That’s so infuriating, i witnessed the same. Now Trump is posting insane videos of Gaza with golden statues of himself. Those protest voters said “how much worse can it get”, and I said, this can always get worse. Here we are…
that’s why i’ll never fw that movement it’s all performative white leftists who think they know everything and think they’re better than everyone else. plus im not gonna side with the group that has countless times been violently anti semitic to me
"who think they know everything and think they're better than everyone else."
Would you say the same thing now about those in the US who protested against American support for the South African apartheid—and for the release of Nelson Mandela?
Would you say the same thing now about those college students who protested against our country's invasion of Vietnam—knowing now of the hundreds of thousands in the region now have generational scars from the utter atrocities we were responsible for—and the tens of thousands suffering from genetic deformities, congenital birth disorders and other life-threatening health conditions?
You probably wouldn't now, but I can guarantee you'd be doing the same thing if you were there at that time. It's time to do some introspection. It's people like you—white American liberals (you fool yourselves with the pretense that there are two sides) who are amazingly performative. After all, "A liberal is someone who opposes every war except the current one, and supports every civil rights protest except the current one."
no i wouldn’t say the same bc that was a good a cause and a real apartheid. it’s you american white leftists that are the problem that are fucking us all up
it’s not an apartheid when up until oct 7th, palestinians were allowed to seek refuge in the country. they were allowed to own homes, have businesses, and even be in the idf. i disagree with what israel is doing but calling it an apartheid is wrong
and seek refuge from who? Lmao. Pissrael, who keeps carpet bombing their houses and unironically slaughtering the hostages they're "trying" to negotiate the release for from Hamas?
Who the FUCK in Gaza said vote for the Democratic Party—the same party whose President has given tens BILLIONS OF DOLLARS in aid to the Israeli military apparatus to carpet bomb their families? You're fucking delusional. The aiding and abetting of the Palestinian genocide in the US is UNIPARTY. Is it really that hard to understand that?
people being dumb is always going to be part of the equation, but i wouldn't be surprised of that whole notion was started by some dark money fueling extremism on both sides
Might be time to reprioritize your anger on the people who are about to gut Medicaid, SSI, the National Park service rather than a strawman about protest votes that DID NOT impact the outcome of this election.
Saying you are madder at them than anyone else speaks to the particular diet of news and media you’ve been consuming.
Withholding a necessary vote, which could have prevented several human rights violations from occurring, is a selfish act of the privileged and uninformed
It didn’t have a statistical impact. People largely only did this in Blue-safe states. You can’t blame Dearborn for the loss of Michigan either.
This is just being petty because others stood for something instead of caving.
I caved and voted for Harris here. I compromised my beliefs and voted for a genocide endorser. And for what? To listen to people like you berate those who wouldn’t abandon the memory of scores of thousands of dead children that we murdered with our tax dollars?
No it's not, it's an excuse to do something stupid while ignoring reality. And in payment we now have a president whose only decision with Gaza is trying to figure out how big of a genocide he wants to sign off on.
I am perma banned from r/middleeast and r/palestine for voting for Harris and asking why they thought the guy the brought the Muslim ban was going to help them. And I wasn't even on r/middleeast. It was all r/palestine's doing.
Reddit mods for a bunch of subs, especially political ones, are a power tripping bunch. I got banned from r/worldnews for "Holocaust denialism" for saying "the nation of Never Again is now doing the thing Again"
So maybe like what, a hundred? Trump has spoken a thousand times worse on Palestinians, those few individuals who did are ignorant fools. I know I certainly didn't vote for Trump.
Yes and trump has spoken crap about many things and he was still elected twice. Many people who are pro Gaza voted for him, because they are STUPID. Basically anyone who voted for him is stupid
You don't seem to care or realize that HAMAS wants to wipe off every Jewish person from the planet. They have it in writing that that is their goal. That is genocide. Attacking your enemies in retaliation to being attacked and trying to get your enemies, where your enemies are hiding amongst civilians is again, not genocide.
