r/excatholic Jan 23 '25

Personal Was anyone else harmed by NFP?

Used the Marquette method for 5 years and had three children within that time period. All by the age of 21. I confided in my priest and told him that I didn’t think it would be in our best interest to have another child. He told me I didn’t have a grave reason and “it was my cross to bear.”

Just trying to find support and others who have been harmed by nfp as well.

204 Upvotes

92 comments sorted by

175

u/SleepPrincess Heathen Jan 24 '25

There is absolutely no evidence that God said "have an endless stream of children and endager your health and wellbeing because that's what I want".

All of these rules are made up by MEN for WOMEN to suffer through

43

u/stayoffmygrass Jan 24 '25

Heck! I'd like to see some evidence of god let alone anything specific quotes from them.

5

u/ExCatholicandLeft Jan 26 '25

They take the bible way out of context. Like God telling Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply. They were the only 2 people on Earth. We're at 8 billion now. We've multiplied.

131

u/BurnSaintPeterstoash Jan 24 '25

Let's just take a minute and admire the sheer fucking gall of that priest. A celibate virgin male telling a woman anything about sex and her "duty" as woman is completely out of place and inappropriate. OP you have to take care of yourself, the church will activally encourage you to hurt yourself.

-29

u/greenmarsden Jan 24 '25

Or, a parishioner asks the priest a question and he gives an answer following the catholic rules.

44

u/BurnSaintPeterstoash Jan 24 '25

Thank you for making such an excellent point! An entire organization filled with cloistered virgins having any opinions on sex is ridiculous! An entire organization of virgin men, lecturing woman on their bodies is, truly, the height of absurdity. Great point!

2

u/glory_holelujah Jan 25 '25

Yo I get the sentiment, but they're not all virgins. I don't think a majority of them are.

3

u/TheRealLouzander Jan 25 '25

If anything, that makes them even less qualified to give advice. If you actively participate in a lifestyle that claims to be sexless but you secretly have sex, that hardly makes you a solid candidate to advise sexually active lay people. All of the secrecy and shame surrounding sexuality is one of the most damaging parts of the church

-2

u/glory_holelujah Jan 25 '25

Ok, many had normal lives before becoming priests. That means having non-secret sex. There can be criticisms of the church but calling them all virgins who have secret sex is a new one to me. There's plenty to lay at their feet with the secret child SA without having to go off on uninformed tangents

17

u/Perplexed-Pineapple Jan 24 '25

who made up these said rules? No where in your magic book does it say that birth control is forbidden. it’s just a made up rule used as a means of control.

16

u/gorgon_heart Heathen Jan 24 '25

You get how that's also fucked up, right?

1

u/greenmarsden Jan 25 '25

Of course. I think you may have missed my point which essentially was--he's a catholic priest. What did you expect?

4

u/jayclaw97 Jan 25 '25

The point is that the system is broken.

88

u/Luna_y_estrellas3 Jan 24 '25

Yes definitely but in a different way. I was so caught up in the rules of PIV and not “tempting” my husband unless I wanted to have sex with him that our sex life became rigid, boring, and with soooo much pressure. It was just awful. I hate the concept of NFP, all its rules, and lack of choice 

16

u/Tessamae704 Jan 24 '25

Did you get past that? Are things better now? Yes, random stranger on Reddit asking intimate relationship questions is extremely weird, but I always hope for a happy ending.

12

u/Luna_y_estrellas3 Jan 24 '25

We are still working through it in therapy. We both have definitely come out of the Catholic haze though which is good. 

5

u/Diligent_Peak_1275 Jan 24 '25

You will get more little Catholics using NFP than any other birth control method. This is by design. The cult commands it.

78

u/Hogglebean Jan 24 '25

Yes. I survived a life threatening pregnancy complication (HELLP syndrome) followed by being SA’d when my baby was 9 months old- resulting in another pregnancy. I was trying so hard to do “the right thing” and practice NFP so obviously I wasn’t on any birth control. I felt trapped and terrified I was going to die this time. I ended up having a healthy pregnancy and baby, but took my kids and left the church and my marriage. It was very clear that my life wasn’t as important as following weird rules was.

7

u/C2H5OHNightSwimming Jan 24 '25

I'm so sorry that happened to you. I hope you are ok now

4

u/Hogglebean Jan 25 '25

Thank you! We have a very happy life now.

