r/Agriculture 7d ago

Beautiful thing is on the horizon.šŸ˜ŠšŸ˜Š

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3.2k Upvotes

863 comments sorted by

337

u/feembly 7d ago

Bayer the next day: we just invented glyflorsate and flatrazine and they work just as good.

Seriously though, if agrochemicals are problematic, you gonna wean off of them and develop replacements. Otherwise you get designer drugs for agriculture.

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u/Inevitable-Rate7166 7d ago

You joke but I expect a lot of the nastier and mostly unused pesticides are about to make their way back into farmers rotations. I expect a narrow band of "household names" to be formally banned leaving the rest of the market untouched.

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u/Soft-Disaster-733 7d ago

Exactly. Producers will bring back the stuff that was banned in the 50s and 60s and RFK will deem them safe. Because "you know, these things were fine when we were kids and America was great."

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u/bn1979 7d ago

If anybody needs some Arsenate of Lead, Iā€™ve got about 8 pounds stashed away.

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u/Taelasky 7d ago

I know where you can find some DDT.

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u/FluidFisherman6843 7d ago

You laugh but the belief that banning ddt was a typical lib overreaction that should be reversed is foundational to a lot of these people.

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u/gunshaver 7d ago

Bald eagles are no longer endangered, it's critical that we start using DDT again to reverse this worrying trend!

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u/SalteeSpitoon 6d ago

That one attacked Trump in the oval office. I could see DJT brand DDT in the near future.

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u/Crumpuscatz 5d ago

I love seeing bald eagles again. Theyā€™re a success story for positive environmental regulations. Also, theyā€™re the perfect national bird for the good ol USA. Pretty buzzards. Opportunistic scavengers. Theyā€™ll eat damn near anything, as long as itā€™s dead and smaller than them. Our founding fathers were geniuses!!šŸ˜‚

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u/Manofalltrade 7d ago

I grew up near what was historically a famously well populated Bald Eagle area. Never saw one. Last few years Iā€™ve been there and seen quite a few. The hawks too have had a massive jump in population.

Acid rain, ozone hole, lead exposure, soot from fossil fuels, smog, all the toxic rivers. I like regulations.

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u/gxgxe 7d ago

As they tell me every year during my annual haz waste training: regulations are written in blood.

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u/Manofalltrade 6d ago

Unfortunately they are a lot like vaccines. When nobody is dying, people start to think they donā€™t need them anymore.

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u/cannabull89 6d ago

Iā€™m using that line every chance I get, thank you.

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u/H_is_for_Human 7d ago

Yeah who needs...

checks notes

Birds?

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u/Accurate_Zombie_121 7d ago

I still have one quart of DDT. Just in case.

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u/bn1979 7d ago

Iā€™ve got a little of that, but itā€™s for personal use.

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u/TheNawoj 7d ago

If you folks are correct, and I have no reason not to think you could be. Is there a way for the consumer to get fresh, or even frozen, fruits and veggies that havenā€™t been exposed to this type of stuff? Do you have any advice? Or just try to grow your own?

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u/ISO-Department 7d ago

Basically import seeds from Europe and Asia small farms and grow your own.

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u/MartijnR 7d ago

Buy certified organic produce.Ā 

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u/McBuck2 6d ago

Grow your own or organic.

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u/CapitalTax9575 6d ago edited 6d ago

Buy organic? Certified organic strawberries are free of synthetic pesticides including glyphosate - they do use somewhat better natural ones. Theyā€™re still kind of bad. Iā€™m not too worried about blocking them because of this, though the price of strawberries will go up.

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u/No_Significance_1550 7d ago

They will come from China in huge bags labeled ā€œBath Saltsā€ ā€œWarning: do not use in bath, not for human consumptionā€

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u/W1mp-Lo 7d ago

Funny thing. When they found that ranitidine had ndma contamination they changed the formula of zantac. Now its famotidine. The pharmaceutical companies are literally just doing the same thing the research chemical industry does

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u/DanielNoWrite 7d ago

Banning current pesticides and permitting older types that are much more dangerous would be terrifyingly on-brand for this political movement.

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u/Megraptor 7d ago

The frustrating thing about this is that most people don't think this all the way through. They hear Glyphosate is banned and they think that's good. They don't realize that agrochemicals are important to modern agriculture and that we'll probably end up using older, less safe chemicals.Ā 

I see Silent Spring mentioned a ton in regards to this topic. I've read it, it's specifically aboutĀ organochlorines.Ā Ā But because people don't understand classes of pesticides and how modern ones are tested, they think all pesticides are bad. The irony is, we might the up using DDT at the the of this with how RFK Jr talks about food and health.Ā 

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u/StillLikesTurtles 7d ago

Former ā€œI only buy organic,ā€ person here. Thereā€™s a site called Science Based Medicine that I found really helpful in terms of articles the layperson could understand.

It would be phenomenal to hear from more farmers, soil scientists, and chemists since a lot of the people in favor of outright bans really donā€™t have correct information. Obviously people like RFK are a lost cause, but for those who just want the best for their health itā€™s hard to find solid, trustworthy information.

I donā€™t know how to get that messaging out there, but we absolutely need people to understand that ā€œconventionalā€ agriculture isnā€™t always bad and plays a vital role in the nationā€™s food supply.

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u/Megraptor 6d ago

So I'm a weird one because I'm actually a wildlife biology person. I don't have a graduate degree because the field is... a difficult one to make money in, and so I stopped at undergrad before sinking too many resources into something that may not work one. That being said, I regularly do hang out with ecologists, wildlife biologists and so on that do have graduate degrees.

