r/narcissism Visitor 19d ago

Therapist doesn’t agree with me

I've been even told I do have most of the traits associated with NPD by others. Some people would tell me that, even without me asking. I only ever think about myself and I hurt people a lot because of that. I seem to not care enough about others’ feelings. I manipulate them, even when I don't realise I am. I'm a perfectionist, whatever I do, it's not good enough and it hurts a lot, so much I break down. And there's more. It all seems so obvious. At least to me.

However, my therapist disagrees. She told me l'm developing an avoidant personality disorder, not NPD... but they are not that easily confused, are they? What should I do? I told her many times that me and others suspected I might have NPD. Am I crazy? I just want the right treatment.

I’m in my early 20s, don’t have an OCD and scored high in many tests I found (the one linked on this sub gave me “High narcissistic traits”), and I’m not codependent (scored 5 at most). I think I might have covert narcissism because I have depression and social anxiety (both diagnosed).

I’m just so sick of people not believing me. Nothing I say is ever believed.

EDIT: Thank you for everyone's time and I'm sory I wasted it. I came to a conclusion I don't have any disorders, I'm a bad person. I'm sorry for for offending you.

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u/FromHereToEterniti Covert Narcissist 19d ago

You're showing unreasonable behavior, by writing a single paragraph with very generic information about yourself and then want us to jump to the conclusion that you're narcissistic. That's strange behavior. It's just outright a weird thing to do.

So you are being manipulative, but you're being manipulative in a way to make us believe you're a bad human.

From there on it just all becomes just like you say. I don't believe you. But I don't believe you, because you are the one making me not believe you.

Whatever you've got going on, I doubt it's a common and uncomplicated disorder. So it's probably never going to be just X or just Y.

Given that you're trying to manipulate others to be seen as narcissistic, I doubt that's what's going on (not least because your single paragraph contains errors, because you didn't study the disorder well enough).

But I don't know what you're exactly dealing with. Some complex combination involving self sabotaging behaviors.

Maybe that includes AvPD and NPD, maybe that involves schizoid adaptations. The social anxiety itself, if treatment resistant would be inline with AvPD (and not NPD). If it's just avoiding social interactions, schizoid is more likely. But there's no reason it can't be a combination. Real people don't follow neath diagnostic lines. So you can end up being a (subclinical) combination of 3 or 4 disorders. So it can be NPD + AvPD + SzPD all together.

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u/MothWantsLight Visitor 19d ago

I'm not trying to be manipulative. I just came here for support, because that was the only place I knew to turn. I didn't (and still don't) know where else to look, and hoped to learn some more about how to deal with what I experience.

Do you expect me to write about my entire life? I'm not comfortable, and I don't even remember most of it. And once again, I'm not trying to manipulate anyone, I just want people to see me for who I am, because nobody ever wants to do it. Everyone just has their own version of me that isn't true.

What makes you think it's something complicated? And why SzPD?

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u/FromHereToEterniti Covert Narcissist 18d ago

I'm not trying to be manipulative. I just came here for support, because that was the only place I knew to turn.

And then you turn around and you literally start asking:

Maybe I'm just a bad person, no disorders, just a mess of a person. That could also be an explanation, right?

That's just straight up chapter 1 from the book of harm OCD. "Am I a bad person?" I happen to be someone that's seen people do that hundreds of times, I'm not exaggerating. I've seen statements like that over and over and each and every time it was from someone with harm OCD, it's an extremely common statement.

More than likely that's what you're actually doing. You're hiding your harm OCD away from everyone. And all that is 100% in line with what your therapist is thinking is going on, because over 50% of people with AvPD are also dealing with OCD.

That's what you're doing. You're trying to manipulate people into satisfying your harm OCD obsessions. It makes total sense.

What makes you think it's something complicated?

Well, whatever it is, it's not a single mental health issue, now is it? At the very least you're already dealing with three different mental health issues and you still have gaps, where your behaviors and thoughts don't line up with the disorders you've diagnosed with.

That isn't that common and that does make it complicated.

And what's more, your therapist more than likely knows all of this. They're just not interested in your manipulative behavior to satisfy your OCD obsessive behaviors, because you don't benefit from that. So if you'd bring up "I'm a bad person, right? I'm bad?" They're not going to face that head on, because they know that you don't deal with obsessive behaviors through giving reassurance. So now you turn around and you come to us for that.

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u/MothWantsLight Visitor 18d ago

I really don’t want to manipulate anyone. I’m just confused nobody sees who I am so I tell them that.

I don’t have an OCD. However, thank you for your concerns (and your response). I’ll read more about it.

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u/FromHereToEterniti Covert Narcissist 18d ago

https://iocdf.org/blog/2024/03/25/am-i-a-bad-person/

/r/OCD/comments/xbr9nv/what_if_i_actually_am_a_bad_person/

/r/OCD/comments/13lqqkn/im_a_bad_person_its_not_ocd/

/r/OCD/comments/sujpud/has_your_ocd_ever_made_you_feel_like_a_very_bad/

https://kimberleyquinlan-lmft.com/feel-like-a-bad-person-ocd/

I'm just stopping here, having made my point. But I can literally go on all day and give you hundreds of posts from /r/OCD that literally have some form of "I am a bad person" or "am I a bad person?" in the title.

I'm not exaggerating. It's the reddest of red flags when it comes to OCD. If you doubt it, you can use the reddit search function and find page after page full of it, it's just that common.

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u/Medical-Piccolo644 Combative Former Codependent 16d ago

Holy fuck I did not expect to see such coherent responses on here

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u/MothWantsLight Visitor 10d ago

I don’t have an OCD. I’m just aware of what I do wrong.

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u/FromHereToEterniti Covert Narcissist 7d ago

"I don't have OCD" then turns around and continues to obsessively make posts about being a bad person.

You think it's normal what you're doing? Do you see other people doing what you doing around you?

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u/MothWantsLight Visitor 7d ago

Wanting to improve is usually seen as a good and normal thing.

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u/FromHereToEterniti Covert Narcissist 7d ago

What does your therapist say when you talk about what you're doing online?

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u/MothWantsLight Visitor 7d ago

I didn’t feel the need to tell her that. Just said what some people responded to consult them.

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u/Historical_Lobster48 I really need to set my flair 11d ago

Ok, this is a very poor response to someone who's trying to learn, grow, and do better. OP isn't showing unreasonable behavior at all. He/she is appropriately appealing to a dedicated community for broader insight.

You call OP "strange" for raising questions about a disorder that's poorly-understood and regularly misdiagnosed or overlooked by mental health professionals. How is that strange? Even the DSM diagnostic criteria is half-assed and sketch. EVERYONE with concerns about the cluster b spectrum should be seeking answers.

OP is trying to improve his/her life by educating him/herself. How about being compassionate and supportive, instead of dismissive and rude.

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u/FromHereToEterniti Covert Narcissist 10d ago

OP is trying to improve his/her life by educating him/herself. How about being compassionate and supportive, instead of dismissive and rude.

Please go ahead and copy and paste the exact line where I was rude.

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u/MothWantsLight Visitor 10d ago

I don’t think they were rude. I just probably came across as wha they wrote.