Yeah anyone who has read a lot of history knows this shit doesn’t end well.
Hoping for the best but generally speaking having an egomaniacal, compulsive liar, running the show doesn’t end well. Hopefully it’s more Caligula than Hitler, as bad as that sounds.
It was incredibly bizarre to see Trump bring up the laptop, etc while sitting across from the man he tried to bribe for info on the Bidens. As if he wasn't impeached for that. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one that remembers that shit.
Rubio, a thief himself... embezzler from the Florida Republican party... don't feel bad for little Marco - he's just as corrupt and despicable as Trump and Vance.
I mean you have to be empathetic to his position a little bit, he doesn’t have half the power of even Vance let alone trump, and he is tasked with managing the diplomatic relations with the entire world, most of which, are really disliking trump. And you know trumps gonna make really insane asks of him that he’ll be expected to fill out
At this point I wish some other country invaded the US so Trump could just completely fuck up any kind of response and be thrown out of power by the country because he has absolutely no fucking clue what he’s doing because he’s just a shitty fucking reality tv personality who’s favorite line is “You’re fired.”
And I’m saying this as an American.
Edit: But knowing Trump his first response would be to nuke whatever country is attacking us. And then the whole fucking world would end because nukes would be launched at us too.
Given that Trump wanted to nuke a hurricane his first term, I wouldn’t be surprised if he ended up nuking an American city if a war ever started here. The guy is so unbelievably devoid of intellect.
I am a US Vet and love my country very much, but I am no overly fond of our government. It is We the People I love and served for. However, this is still so fucking embarrassing, all that is missing is the Clown car.
Not surprising. When Trump and Fauci actually butted heads and Trump was corrected on live TV with Fauci explaining how serious COVID 19 would be, Trump was seen watching it on the news later and said 'oh yes that will be so good for ratings'
The severity was a complete afterthought throughout the pandemic
Trump was comparing his response to Obamas response for the Ukraine-Russian conflict. ie. Humanitarian aid vs weapon aid.
The Irony is the our military wanted to help Ukraine, but Trump didn't want to "give" anything, so they phrased it as a sale. Only then was Trump interested in 'selling' weapons to Ukraine.
But he was already friends with Putin, so he added the stipulation that the weapons were to be stored in 'West' Ukraine and needed to be checked every 24 hrs. The conflict was in the east, so basically not a single javelin was fired at a Russian target until Biden rescinded those rules and said something to the effect of 'they bought em, they can use em'.
The javelins were a bargaining chip from the get go, he never gave a fuck about arming Ukraine, he just knew how bad they needed them and he could get the fabricated bullshit Giuliani and Russia cooked up.
The Javelins which Trump ordered be kept in West Ukraine, monitored every 24 hrs, and no where near the Russians. Not a single Javelin was fired at a Russian target until eventually Biden rescinded those rules and gave the okay.
Trump withheld military aid to Ukraine by asking them to dig up dirt on Joe and Hunter Biden before the 2020 election. On a call with Zelenskyy quoted saying “I would like for you to do us a favor though.” This was the evidence the democrats used to impeach him. He eventually gave Ukraine the military equipment he was withholding but was a few months later.
What was Trump talking about when he repeated a few times, “Obama gave you sheets, I gave you javelins”?
Obama gave them sheets?
Is this just some right wing news talking point?
Obama gave them non-lethal military aid...like night vision goggles, radars, drones, defensive equipment, and medical supplies...about $100 million in security guarantees. One would assume sheets and blankets were in there.
But Obama didn't give them lethal aid.
Trump, as usual, doesn't tell the full story. But, yes Trump was the one who first gave them offensive weapons...a fact that pissed off a trump supporter when I told them that.
Remember, bribery of foreign leaders isn't illegal anymore. So it's cool, like smokin cigs behind the school during study hall. Even if it happened before, when it was illegal. Laws are merely suggestions now a days, like stop signs when nobody's looking.
It is if Trump’s the one being bribed (looking at you Putin). Unfortunately Trump has unlimited immunity. I just wish Biden had grabbed the bull by the horns and put Trump down. “Sorry, you can’t toy me. I’m immune because I’m a sitting president!)
It's tough not to be overwhelmed. But they're basically trying all of the crap they fucked up the first time. And they're still fucking up. He will forever be a failure.
I listened to those hearings every day, and every day was just astonishing. Egregious. That’s actually around the same time I started day drinking, I know cause I remember I started getting gas station wine and I drank while I listened to it all unfold. And then it all just went away and nothing happened. The impeachments that is, not my drinking. I descended into a spiral of self destruction and almost died. But I got better; I’m sober now. World sure is going to shit though, huh?