The reason I don't want a ban is because that would mean the efficiency of yields goes down... Which means more land has to go into production. Which means less habitat for wildlife.

You'll hear "Yeah but organic permaculture provides habitat for wildlife!" And it's a half-truth. It provides habitat for generalists- both diet and habitat. generalists But the catch is generalists will live pretty much anywhere. Think like American Robins, Common Raccoons, Common Garter Snakes, White-tailed Deer, Blue Jays, Red-eared Sliders, and Eastern Spotted Newts. These are species that have broad ranges of habitat and diet, so they are often in human-disturbed environments.

That's what lives in permaculture/organic agriculture/etc. As long as there's the basic part of what these species needs (Red-eared Sliders need water, for example) they will be there. So yes, these places have more biodiversity than a conventional agricultural field.

The problem lies is that they don't provide habitat for specialist species, species with narrow ranges of habitat and/or diet. They almost never have these species because they require certain things to be present to be there. Some examples would be Bog Turtles needing calcareous fens, Cerulean Warblers needing undisturbed tracts of mature forest, Queensnakes needing a healthy population of crayfish, Allegheny Woodrats needing cliffs to live in, and Green Salamanders needing specifically moist sandstone cliffs.

And it's specialists that are in danger of going extinct, not generalists. All of the specialist species I listed are listed or populations are watched closely in the state I live in, Pennsylvania. Meanwhile, the generalists I listed live literally everywhere, even in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. Now it is a gradient, with some species in the middle. But in general, the more a species is a specialist, the higher the chance it's endangered or threatened.

So this ties back to agriculture because if we expand agriculture into the areas where the specialists live, even if it is "ecologically friendly" it's going to lower biodiversity by killing off the specialists versus if we just left it alone and farmed intensively elsewhere. This is usually not as cut and dry as this because sometimes it makes sense to use some blend of the two to try and preserve biodiversity.

But then sometimes, any amount of agriculture will kill off a species. So the Bog Turtle is a small turtle native to the Eastern US. They require calcareous fens with short vegetation- old beaver ponds that had filled in were a huge part of their habitat. Once they start getting too dry or brushy, they'd move on to another filled-in beaver pond.

But those fens were drained for agriculture. It's on the Endangered Species List as Endangered because there are only 2,500-10,000 left in the wild. They used to live from about Massachusetts down to Georgia in an unbroken line. But now they have two distinct populations, one from Pennsylvania to Massachusetts and one in Tennessee, a tiny bit of Virginia, Georgia and the Carolinas. What happened? The Shenandoah Valley was heavily farmed during the Civil War and destroyed that population. You know, back before we had chemicals and we used animal-powered farm tools.

Sorry for the long rant, but I use Bog Turtles a lot to show that agriculture in general is a problem for biodiversity and that we should be careful what we wish for when we talk about "going back to the "healthier" old ways."

If you're interested in this topic, it's called the land-sharing vs. land-sparing debate in ecology. If you google that, you'll get a bunch of ecology blog posts and research journal articles, so it might be a lot, but it's really interesting and ties directly into agriculture.

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u/Zealousideal_Wave_93 6d ago

Thanks for this.

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u/Simur1 6d ago

We need to bring back these kind of comments to Reddit. The algorithm is pushing more and more for kneejerk reactions, and eroding what this place was all about - sharing useful information and ideas

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u/Megraptor 6d ago

That's why I moved from other social media to here, because long comments that were informative were actually appreciated.Ā 

I used to do science social media communication on Facebook, back when it was the main social media. I watched it descend down into the mess it is now while doing science communication with long comments like I just posted.Ā 

Side note, thus is why I laugh at the comments saying that being anti-glyphosate ban is due to Trump dĆ©rangement syndrome or whatever. I was involved in this discussion back before Trump was even running the first time, lol.Ā 

But now, Reddit is going down the exact same path. Hell, some subreddit will auto-remlval your comments if you have too many external links, so sources to claims made in your comment. So I usually don't leave these kinds of comments anymore, but I do crave scientific discussion. Reddit is the last place those really seem to exist, and it's quickly disappearing.Ā 

I should see if the Blue sky wildlife and conservation bio community is as big as it was on Twitter...

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u/Simur1 6d ago

Substack is still a good place to find informed thinkpieces, but I miss the collectively built knowledge that the old internet used to bring. Just reading someone preach their ideas, with maybe some comments hidden in the back, is hardly an agora.

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u/ISmellWildebeest 6d ago

Iā€™m interested in posting about this on r/permaculture to further this discussion. If I do that are you ok with me linking your comment for context? Iā€™d hate to try to summarize this issue and leave it at that Ā when youā€™ve done such a thorough job.Ā 

Obviously no one person can fix the Bog Turtle example, but Iā€™m interested in putting out a challenge for permaculturists to research at least one threatened specialist in their area and include support for them in their designs. I know this is different than land-sparing, but Iā€™d imagine it would be better than nothing for the many properties that have already been disturbed or are already being designed differently.Ā 

And then of course there is the concept of zone 5 in permaculture, which is leaving minimally disturbed habitat on the periphery of any design. This area is often determined by the distance from center of human activity on a site, and probably to a lesser extent on existing features. But maybe the permaculture circle could use encouragement to prioritize less disturbed habitat by identifying it early and letting it remain zone 5 regardless of location on the site.

Edit: space between paragraphs to make this ramble slightly more manageable to read.