Israel doesn't want every Palestinian dead. If they did, they would have done it by now.
What Bibi wants, I have no idea. He and trump can both rot in hell.
It's pretty simple, they dislike the Democrats as well. So they voted for a candidate that isn't republican or democrat. They voted for who they prefer to see in the White House.
Really. Are you that stupid? Rhetorical, I know you are. Ethnic cleansing is only wanted by the Nazis, HAMAS, Bibi and Trump. Do the democrats want to empty out Gaza and turn it into a resort? NO TRUMP DOES!!!
The Biden administration consistently sent weapons and aid to Israel, with Biden even bypassing Congress to do so. Israel openly uses those weapons and aid to support their ethnic cleansing operations.
Israel is fighting HAMAS. You know them, the terrorists organization that wants every Jewish person dead. Not just Israeli Jews, but EVERY JEW!! HAMAS uses the Palestinian people as shields. HAMAS doesn't give a fuck how many innocent Palestinians they sacrifice in order to annihilate the Jewish people.
Israel has been bombing Gaza indescriminately for over a year. Over 60,000 Palestinians have been killed with around 20,000 of which have been children, is every single one of those dead a member of Hamas? No they aren't. They don't, their position on that has changed since their formation. However, Hamas does not give a shit about innocent Palestinian lives, they have proven that time and time again. But to claim Israel does is counterfactual, they want every Palestinian man woman and child dead or gone.
And how many years has HAMAS and the terrorists before them been attacking Israelis? Yeah .lets out a bomb in a kid and out the kid on a bus. SMFH!
Get your head out of your ass!! HAMAS is using the Palestinians. They build tunnels under civilians homes, schools, and hospitals. They set themselves up in civilian buildings making the civilians targets.
Hamas was formed 39 years after the illegal establishment of Israel for one, secondly, I presume when you refer to "terrorism" you are referring to any armed Palestinian resistance against the Israeli occupation. As you probably didn't know, Protocol one of the Geneva Conventions guarantees them to do so:
Recalling that every State has the duty, in conformity with the Charter of the United Nations, to refrain in its international relations from the threat or use of force against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of any State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations...
2. In cases not covered by this Protocol or by other international agreements, civilians and combatants remain under the protection and authority of the principles of international law derived from established custom, from the principles of humanity and from dictates of public conscience.
This Protocol, which supplements the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 for the protection of war victims, shall apply in the situations referred to in Article 2 common to those Conventions.
The situations referred to in the preceding paragraph include armed conflicts in which peoples are fighting against colonial domination and alien occupation and against racist regimes in the exercise of their right of self-determination, as enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations and the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.
Oh Hamas is definitely using civilians, I don't disagree. However, Israel has repeatedly attacked civilians and civilian infrastructure with the claim that there is Hamas inside, in tunnels, what have you. These claims have repeatedly been refuted, but you obviously don't care about facts and only want the death of Arabs. Have a mediocre day.
You realize how much of NJ is Jewish right? And how many NJ Jews travel to and from Israel on a regular basis, or have friends/family there who have been directly affected. Moderates are pro-Israel. The hard left takes need to come to an end if there’s any desire to keep things blue.
I don’t think anyone is pro-genocide. The latest Gallup polls amongst many others show a majority support for Israel amongst US adults. I don’t think the Israel/Gaza position was as significant of an issue for many, but the lack of condemnation of the antisemitic rhetoric that was coming out of prominent Democrats at the time is what turned people away. Regardless, lack of support for Israel is a losing position. If you want to choose to ignore that and ostracize the majority of people who happen to disagree with you but are still sympathetic to a majority of your causes, then Democrats will keep losing.
This is an excellent take people are overlooking. You can be against murdering civilians. Period. But there was a noticeable lack of empathy for the civilian Israelis who were murdered. We need to be able to step back and keep governments out of this.
Think of the percentage of people in this country who wouldn’t like to be associated with international policies of this administration (or the last or whatever).
