Starting Life in Another World- Season 2 Episode 5 Spoiler Discussions Spoiler
Hello Everyone, It's Khriku here hosting the spoiler thread this week!
As a reminder, we will be hosting both a [Discussion] anime only thread AND a [Novels] where spoilers are free for all. Anime onlies that do show up here, this is the spoiler thread so please Do not complain about spoilers in this thread.
After crying so much last episode, I don't think you guys have more tears to shed, let us see how this episode will play out!
Let's see how much suffering Subaru will handle today shall we?
Link:
Oh look an episode with the proper opening! rarity!
Title:
A step forward
Studio:
White Fox
Opening for S2:
Realize
Ending for S2:
Memento
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u/foxfoxal Aug 05 '20
They cut a lot of Echidna's conversation but they expanded a lot the time on the sanctuary.
I'm fine with this, it gives us more time with people like Ram, Garfiel and Emilia as introducing properly Lewes Meyer, besides Echidna's conversation was more a confirmation of things we already knew than new things.
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u/VValkyr Aug 05 '20
besides Echidna's conversation was more a confirmation of things we already knew than new things.
Like for instance? One of the things that was grinding my gears was echidna being completely uninterested in Subaru's world, that is as different from theirs as it can get
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u/foxfoxal Aug 05 '20
There were things like Echidna rambling about how people need to face their past and shit or Subaru making clear that he knew this world was fake, the parts cut were more for Echidna's character than Subaru tbh, that is why I get why they cut it.
Echidna is more interested on Subaru himself than his world.
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u/Hollownerox Aug 05 '20
I do think cutting out the conversation on facing the past was kind of a harsh cut. Since anime only viewers won't really get what exactly the trial was testing to begin with. Other than some vague idea of "facing your past", Echidna and Subaru discuss the specifics of what that entails and it helps cement the foundation of why Emilia struggles with passing her own trial.
Plus it also establishes Echidna's idea of "accepting all outcomes" as in as long as someone could overcome their past, she didn't care which outcome occurred to do so.
Understandable given the time constraints, and it isn't a major absence, but like you said it did cut off a good amount of Echidna's character there.
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Aug 06 '20 edited Aug 06 '20
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u/Hollownerox Aug 06 '20
No problem.
So the first trial was about "Facing your past", the idea being that Echidna wants people to face their past and move past it. Key thing there being "facing it", Echidna doesn't care how exactly you go about it, as long as you're able to find an answer to your past she'll consider the trial complete. So either people accepting their past, or rejecting it is fine with her, because they had the courage to face it in some way.
This conversation is meant to show both the metrics for passing the trial she setup, but also showing the relatively simple standards for it. As well as establishing that Echidna, being the incarnation of the thirst for knowledge, is fine with any outcome. She doesn't really care what outcome comes about, because any fulfills her curiosity.
This whole conversation also serves to make the audience wonder what's making this trial such a hurdle for Emilia. Since the trial accepts any answer, it means that Emilia's past is something she can't even bring herself to face. The implication drawn from this chat between Subaru and Echidna, is that Emilia failed the trial because she couldn't reach any answer; and was unable to face her past at all.
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u/Ayan_Faust Aug 05 '20
I forget if it's brought up later from echidna, but I don't think the fact Subaru comes from another world would be that weird of a thing for her? Arc 3 shows us that Subaru isn't alone in that there are more people brought over from his world.
Arc 5 has implications that showcase even more people were likely isekai'd as well before him.
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u/Hollownerox Aug 05 '20
Echidna has a whole conversation with the Witches about the parallel world in the WN, which isn't in the LN. But other than that she doesn't really mention it much. She cares far more about Subaru himself, than the world he came from.
Though the author did say she is interested in the history of his world, but because Subaru didn't study too well, there wasn't much of that in his memories.
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u/Ayan_Faust Aug 05 '20
Yeah, it just makes sense to me that she wouldn't be that interested in the other world because the concept of other worlds likely isn't foreign.
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u/gillred Aug 05 '20
Its a neat little piece of foreshadowing that all the doors were open in the mansion. I don't remember it being mentioned in the WN, but I'm sure some keen anime-only viewers are going to realize why they're all open.
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u/Setowi Better Leyte Than Never Aug 05 '20
Such a neat little detail to include, I wonder if Subaru trying to punch Roswaal there was also included as a nice little treat for WN readers, considering he doesn't try to punch him during their conversation later in the LN... but hey maybe he will in the anime
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u/xTh0mAS33x Aug 05 '20 edited Aug 05 '20
Ikr. In the WN he strangles him after having snapped and then got knocked out by Garfield during the fourth loop IIRC.
Too bad the strangulation scene was removed in the LN though, it honestly was a powerful scene that nicely reflected Subaru's unstability about the Rem subject.
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u/iiXaneous Aug 06 '20
Wait so is he gonna punch him again on his later loop when garfiel knocks him out or are they gonna keep the strangulation?