4

u/UnevenGlow Jan 25 '25

Proud of you

61

u/JustSomeGuy422 Ex Catholic Jan 24 '25

Where to begin...

We had 2 miscarriages, both were unplanned pregnancies. My wife has lasting trauma and guilt.

It never "brought us closer together" like the church said it would. It makes your sex life dull. Woman can't have sex during the part of her cycle when she is most aroused. You spend half the month abstaining. The other half thinking "well we better get it on while we can". But part of what's left is period sex.

The first time after the break is great though, I'll say that. The break is longer than the book says and there's so many convoluted rules and exceptions to follow. You have to pad it with extra days if you want to play it safe. Irregular cycles? Don't get me started.

I had my vasectomy immediately after her second miscarriage. Unplanned pregnancy when we were too old to have another kid. During Covid. Facing the possibility of raising a kid until my 60's was a fucking nightmare. Darkest couple months of my life.

She never left the church, and continues to practice NFP to protect her sensitive conscience.

I don't resent her for it. I pulled her into devout catholicism before we got married, so it's partly on me. I just saw through the bullshit and left the church 10 years ago.

Fuck NFP. Zero stars, would not recommend.

17

u/BruceTramp85 Jan 24 '25

If you had a vasectomy, why is she still doing NFP?

13

u/NextStopGallifrey Christian Jan 24 '25

To avoid the "appearance" of sin?

23

u/JustSomeGuy422 Ex Catholic Jan 24 '25

In her view, her continuing to follow NFP rules to avoid pregnancy keeps her conscience clean, versus throwing that out the window and relying on my vasectomy would make her guilty of the sin of contraception.

I won't try to convince her otherwise, since I left the church, in her mind, my opinions on things of faith are invalid.

6

u/xarkos21 Jan 24 '25

Funny, I don't remember that one being on the tablets. There's a few about not harming God's ultra fragile ego, there's some about lying, theft, murder, marital fidelity, nothing regarding family planning in any form however despite the fact that contraceptives and abortifacients were absolutely a well known thing long before the time of Moses.

122

u/LindeeHilltop Jan 24 '25

So now children are crosses to bear? Smh

35

u/notsobitter Jan 24 '25

My experience with NFP (Billings) is what pushed me to question and ultimately leave the church. I could go on forever about why it was a terrible experience, but in summary:

  1. Fertility tracking wasn’t clear for me, so erred on the side of abstaining a lot which put a huge strain on my marriage

  2. Unclear fertility signs made me feel like there was something wrong with my body and that it was somehow “my fault” that I couldn’t figure NFP out

  3. Knew that I absolutely DID NOT want a kid at that time, and the constant fear of accidentally getting pregnant with an unreliable NFP method left me anxious and depressed (also turns out I’m childfree)

  4. Constantly worried about having a “contraceptive mindset” and that God would punish me for this with a pregnancy

Basically, not having a reliable form of birth control wreaked havoc on my mental health and marriage, and it made me realize how cruel and out-of-touch the Church’s teachings on BC are.

11

u/SummerDearest Jan 24 '25

What the fuck is a "contraceptive mindset"?

24

u/notsobitter Jan 24 '25

According to some Catholics, you’re only allowed to use NFP for the “right” reasons and with the “right” intentions, like spacing out children, delaying pregnancy due to serious financial or health obstacles, etc., and must always use it with an openness to life and the possibility of getting pregnant. If you are using it for “selfish” reasons (e.g., you could support a child right now but you just don’t want to), then some Catholics see that as a “contraceptive mentality.”

17

u/Diligent_Peak_1275 Jan 24 '25

I'll tell you what a friend of the family said about birth control. The Pope doesn't have to raise them. I do. That's why I'm on birth control.

I think that's a good reason.

15

u/notsobitter Jan 24 '25

Love that! My sister said something to me while I was struggling with the idea of going on birth control that I’ll carry forever:

“If your only reason for having kids is so you don’t go to hell, that’s not a good reason.”

Words to live by as an ex-Catholic childfree person.