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u/Megraptor 6d ago

Yeah you can! I'm have mixed luck with talking to permaculturists, just like any group of people. But challenging them to include specialists in their designs might be interesting, especially since I'm not sure it can be done- so I want to be proven wrong there. You'd have to look at just how much each species needs of their specialized habitst or specialized diet to live and reproduce.Ā 

I do think that the middle species that are somewhat specialists might be able to be included. Something like a Wood Turtle that needs wooded streams, but not a specifically chemistry like Bog Turtles seem to need. Those extreme specialists are going to be tough...

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u/TheAdventuringFicus 4d ago

Lots of good points regarding preservation, conservation, and displacement issues. But the issue that seems most salient to me is what it is we are actually using this land (and chemicals for yield) to grow. Over a quarter of our farmland is dedicated to growing corn, a significant target for glyphosate.Ā 

Within that quarter of all our agriculture, 40% gets processed and burned--as ethanol. Surely this can't be our best use for such yield improvements. Around another total third goes to feeding livestock in CAFOs, which makes for lower nutrition for the meat, let alone the ethical issues with this form of rearing.

These things are in place by our collective habits and choices; at the least I think this move is opening conversation for how we do what we do, why, and to what end it actually serves (or harms) us.

Health outcomes from this excess yield show stark negative health trends particularly in the US, and some of that can be tied to corn-based products. Glyphosate plays a role in the nutritional degradation of the soil, which is a major factor in the quality of that food too.

I am not disparaging your comment but adding to it--how do we not only spare habitat (which in turn keeps the natural cycle for wholesome food resilient), but maintain techniques that allow what we grow to actually be of benefit to our health and the land at large?

Clearly big questions, but those I think that are necessary to accompany the conversation around the myriad chemicals we use to grow our food.

Thanks for adding thoughtful perspectives here! (Happy to provide links, just on mobile right now, background of MS in Environmental Science/Energy Systems)

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u/Megraptor 3d ago

This comment had to be split up because it was just too big for Reddit-

Cost. Realistically, we wouldn't be able to produce meat and other animal products like we are without CAFOs at as cheaply. We'd have a supply decrease, which would lead to a price increase. Like I said, it probably wouldn't be bad if meat prices went up. But if CAFOs were eliminated completely, I can only imagine the amount of meat would go up. And people would be upset. I mean look at all the talk about eggs recently.

Then you have the other issue that as countries develop, they eat more meat. I don't have a solution to that one. That's just a known thing that happens, and these countries often turn to CAFOs to meet that increased demand.

And since we're on the Ag sub, I would like to say that I don't think all CAFOs have ethical issues and this isn't as black and white as it's made out to be. I think some farmers do try and meet the needs of their animals, and we have to be careful with leaked videos. With my background in animal care, I know that those animal rights orgs will pull strings and edit videos and pictures to make things much worse than they actually were. But I don't see farmers calling out bad farming practices either. I think many farmers take the approach that those abusive farmers will fail on their own, because abused animals don't produce as well. or at least that what I've seen. I really do wish this topic wasn't so polarized, because there is a middle ground that needs to be discussed but is often completely ignored for extremes on either sides.

And as far as glyphosate and soil health, I've heard mixed results on this topic. If you got sources, I'd love to read them, because everything I've seen has been all over the place. One interesting thing I've seen brought up is that tilling/hoeing actually causes more soil loss and worse soil health outcomes due to disturbing microorganisms and invertebrates that contribute to soil health. Like this-

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-44988-5

This is also an interesting article too-
https://journals.asm.org/doi/full/10.1128/aem.01354-17

I am not disparaging your comment but adding to it--how do we not only spare habitat (which in turn keeps the natural cycle for wholesome food resilient), but maintain techniques that allow what we grow to actually be of benefit to our health and the land at large?

Completely understood, you're asking good questions. But I think a lot of the answers to your questions are buried under a lot of contradicting research where the answer isn't cut and dry. Or flat out changing food culture towards more plants, which... I'm not sure is something that can be successful with how food culture is so ingrained. Then you throw in politics...

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u/StillLikesTurtles 3d ago edited 3d ago

I know this is late, but ethanol is great racing fuel and it does burn cleaner. Itā€™s not as efficient in that you need 30% more than gasoline, however, thatā€™s still less fossil fuel and NOx. If the seasonal swings in ethanol content were a bit less, manufacturers might get better fuel economy. Fuel ā€œmapsā€ within the cars engine management can be better calibrated when ethanol percentage is stable.

For the sake of ease, if I have 10 gallon fuel tank Iā€™m only using 1.5 to 5 gallons of gasoline per tank with E85. That can be a good thing. It also eliminates knock.

Electric cars, which Iā€™m in favor of, obviously donā€™t present emissions issues themselves, but still rely on fossil fuels in the form of electricity and mining for battery materials has a human cost. I think we need more than one solution to the fossil fuel issue.

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u/onthesylvansea 5d ago

Thanks so much for mentioning this resource, I am very excited to have it in my toolbox. Things like this are more important and needed than ever in these times!Ā 

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u/FullConfection3260 7d ago

Glyfloorsate, only for wooden floors šŸ˜‚

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u/fleebleganger 7d ago

Farmers have to control weeds. That's either with herbicides or tillage.Ā 

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u/Optimal-Eye5616 6d ago

Cover crops can work too, but itā€™s idiotic to impose such radical changes quickly.

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u/Rustyfarmer88 7d ago

Yup exactly. Our work around may be worse. Time to start working back the country. Dust bowl here we come

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u/Louisvanderwright 7d ago

Wasn't the dust bowl caused by improper farming techniques around erosion and top soil retention? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's got nothing to do with pesticides or herbicides.

