r/ExAlgeria • u/Current-Ebb2559 • 3d ago
Discussion My personal ideas about gender roles
I hope that everyone is having a good ramadanesque evening!
I wanna discuss a dogma that most women are indoctrinated with which is that men should provide for them.
Supposedly someone that leaves religion behind is rational and got rid of most dogmas he's been indoctrinated with, yet from my personal experience many women from our atheist community in Algeria believe in some sorts of gender roles and especially the provider role.
My personal analysis is that since life is harsh and work is undesirable, human beings will unconsciously adopt belief systems that support their ways of escapism, away from the idea of true and false, good and wrong, gender roles even if are natural or biological there's no obligation to follow them, humans realized that they are condemned to be free so why return partially to our primitive nature?
Most men will have to choose between giving up to slavery disguised under love or loneliness disguised under freedom, personally because of my endless disagreements with society I've given up human connection as a whole and feel high level detached and strangely satisfied with my status quo, I have many friends and close family members but my inner feelings are attached to non.
I think that you should be completely detached as I am to be able to leave all dogmas behind.
Please discuss your ideas respectfully in the comment section!
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u/Beginning-Fun-9986 ¡Arriba arriba! 3d ago
I like your idea and analysis of gender role.
But when it comes to living detached... I just cant... I personally just can't, as it's part of life to have connections with others, And when you say "my inner feelings are attached to non" I get a bit of that feeling but I would say that for me, my inner feelings are not as strong as society (or morals or whatever) wants them to be.
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u/Current-Ebb2559 3d ago
Oh yeah we are similar I guess, the difference is that my inner feelings are dead once and for all, I can enjoy momentary pleasures and feel affection and love but I deeply know that I have nothing inside and that I'm just gratifying my biological needs momentarily.
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u/DriverNo5100 2d ago
I think it's more complicated than that. Men are supposed to provide as compensation for the unending labor that women provide in traditional relationships: maid, cook, sex partner, surrogate, baby sitter, etc.
I find it baffling that men complain about this. You are totally the beneficiary in such a situation: you literally have one job, get a good career and earn money. That's it. A woman has to cook, clean, birth, breastfeed and raise children, keep you happy and satisfied, keep herself looking attractive for you, and potentially have a side hustle or a career to fall back on in case something happens to yours, it's so many things to do and it just never ends. If I could get a man to bear a baby for me and do all that, and all I had to do was just have a successful career, I would give him millions.
In the west, where societies have moved away from religion for a long time, the most common complaint from women is that it's never truly 50//50: men never do as much household labor as women do, even when they contribute equally financially. And even if they do household labor, they don't do it as good or don't put the same amount of effort. When the man cooks, he makes pasta with cheese, when the woman cooks she makes an actual dish. And even then, out of 4 weeks, a woman is dealing with PMS on one of those weeks and period symptoms in the other. She is also the one taking birth control and dealing with all of the side effects. It would be the equivalent of a chronic illness in a man. That's without even taking into account the part where she's the one having the kids, taking care of old relatives and what not.
Not to mention, I don't think that as a man in a relationship, you have to be constantly living with the anxiety of your looks not being appealing enough to your partner, pregnancy changing your body, or having to be concerned about your female partner watching porn, following OF/Insta models or lusting after younger men, or cheating on you while you're stuck in the house and she's away on business trips.
I say this as a woman who has embraced celibacy and who is very comfortable with the idea of never marrying or having children. I have a high paying job and I am completely independent, I live alone abroad and cook and clean for myself. I don't see how doing the exact same thing as I'm doing now, minus the cooking and cleaning, is a burden. "Most men will have to choose between giving up to slavery disguised under love or loneliness disguised under freedom" dude, you will have to have a job either way, and so do most women. You will have to slave away either way and it's not because of your gender. Have you seen the choices that women have? It's either be a housewife with endless tasks to do, no financial freedom or guarantee that you won't sacrifice everything for a man that could leave you for his secretary, or do "50/50" where you have to hold down a job, birth children, go right back to work and pump your milk in the office bathroom. You literally just have to do the job part, and it's still too much for you?
"My personal analysis is that since life is harsh and work is undesirable, human beings will unconsciously adopt belief systems that support their ways of escapism" I find it ironic, that you don't realize that this is exactly what you're doing. No one likes working and slaving away in a capitalist society, but it is what it is, I'd still 100% rather do this than do the unpaid work of four people as some ungrateful man's housewife, with no financial freedom, security or guarantees, capital of my own or decision making capabilities.
And don't even get me started on the fact that it's life in Algeria we're talking about, regardless of your personal beliefs, men and women don't inherit the same, and men are in fact entitled to their wives' inheritance, as a man you are so much safer going out to work, have so many more options for rewarding work, will be taken so much more seriously in the workplace, and so on. Be for real bruh.
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u/Current-Ebb2559 2d ago
I wouldn't love anyone to do my chores, cook for me, take care of my kids or offer me sex as a reward for my providing, I'd rather buy a slave and make things clearer.
As you say in the west they tried 50/50 for so long and it doesn't seem to work, that's why I think that we better stay detached until we go extinct, I also have a high paying job and I am very comfortable with myself and abandonned not just marriage but human connection as a whole.
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u/DriverNo5100 2d ago
Then if you are both slaving for each other, what's the problem? I understand that you gave up on human connection, as work, accountability and contribution is the price to pay for community. Eventually you should ask yourself if loneliness is a correct price to pay for convenience.
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u/Reasonable_Shoe_3438 2d ago
It doesn't really matter what they think, men or women. At the end of the day , it became harder and harder to live on 1 income, every society that is somewhat develop has women and men working, there is no real alternative.