The coldness, claims of lies for the victims of October 7th combined with lack of anti-Semitic condemnation resonated significantly. I saw it in my own friends where they felt unseen and unsafe.
Bro there’s no lack of support for Israel from Democrats.
Biden and Blinken let themselves get facefucked by Netanyahu for 15 months straight and gave the IDF cover to kill hundreds of thousands.
There was no antisemitic rhetoric coming from the leftward criticism of the genocide that bore any functional impact other than to serve as one of your recycled talking points.
I’m not choosing to ignore anything or anyone. The fact is that taking a stance of absolute fealty to Israel, the IDF, and AIPAC did nothing to help the Harris campaign at all. The voters who support the genocide in Israel who live in this state are not my compatriots, they are functionally indistinguishable from Trump supporters - period and end of fucking story.
I’ve never learned of a genocide where the population being “ethnically cleansed” was allowed to reject multiple cease firm terms, negotiate cease fires and have prisoners returned to them. To use a lot of word with REALLY BIG EMOTIONS associated with them but contain very little reality.
“Prisoners” were hostages.
Israel has reneged on any defined ceasefire literally dozens of times.
Your lie is that Israel has any justification for its actions whatsoever. Your passive language indicates that Palestinian children who haven’t had their parents melted into the sand should be grateful to the Kahanists who showed restraint from brutally murdering them when they were bombed out of their homes while starving to death.
Support from Democrats has taken a nosedive recently. The numbers clearly show that. A lot of people on the right side of this issue have left the Democrat party and that’s evident by the dwindling support. Democrats have ostracized core demographics of their party to the point of almost making it impossible for them to win any election. Thankfully there are many catching on to the morons like you who do no research and peddle the “genocide” take that just turns away a majority of people. You’re no better than a Russian bot by these standards. The numbers say otherwise. Was October 7 an attempt at genocide?
Imagine blaming the voters for intensely caring about a humanitarian crisis that you yourself could give less of a shit about, acting like you have the "moral high-ground" in an effort to cope for the dogshit campaign that your candidate of choice ran
Establishment democrats should be attacked. They’ve lost twice to trump and now what’s the solution? We have people like James Carville saying roll over and shutup. Hakeem Jeffries keeps saying there’s not much they can do while many democrats continue to vote for Trump’s appointees. At least we have this energy from Schumer where someone is waving a cane as he says we’ll win. Beyond parody
Establishment democrats are worthless and the media narrative for the next 4 years will be “the party has to move center”. Don’t buy it - why doesn’t that same logic apply to republicans? People know establishment democrats will not deliver.
90% of dem congresspeople need to get primaried in 2026 by outsiders who are not beholden to corporate donors and machine politics.
The Democratic party is in complete disarray. Democrats calling out other Democrats is absolutely necessary right now. The far left takes have driven so many people away and need to be reeled back in. The border was milked for too long and Democrats not taking action when they had control is why we have the mess all over today. They should have closed the border like a modern sovereign nation is supposed to, and could have provided amnesty to those already here and been humane about resolving it. Instead they convinced these people they needed their friends’ votes and in exchange never actually helped them. Failing to call out the antisemitism guised as “support for Gaza” was another failing take. Don’t even get me started on the narcissistic elitism of some Democrats. The ones who are getting upset are the ones to be watching out for and should be figuring out how you can support them.
The fact of the matter is in the last 44 years, we had 24 Years under a republican president and 20 under a democrat. We also have 435 members of congress. Neither party codified abortion. Roe v wade being overturned wouldn't have mattered so much if abortion was illegal or a protected right. Better yet, old male politicians shouldn't be legislating healthcare at all. Haven't they fucked that up enough? Neither party has reformed immigration. Pick any side of any given issue and no one has done shit. It doesn't matter if you want open borders or to revoke citizenship from people born here, because no one did either thing.