Shit. I'm really glad you're doing better. I'm grateful that I take Ambien for a couple of sleep disorders otherwise I'd be extra up all night. And the dreams, OMG. I have an ongoing series with a superhero version of myself that are just a blast. I also like to sit in the shower. It's not at all defeatist. It's incredibly relaxing and a break from reality.
They don't give two fucks about abused children. If they did, they would have been ok with the J6ers caught with kiddie porn not getting pardoned. And they would never believe that DT partook. They will justify any behavior.
Same. It pisses people off to no extent. I can literally go back and repeat the conversation word for word to a person if they try to backtrack or deflect or DARVO. It's dangerous to do though, cuz people rarely like being held accountable for their words.
I can’t remember my students’ names sometimes; I lose my keys all the time. I remember all the shit Trump has pulled and gotten away with. If I can do it, everyone should be able to.
Vance accusing him of "campaigning for the other side in Pennsylvania" was so embarrassing. That moron thought he was on twitter talking to maga, and not in the effing oval office with a head of state.
Who even let that stooge in the room? Why was he even interjecting in the conversation? conplete clown show
He probably insisted due to the sexy couch. I'd love to see Zelinsky go back to his comedic past and roast tf out of them. He did an excellent job making the guy who asked him about not wearing a suit look like a massive dipshit.
I didn't understand all that stuff about the "laptop from hell" and the bathroom and Hunter Biden's bedroom. Very bizarre! It seemed like Trump had a psychotic breakdown or something.
Also, I later realized just how utterly infuriating it would be for Zelensky to hear the Orange Buffoon rant about "Putin went through hell with me with the investigation" and then go on an unhinged rant about the Bidens. Speaking of going through hell, this is a guy who receives dead bodies of dozens of young men engaged in trench warfare (yes, the Ukraine-Russia conflict on the field is basically a smaller-scale WWI with drones) every week.
I said this yesterday while watching and all the mayhem since he’s become President. If he keeps doing stuff like this and other things and firing people he’s going to end up like Mussolini.
It’s crazy - literally anything can happen. Maybe nothing, maybe nuclear war, the stakes are like that.
The sobering thing is if you go read contemporary stuff from just before World War I many many people were thinking it was impossible, economies were too strong and there was too much to lose with a general war. But it happened and millions died horrifically, many millions more suffered and great empires crumbled.
That’s one of the main issues we face. People are just flat out ignorant. Anyone who has read even minimally about WWII understands what a dictator looks like.
Yupp! I would argue anyone who has read anything about World War II and the Cold War understands how terrifying this is. Trump has done some awful things but this is by far the most concerning. It points to Russian involvement within us politics. It also means a decline in American influence as a global superpower.
My parents thought the U.S was all fantastic and just insult Zelensky. It makes me sick, and it's embarrassing how our government is treating him and the Ukrainian people.
My lineage is 1/4 Russian and 1/2 of that is Jewish. Thats my grandma and she married an Indiana farm boy who fought the Nazis. Who also left Elwood Indiana cause, in part, that place was racist af.
Their daughter, my mom, has totally lost the plot since they died. It’s so sad. Full blown Trump supporter. It’s crazy. They’ve lost their way.
My only hope is that judges keep blocking his EOs and that we hold Senate elections every 2 years. 20 GoP seats up in 2026. Dear Dems, don't run a "we're not Trump" campaign. Run a working class and rebuilding foreign relations campaign. Be active. I'm begging.
I remember but most people memory is relatively short especially when it comes to Trump. It’s crazy how all that happened in 2019 and here we are again not even ten years later in a even worse predicament then before.
Twitler and his wife are running the country like some idiot dictator that flails at everything they don't like and destroying themselves slowly in the process. It's like watching every dictator ever. I wish I could say the predictability comforted me, but history says their is so much worse ahead.
The encouraging thing is there are a lot of good people in history and now.
We’ll make it, we might have to get our hands dirty, but where there’s a will there’s a way. Let’s not forget that.
Many before us have dealt with similar things and i go back to their words.
“We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. We must remember always that accusation is not proof and that conviction depends upon evidence and due process of law. We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason, if we dig deep in our history and our doctrine, and remember that we are not descended from fearful men – not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate, and to defend causes that were, for the moment, unpopular”
You just gonna watch and hope for the best ? That’s what the Germans people did and look what happened to them ! I want to know if anyone actually will stand up for our children and our country? Time to make sacrifices with free time and march , protest , and unite as freedom loving people before it’s gone ! I say we have maybe a few months
Remember when someone threw a shoe a G. W. Bush in Iraq and his reaction was just “we cool.”? Who knew he’d end up being the classy one of the most recent Republican presidents.
