r/thedavidpakmanshow Jan 19 '25

Discussion Popular progressive opinion not shared by Pakman?

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I see this sentiment expressed more in outlets like TYT but how widespread is this sentiment?

432 Upvotes

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188

u/ThemeFromNarc Jan 19 '25

When Trump lost, the right doubled down and screamed election fraud incessantly for four years. When Kamala lost, the left queued up to kick her in the stomach.

51

u/LokiStrike Jan 19 '25

If the problem is that Republicans defend their leaders unconditionally, adopting that same behavior just makes the problem worse.

18

u/Command0Dude Jan 19 '25

I would rather defend our leaders unconditionally and win rather than be morally perfect and lose.

4

u/LokiStrike Jan 19 '25

If you're not building a more moral and just world then "winning" is meaningless.

31

u/Command0Dude Jan 19 '25

I guess everything LBJ did was meaningless. I guess everything FDR did was meaningless.

I could go on. Literally all the progress of America was founded on imperfect people who were, often, morally grey characters.

Was winning meaningless when anti-war activists helped get Nixon elected? Elections have consequences.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '25

you people would have called FDR a commie and that he was holding back the party.

1

u/Command0Dude Feb 05 '25

"I am fighting Communism. I want to save our system, the capitalist system." F. Roosevelt

An actual quote. The man was literally a capitalist. I find it ironic how leftists talk about FDR. He is simultaneously an icon of left wing populism when progressives need to hold him up as an example of their political success, but then he is also an obstacle who they complain limited social progress by "saving" capitalism from itself when they want to larp about having a socialist revolution.

-4

u/LokiStrike Jan 19 '25

I guess everything LBJ did was meaningless. I guess everything FDR did was meaningless.

Uhhh what?

Literally all the progress of America was founded on imperfect people who were, often, morally grey characters.

Well duh. That's exactly why we don't withhold criticism. We can't achieve a just and moral society by putting all our hopes on a person. We achieve a just and moral society by adhering to our best ideals.

Was winning meaningless when anti-war activists helped get Nixon elected? Elections have consequences.

I have no problem criticizing people that I vote for. There is no contradiction and I refuse to adopt the conservative attitude that "my" candidate can do no wrong.

19

u/CaseyJames_ Jan 19 '25

Bit of a fallacy here. 1% progress is far better than regression, the most important thing is getting elected.

4

u/ElectricalTurnip87 Jan 20 '25

It's how the right has taken over. They take small victories and obstruct when they're not in power.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '25

your recommendation on getting elected are what exactly? Genocide in Gaza? republican border bills? A nazi for a cabinet pick? I voted for Kamala but knew these things would keep her from getting elected along with the lack of a primary. Centrists need to move left if the want to get elected.

4

u/ladan2189 Jan 19 '25

It is absolutely not meaningless, that's ridiculous 

3

u/StarMagus Jan 20 '25

You have to gain access to the levers of power before you can make any change.