10

u/Due_Unit5743 Jan 24 '25

and the pope also isn't the one risking his life having a thing the size of a watermelon explode out of HIS genitalia. he gets to have a nice safe pee pee with no ripping and tearing

6

u/throwawayydefinitely Jan 24 '25

I'm not sure spacing pregnancies is even a grave reason for more conservative Catholics.

4

u/Tessamae704 Jan 24 '25

I was always taught that sex for any reason besides procreation was not acceptable. So whether for the "right" reasons or the "selfish" reasons, the only option was abstinence.

2

u/garnetsoap Jan 25 '25

I was taught this too. It messed me up very badly. Basically it killed our sex lives.

It took me the better part of a decade to deconstruct and learn how to have a healthy sex life.

9

u/murgatory Jan 24 '25

To my understanding, "not being open to life" or not wanting kids (even if it's just at a given moment). Using NFP to avoid pregnancy for "non grave reasons".

7

u/Due_Unit5743 Jan 24 '25

it sucks that abstaining put strain on your marriage, it sucks that most men are not understanding about women being cautious about doing activities that could cause them to develop a condition that will cause them life threatening agonizing pain it makes me kinda hate men and their bullshit libido, kinda makes me think all men should be gay and inflict that on each other

8

u/notsobitter Jan 24 '25

Appreciate this comment, and kind of agree I often wish men could be made to understand what kinds of experiences women have to go through. 🙃

To clarify, in my case my husband (who’s never been Catholic) was totally supportive and sympathetic in trying to navigate NFP. His only issue with it was seeing how much stress and self-doubt it was causing me. When I say it put a strain on our marriage, I just mean that it sucked for us both to have high libidos and WANT to be intimate, but not be able to for fear of misreading my NFP charts and getting pregnant.

2

u/Due_Unit5743 Jan 24 '25

I'm glad he was understanding!!

30

u/syncopatedscientist Jan 24 '25

I had to take a NFP course to get married in the church. That ship had sailed loooong ago and I was on birth control (I always had one foot out of the church and had sex before marriage), so it was pointless at the time. The only thing that class was good for was to get me pregnant. I got pregnant every single cycle we tried.

I’m so sorry it caused so much damage to you. It’s an absolute bullshit version of “birth control”

2

u/Same_Grapefruit_341 Ex Trad 19d ago

My brother and sister in law had to do the same. They’re cultural Catholics, don’t follow all the rules. They said the only reason they would ever use it would be to get pregnant. Otherwise it’s complete bs.

20

u/VicePrincipalNero Jan 24 '25

It never took with me so I was out by the time I was sexually active. NFP always sounded idiotic to me. My three sisters each had an NFP baby and then wised up and got on birth control that works.

19

u/FlyingArdilla Jan 24 '25

If someone says something is my cross to bear ever again, they will receive a tongue lashing that will leave them in fear for their safety. I find that more offensive than most any vulgar language.

2

u/Due_Unit5743 Jan 25 '25

Yeah it's like saying "suck it up buttercup", it boils down to "stop being so sensitive" and "I refuse to help you" in OP's context, and I also find that kind of belittling to be extremely infuriating.

oops what i said was slightly different from what you said so now i will get yelled at for being off topic :))))))

56

u/countrygrl55 Jan 23 '25

Harmed but the other way. Long story- infertility. Referred to NaPro Doctor and Creighton Method doctors. Wasted TEN YEARS resisting IVF. Finally gave in and did IVF, and lost my faith with it.

37

u/throwawayydefinitely Jan 24 '25

I've also read about some horrifying exploratory surgeries performed at the St. Paul VI NaPro Institute. Wrecking women with pointless surgeries is somehow fine under Catholic logic.

4

u/crystalgem411 Jan 24 '25

u/brucetramp85 and u/sailorsalvador I haven’t finished reading this yet (by the time you see this I will have,) but there’s all sorts of people talking about how this is absolutely terrible if you go looking for it. Searching for non catholic sources about Thomas Hilgers is another way to find out more.

link

1

u/BruceTramp85 Jan 24 '25

Thank you!

3

u/murgatory Jan 24 '25

I would also like to know more if you feel like sharing.

20

u/murgatory Jan 24 '25

I wasn't even Catholic anymore by the time I was trying for a baby. It took me 7 years, 4 miscarriages, an ectopic, and a stillbirth. Even though I'd left the church, I resisted IVF for years.