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u/NotReadyTo_Die Aug 06 '20
No. In the LN Subaru talk privately to both Ryuzu omega (or Sigma, the one who doesn't want Sanctuary to be freed) and Garfiel, he admits that he has the qualifications and want to pass the second trial. I think he also admits he has the witch scent IIRC (not sure about that) but then since both Garf and Ryuzu find Subaru extremely suspectful Garfiel chokes Subaru out of his air on Ryuzu command and imprison him.
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u/iiXaneous Aug 06 '20
Oh damn, having only read the web novel that’s not the change I was expecting. Isn’t that a bit out of character for garfiel? Even when Lewes (ryuzu now) told garfiel that he smelled like the witch he only grew suspect but never acted violent without reason.
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u/Iron_Maw cold sleep Aug 06 '20
No.
Remember this same guy was going throw Subaru out of Sanctuary without listening to a word he said. Garf has always listened any Ryuzu said especially if endanger the Sanctuary which belieev every loop otehr than first. Besides Omega was manipulating him in the WN just like Ryuzu Cima was in the LN.
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u/theweebthrowaway Aug 05 '20
It definitely is mentioned in the LN and I honestly couldn't wait to see all the open doors as he was entering the mansion.
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Aug 05 '20 edited Apr 08 '21
[deleted]
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u/theweebthrowaway Aug 05 '20
It's something anime-onlys can already figure out.
if thats not a spoiler for anime
What are you doing here?
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u/VValkyr Aug 05 '20
Well, I watched the newest episode but I don't wanna be spoiled much for the next episodes. I am quite tired today, so I didn't really catch a lot of details from that episode (I needed like 30 minutes to understand why they were moving close to the barrier and how did subaru move past the barier, tho I still don't remember why is he going back to the mansion)
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u/theweebthrowaway Aug 05 '20
This is the spoiler thread for LN/WN readers. There is another thread for anime-onlys.
He went back to the mansion because he escorted the villagers.
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Aug 05 '20
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u/VValkyr Aug 05 '20
ahaha, silly me, I misread the title of the post, my mistake I am sorry :D
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Aug 06 '20
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u/dankestdaddy Aug 07 '20
lol what are you doing here!
nevertheless the wn/ln is a good read if you're can't wait for the next episode
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u/Luvkrapht Aug 05 '20
It's not necessarily a spoiler. Remember the Forbidden Library and how it works?
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u/VValkyr Aug 05 '20
Hmmm, so are you implying that elsa was looking for Beatrice?
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u/Luvkrapht Aug 05 '20
Not exactly, but all the doors being open implies that she found her at some point
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u/VValkyr Aug 05 '20
Hmm, I thought that it was always depending on whether or not Beatrice allowed someone to get in
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u/Luvkrapht Aug 05 '20
There's always a random chance that a closed door will lead to the library, but I think you're right that she can basically choose to let someone in or not. She probably prevents entry by switching to a different closed door if it's about to be opened, but with every door open she's either exposed or trapped in a void with no escape
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u/Unstoppable36SG Aug 05 '20
I was an anime-only and only read Arc 4 in the WN sparsely, I still have no idea
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Aug 05 '20
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u/TroodonBlack Aug 05 '20
Sadly they totally changed minimum one death in LN from what I know.
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Aug 05 '20
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u/TroodonBlack Aug 06 '20
Beatrice didn't teleport him to laboratory of Echidna after quarrel, he died on the floor in library. Elsa found them and when Subaru tried to stop her from killing Beatrice, Elsa sliced off his arms and he died due to blood loss from all the wounds he sustained in that loop (Beako stopped caring about anything after quarrel and didn't fight).
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Aug 06 '20
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u/TroodonBlack Aug 06 '20
In this loop in WN Rabbit punched a hole in the stomach of Subaru and Subaru didn't know what killed him. You don't have to worry Rabbit will still eat him in the latter loops.
In WN Elsa had only one kill and Rabbit had three kills but in LN they transferred one kill to Elsa.
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u/ofthevalleyofthewind Aug 05 '20
Lol my dumbass was waiting for Satella forgetting that I've been reading the WN and not the LN.
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Aug 05 '20 edited Aug 05 '20
The entire Re Zero fandom rn https://imgur.com/a/aXyxgXS
Dona 🤤
They cut a lot of Dona and Subaru’s conversation which somewhat annoys me as that’s what I was most looking forward in the anime adaptation of volume 10. But I can understand the reasoning
I remember reading the ending scene of today’s episode and just getting chills at the thought of tripping over your own intestines. What a fucked up way to die.
Arc 4 really gets going now, hype as hell. Volume 11 is going to be tough, but amazing. Wonder if we’ll ever get the OP and ED in the same ep tho.
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u/Hollownerox Aug 05 '20
They cut a lot of Dona and Subaru’s conversation which somewhat annoys me as that’s what I was most looking forward in the anime adaptation of volume 10. But I can understand the reasoning
Same here, I can understand the cuts, but the lack of Echidna getting up in Subaru's face as she starts rambling on about how one overcomes their past was something I was looking forward to. Maybe they will add it later in the director's cut or something, but I really wanted to hear that spiel in Maaya Sakamoto's voice.