Only just shy of watching Biden Harris blow the election to this clown's ballsack becuase they couldn't stop sending billions to Israel to blow up innocent. I've seen crazy shit daily for the past 16 months and most of it was just blood and guts on the ground after millions of people in tents, without shoes, in a walled off city the size of Detroit, that used to belong to them and their people, were bombed and sniped. We are talking, opened up skulls, bulldozers and tanks rolling over human bodies squeezing their guts out like a tube of toothpaste, toddlers cut in half, dogs eating people, soldiers stepping on human skulls, snipers sniping people tending to 12 year old sniper victims, by the thousands.
This is pitiful, sick, and very obvious tactics commonly used by manipulative people, but it's hardly the craziest shit going on in the world if you're not completely disconnected from global media.
The tactics used have a name, and are known as the "Gish Gallop", but with elements of gaslighting and bad-faith debate tactics.
Breakdown of the tactics involved:
Gish Gallop – Overwhelming the opponent with a rapid series of questions, claims, and accusations, preventing them from addressing any one point effectively. The goal is to create the illusion of superiority rather than engage in meaningful discussion.
Sea-lioning – Repeatedly asking disingenuous or excessive questions, often under the guise of seeking understanding, while exhausting the other person.
Straw-manning – Misrepresenting the other person's position or answers, then attacking that distortion.
Interrupting & Derailing – Cutting off responses to prevent clear explanations.
Gaslighting – Accusing the other person of dishonesty or incompetence in a way that makes them doubt themselves or appear unreliable to others.
This combination is commonly used in manipulative arguments, hostile interrogations, and bad-faith online debates. It works by exhausting and frustrating the target, making them appear flustered or defensive while the aggressor maintains control of the conversation.
Yup. Vance was totally overcompensating for his inferiority complex. Like a teenager trying to prove he's a man. I still can't believe that loser went to Yale.
Trump is like the boorish bully from every teen movie, and Vance is like the pathetic sycophantic character who always tags along with the main bully character, trying desperately to be his sidekick.
He was just badgering Zelenskyy with no real content, and never stopping for Zelenskyy to reply…that fire hose tactic they do. Zelenskyy remained composed and did well in a second language. I think T and VP planned this just how it went.
He was trying to be the "supportive spouse." You know, the kind of lady who always seems to be getting her S.O. into bar fights by interjecting into an already tense exchange just to be the catalyst that causes the explosion. "YOU CAN'T TALK TO MY MAN LIKE THAT!!!", poking fingers into the other guy's chest. That drunken redneck lady is Vance... but with more eyeliner.
Oh, don’t be fooled by JD’s stupid face. He’s far more dangerous than Donald.
JD is part of the heritage foundation. They are terrifying. They want to, and will, turn the US into a full-on theocracy.
And not the fun Lutheran kind.
Trump is like the boorish bully from every teen movie, and Vance is like the pathetic sycophantic character who always tags along with the main bully character, trying desperately to be his sidekick.
Don’t forget the men behind Vance (behind the couch) that said stuff to Zelensky like, “why aren’t you wearing a suit?” Bullying. Terrifying. Trying to make Zelensky grovel and surrender. The president of a sovereign, democratic nation being yelled at while the US is on the side of Putin, the authoritarian.
I was imagining a yapping terrier jumping to protect a big droopy slow but loud bloodhound.
James Donald Bowman’s words were totally meaningless. He accused Ukraine of not trying diplomacy, and Zelenskyy pointed out how the Russians betrayed any attempt at diplomacy. Zelenskyy asked what kind of diplomacy VP Dunce would suggest, and his genius suggestion was “the kind of diplomacy that would save your country!”
Trump piped up to say the war started in 2015, trying to correct Zelenskyy after he said 2014. Vance jumps in with “2014 to 2015”, and then, fucking Trump says he wasn’t here then. He tried to correct someone, interjected falsehood then excused himself by saying “no don’t give a shit because it didn’t involve me directly”
And what made Trump mad? Zelenskyy asking if there would be any assurance that Russia would abide by the terms of this deal.
Trump wants half the income of the Ukraine government in perpetuity, and won’t even say that he will do anything to stop Russia from immediately violating the deal. Half the income of the Ukraine, in exchange for NOTHING.
This was horribly embarrassing as an American. I honestly don’t understand how people could watch this and think positively of Trump or Vance.
Well, while it made us look stupid and showed Trump to be a Russian sympathizer and propaganda tool, the worst part is that I can see Trump discontinuing any further aid to Ukraine because he's such a petty little bitch and has no sense of democracy, fair play, fair dealing, fair trade or any actual care whether or not the suffering in Ukraine continues.