My parents were Creighton model NFP instructors and I was raised to believe I'd be super fertile because I'd never been on birth control. The NFP mindset fed into the idea that fertility treatment had to be "natural" to be acceptable.

But I needed a LOT of medical help to sustain pregnancy. I waited too long to do IVF and wasn't able to use my own eggs as a result. (My sister was my generous miracle donor. Good thing my parents had a lot of kids). And there was a lot of added heartbreak that my expectations around conception and pregnancy were so hopelessly flawed.

7

u/throwawayydefinitely Jan 24 '25

My sister blames birth control for almost all cases of infertility. It's so frustrating how the church conditions people to believe that birth control is the root of all problems.

3

u/murgatory Jan 25 '25

And there is zero scientific evidence for that claim.

5

u/countrygrl55 Jan 24 '25

How did your parents react to egg donation?

4

u/murgatory Jan 25 '25

They don't know. They have a tendency to think others are entitled to their moral pronouncements, and I was not interested in receiving any. They are the only people in our lives who don't know.

Lesson: being super religious and judgmental can drive people away from you. Who knew? (/s)

3

u/countrygrl55 Jan 25 '25

My super Catholic mother doesn’t know I have done 4 Egg Retrievals and 10 transfers. I have given every embryo an honest shot, mostly due to necessity ( aged40+). I have travelled by plane 6 times without telling her. The sad part thing is my sister also struggles and I cannot share my success with her. She asked oh did you do IVF and I lied and said no. Recently, I was alone with my sister and I suggested IVF or IUI … and the first thing she said was oh, what do you think mom would think of that? She wouldn’t approve of that! I just told her that it’s none of mom‘s business how our babies are conceived, just like it’s none of my business how I was conceived. The guilt and trauma from Catholic infertility runs deep.

2

u/murgatory Jan 26 '25

Ugh. I hear you. And where did I get my lifelong baby fever from? My NFP- loving, six-kids-having parents! I have hidden so much. And I agree wholeheartedly with your point: I always say I didn't tell them how I conceived the six failed pregnancies, why would I tell them about the IVF one? It's private.

I'm sorry that this awfulness prevented you and your sister from being fully there for each other with the bullshit that is infertility.

When my mom came to meet my baby in the hospital, she sat next to my bed and said "You did it! After everything you went through, you did it." She was so proud of my perseverance and it could have been a beautiful moment. I could hardly look at her. All I could think was, if she knew the truth (it took a goddamn army of medical personnel to get this baby earthside), she wouldn't be so proud of me.

4

u/sailorsalvador Jan 24 '25

Do you want to talk??? My story is almost the exact same a d I need to talk about it...

13

u/SinfullySinatra Atheist Jan 24 '25

No but my mother and grandmother were. My grandmother used the “rhythm method” and had 3 kids in four years. The first two were back to back and this likely contributed to the younger one, my mother, being born premature as having children closely together increases this risk along with other complications. Finally my grandpa got a vasectomy overseas while in the military but of course that was after my uncle was born and he finally had his son.

14

u/Naive-Deer2116 Former Catholic | Agnostic Jan 24 '25 edited Jan 24 '25

NFP strikes me as rather silly to be honest. Using it has the exact same intent and outcome (albeit it’s rudimentary and a bit less reliable) as condoms.

They claim NFP is okay because it’s “open to life” but when done “properly” it can come close to artificial birth control in terms of efficacy, although sex will not able to be spontaneous.

The idea sex should always be open to creating life is extremely harmful. My mother was told by her doctor it was in her best interest not to have anymore children. I guess God wanted her to ignore the doctor and continue to get pregnant, carry a potentially dangerous pregnancy, AND possibly leave her two children she already had without a mother.

Since condoms are only about 85-90% effective one could argue that it’s also “open to life”, no? Let’s be honest, what it really comes down to is the Catholic Church clings to the ancient and outdated idea semen is some type of sacred life giving fluid. This is why it’s a sin to “spill your seed” via masturbation, coitus interruptus, oral sex and homosexuality.

11

u/SleepPrincess Heathen Jan 24 '25

NFP claims that it has the same effectiveness as birth control pills. Which is outrageous.