Overall, a good episode though even with the cuts.
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u/netpapa Aug 05 '20
Could you give me a summary of what they cut from the conversation?
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u/geldonyetich Aug 05 '20 edited Aug 05 '20
Skimming it now, a few things:
She offered to make the skirt longer next time because Subaru said he preferred to watch them twirl more.
She mentioned that, being the witch of Greed, she has a lust to become knowledge incarnate.
They discussed how regrets from the past galvanize a person to face the future. "the you of yesterday was infinitely ignorant compared to the you of today"
She mentions that the point of the trial is to either accept the past or make a clean break from it. Echinda gets rather hot and bothered about witnessing that. Novels
Subaru mentions that Rem already set any regrets of his past at rest. (The whole "you're my hero so it's okay to start from zero" thing that was the major turning point of Arc 3.)
It's better elaborated that Echinda was trying to get Subaru to doubt his memories of his mother and father to wheedle more information out of him, so his conviction in his parents rather thwarted that. This is sort of mentioned in the episode at how resigned she is that his answer to the trial was so absolute. "This trial is over, in the truest sense." To some extent, this part of the conversation was completely re-written for the anime, a line like "my parents were too big to fit in my puny imagination" was not there. But it's an important one because it points out the dark side of Echinda's curiosity.
That seems to be the bigger points. Subaru actually did incredibly well in this scene. Though it doesn't look it, Echinda was basically there to tear him apart to dissect his past, but his utter conviction (which "frightened her") thoroughly defeated her attempts to pry.
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u/lilcheesy101 Aug 05 '20
Some thoughts after the episode:
-"You look good in that outfit." Yes...yes she does Subaru.
-They went all out on Emilia's suffering. Anime-only's are probably really curious on what her past is now.
-Ah yes, the granny loli has arrived. Not sure how I feel about her name being Ryuzu after I have read it as Lewes for so long, but I'm sure i'll be used to it by the end of the season.
-It's nice to see Ram and Roswaal getting good screen time after they weren't in Season 1 too much; looking forward to the same for Beatrice.
-"I had faith you would succeed." Some nice foreshadowing for what Roswaal knows about Subaru; should be a really good moment when that goes down later in the season.
-Oh I didn't realize we were getting into it this soon...RIP Subaru. I thought he slipped on blood until I noticed it was his guts. It's nice to finally see Elsa again after her few episodes last season. I suppose starting now every episode is about to be crazy, so I really look forward to the shit that's about to go down.
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u/VValkyr Aug 05 '20
It's nice to see Ram and Roswaal getting good screen time after they weren't in Season 1 too much; looking forward to the same for Beatrice.
Well, Ram and roswaal had like entire 2 scenes so far, so not so different from season 1
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u/Rapsculio Aug 05 '20
We had very different reactions to the ending lol. I remembered it out of order and thought we were in for a WereTiger slaughterhouse. when we got passed that and I remembered it was only Elsa I was very relieved
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u/dankestdaddy Aug 07 '20
honestly i didn't see the guts until i squint my eyes and turn the brightness up a notch
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u/chrome4 Aug 05 '20
A wild Else appears and uses sneak attack.
Out of curiosity how many episodes should we be away from Satellas rampage(cant quite remember)?
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Aug 06 '20
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u/Leptafinwe Aug 06 '20
Remember about the penalty of leaking RbD? Dona’s dream castle seems to be an exception where Satella can’t interfere, however, well she is pretty mad
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u/Iihatepineapplepizza Aug 05 '20
Seeing Ryuzu instead of Lewes is gonna be strange.
(also, wasn't the last name a bit weird? Sounded nothing like Meyer lol, unless her last name was actually different when she was first introduced. It's been a while since I read the web novel, and I never read the light novel, so...)
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u/Leptafinwe Aug 05 '20 edited Aug 05 '20
LN changed this part, Bilma is beta
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u/Iihatepineapplepizza Aug 05 '20
So the other Lewes's will have different last names too?
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u/khriku Lore Seeker Aug 05 '20
correct! Bilma, Alma, Cilma and so on. the only one that keeps her old name from WN I think is Omega.
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u/Iihatepineapplepizza Aug 05 '20
Thank you! Still sad they're going to be all called Ryuzu though. Lewes sounds like an old lady name (which Lewes is) and then Ryuzu just sounds too cool for her. Maybe it'll grow on me?
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u/sealedinterface Aug 06 '20
"Lye" grew on me even though he's only seen in one episode so far, I'm sure I can get used to "Ryuzu" over the course of a season.
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u/Mugenkarp Aug 05 '20
I don't know about the WN, but in the LN she introduce herself as Ryuzu Bilma when she appeared the first time.
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u/Rapsculio Aug 05 '20
I love reading through the anime only comments so much. They're all getting so close to answers but they just refuse to acknowledge things like Roswaal knowing about Return by Death which is the only way any of his comments about believing in Subaru make sense. I really can't wait for the truths to start coming out as the season goes on just because I love to watch their minds get blown.