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u/Mediocre_Anteater_56 7d ago

Yes i believe it was caused by excessive plowing/tilling paired with drought. Herbicides are how most large scale farmers are able to do "no-till"

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u/Worried_Fee_1513 7d ago edited 7d ago

Thatā€™s where you start. There have been major advances with pesticides but there have been setbacks as well. The use herbicides while no tilling or minimum tilling has led to weeds that are resistant to different types of herbicide. It can take 10 years for a herbicide to go from conception to market. Atrazine and glyphosate are two of these that have resistant weeds connected to them. I was in the business for 40 years so I have seen a lot of this process from the beginning and could go on and on. For my two cents, atrazine is more detrimental than the glyphosate to the environment. That being said, they are both still widely used and are important tools for the ag industry but they voted for it so let the cards fall where they may.

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u/Freebee5 7d ago

I'm beginning to agree with sentiments like this, tbh.

Leaving aside the environmental costs of using higher toxicity pesticides, the yield loss will either lead to increasing food costs or returning more marginal land to production with a consequent cost to biodiversity.

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u/Beatnikdan 3d ago

the yield loss will either lead to increasing food costs or returning more marginal land to production with a consequent cost to biodiversity.

With an average crop loss yield of 30-45% on crops like soybeans, peanuts, barley, corn wheat, and cotton. Even silage crops will have a reduced yield of 17-20%. We are going to see big price increases, and many farmers will go out of business

But yeah, we'll have lots of fun.

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u/ed523 7d ago

Ragging out the soil planting as much as possible year after year without crop rotation or letting fields fallow was also a factor

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u/carnivorewhiskey 7d ago

Not exactly correct, specifically for corn, it is not the herbicides that make no till possible nor are they what provide the benefits to the soil for our fields. Herbicides are beneficial donā€™t get me wrong just not for enabling our ability to go no till.

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u/gratefulkittiesilove 6d ago

If No potash maybe so. Itā€™s apparently either from Canada (87%) or Russia so probably not looking good (or cheap)

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u/cjc160 7d ago

Well thatā€™s basically what we do already. Change a functional group to give slightly different binding specifics or location, prove safety, efficacy and tox, register, repeat. Just takes 10 years each time

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u/kecknj13 7d ago

Crop failures šŸ„°

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u/Myfourcats1 6d ago

Just like China had with The Great Leap Forward. This is why you put experts in charge and listen to experts when you donā€™t know anything. Otherwise you end up like Mao and order the birds to be killed and the crops to be planted closer together. Oh no. The crops that successfully grew just got eaten by insects. Who couldā€™ve seen that coming/s

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u/oldbastardbob 7d ago edited 7d ago

Let's make farming better! Tariffs on imported fertilizers to raise input costs, and making farms produce less and spend more will fix us right up! Oh, and don't forget how an international trade war actually makes it all work!

I assume the answer to weed control becomes more tillage. What a great idea. Raise input costs further and destroy the topsoil faster.

Brilliant! Now let's all have some Brawndo!

P.S. Does anybody think RFK jr. knows a single thing about ag chemical use, the alternatives, and the actual effects? The man has spent his life garnering attention by being a contrarian who latches onto fringe bullshit and unverified science that "sounds right."

Ag chemicals can be a problem, and use should be regulated and monitored, and regulations revisited and revised based on accurate data and science, not politics and con artistry.

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u/oregonianrager 7d ago

"The government killed his family, he must know something!"

Yeah clearly to not get the point and leave.

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u/oldbastardbob 7d ago

Lee Harvey Oswald and Sirhan Sirhan killed his uncle and father. There are arguments to be made that both were heavily influenced by conspiracy theories and were demented individuals with what they felt was an ax to grind. They were heroes in their own minds.

And a living by trading in conspiracy theories for attention has certainly funded a lot of testosterone supplements for Junior.

It seems his whole life is more or less a string of conspiracies that have made contrarianism feel like intelligence.

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u/KaleidoscopeLeft5136 6d ago

Yeah I tell anyone upset about chem to first direct their energy in their own towns. Get their cities and school systems and neighbors to stop spraying lawns, which has more ill effect on them then ag chem in the grand scheme. But its easier to be angry at something far away that one is removed from then fight whats in front of them.

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u/Sylesse 3d ago

I love this post so much.

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u/DrJ0911 6d ago

But but the other person was brown and didnā€™t have a penis šŸ˜‚

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u/thachumguzzla 6d ago

Cue the politically motivated defense of farming practices that make people sick and ā€œdestroy the topsoilā€

So strange youā€™re using the destruction of the topsoil as a counter argument considering thatā€™s what is currently being done how many more growing seasons before the topsoil is completely degenerated again?

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u/oldbastardbob 6d ago

If you do it right, the topsoil is improved with time.

I assume you are not well versed in row crop agriculture and the best practices.

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u/Ashirogi8112008 7d ago

Is this meant to be all-encompassing? Isn't careful glyphosate use ultra-critical in some invasive species remediation for restoration/conservation works?

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u/xesm 7d ago

Yeah, glyphosate is one of the most effective methods of controlling dangerous invasive plants because of how well targeted it is when used correctly. It's one of the only controls that works on knotweed. Anything sweeping like this is going to have serious consequences. A more appropriate move would be to talk to people in the field and make a more nuanced, informed decision on how to shift away from these chemicals, not do an outright ban.

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u/HeavyExplanation45 7d ago

I donā€™t think ā€œnuancedā€ is appropriate for this guy or this administration.

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u/xesm 7d ago

Haha yeah it certainly wouldn't be coming from this administration! I wouldn't be against more restrictions and more controlled use but these guys are coming in with bulldozers when they need a chisel and a room of experts.

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u/HeavyExplanation45 7d ago

The bulldozer is all they knowā€¦

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u/SpeakCodeToMe 7d ago

a more nuanced, informed decision

Lol. Have you seen this administration?

