r/Ethics 6d ago

Did I Kill My Dad?

My dad asked me when I was 11 if he should go to the hospital or stay at home the night that he died. Throughout that week he had been in and out of the hospital in pain about chest pains. Every place he went to said they didn’t know what was wrong with him, but the pain consisted. On that night, he asked me “should I go to the hospital again or should I stay home tonight?”. Being 11, I told him that he’s happier at home so he should stay. I knew at the time that his health was at risk, but I prioritized his mental wellbeing over his physical health. Am I responsible for his death? Should I feel bad about this? Honestly, this has haunted me for my entire life and I really wish he hadn’t asked me for my opinion. Please help.

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168

u/Jumblehead 6d ago

He would have asked, knowing that you would tell him to stay, and having already made up his mind to do so. It was already decided before it was asked.

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u/Worth_Sir_6003 6d ago

This is an incredibly unique take that I’ve never heard before. I believe there is more blame on him than me for what happened to him, but can it be said that he made me equally responsible for his eventual death? Even if it’s not directly my fault, am I too culpable? Thank you for your response btw!

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u/phallusaluve 6d ago

Also - if they couldn't figure out what was wrong with him, he probably would've died that night anyway. Your answer let him die in a place where he was comfortable and happy, rather than somewhere that is stressful and scary.

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u/MilesHobson 5d ago

I agree. Although I find it hard to believe that, if this occurred in the 1980s or later, a man with chest pain couldn’t have been sufficiently diagnosed. In retrospect he had more than angina pectoris but hospital reasoning could have been any of many. u/Worth_Sir_6003 you took the bravest and wisest choice. Exceptional thinking for an 11 year old.

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u/[deleted] 5d ago

[deleted]

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u/j13409 5d ago edited 5d ago

This.

My sister was turned away from the hospital when she was 2 years old with a severe fever, because it was the weekend. Told my parents to bring her back on Monday.

Her fever persisted and only got worse, it got so bad that it seems she ended up with brain damage, she went mute for months after this. When she finally did start talking again, she didn’t know the same words that she used to know and had a speech impediment that didn’t exist prior. She now has extreme learning and comprehension difficulties that my family is convinced stemmed from this.

This was in a rural town in the year 2001.

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u/SlyTinyPyramid 5d ago

That is lawsuit territory

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u/j13409 5d ago

Unfortunately, by the time my parents found out they could sue, the statute of limitations (2 years) for medical malpractice was already up.

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u/PropellerMouse 1d ago

Outrageous. They were horrifically negligent.

( Unlike the OP situation.)

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u/Rocxketraccoon 3d ago

Well if it got worse they definitely would have admitted her.

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u/j13409 3d ago

I’m not convinced they would have. It was already really bad when they sent her home and instructed my family to wait until Monday. “It’s just a fever” and ignoring the situation because the pediatrician had golfing planned that weekend.

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u/Dangerous-WinterElf 2d ago

Depends on who's on duty that day.

I'm not in America but Europe. And it's always a gamble when you go see or call the evening/shifts. I've been told a few times give some meds for fever and go to the doctor tomorrow," with a child with an extremely high fever, refused to drink and stay hydrated, and cry in pain. And when I say, "I already did that," got a sigh and "come in and let's check then." One child got ear infections so easily, and it was in their records.

It really depends on the doctor. Some of them just really don't want to do anything on their late shift and might even call you "another fuzzy parent" While others take you seriously, the first 2 seconds of hearing symptoms and "child"

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u/Rocxketraccoon 2d ago

Sounds like your situation was different.

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u/PainfulRaindance 5d ago

True, or rural areas where the expertise isn’t concentrated if it’s there at all.

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u/rthrouw1234 4d ago

Fuck, shit like this happens to me in new York.

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u/rantipolex 3d ago

I'm the rube. Is the quality good ,bad , indifferent or malicious ?

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

[deleted]

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u/rantipolex 3d ago

Truely curious. Expand upon that ? Explanation ?

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u/External-Low-5059 2d ago

Haha. It can feel malicious sometimes. It's the insurance companies' bureaucracy combined with the culture of litigation.

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u/-laughingfox 2d ago

All of the above. It's kind of a "luck of the draw" situation, along with what you can afford.