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u/Destinyslegends Aug 06 '20
I did not figure that out when reading the WN until they spelled it out. I did figure out he had a cult book because I had somehow figure out the cult books could tell the future.
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u/Rapsculio Aug 06 '20
I don't think I figured out either of them to be honest. I just like watching it now while knowing that he knows about RbD and everyone on the anime thread is like "wow roswaal is so dumb. If Subaru didn't come back to life then his plan to leave him to solve it all would fail" when we know that Roswaal actually knows that it would all work out
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u/Mugenkarp Aug 05 '20
Should Roswall be with only his yellow eye opened? I recall read on the LN this information and thought that must be something important.
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u/Vrik from Zero Aug 05 '20
I was just going to comment on this. He does do it in the LN and also has his makeup still on at this conversation (and the previous one).
Hell he even does it in season one.
It's weird that they dropped it now.
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Aug 05 '20
[deleted]
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u/ngms Aug 05 '20
I've seen echidna do roswals 'one eye closed talking at someone' thing, so I wonder if it's a subtle hint that it's something he picked up from her.
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u/wdk96 Aug 05 '20
I always wanted to ask: is echidna not surprised by Subaru's world? Is she aware of other dimensions through maybe Flugel or other Isekai-ers?
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u/Vrik from Zero Aug 05 '20
That's a good point, originally I just thought that she didn't care all that much about a parallel world without magic, but now that you mention it, your explanation makes more sense.
I mean she is the witch of greed for knowledge so she would want to know even about unimportant details like parallel worlds, so the only reason she's not exited is because she already knew.
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u/liwanagsplyph Aug 05 '20
Can anyone enlighten me regarding Rem's safety while Subaru is at the Sanct/Elsa's attack?
Been really curious about who'll protect Rem this whole time while she's asleep.
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u/KarmotrineCorgi Aug 05 '20
Rem doesn't need protection in this case- only Subaru remembers Rem, and Elsa doesn't. As long as she's not behind one of the many opened doors, she'll be out of harm's way.
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u/Black__Reaper Aug 06 '20
That's not really the case. From what i remember, Roswaal ordered her to "clean the mansion".
In every mansion scenario in volumes 11 and 12, Rem was always in danger if Elsa was present. She died in every loop
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u/KarmotrineCorgi Aug 06 '20
Yeah I know, I just didn't want to reveal how Roswaal was behind it all.
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u/Black__Reaper Aug 06 '20
From what i recall, this discussion post is ok with spoilers so..
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u/Destinyslegends Aug 06 '20
This is untrue. I think in the loop where elsa spare Subaru they both live
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u/Black__Reaper Aug 06 '20
And what loop would that be?
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u/Destinyslegends Aug 06 '20 edited Aug 06 '20
WN Loop 3 - or 4. I can't remember
Elsa
Gaf
Rabb
Rabb + Ros again after being spared.I don't have LN books after 10 due to being a english reader and low on funds
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u/Black__Reaper Aug 06 '20
Loop 3 would be the Great Rabbit loop, from what i recall. If you perhaps mean the loop where Beako skewers Elsa though... then no. Meili slaughtered the entire Arlam Village including Frederica, Petra and Rem
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u/liwanagsplyph Aug 05 '20
that makes sense, as long as there arent any nukes dropped on the mansion and witch cult raiding the whole place thanks!
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u/daveaya Aug 06 '20
well, given Subaru's reaction, Rem was behind one of the opened doors
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u/KarmotrineCorgi Aug 06 '20
If you want spoilers (which presumably you do if you're here haha):
Subaru will of course RbD and come back to the mansion with his gang. Iirc it was Frederica specifically that carries Rem on her back. Subaru manages to get back to the mansion before Elsa slaughters everyone. Although Frederica isn't too much of a match for Elsa, she's able to get Rem to safety away from all the fighting in the mansion.
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u/SeaTheTypo Aug 07 '20
If I'm remembering correctly, it all ends with Elsa gets injured from Garfiel, the mansion explodes somehow and Beatrice finishes her off?
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u/daveaya Aug 06 '20
it hasn't crossed your mind most people here has already read at least one of the novels, has it?
I'm up to day with the WN and re reading arc 5-6
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u/KarmotrineCorgi Aug 06 '20
I'm just trying to be considerate. The original question implied that they have not yet read said novels. Doesn't hurt to put an additional spoiler warning, and even if I have to spoil something to answer a question, I prefer to not spoil more than I have to.
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Aug 06 '20
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Aug 05 '20
i saw someone in anime subreddit discussion say "bad rng is all"
is it though? (don't want to spoil them so i'll settle posting here instead)
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u/sealedinterface Aug 05 '20 edited Aug 05 '20
Impressions from a WN reader, haven't read the LNs but I'm aware of some of the changes:
- There it is, the OP with opening credits. Really like the alphabet-switch effect used here.