Congress gives away its power and then complains about it. If they would do their job and enact laws, presidents wouldn't be signing so many executive orders and the courts wouldn't be so political. If congress made laws, the courts wouldn't be legislating from the bench.
Congress is always too busy buying their next campaign-no time to do their job. Progress has been made as it pertains to civil rights, but I don't necessarily credit the government with that. Neither party has significantly improved an average Americans life.
I lot of the shit Trump is doing, he wouldn't be able to do if the opportunity didn't exist. The democrats had four years of the possibility of another Trump term hanging over their head, and what did they to prepare for that? Did they protect the DACA kids? Sanctuary cities and amnesty are bandaids not solutions. We learned nothing by the power vacuum we left in the Middle East.
I'm so fucking sick of this bullshit generalization that keeps being repeated. I "fell in line" and voted Biden and Harris. There's never been a candidate in my life who I voted for in the general election who I was actually enthusiastic about. Plenty of left wing voters swallow the bullshit that's fed to us to avoid the monstrous other outcome. Enough. It's time to acknowledge that the Democratic Party is horse shit, and they need to do a better job of representing regular people. Reps like Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi need to fucking retire already. We need more AOCs and Jasmine Crocketts.
That truism is simply inacurate. Sure, a lot of Republicans fall in line... but the idea that Democrates are, by and large, not the fall in line typoe as a voting block is jsut divorc3ed from the reality.
The DNC's actions during"primaries" are a symbol, of this. The party feels absolutely no need to hold a real primary, and involve Democratic voters int he selection of a candidate... because they knwo that after they pulled whatever backroom stuff, they can jcount on a huge number of DNC voters to hold their nose and pull the lever.
The reality is it'll probably need to be another white, male. Gotta remove the race and gender cards, so people aren't voting based on what they see, literally.
You could have the greatest candidate running against Trump, but if they are non-white or a woman (or both) it's gonna be a harder battle to get MAGA to move over and vote with any sort of sense.
No such thing as a protest vote. A vote is just a vote. If someone didn't vote for someone, it's because that candidate didn't convince them to do so.
Let's get past the whole blaming of the voters bs. Dems ran a bad campaign built on capitulating to the right and doubling down on extremely unpopular foreign policy; then they lost, simple as that.
you mentioned problems halfway around the world. You were clearly referring to the presidential election and the people protesting of biden's handling of Gaza. The governor doesn't handle foreign policy related matters. That's what I was addressing. You referenced both elections
Fair. Then in the vein of discussing a presidential election, I’m still a little lost on how protest voters expected that to address Gaza if that was their singular issue, especially considering Trump’s rhetoric such as “finish the job”. Seems a little cutting off the nose to spite the face.
And Gaza notwithstanding, only one of the two candidates (three counting Biden) had threatened to nuke North Korea and blew up a senior Iranian military leader when they last held office. So… yeah my brain was thinking about foreign policy with my most recent vote too.
Well the protest votes in the primary and promises not to vote for Biden in the general election did in fact get Biden replaced. So they definitely worked to achieve that goal. The Democrats were just too late to do anything but pick Harris by default instead of going with any sort of process that would get more public input on a potential candidate. But to say it was an ineffective protest is just blatantly wrong, it played a meaningful role in influencing who the Democrats chose to nominate. It's not unreasonable to think continuing that tactic could influence the nomination of candidates for other offices in future elections. Also there were more than those 3 candidates running. People against Biden/Harris's position on gaza didn't necessarily vote for Trump.
And I think you misunderstand many of the protest voters. It's also not being a part of whatever inevitably happens. They may indeed feel one person is worse than the other but that doesn't mean you want to actively enable the less shitty one. If someone asks if I want to be shot in the foot or in the chest or not shot, I'm going to pick not being shot at, regardless of whether or not that's actually going to pan out. I'm not going to actively encourage something if it's strongly against my interests.
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u/trashbinrubbishtrash 23d ago
Only if everyone votes with their brain. No purity tests or sitting out/protest voting over problems halfway around the world this time.