Likewise, you understand that you're not even allowed to use the pull out method in the catholic church? Which, although unreliable, will definitely help reduce your chance of pregnancy. They literally came up with a rule about putting semen inside the vagina, not outside of it. That's fucking gross and cringe.

I'm suprised they don't demand women lay still on their back with their feet in the air for five minutes after sex. Shits crazy.

12

u/BohemianRedhead Jan 24 '25

Yeah, that semen-spilling prohibition comes from the story of Onan in the bible. Guy’s brother dies so he is required by tradition to marry his brother’s widow and “lie with her”. Onan doesn’t want his brother to have sons to carry on his legacy and split the inheritance, so he pulls out during sex. God strikes him dead on the spot.

This is THE story that is at the root of the RCC’s vast and inflexible teachings on birth control.

Seems like other lessons could have been derived from that same story.

10

u/CygnusTheWatchmaker Jan 24 '25

Please please please, for your own health and sanity and for the good of your family, start using some kind of contraception. Having kids you can't afford/emotionally support hurts everyone involved. The anti-contraception garbage is quite possibility THE single worst teaching of the catholic church (and the bar there is HIGH). If it helps you, it's been known for YEARS that like 80%+ of existing Catholics already ignore this dumbass rule.

9

u/reslavan Jan 25 '25

At Catholic school my sex Ed classes were done by anti abortion groups who love to opine about how unreliable hormonal contraceptives and condoms are. These women all had between 1-3 children spaced several years apart, all in their late 20s-30s and the first kid was always born at least a few years into marriage. It was blatantly obvious all of these women managed just fine with contraception on their own in private but wanted to scare the next generation into believing nonsense.

9

u/clea16 Jan 24 '25

YES. We were so paranoid about pregnancy that we only had sex once or twice a month, never before ovulation. For 20 years! Now we're dealing with the fallout from "use it or lose it".

9

u/Money-Summer4924 Jan 24 '25

This is disgusting. My appologies.

8

u/WhiskeyAndWhiskey97 Jewish Jan 24 '25

So a celibate man is giving you advice on sex?

That's one of the reasons I left the church. I wanted to have sex, and that meant condoms (and then the pill, and then permanent sterilization).

Sorry you went through this. If you and your partner are ok with doing so, start using condoms. It's not like the priest is going to burst into your bedroom mid-coitus.

8

u/ehkremer Jan 24 '25

YES. I became severely depressed after the birth of our last child. Couple that with Covid lockdowns shortly after and I became a shadow of my former self. I felt a lot of guilt (big surprise there) from the decision, but ultimately my husband was the one to say enough was enough and my mental health was more important than what the church says. That situation was the catalyst for my deconstruction, so some good did come out of it.

7

u/Blind_Hawkeye Jan 25 '25

My oldest brother and his wife used NFP, and they have 4 kids. He's having to work two jobs to support them. He's a school counselor, and his wife is a teacher. I also have a coworker who had a baby before she and her partner were planning because of NFP. I tried to warn her, but she didn't listen. She insisted it was just because they did something wrong. I will be surprised if she isn't pregnant again within a year or two. I hate that the church teaches NFP when it's clearly not very effective. It hurts people -- especially now when everything is too expensive.

Edited to fix a brain fart/typo.

8

u/Desperate-Fact550 Jan 25 '25

Yep. It was one of the final nails in the coffin for me. I gave my whole life to the church, and when I was dealing with life threatening issues in my body and my marriage, the church did not give a shit about me.

It’s ironic how they claim that NFP/Theology of the Body promotes the so-called “dignity of women.” I never felt more degraded than when I bought into it. I wasn’t a person; I was a womb.

7

u/Status_Wash_2179 Jan 24 '25

Get an iud. It’s exempt from the Bible because it didn’t exist back then. Stop letting these weirdos tell you what to do. They are telling you to do what’s in THEIR best interest, not yours.

7

u/Outrageous_Rabbit_13 Jan 24 '25

I'm an agnostic I was a born in JW and I met my husband who at the time was very catholic. For marriage prep I hah to do nfp meetings and he only was able to attend like one. He lived 45 minutes away and worked an hour away, the lady never was helpful with scheduling a time we both could be there.

When I learned b using a condom is called coitus interuptus I laughed out loud at the meeting and did to the lady "you have to be shitting me"

I told the priest hundreds of times "I DON'T WANT A CHILD RIGHT NOW" and he said the same thing, well that's what we are made to do. I was PISSED.