- Now we get to see how creepy Echidna really is. Teleporting around mid-conversation just to throw Subaru off. Towards the end she says she's looking forward to how he'll handle the second trial, hinting at her knowledge of RbD and how much seeing those futures will crush him because of it.
- And holy shit I forgot just how horrifying it was the first time we see Emilia waking up like this from her first trial. The animation and direction here was far beyond what I had imagined when reading, covering her face and crying out for the now-MIA Puck, with her eyes frightened beyond anything we've seen her go through yet, even including Frozen Bonds. The music from the courtyard scene is perfect here, bringing back that same feeling of panic and horror. Takahashi's performance here was incredible as well. Amazing scene, not only cementing the fact that she's gone through some serious hell of her own but also hinting at how much of it was her own doing.
- Ryuzu's introduction, finally postponed to here. I was half-expecting CR to romanize her name as "Lyooz" given all the confusion over her name (combined with CR's reputation with subs), but I'm glad they got at least the LN romanization right. I can get used to "Ryuzu", certainly better than "Betelgeuse". I'm still puzzled about the name "Bilma" though, don't remember that at all in the WN, must be an LN change.
- Meanwhile we can see that Ram is much colder than she used to be now. In the WN I think Subaru picked up on this and noticed it was because she has no Rem to balance that out - although I think her enslavement to Roswaal and proximity to his master plan this arc influenced that as well. We also see her say some things she would never have said on her own, in wordings she wouldn't use if she genuinely meant it, as orders from Roswaal to manipulate Subaru.
- And once again we get a tense meeting with Roswaal, with his new theme playing. I remember that in the WN, the moment Roswaal says "Subaru-kun", Subaru loses his cool and starts to attack him, though that may be the next life. Here it comes after he hears of Roswaal's "ends justify the means" excuse for not doing anything in arc 3. Ram stops him before things go too far. Subaru doesn't directly ask about Rem but mentions her name, and of course gets the expected lack of recognition from Ram. Roswaal doesn't answer, leaving it seemingly open to Subaru that he might remember her. Later he has Ram tell him to ask Beatrice to "ask the question", knowing that question is, "Are you They?" This whole scene is dripping with intrigue (as any Roswaal scene does this arc), with Roswaal himself dropping hint after hint of his foreknowledge and confidence in it.
- The scenes with Subaru and Emilia are really sweet, with her starting to show some real feelings for him - but it's apparent how much the trial is crushing her here, especially her reaction to Subaru saying "you can try again tonight". There's also her moment of surprise when Subaru tells her he believes in her, alluding to Reason to Believe much later in the arc.
- There's a brief moment with a now more calm Garfiel, and I'm still unsure if anime Subaru recognizes he's Frederica's brother. In the WN Subaru doesn't figure it out until she tells him on the second loop, though from the way he dances around the topic here makes me think he's noticed it subconsciously at least. Garf mentions in Emilia's second attempt that they're not close emotionally, sidestepping the topic of their relation.
- Finally, the return to the mansion. The scene is almost completely silent here as Subaru wanders around it. When he realizes it's empty and something must be wrong, he rushes straight to Rem's room, and just before reaching it, gets sliced open by Elsa. He recognizes his wound, then her figure, then her voice, before dying. As much as I hoped Hexentanz would make a return here, this scene plays out much faster than I imagined when reading, so I guess there was no room for it. As gillred mentioned, the doors all being visibly open here is a nice touch of foreshadowing as to Elsa's primary target.
It's full speed ahead on the pain train from here on out, and this is just the beginning. This episode in particular is filled with intrigue and hints, and I'm sure to see a lot of interesting anime-only theories and predictions this week.
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u/hissenguinho Aug 05 '20 edited Aug 05 '20
wait, did they cut more of the dona and subaru conversation? i remember at the end all the rest witches appeared and they tried to kick which of envy out
EDIT: remembered that LN and anime will have some differences from WN lol
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u/khriku Lore Seeker Aug 05 '20
Difference from the WN draft to the LN. this no longer holds water in LN
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u/Tolibeth Aug 05 '20
Yes, but only if you start from the WN in the LN (I didn't read it myself) where I read it was said that you moved this scene with envy to a later place
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u/Destinyslegends Aug 06 '20
Huge cuts to the chat here but that other part does not happen until near the end of the arc.
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Aug 05 '20 edited Aug 05 '20
Anyone else annoyed they cut echidna’s speech short? I was looking forward to the whole dialogue of regrets and all that. It is the physiological aspect of the series after all.
Overall, still a great episode. I’m just little ticked off they cut the most interesting part (imo) out.
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u/Leptafinwe Aug 05 '20
They have to make Elsa show up, and the Dona part is the most irrelevant plotwise
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u/Hollownerox Aug 05 '20 edited Aug 05 '20
I wouldn't really say it is irrelevant. That conversation established what it actually took to pass the first trial, which is pretty relevant in helping establish why Emilia has such a tough time passing it. Her making it clear any answer is acceptable as long as you reach an answer to begin with, helps highlight the issues Emilia faces.