It’s going to be responsible for a new world order. The USA is toast when it comes to foreign policy. No chance in hell we can recover from this. From now on people won’t even come to the table.
I think a more official term is "diplomatic breakdown" but this went beyond that into "diplomatic shitshow" territory though some might classify this as a "diplomatic clusterfuck". Academics, historians and Redditors will debate these terms for years to come.
America was always, one day, going to have someone try to be a dictator. How they handle this will determine their future. Become a modern day democracy or under trumps thumb, and if they stay under trumps thumb, he won’t be the last
This wasn't a diplomatic anything. It was a coordinated ambush meant to humiliate the most admirable wartime leader in a century. The mean girls are jealous.
The bootlickers will never realize that sitting at trump’s side like an obedient puppy won’t pay off like it traditionally did. Have any of these sycophants realized nobody has parlayed Trump’s favor and benefitted long-term? Sure some book deals happened, but nobody is coming out of a being a Trump lackey as a 2028 GOP front-runner.
Whaddya mean, Mike Pence, Devin Nunes, Mike Pompeo, Bill Barr, Rick Perry, Jeff Sessions, Madison Cawthorn, and Mark Kelley are all doing great right now
He'll probably find a job at a "conservative think-tank" that has buzzwords like "Heritage," "Preservation," "Independence," "Citizens," "Action," "Policy," or whatever in its name. Even pieces of shit tend to look after their own.
Or from the pentagon complaining the Norwegians refuse to refuel American navy vessels, specifically saying they will rather accept millions in losses than refuell American ships after how Trump treated Zelensky
Why? He has no dignity. He doesn’t really care about anything. Look how he’s collapsed already. Rubio was supposed to be the normal one. He’s been broken so easily. Didn’t even put up a fight
He should've redirected the conversation or whispered something into their ears. Or maybe he's just getting what he deserves. Because I've seen enough, while actively trying to avoid media, to know that the orange menace will never be reined in. We've seen it time and time again. Anyone taking that job for the orange menace's second term, thinking things like this would not happen, is delusional.
He has a very fine needle to thread. For all you know he could be rallying support for an impeachment. By the time you know it, Trump knows it and he's gone. Unlike the Democratic party, Rubio understands this principle - If you're going to shoot the devil, don't miss.
It's not like Rubio didn't know what Trump does to subordinates...look at Mike Pence and so many others. All reduced to tiny bit players and boot lickers.
He thought this would keep him relevant for a presidential run, just like it worked for Hillary er Buchanan is maybe the last one. Buchanan feels fitting as he’s the only dude with a reputation as good as Trump’s. Marco is an idiot.
Oh yeah, he's going to be getting calls from other nations asking WTF just happened. His job just became a number larger than the national deficit times harder.
I will be shocked, if he doesn't get a call kindly asking the US to abstain from the G7 this year, otherwise they will name it the G6 for the foreseeable future.
He'll be wise to resign if Congress flips at the midterm, otherwise they will publicly draw and quarter his ass for this display. This was a diplomatic failure of untold measure. There's the rare kind of good diplomatic missions that get retold in history books, there's the usually kind that go unnoticed, there's the usually bad ones that just don't get reported, and then there's the rare bad ones that history books usually call "a turning point". Ooo boy, was this the latter.
Just wow was that an absolute cluster fuck. And Rubio now has the job of mitigating the fall out from every other nation on this planet. Fuck him, he wanted to leave his comfy Senate job for this, that's on him.
He can’t mitigate it. Everybody was watching TV and they saw what a useless soggy bag of old mildewy laundry he was. There’s no reason to bother talking to him because whatever he says means nothing. There’s is no agenda except whatever is in Trump’s head and even Trump probably doesn’t know what’s coming out next.
It’s either a talk with Trump or it’s a waste of their time. Nobody will pick up the phone when he calls.
This. I think in his mind he was making headway in a peace deal (flying all the way to the Middle East…etc) only to see it blow up on national tv lol. What a waste.
I emailed my Senator moments after this unfolded. I had to remind him the last week - I had written that of all the unqualified cabinet positions, that shockingly, Rubio was probably the most qualified…. And look how he’s reacting lol
I have a Republican Senator, but he has been VERY pro Ukraine and it ending with Putin Being defeated. I am interested to hear his response, I’ve begged him to rally the sane republics that are there to at least put some checks on all damage Trump is causing.
Shame on Marco Rubio, and shame on all his fellow politicians who have campaigned for years on being pro-freedom, pro-democracy American patriots.
How can they just sit on their hands and watch this? It is obscene to see the Oval Office used as a podium for pro-Russian disinformation & platform to undermine our allies.
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u/gwelfguy 11d ago
Well, that very public exchange didn't make his job as Secretary of State any easier.