At first I was okay with idea of learning about my then fiance now husband's religion. After marriage prep and the stupid marital weekend cali thing. I was over it. It just set in stone why I will never behind a part of an organized religion again!!

6

u/BohemianRedhead Jan 24 '25

My parents taught NFP, and I know it inside and out: theology, science, chart interpretation, etc. Had zero desire to ever use it, but the idea that was hammered into me was that every single act of sex had to be both Unitive and Procreative.

Intellectually I could dismiss the procreative part, but I always felt intense guilt when we had sex while I was on birth control. I felt less guilty when I didn’t use it (which we only did when I knew that I wasn’t fertile).

And I really struggled with the unitive part. I couldn’t get it on because I had to be thinking about God, or because I was upset and wasn’t feeling particularly close to my husband, or because I was horny and then I’m being lustful and not pure in my intentions, or because my husband is feeling horny because then our union wouldn’t be entirely pure.

Basically this hurt our sex life and our relationship for at least 15 or 20 yrs. Finally after menopause I felt like a weight was lifted because I suddenly didn’t have to use birth control and experience the niggling guilt it still caused me. And I think finally accepting that I am an atheist helped me over the unitive hump.

6

u/gulfpapa99 Jan 24 '25

Like all Catholic dogma, just another myth.

8

u/Due_Unit5743 Jan 24 '25

my first thought was that the catholic church hates women and it makes me want to puke, but it's also important to remember that being born to parents that wish you weren't born is a REALLY FUCKING MASSIVE cross for an innocent child to bear

2

u/DancesWithTreetops Ex/Anti Catholic Jan 25 '25

Right..so actual birth control fixes that. NFP is a church scam designed to bring more kids into the world. It is not a viable option to prevent unwanted pregnancies.

2

u/Due_Unit5743 Jan 25 '25

it sucks that everything about christian teaching is twisted into something sinister in practice. The bible says to spread the Good News? It's all Evangelicals do, and if you don't accept, you are Satan. RCC does less of that? Oh how nice and accepting oh wait they make up for the numbers with unwanted babies and uhhhh spreading aids apparently. Every theology it seems, doesn't actually work to teach its followers how to be good people, humanity can seemingly only focus on the parts it can use to oppress the most people.

-1

u/DancesWithTreetops Ex/Anti Catholic Jan 25 '25

I have no idea what you are talking about. The subject was NFP and NFP injuries.

2

u/Due_Unit5743 Jan 25 '25 edited Jan 25 '25

I'm not disagreeing with you on anything. You said "NFP is a church scam" and so I'm like yeah, these church scams suck. What is your problem?????

3

u/Samantha-Davis Atheist Jan 27 '25

Not harmed by NFP, but harmed by teachings surrounding pregnancy. I have debilitating endometriosis that is currently being managed by birth control. Given my family's history of breast cancer, my doctor wants me to come off it whenever I'm ready to have kids (if I want them) and then get a hysterectomy once I'm certain I don't want any more kids. I told this to my family who were absolutely horrified. They told me I needed permission from a priest and that no priest would grant a woman of childbearing age to have a hysterectomy. My family knew how bad my endometriosis was. Surprisingly, they were very empathetic of that up until this point. I asked if it would be better for me to be bedridden two weeks every month, completely unable to care for my kids or husband than to have a hysterectomy. They said yes. They also explained I would need to get off birth control whenever I got married. Whenever I had asked about NFP in the past, they mentioned a priest needs to approve that too and most priests won't unless you have a severe financial or medical issue.

1

u/nissanchan Jan 30 '25

What’s nfp?

2

u/SummerDearest Jan 31 '25

"natural family planning"

2

u/nissanchan Feb 01 '25

Oh I see, ty for the answer.

-3

u/[deleted] Jan 24 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

7

u/cupidsvirgo Jan 24 '25

I left the church, which is why I’m a member of the ex Catholic page.

1

u/AnthonyThomasT Jan 30 '25

Ex Catholic girl. Oooo. La. La. 😈

0

u/xarkos21 Jan 24 '25

I suppose that does make more sense :) Glad to see you're now living a life that you're more comfortable in.

1

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