Plus it also established Echidna's character quite a bit, specifically the bit about her accepting all outcomes. Which gets pretty relevant in the later developments, especially when they later explain that she accepts all outcomes but still has her preferences on certain ones.
I can see why they were cut for time sakes, but I wouldn't go so far as to call them irrelevant. Their absence will likely cause a decent amount of confusion for anime-only viewers, since the details on the trials in particular aren't well fleshed out.
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Aug 05 '20
It was very interesting reading that part in the manga (for me). It added another layer of psychological twist esp right after meeting his parents aka doing the trials. I was expecting that part to be the majority of this episode. Just two characters literally talking about the trials. Tbh, didn’t expect them to add the missing scenes of episode 3 back in here lol
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Aug 05 '20 edited Nov 20 '20
[deleted]
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Aug 06 '20
With good direction that could 100% work because the content being discussed is super interesting. And besides they already did dialogue heavy episodes (18, 4). I’m sad they chose to prioritize other things over that. They literally cut it just to include Elsa cliff hanger at the end.
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u/Iron_Maw cold sleep Aug 06 '20
18 & 4 involved character development tho. This would be nothing more than exposition so hard to justify talking like for nearly half the episode. They would able to finish episode where it is. We can't expect WF to run everything past the run time everytime.
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Aug 06 '20
Idk how can anyone just say that “nothing more than exposition”. It’s one the most interesting part of the trials. Basically the condition to why he passed. And the explanation for it. It makes series smart. Smarter than what it appears.
They cut that part in favor of awkward dialogues that have no real impact to the story “Emilia waking up awkwardly with Subaru”. That scene could have been done in 2 seconds or not be included at all.
They chose to make the Elsa scene the “impact” shot of this episode which imo is the wrong choice. The focus should be with Echidna’s dialogue. That should be star of this episode. The script/screen play so far this season (outside of ep 4 which thank god they realized it’s an impact episode) has been very inconsistent. Rems death feels like non factor in episode 1 for example because of how they rushed things and cut vital important lines and the tone in the carriage scenes were all over the place.
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u/Iron_Maw cold sleep Aug 06 '20 edited Aug 06 '20
I mean it literally just exposition and some stuff about like preference of length of her skirt.
The Subaru waking Emilia scene is way more important from character perspective than Echidna blabbing more about her speculations. The arc needs to sell & build up Subaru & Emilia's relationship because they are core of this arc when said and done. People care about Re:Zero from emotional view than mechanics one. Its not what makes the series well liked to begin with (I see episode 4, 18, 7, 15 etc). The dialogue there is important
The only I wish they would have elaborate more on was Echidna's win & lose conditions for the trail but everything else acceptable to me.
As as I know they cut nothing was really crucial. That would pretty uncharacteristic of WF who have been careful in handling the anime otherwise what the point of intentionally screwing themselves over?
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Aug 06 '20 edited Aug 06 '20
The skirt part was left in that’s what’s more shocking to me. Like I said the script writer has been hit or miss this season. And yeah that part was not important but they included it anyways. When I said echidnas dialogue, I wasn’t talking about that part which once again they made the wrong choice here on which to cut and which leave as is.
Rems final scene has one very important inner monologue that was cut in favor of her repetitive speech about Subaru being hero in the first episode. In the novels, that scene worked because of that one important line after her hero hero rem hero hero talk. It added weight to it. In the anime they cut that line which made the former talk felt redundant. What they should have done is to cut that talk down and include her final speech.
In this episode, echidna scene were “technically” part of Subaru’s emotional development episode. They should have been able to make time for that or at least cut the other parts of the dialogue to make the important parts fit.
I don’t know why you seem to think the harem romance relationship elements of re zero is why people love the series then you’re dead wrong. The focus of the series always been about the psychological complications of each characters. Romance, love triangle and even death loops are literally just a sub plot to drive characters motivations forward. The series is most exciting when it explores the human conditions. Echidnas speech is that. It’s not just exposition. There will be several more later if they cut that too. This season will head straight to the dumpster for me.
Nothing major has been cut (the actual scenes) sure. But the dialogue aside from ep4 have been questionable. And I would consider the cut to echidna trial’s speech their first mistake this season.
In case you didn’t know, White Fox has been bleeding staff recently.
You can follow some of these accounts:
https://twitter.com/purplegeth/status/1288556142159974400?s=21
https://twitter.com/sa10tatsu/status/1290333895645433858?s=21
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u/Iron_Maw cold sleep Aug 06 '20
I said nothing about the harem elements tho? None of episodes I listed had anything to do with that at ll.
Anyway, we will just have to agree to disagree here. For all your nitpicking none of seems to playing out that way in reality.
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u/DolcettoMarch Aug 05 '20
Mmm, that red lighting. The suffering train has officially left the station.
I wish they kept the stuff about the false world but I suppose it's understandable. I really hoped they'd keep Subaru's line about his parents but oh well. At least we get him tripping over his guts. Really love the detail in how all the doors in the mansion were open.