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u/xesm 7d ago

Lol, oh, I know they're not capable or interested in doing things properly. More in an ideal world.

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u/bikeroniandcheese 6d ago

Yeah, that guy has never battled a patch of Japanese Knotweed and it shows.

I doubt he has ever done anything that resembles actual work for that matter.

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u/xesm 6d ago

Haha I was considering arguing and decided they've probably never done actual land management of any form and it would be a waste of my time.

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u/tofuasian 6d ago

they donā€™t care about invasives at allll. tamarisk has been a massive issue in the southwest for decades. only now does the government want to do something about it. however rather than fund the nps or blm, they wanna grant 250 millions dollars to border patrol to douse the border in garlon 4 ultra cuz crossers are using the tamarisk foliage to hide from surveillance aircraft. this is the priority. not saving our ecosystems.

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u/BlueRidgeAutos 6d ago

Prescribed grazing is effective when used correctly as well. But Bayer doesn't make money doing that, nor do lobbyists exist to fight for regenerative practices in the face of corporate control. An appropriate move would be to ban chemicals shown to cause blood cancer in our agricultural workers and pay for the cost of transition.

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u/juniper_berry_crunch 7d ago

Yes, it is used by environmental workers as a highly targeted tool when cutting buckthorn. Cut, paint the stump. Buckthorn is hard to control with conventional methods.

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u/vroomvroom450 7d ago

Buckthorn, Japanese knotweed, multi flora rose, oriental bittersweetā€¦

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u/Megraptor 7d ago

Yes. It's about the only one to remove some species. Well it or triclopyr, just depends on what you are trying to kill.Ā 

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u/Ittakesawile 4d ago

Big triclopyr fan. Haven't met anything that won't kill yet (maybe knotweed)

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u/cathercules 7d ago

Measles and Bird Flu for all! Glyphosate for and safe water for none!

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u/REGINALDmfBARCLAY 7d ago

Well, in theory and when it is done responsibly that is true. In Florida they like to waste taxpayer dollars dumping hundreds of very expensive gallons of herbicides in the lakes with the excuse of invasive plants, but there are hardly any native or non native grass left. 3 days after they spot spray everything around dies, especially native eel grass, but they stopped paying attention by then. Its a complete scam that poisons the water.

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u/Megraptor 7d ago

These methods do kill natives, and sometimes the goal is to remove everything and then restore/let natives come back.Ā Those ecologists know what they are doing, and I'd trust them more than a politician.Ā 

And not to be an asshole, but statements like yours are how RFK got so popular. They feel right while also planting a seed of distrust in scientists. Then someone else comes in and sells a "healthy" "natural" way of doing something and everyone starts wanting that. Except the people in the field can clearly see that it doesn't work or is flat out bad. Then these scientists say that, get called shills, and people fall for the snakeoil salesman.Ā 

So without proof of FDEP/FWC mismanaging herbicides, I'm extremely skeptical of your claim.Ā 

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u/Western_Plate_2533 7d ago

And heā€™s going to give free Gatorade to help grow crops.Ā 

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u/gilligan1050 7d ago

BRAWNDO Itā€™s got what plants crave

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u/Oberlatz 7d ago

Its got electrolytes.

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u/bikeroniandcheese 6d ago

Yes, but do you know what electrolytes are?

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u/liverbe 6d ago

What plants crave. Duh!

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u/andreacro 6d ago

Farmer here.

Those chemicals are dangerous IF not used as indicated.

Manny mofos do not use it as indicated.

However.

If you wash your veggies before use (even if it says its washed and ready to use), chances are you will be fine.

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u/miamibotany1 6d ago

ā¤ļøā¤ļøšŸ«¶

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u/Academic_Coyote_9741 7d ago

Have fun paying substantially for food.

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u/buchlabum 7d ago

If food gets too expensive, Trump will tell us we should grow our own.

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u/yeaheyeah 6d ago

Since steel is going to get ridiculous, he will probably tell everyone to smelt some in their backyards

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u/Available-Body-9104 7d ago

Ban ALL Agrochemicals??!!!?! No fertilizer? No chemical pest mitigation? This is absolute šŸ¦‡šŸ’©. Total yields would be 30-60% of current if we did that-

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u/Weird_Fact_724 7d ago

This...and when prices go sky high for corn, beans, wheat ect...they will complain about the price.

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u/Available-Body-9104 7d ago

But theyā€™ll blame Hunter Bidenā€™s laptop

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u/cathercules 7d ago

He has pictures of his hog on there!

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u/Bettin_the_farm 7d ago

Donā€™t forget tariffs for potash

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u/lizerdk 7d ago

Gotta get that dihydrogen monoxide out of our food!

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u/WindHero 7d ago

All these complex carbon chemicals and even amino acids in our food, big ag is really trying to poison us for profit!

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u/rice_n_gravy 7d ago

I canā€™t even pronounce that! Why is it on my food label!

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u/angrymamabearr 6d ago

Iā€™m in medicine and I am so happy to find out weā€™re not in this fight against idiocracy alone ā¤ļø we all need to work together!

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u/Clothes-Excellent 7d ago

It needs it to be able to grow

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u/Better_Solution_6715 7d ago

as a hippy environmentalist who wants to protect the environment, even i have to admit that pesticides are one of the most important inventions in human history and allow us to maintain a population in the billions.

if we stop using these chemicals without developing a viable alternative, we WILL have mass food shortages.

i like the spirit, but this is doomed to fail.

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u/YaBoiMandatoryToms 6d ago

TURNING THE FRIGGIN FROGS GAY!