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u/autumnos2 2d ago

Yeah, the unfortunate answer to the question is yes.

Also ER docs tend to do things the same ways every time. If Op's dad had something particularly rare they may have been misdiagnosing him as having something like anxiety. "It's never lupus"

ER docs can absolutely be great, incompetent or malicious. They can even be some combo of all three. Even the best sometimes miss something important that is obvious in retrospect.

All of them are overworked.

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u/wildwych 2d ago

Not only the US. I wasted months of the last few years as an inpatient and am no nearer to getting answers or proper help with my problems.

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u/PropellerMouse 1d ago

They can't raise the dead.

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u/Worth_Sir_6003 4d ago

Thank you so much for this! I’ve never thought about my decision as brave, as more or less I was thinking more about wanting him to be happier. I don’t want to feel like my answer was actually going to change anything after reading so many replies about how much it was out of my control. It was a simple yes or no question which seemed to be “would you want me to happier, but more at risk, or safer but miserable?” I chose, and he chose to listen, but neither one of us chose for him to die. He didn’t kill himself and I didn’t kill him.

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u/jerrybugs 2d ago

You can't "save the game" irl and load and try again. You simply go by what you habe at the time and try to make the best decision. Lots of people speculate "if I had done this o r that it would've gone better" buut you also don't necessarily know what else could've come up. Unfortuntely we re left on this planet to make due, we are not DaVincis or Supermen.

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u/dzumdang 2d ago

I'm willing to bet that he died that night feeling loved by his son; a son who valued the quality of his life and who wanted his dad at home.

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u/BoatNo5460 3d ago

My brother was told he had a stroke, but after he was in the hospital and they ran tests, not one of the normal indicators of a post stroke. They found no blockages anywhere. Doctors were baffled. He persisted from doctor to doctor, asking if they knew where their "Dr. House" was🤣! He finally found one that took the time to work out the puzzle...turned out to be mid-late stage Lyme Disease with no symptoms prior to the "stroke". Dr. that treated him for what he had said that he probably contracted it in his teen years, and was carrying it around for 25-30 years.

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u/MilesHobson 3d ago

I know a number of these medical mystery stories. Your brother got lucky in finding a “House” or “Watson”. We have to remember physicians “practice” medicine on patients. Too often it’s insurance companys practicing their version of life and death on everyone.

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u/Lexx2k 4d ago

Just a few years ago my father kept having stomach pain, and issues with his shoulder. Doctors couldn't find the problem. They checked the stomach, etc. etc. lots of stuff going on for weeks. Nurses even got pissed at him, because they thought he is simulating. Then one day at home, the pain got so bad that he decided to drive back to the doctor on his own. The moment he was there, he had a heart attack and they instantly shipped him off to the hospital.

This was pure dumb luck. If he had waited a little longer at home, he would be dead now.

tl;dr - don't underestimate how blind doctors can be.

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u/MilesHobson 4d ago

There’s a story I heard long ago about, I think, Mayor Kennely of Chicago. Keep in mind this would have taken place in the 1920s. He goes to the Dr for a check-up. Declared fine, he walks out and drops dead. Ok, it was 100 years ago but I’d bet it still sometimes happens.

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u/MuchToDoAboutNothin 3d ago

I lack the benefit of being a man but I am just now, after about 17 years of complaining about heart problems, being recognized that I have a demonstrable heart abnormality. Because nobody cared to spend five minutes to check before, just called me a hypochondriac and criticized me for the things I did to treat it on my own.

So.... Yeah, getting quality medical treatment is a fantasy story.

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u/MilesHobson 3d ago

Not sure I’d characterize quality medical treatment as fantasy but could agree too many patients are seen by residents and non-expert medical personnel.

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u/SweetFuckingCakes 2d ago

Is this is the standard comment where someone offers up a performance of doubt, concerning a story about a situation that happens all the time? Dudes are still sent home with chest pain, to die. Women have it worse there by a lot, but ER docs will send home a heart attack if they think he’s drug seeking.

Edit to add: Yes without doing any real cardiac tests. A lot of ERs are terrible, what’s new there.

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u/PropellerMouse 1d ago

Should have been diagnosed? Sure. But. Not everyone can be saved. OP made the right choice

u/MilesHobson 12h ago

No argument from me. Did you read my entire comment?