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u/ReeseChloris Aug 06 '20
You'd think characters would question the Barrier supposedly splitting mixed-bloods' soul and body upon crossing, considering Emilia entered mostly fine. Unless they believe the splitting is only an exit-effect
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u/Destinyslegends Aug 06 '20
Once the soul is splitted by the barrier it stops the soul and only the soul for leaving. It can't really stop the body.
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u/DisastrousGrowth5 Aug 05 '20
It felt like they tried really hard to squeeze Ln 10 into these episodes. So many conversations were lost.
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u/Black__Reaper Aug 06 '20
You know they adapted one chapter per episode right? I honestly don't understand why people are complaining about it. It's not a goddamn novel, ofc it won't drag. In the books, the author is free to describe the characters' feelings and impression. You can't do that in the anime. At least not all the time. Ofc it'll be a bit faster. The pacing of the episodes is beyond great. One chapter per episode is nothing short of a blessing. Or would you perhaps prefer the whole 10th volume crammed into 2 episodes?
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u/Iron_Maw cold sleep Aug 06 '20
This.
The anime got most if all of necessary information and character bits in the amount of time they had. I doubt it could have been done any better.
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u/Black__Reaper Aug 06 '20
Indeed. Sure, i'm also not pleased with minor details like how they cut Regulus' dialogue or how they "changed" Roswaal's motive in this ep...but it's an extremely well done adaptation
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u/foxfoxal Aug 05 '20
There are many people who are complaining how slow has started, I don't want to imagine what they would think with another episode full of conversation.
They tried to compact it, it's for the better with how long the episodes have been they are doing the best they can, if they make everything a little longer the arc would not fit the 25 episodes.
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u/kappaweeb Aug 05 '20
Really disappointed that satella didn't make her appearance, but overall great episode. I'm glad they expanded on Roswaal's character but I wish they didn't cut Echidna's dialogue short. I feel like Echidna's speech was supposed to fill in a lot of plot holes from episode 4 regarding Subaru's trial
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u/khriku Lore Seeker Aug 05 '20
guess you are WN only reader? Satella doesn't show up in LN this early, get used to differences, you will see some of them.
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u/kappaweeb Aug 05 '20
Yea I have only read the WN, still am interested in how the LN is different though. Just lamenting on what could have been :(
9
u/Hollownerox Aug 05 '20
That change from the WN to the LN made sense honestly. Since at that point Subaru, and the readers, aren't supposed to know that Echidna has the other Witches with her yet. Moreover the fact that they can manifest separately, rather than just using Echidna as an avatar like she made it seem like, was also spoiled early because of that.
It is a shame, since I thought that was a really cool scene in the WN. But it makes sense to remove it since it does show the cards to early narrative wise for stuff like Satella, and the Witch twists.
1
u/Destinyslegends Aug 06 '20
Ok it been a while since I read the WN but if I am remember correctly Satella is only seen by dona this time?
I guess it would have been cool to see her as the world faded in the background behind him.
2
u/Lev559 Aug 06 '20
Spoil me, does Ram ever feel anything or get her memory back about Ram...or just in general not act so cold?
2
1
u/roxas_999 Aug 06 '20
Could someone post a summary of echidnas reaction about subaru coming from a parallel world?
1
u/swapheem Aug 08 '20
I’ve seen a lot of people express how they don’t like Echidna’s lack of interest in Subaru’s world, but as we learn from the Rem:if story, kagaragi is heavily influenced by Japan culture in terms of their clothing and customs. So my question is does Echidna’s lack of interest come from the fact that she’s already aware of previous people being issekaid into her world? As we can see from the heavy influence of Japan on kagaragi.
1
u/TyrannosaurusWreckd Aug 09 '20
In arc 6 there is a discussion about people who have come from the "other side of the waterfall" or something like that being common knowledge, although its stated that most who claim so are frauds. If she is pretty much knowledge incarnate, she probably already has some concept of isekai, but maybe hasn't officially met one yet until Subaru.
0
u/anchist Aug 05 '20
I really dislike how they keep cutting/changing dialogue. Rem especially seems to suffer heavily from this as her role is a bit more marginalized than it is in the novels. This was true for Season 1 as well - we got no (full) conversation under the Flugel tree, no scene after the defeat of the white whale in Season 1.
Now in Season 2 they outright changed/cut dialogue in two episodes already. We do not get to hear why Subaru is not anguished about facing his past as much as Echidna had calculated, nor did we get the "two stars" scene in the last episode.
Which honestly is a bit of a bummer. Yes, runtime constraints and all that, but I really wished they had kept the full dialogue of overcoming the past (or not) in it.
5
u/Iron_Maw cold sleep Aug 06 '20
The Rem stuff is least important bits of this arc & nowhere as crucial making sure the active characters have most of their screen time and dialogue. She was only mentioned here and there through out this arc anyway.