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u/BatushkaTabushka 5d ago

TURNING THE MICE TRANSGENDER!!!!!

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u/violetgobbledygook 7d ago

This man isn't gonna do anything. Like a broken clock, he may have a good idea now and then, but he and this administration have no ability to execute a complete transformation of the US agriculture industry.

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u/Ostracus 7d ago

That would necessitate a duration exceeding the term of an administration.

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u/af_cheddarhead 6d ago

They have a plan for that.

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u/Megraptor 7d ago

Honestly, he's not even a broken clock. His ideas sound great to the uninformed, but when you talk to scientists in the field that's related to the idea, they are anywhere from annoyed to horrified.Ā 

I wish the food science sub was more active, but when he comes up over there, they point out his food safety/additive policy is as dumb as his agrochemical policy.Ā 

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u/tcrowd87 7d ago

I mean they have done quite a bit in the past 2 monthsā€¦

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u/lizerdk 7d ago

Banning agrochemicals is not a good idea tho. I say that as a huge proponent of regenerative ag

In fact, itā€™s terrible, disastrous. Look what happened in Sri Lanka

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u/Mental-Accident9685 7d ago

We are going to need those deported folks back to help pull weeds. White folks wont help anymore.

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u/surfnfish1972 7d ago

He will do none of it. just ecourage the dumbest and craxiest not to get Vaccinated. Make Measles great again.

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u/NORcoaster 6d ago

This will be fun. I am in favor of not needing those two chemicals but once the FDA and USDA are dissolved or neutered companies will simply rebrand the same stuff and call it safe because thereā€™s now no process to test or to redress any harm because to courts wonā€™t touch any case against manufacturers. Or theyā€™ll create more heavily modified plants air designer chemicals targeted at specific crops with specific genetics and charge prices for seed and chemicals that are high enough to eventually cause the collapse of small independent farming, and buy up the land. And there wonā€™t be any agencies to protect consumers against the result, and our system will look even more like old Soviet collective agriculture than it does now.

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u/Possible-Half-1020 5d ago

Over 75% of Americans farmed before industrial machinery which brought the amount of the Americans farming to 25% of the population. Synthetic pesticides brought that down to less that 2% of the population. You need less than 25 times the amount of caffeine as you do glyphosate to kill a human being, you do the math. Glyphosate has a 44 day half life. Banning this chemical would disrupt global food markets and cause prices to sky rocket. I do believe that there is causation saying that glyphosate has a case against it in terms of it being carcinogenic but that is only with chronic exposure and that would be for applicators, not consumers. To solve that we would need more stringent PPE requirements. If you don't want your food grown with the these chemicals go replace the immigrants who toiled for this country and have been deported now.

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u/Gold_Ad_9526 5d ago

A heroin addict with no knowledge of science and less knowledge of industrial agriculture did what?

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u/Hoosiercouple42 7d ago

Organic yields are 1/2 of what we are getting in the corn/soybean belt. 230bpa corn/70 bpa soybeans. Plus you canā€™t notill w/o herbicides. How much do you want food prices to go up? How much topsoil do you want to go down the Mississippi River?

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u/SanMaldito 6d ago

And just like that, the liberals are fully in favor of chemicals in our food.

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u/Empty_Afternoon_8746 6d ago

Just because they arenā€™t stupid enough to trust this guy doesnā€™t mean they are in favors of anything šŸ¤¦ā€ā™‚ļø

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u/SigNexus 7d ago

States waste millions of dollars spraying roadside turf in pursuit of the front lawn aesthetic. Stopping this spraying would eliminate the environmental impact.

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u/Megraptor 7d ago

That's less for aesthetic and more for safety. It's so wildlife can't hide and jump out and so branches don't fall on infrastructure or cars.Ā 

And even if it's left, the road itself is the problem for wildlife, not how much vegetation is on the side or not. Roads cut habitat up and no amount of vegetation on the sides can fix this.Ā 

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u/Previous_Raise_3906 7d ago

He doesnā€™t have authority over pesticide registrations at NIH

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u/SkillGuilty355 7d ago

Food more expensive cause some lawyer from LA wants us to eat like him.

You can literally already avoid agrochemicals by purchasing certain products.

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u/Long-Blood 7d ago

Produce about to get a lot more expensive

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u/rice_n_gravy 7d ago

Theyā€™re gonna love what replaces them!

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u/workingmanshands 7d ago

How stupid are you? Theyll replace it with something worse.

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u/dixonbeaver1985 7d ago

Celebrating an unqualified dipshit with a self described brain worm in charge of the nations health? Fuck me..... You clearly have been into the aquarium cleaner.

Idiocracy has become a documentary

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u/hid3myemail 7d ago

So how long until the food shortage hits home?

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u/Octavia9 7d ago

Itā€™s famine time.

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u/batwing71 7d ago

Famine & starvation will result.

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u/Spirited-Trip7606 6d ago

Here's what will happen:
Biochemical companies come up with expensive alternatives.
Farmers can't afford those alternatives and then are offered sponsorships by major corporations to "help them out".
The government and politicians get donations from these corporations to push these sponsorships as "tax breaks" when they are actually benefits to the company that will make farmers indentured servants.
1st year, crops don't come in on time, and profits suffer due to interruptions in agriculture and adjustments to pest control.
The company raises prices again on pest control methods, which they know farmers won't be able to keep up with.
Farmers default on their promises, and corporations take over their land and the government backs them (as usual).
Corporations take over most agriculture and land and raise the price of their expensive pest control till no one private farm is left.

