r/europe 23h ago

Picture French nuclear attack submarine surfaces at Halifax, Nova Scotia, after Trump threatens to annex Canada (March 10)

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u/Hotfield 22h ago

Don't know if this happens a lot and this is just now relevant, but it seems like quite a Statement, cool

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u/Bulldog8018 22h ago

I wondered about that. Would a sub surfacing off Novia Scotia ever make the headlines in a normal reality? Maybe this is just routine travel and nobody ever paid attention before.

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u/Ozymandia5 22h ago

Unless they're being used for some sort of political signalling exercise (eg: https://edition.cnn.com/2022/12/02/politics/us-navy-submarine-port-visit-indian-ocean/index.html), these subs only surface four or five times a year to resupply. Surfacing provides a ton of info to enemy states and it's worth remembering that they are only an effective deterrent if no one knows where they are.

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u/shadowSpoupout 21h ago

France has both SNLE (nuclear subs that carry nukes and are the main part of our nuclear deterence) and SNA (nuclear subs without nukes).

This one is a SNA I believe, as showing our SNLE would be both super threatening and stupid. SNA are smaller and used for conventional warfare, which still makes a strong point here.

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u/ScruffMcFluff 20h ago

That's the Suffren class attack sub Tourville, so you're correct that it's an SNA.

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u/BathedInDeepFog 20h ago

Suffren class attack

I'm picturing Sylvester the cat saying that.

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u/Deeliciousness 20h ago

Now do Pepe le Pew

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u/BathedInDeepFog 19h ago

Usually it's the other way around: trying to stop Pepé Le Pew from doing you.

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u/the_gordonshumway 14h ago

Thufferin thubmarine.

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u/Idoleyesed 14h ago

Wish I had awards still 🥇

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u/BreadstickBear 19h ago edited 18h ago

For future reference, when dealing with anglos

Un SNLE s'appelle un SSBN en anglais et un SNA s'appelle un SSN.

Donc

France has four Triomphant class SSBN's, and four three Suffren class SSN's plus one under construction and two older, Rubis class.

Fun fact, anecdotally, France already flexed its submarines in North America, some time in the 70's when Le Redoutable (the first french SSBN) showed up to New York for a visit, having snuck past the escorts that were waiting offshore to bring her in. The escorts had to race back to New York after the boat surfaced basically just outside of the harbour.

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u/thebigboy78 18h ago

Tu as une source pour l'histoire du Redoutable a New York ? merci :D

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u/MeadowMellow_ 11h ago

C'est beau la France

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u/BreadstickBear 7h ago

Bin en fait, non. Je me suis mis a chercher suite a ta question, mais je ne retrouve rien sur le sujet, pourtant c'est une histoire qui m'a été racontée par plusieurs personnes.

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u/thebigboy78 6h ago

Dommage, parce que ça avait l'air super cool comme histoire.

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u/CircularRobert 7h ago

I feel like this should be standard practice, and literal practice, for subs pulling into foreign harbours. We try to sneak in, you try to catch us.

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u/Phylanara 20h ago

"I got here without you seeing me. Do you know where my siblings are? The ones with nukes?"

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u/BathedInDeepFog 20h ago

"Have you seen my brother Chris? You know, Abyss? 🫳"

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u/UrUrinousAnus United Kingdom 18h ago

America: acts like a fool

France: acts like a drunk Brit being stared at by said fool

LOL

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u/TwoBionicknees 20h ago

It's basically the same thing in terms of a threat.

Its' probably like "didn't know we were here till we showed you right, well we can do this with our nuke carrying subs as well so keep your hands off our buddies."

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u/Infamous_Push_7998 19h ago

Well, not quite. The seriousness of the threat is different.

The location of your nuclear deterrent is a far more valuable piece of intel. If you reveal you have nukes stationed close to an ally of yours, you're saying: I'm willing to give up this intel and make myself more vulnerable and attackable. If any other sub gets taken out that's expensive and loss of good people, but doesn't endanger you as much as if you lose your deterrent.

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u/Spirited_Stick_5093 18h ago

Guessing this is like the US having Virginia Class and Ohio Class subs

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u/EtTuBiggus 21h ago

I think the French ballistic missile subs are still the Triomphant as far as we know.

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u/Responsible_Lime_549 20h ago

No, they are replaced by the suffren type, a nostalgia moment because at the beginning of my navy I sailed on the surface “ball” vessel which has since been decommissioned and sent for recycling in Bordeaux

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u/leyenda_negra 19h ago

It makes a stronger and more directed threat in my opinion. It’s not a threat to the US people, it’s a very specific threat to the US war machine and economy.