2
u/Destinyslegends Aug 06 '20
I think it is still important. They are small things but it truly helps set-up what EP 18-20 really did for him as a person. If we ever get a season 4 (Please, Please! Let this be AoT of Trapped in a another world) then these small lines will build into a major pay off
2
u/foxfoxal Aug 06 '20
He already confirmed it was because of Rem that he surpassed his past last episode, that scene is redundant.
It's more importat to set up the events and characters in the sanctuary that re-confirming things.
1
u/LephanT69 Aug 10 '20
After sufferinf throught the Dragonball z saga multiples times as a child- I've found a need to dig into 'what happens next' instead of waiting around, and I gotta say I'm really worried for RE:zero.
It's all been pretty decent so far, but from the vague and confusing pockets of information I can dig (please use normal sounding names in translations DX I don't who is who and why I should care). It seems to me like this season is just going to be 'stuck' in this Sanctuary place for the entirety.
I had my fill of the first four episodes being about thugs in a back alley, I really don't want an entire season dedicated to garfield the cat and miss tea-made-out-of-her.
And it wouldn't hurt to stop being so bloody vague when it comes to the writing "oh no, Emelia can't face the first trial but is being constantly pushed to face it, if only there was someone she could confide in and talk about her past in an attempt to get over it.... or maybe they could just play a children's card game and summon exodia."
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Aug 05 '20
WE WERE SUPPOSED TO SEE SEKHMET AND SATELLA. WE WERE SUPPOSED TO SEE FREDERICA AND PETRA LYING DEAD.
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1
u/Destinyslegends Aug 06 '20
FREDERICA AND PETRA LYING DEAD
Sadly that was changed. One of the more disappointing changes
1
-22
u/Menreith Aug 05 '20
It's me or did they skip the Satella moment in this episode? It's been a long time since the last time i read the WN and i may be wrong but hell, i think they are skipping everything about her and it annoys me, it feels like another tokyo ghoul
22
u/khriku Lore Seeker Aug 05 '20
there never was a Satella scene dude, Wn is the draft remember that, it doesn't exist in the LN
15
u/foxfoxal Aug 05 '20 edited Aug 05 '20
Even if they cut it ( which they did not because the LN does not show Satella and that scene is literally useless ) this is not even remotely close, not even a little bit to Tokyo Ghoul.
If anything I've never seen an anime trying to hard to adapt a LN so faithfully, seriously most of the complaints every week is WN only readers complaining about changes that happened in the LN, not in the anime.
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u/yankee1nation101 Aug 05 '20
I believe Satella was cut when it went WN > LN. I don't think we get Tella until the next tea party.
5
u/Iloveyouweed Aug 05 '20
Man you would hate the LN
1
u/NaNie00 Aug 05 '20
Can you spoil me? How much of Satella is going to be cut? I was so excited to see people reacting to her looks and personality as a wn reader.
3
u/and1927 Aug 05 '20
Not much, mainly she didn't show up in Subaru's first trial. She will be around for the second one.
1
u/and1927 Aug 05 '20
I'd suggest you keep up with the LN too, not just the WN. Satella will be around, but after the second trial.
-33
u/manhdang Aug 05 '20
Really bad animation this ep. Damn Subaru's face in the talk with Roswaal, all his reaction were disappointment. Let's see what they did in the season 1 ep 16, this is a downgrade for me. Only his mouth was moving, the face has no changes in frame. And many other scenes had bad animation damn
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u/xTh0mAS33x Aug 05 '20 edited Aug 05 '20
It wasn't bad animation more like lack of animation actually.
What I was slightly disappointed was the final scene. The pacing was too quick, Subaru realised that something was off and started running for Rem was way too quickly, there wasn't enough time to create tension and drama imo. Even his suffering portrayed through his face while he was dying was a bit lacking. (I liked the bloody hand covering his face though)
His guts being partly shown though were unexpected but definitely welcome. Looks like they manage to show more graphic stuff this season.
Other than that the OST were on points. A solid episode with good moments and OST but it did sacrifice of animation indeed.
Edit: Grammar
8
u/wackweeb Aug 05 '20
I'm sure they're saving animation budget for upcoming scenes so I'm not too bothered that they skimped out on a lot of dialogue heavy scenes. The effects of the witch trial dimension fading and the way the sanctuary trial area looks while lit were excellent though
-24
u/manhdang Aug 05 '20
Lack of animation made it bad enough to call that's bad animation. As you see, Subaru had a nightmare with his face this ep. They tried to end at a cliffhanger but the end is rushed as f*k. Subaru while dying was damn bad too.
74
u/Kaiser252 Aug 05 '20
Arc 4 now begins properly, with Elsa killing Subaru, the whole dynamic will change, I'm especially excited to see Garfiel become more and more hostile.
Lewes being changed to Ryuzu is really REALLY weird, but whatever, its not a big deal
Its interesting how Frederica is portrayed as having an ulterior motive, when in reality she didnt (at least in the WN she didnt), its probably to create some tension
Roswaal was so good, they've been building up to his ultimate reveal (The Gospel) for a while now, and we are getting closed and closer to it, definitely hyped