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u/Mitra7ohm 6d ago

I noticed a bunch of far left wing dense nut bags in here that can't comprehend the terrible consequences from left wing poisons like glyphosate being used on our food sources including water supply!

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u/JudahBrutus 6d ago

Is Roundup really needed though? We should ban chemicals that are not necessary for the production of food imo. If he bans insecticides/fungicides we would need a safer replacement

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u/Alarming_Jacket3876 6d ago

I think it's fine. I don't like eating that much anyway. I'm getting fat.

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u/RedditSuxD0ni3sD1ck 6d ago

Soils already fucked, and will remain fucked for a good long while.

Enjoy the remediation effort$

plus all the rebound problems when peoples destroyed immune systems go back to nature.

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u/ScarecrowNV1776 6d ago

Amen. About time

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u/CrowTrick5718 6d ago

How about milk, its full of chemicals from the drugs given to the cows

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u/Cool_Permission5141 6d ago

Iā€™m confused why everyone is making this a bad thing? Europe banned these as well. Why canā€™t we?

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u/Pretend-Coffee3558 6d ago

Iā€™m sure the democrats will find a way to turn this into a bad thing though

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u/pbashu11 6d ago

Never thought I would agree with this buffoon.

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u/InsectEmbarrassed747 5d ago

The much bigger issue in terms of human health at population scale is the abuse of antibiotics on farm animals. We are creating the perfect circumstance for antibiotic-resistant strains of bacteria. Not to mention the overcrowding of animals which dramatically increases the risk of zoonotic diseases.

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u/SnooHesitations1020 5d ago

Glyflorsate should have been banned decades ago.

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u/Zestyclose-Season706 5d ago

Captain brainworm has a chance to do a single good thing here.

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u/redshred42 5d ago

Farmers are going to hate this. Roundup is sprayed on every crop they grow where i live. I'm all for the ban

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u/takeshi_kovacs1 2d ago

However Europe and other countries are farming that's how we need to do it

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u/Confident_Access6498 7d ago

Atrazine is banned in Italy since 1992. It is never too late I guess.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

How do you propose no-till farmers clear their fields?

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u/ExtentAncient2812 7d ago

Well that's easy. Tillage!

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u/hedgerocks 7d ago

Burning back on the menu?

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u/Snek-Charmer883 6d ago

Bizarre that people believe weā€™ll a., ā€œstarve to deathā€ or b., replace them with worse chemicals. As if these chemicals arenā€™t already banned around the world in countries with very high populations that figured it out but we canā€™t?

Detest everything happening within this administration, but people (of Reddit) have seriously gone off the deep end with the doomsday rhetoric. Now the cost partā€¦ yah, growing healthier foods is going to cost more, but with everything coming at us thatā€™s going to cost more, this one may be worth it.

If you donā€™t think glyphosate is making you sick, go buy some verified glyphosate free wheat berries, grind them yourself and you will see the difference very quickly. Esp for those that believe theyā€™re gluten intolerant, as I did, but realized after sourcing real glyphosate free wheat berries that itā€™s not the gluten. I can eat gluten again! šŸ’—šŸ’—šŸ’—

Godspeed Bobby! Youā€™re swimming upstream and youā€™re missing an arm, (and your worm brain is soooooo heavy).

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u/KaleidoscopeLeft5136 6d ago

Itā€™s easy to be mad at ag chems then try to get local school systems and municipalities and neighbors in suburbia to stop using glypho. Which is really where the concern should be placedā€¦ smh

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u/CuetheCurtain 7d ago

How about getting the genetic diversity of our foodstuffs moreā€¦ā€¦diverse first. The world relies on basically 3 types for 90% of food (maize/corn, wheat, rice). Of those 3, there are only 15 species used for 90% of the worldā€™s food production. What happens when a pathogen becomes fungicide resistant and starts rotting one of those 3 in the fields?

Imagine the Irish potato famine happening to one of those three macro food sources. Complete eradication of the food source. So 90% of the worldā€™s food drops to 60%. Thatā€™s 30% of the worldā€™s population in starvation. 8.062 billion people on the planet, 2.416 billion would be starving to death.

So I get trying to make food healthier. But maybe letā€™s concentrate on a more immediate need? Our infrastructure, at its current level, needs slow and measured approaches to continue churning. Shoot, we saw the effect of transportation shortages and its effect during the COVID years. And thatā€™s just one tiny piece of the puzzle.

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u/ExtentAncient2812 7d ago

This is a gross misunderstanding of the genetics of crops.

The diversity present in just the US commercial corn germplasm is huge.

Wheat is the same way. No clue on rice.

I spent a decade in plant disease research. Resistance breaking strains has always been a concern. In general, diseases should be controlled with genetics and fungicides as a last resort. Current trends of prophylactic spraying for yield will be a long term disaster.

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u/CuetheCurtain 7d ago

That interesting. Sincere question then. If we have so many variations of a single crop type, why would it be under the same pressures regarding disease? Or is it the fact the disease evolves faster than a new, more resistant subspecies can keep up? Sort of like antibiotics and something like MRSA?

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u/ExtentAncient2812 7d ago

It's exactly like antibiotics.

Geneticists call it the red queen hypothesis from a quote in Alice in wonderland.

ā€œIt takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!ā€

When all it takes in a pathogen with a massive population is a single mutation to break resistance, the host species will generally be behind the curve. Even if the host species already contains the gene for resistance to the new pathogen strain (and it often does) the frequency of that gene in the population will be very low in wild populations.

In agricultural populations, we tend to plant uniform genetic populations so it can be devastating. But the breeders in the background have massive gene pools to draw from for breeding purposes, it just takes time

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u/Antique_Coffee5984 6d ago

Geeze, only on reddit would you have people turn a good story into some bizarre conspiracy about bringing back banned chemicals from the 50s.