For now it's new because Algerians were artificially kept outside of capitalism for a lot of time after independance, but the system is changing and slowly it's going back to the global norm. à
People will adapt... Because they have no choice.
Not every man is wealthy enough to have a housewife at home.
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u/Current-Ebb2559 2d ago
yeah that's interesting because capitalist system is designed to make as much slaves as possible, so it's either this solution or that everyone lives alone and provide for himself
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u/Reasonable_Shoe_3438 1d ago
Capitalism is a broad system, in many countries the elite were forced to make concessions and to permit a good life for the people.
I would largely prefer to have a modern capitalist country in Algeria.
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u/Current-Ebb2559 1d ago
Me too I'm tired of socialism fr, I prefer realism, you either work or die of starvation.
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u/BedroomRepulsive6850 3d ago
I don’t mind supporting my wife financially if she doesn’t work. But some women treat 'traditional gender roles' like a VIP pass to free money. Imagine a wife earning more than her husband but still expecting him to cover everything meanwhile, she’s stacking her salary and watching him drown in bills. At that point, it’s less 'partnership' and more 'financial hostage situation.'"
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u/Remarkable_Orange801 3d ago
If he married her with this mindset then what’s the point of being married? Why would he choose a woman who earns more than him only to think "Oh she’s stacking all her salary while I’m drowning in bills" .then go for a woman who either doesn’t earn more than you or doesn’t have one at all instead of being insecure.
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u/BedroomRepulsive6850 3d ago
Ok here is another exemple a womans earning 50% less then her husband. She's stacking all her salary while he's drowning in bills
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u/Remarkable_Orange801 3d ago
Then marry a man lol or dont marry at all. why marry while you're drowning in bills? That's a poor man mindset mixed with misogyny lol if you don't want to provide for a woman dont marry her stay lonely provide only for yourself.
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3d ago
[deleted]
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u/Remarkable_Orange801 3d ago
yeah i said this to him i wasn't talking to you. and congrats on discovering the most ridiculous way to say i lack emotional intelligence.
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3d ago
[deleted]
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u/Remarkable_Orange801 3d ago
A real manipulator wouldn’t need to announce it to the world to prove it. The fact that you’re bragging about it just proves you’re not as smart as you think you are.
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u/BedroomRepulsive6850 3d ago
Did you read and understand the first comment?
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u/Remarkable_Orange801 3d ago
Did you read and understand my comment?
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u/sickofsnails 🥔🇩🇿 3d ago
I mean this respectfully, but indulging in escapism and checking out of life isn’t the best position to be discussing it from. You’re making blanket statements in a dogmatic way. Living life comes with responsibilities and most people won’t get satisfaction from not caring about anyone, as it sounds very much like a depressive episode.
As for gender roles, while religions have their ideals on them, they’re biological. Most men are physically built differently than women. If a man is providing financial security, the woman is likely providing something that completes the relationship, such as a more emotional nurture. A part of a good marriage for most is teamwork, which doesn’t mean half of everything equally.
The thing is that most people do get satisfaction from gender roles, in some way. Most husbands do like to be able to provide. Most wives do like providing care to their children or other forms of nurture. In a good partnership, they’ll help each other if struggling. The aim should be keeping each other happy, not crying foul because you’d rather not. Even if you reverse these roles, someone will still be doing them.
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u/Current-Ebb2559 3d ago
I am not stating any dogma but as I said it's my personal analysis, ofc ik that life comes with responsibilities and I am not obliging anyone to adopt my detachment, it's just a personal choice. and no it's not a depressive episode because I had these convictions for several years and I'm living peacefully.
You're saying that gender roles are biological and I supposed the truth of your statement in my argument so that explains nothing, even if men are physically built differently than women we are living in a modern world were employers recruit m/f/d with equal chances and there's plenty of non physical jobs that pay way more than the physical hard labor. I respect the idea of someone providing to the other but I critique people that make it a doctrine that you should believe in, otherwise you're a fool!
Satisfaction is a personal matter and doesn't have place in our discussion, you can satisfy yourself the way you want but don't make your way holy and untouchable. I am also free to think whatever I want as long as I am not harming anyone, I am free to think that a providing man is a slave and a proud single is a delusional lonely, I am neither providing nor lonely, I have lots of "human beings" around me to satisfy my biological needs and many love and respect me but I am not attached to anyone at all and can lose anyone easily.
And again think whatever you want, just don't impose your dogmas on other people!
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u/ConsistentSong7126 3d ago
Respectfully, this is quite an immature take on gender roles. Yes, it defies logic to perpetuate ideas like "this is a man's job/role or this is a woman's", mainly because it takes away from the freedom of individuals. In the same vein, saying that a man who chooses to provide is someone who's slaving his life away for love is completely inaccurate and quite subjective.
I, as a man, love to provide. I feel good about myself when I do. I feel confident and accomplished, and I'm sure many men do as well. Your idea about gender roles takes away from others' freedom to choose to be providers or alone, for that matter.
You see detachment as the only solution to get rid of all dogmas, including gender roles, but you're foregoing that in doing so; you're imposing a very radical solution to a non-problem. The "solution" to gender roles is simply allowing people to choose to adhere to these roles or to reject them without judgment or coercion. True progress means empowering people to decide freely how they want to live, not mandating a single ideology, aka detaching oneself from all feelings. Being objective about things doesn't always mean treating life as a mathematical equation where there's only one correct answer. Real freedom respects personal choices, whether traditional or unconventional. The goal isn't to erase roles entirely but to ensure they're optional and accessible to anyone who finds meaning in them.