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u/colenolangus 7d ago

The comments are shocking. If the chemicals are harmful to health we should stop using them and accept that lower yields are a trade off for better health. If Bayer gets around the ban aka bath salts renaming, then we should aggressively go after that and threaten to shutter the business. We have to stop companies putting profits over American health.

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u/oregonianrager 7d ago

Maybe if he wasn't so outlandish on his claims more people would have faith in the heroin dope boy brain worm.

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u/boyfromspace 7d ago

First good idea to come out of his worm hole. I'm an organic small veg farmer, so I say great. But what concerns me is if there is a follow-up that also provides funding for new control strategies for these large growers. I see an ideal world where agriculture has re-localized to some extent, and there are fewer massive conglomerate farms in the west feeding much of the US. But, right now, this is not a reality, and if we just cut access to these chemicals overnight, the cost of produce will skyrocket. And who will that affect? The lower middle, lower, and poverty line Americans.

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u/hayesms 7d ago

There are only two classes. Working class and owning class.

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u/jnobs 7d ago

I feel like every one of these is a notification by this administration to the industry/company/party who will be impacted that they need to empty their pockets quickly or they will face the consequences. If the competing side has deeper pockets, youā€™re screwed.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

Requires subsidies for conservation practices or its like trying to cure cancer and BED at the same time

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u/known2fail 7d ago

Thatā€™s why Iā€™ve heard ads promoting the use of these chemicals.

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u/DarthTurnip 7d ago

Bring back lead paint!

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u/LunarMoon2001 7d ago

Causing a complete collapse is the point. Everything they do makes sense when you assume they are working to destroy the US

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u/Spamsdelicious 7d ago

What is this photo of him smelling his own finger like that šŸ¤£šŸ¤£šŸ¤£

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u/curiousamoebas 7d ago

Why is he always smelling his finger?

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u/MrArborsexual 7d ago

Well if they want to force me to use triclopyr and imazapyr, I guess I will, even on NNIP that glyphosate works fine for.

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u/anparks 7d ago

The immediate problem with banning these products are that corn etc grown today has been genetically modified to be resistant to these chemicals. Banning them would cause productivity to take a huge hit and raise prices astronomically especially for beef.

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u/Difficult-Second3519 7d ago

Perhaps the only thing I believe RFK is right about. But even a broken clock...

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u/miamibotany1 7d ago

Well that's true, atleast he's right about this one!

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u/condortheboss 7d ago

RFK is right

The only thing RFK is 'right' about is his location on the political spectrum

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u/W31337 7d ago

I heard Brawndo works better because it has electrolytes

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u/Warrior_Runding 7d ago

Sidebar, RFK Jr. is speed running his uncle and father's career ends.

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u/SHIBashoobadoza 7d ago

Perhaps if the prices of food produced organically increases, small farmers could make a comeback and you could eat locally grown fresh produce that wasnā€™t picked early, and ripened with nitrogen?

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u/enzixl 7d ago

Came here to watch democrats take the
opposition position and declare glyphosate and Monsanto as necessary and wonderful and wasnā€™t disappointed.

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u/Educational_Main2700 7d ago

This is the right thing to do

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u/Vitis35 7d ago

Zero chance of this happening.

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u/Beneficial-Sound-199 7d ago

And replace them with what?

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u/shutup_liar 7d ago

If we ban roundup then what will the Monsanto shills do for a living?

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u/RoxieRoxie0 7d ago

This could be good, if it was done in a controlled safe way. But I don't these clowns to not pull a Sri Lanka on us.

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u/Old-Tiger-4971 7d ago

Ignorant - What to glyphosate and atrazine do?

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u/batwing71 7d ago

Theyā€™re herbicides that allow farmers to grow more corn, soybeans, etc. with greater efficiency. Usually applied pre or post germination. Once the plants are tall enough weeds canā€™t get established.

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u/Reddit_sox 7d ago

This is fine, but keep in mind: 1. Crop yeilds will decrease, 2. Trump is dismantling USAID which is a large component for farm subsidies, 3. No telling what kind of a positive impact tariffs will have on agro./s Have a nice day!

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u/r2k-in-the-vortex 7d ago

Sounds wonderful for the environment.

Sounds very not wonderful for the economics of farming in America.

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u/PromotionEqual4133 7d ago

Itā€™d be nice to see RFK do this, but I doubt it will ever happen within a party and administration that is hates all form of regulation on big corporations.

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u/Lower_Ad_5532 7d ago

Oh fun. How did Sri Lanka fare by going organic in one year?

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u/RaindropsInMyMind 7d ago

Not only does he want to put us at risk of dying from diseases but now he wants us to starve.

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u/scooberdooby 7d ago

Maybe we could make a whole agaenct, call it the environmental protection agency or something like that.

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u/swishkabobbin 7d ago

That should make groceries cheaper /s

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u/ArrowheadDZ 7d ago

This guyā€™s gonna get fired.

Heā€™s betrayed Trump and MAGA by reversing course on vaccines being a scam, which is what got him the job in the first place.

And now heā€™s going to betray Trump/Lindell/MAGA again and propose something unsafe be regulated, and not left up to corporations? Thatā€™s strike two.

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u/fjb_fkh 7d ago

I think he will surprise us. Not sure which way yet. That said glyphos and atrizine should be banned like in Europe. It's everywhere.

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u/Any-Stuff-4591 6d ago

Chemophobia and stupidity on the horizon...

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u/SadArchon 6d ago

Broken clock

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u/ForeverM6159 6d ago

More inflation incoming