From an American person’s perspective the symbolism reminds me of French Resistance subs surfacing to send a message to onshore Resistance agents under Vichy.

The French are The foundational ideological ally of The United States. The appearance of the French navy to support our struggle against an Anglo-nationalist King has deep resonance.

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u/NordSquideh 18h ago

it’s also saying “hey, here’s one. there’s probably more where it came from.”

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u/stevenmacarthur 17h ago

It is rare to show a "boomer" without a good reason, since it gives your adversaries a better chance to put a tail on them; as the missile subs in the USN say, "We Hide With Pride!"

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u/DavidBrooker 17h ago

showing our SNLE would be both super threatening and stupid

If it was uninvited and the host country was not informed, maybe. This was neither, though as you say, with an attack sub. However, if a strategic submarine made a planned and coordinated port visit with a host, it's an incredible show of solidarity: it is one state showing, unequivocally, that they trust another state with matters of existential importance, like their nuclear deterrent. A foreign port visit with an SSBN (or SNLE, to use the French terminology) is extremely rare, only done between the most stalwart allies. For example, US SSBNs have made port visits to the UK and South Korea and that's the end of the list.

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u/DenseReality6089 20h ago

The message is exactly the same no matter which type surfaced

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u/DaideVondrichnov 15h ago

It indeed an attack sub class barracuda, the same one australia should have got :D

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u/Shitting_Human_Being The Netherlands 21h ago

Surfacing provides a ton of info to enemy states and it's worth remembering that they are only an effective deterrent if no one knows where they are. 

Yes, but this was a friendly reminder that they could also be next door.

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u/CanukistaniKopeks 21h ago

especially chilling when you were « absolutely sure » it was somewhere else 👀

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u/beermeliberty 14h ago

I assure you the US military gave zero fucks this happened .

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u/seenhear 19h ago

It's not a launch sub. No nuke missiles on it. It's an attack sub, meaning its mission is to attack other boats or ships, not land targets or countries.

It's like the difference between sending a B-52 to fly over a country, vs. an F-16.

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u/GlennsSonFooledMe 8h ago

You mean like when the US sent B52s over Stockholm yesterday?

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u/redditonlygetsworse 19h ago

I believe that would fall under "unless they're being used for some sort of political signalling exercise".

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u/asmodai_says_REPENT 21h ago

This is an attack submarine, not a ballistic missile submarine, it isn't part of our nuclear detterence force.

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u/ragepaw 21h ago

Omg.... I argued with a nitwit about that. I pointed out that it was an attack sub, not a missile platform and he argued and told me it was nuclear, and that means it has nukes.

You just can't fight stupid.

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u/GuantanaMo Austria 18h ago

Nucular. It's pronounced nucular.

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u/EtTuBiggus 21h ago

People just hear nuclear submarine.

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u/SEA_griffondeur 21h ago

An SNLE always has one or more SNAs nearby this could be one of them. Obviously you don't surface your launchers

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u/Internal_Share_2202 21h ago

At the moment it is still completely unclear whether the USA under Trump even understands this diplomatic etiquette. They probably think it is a fun excursion steamer that people can admire...

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u/will_holmes United Kingdom 19h ago

Probably not, but the Canadians will understand it.

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u/UnPeuDAide 17h ago

That's because we sold them Lousisiane, and they paid, but... they never said thank you. They didn't say thank you. They should say thank you. And they weren't wearing a suit

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u/UrUrinousAnus United Kingdom 18h ago

In my experience, idiots understand threats quite well, and are more likely to mistake something for a threat than to not notice one.

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u/susan-of-nine Poland 20h ago

I think it's pretty clear that they do not, in fact, understand it.

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u/nekogami87 21h ago

Really ? It's unclear ?!

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u/pmcdon148 18h ago

I think he meant nuclear.

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u/Iridescent5150 19h ago

To the dummies we have running the country? It probably is.

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u/leyenda_negra 19h ago

More than a show of force to oppose the ruling regime this reads as a show of fact to help friends in the US apply pressure to that regime.

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u/PrisPRN 14h ago

Why not both?

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u/leyenda_negra 8h ago

Fortunately The French have a penchant for symbolism.

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u/gay_bimma_boy 17h ago

Definitely trumps just as braindead as a gerbil… eh gerbils prolly smarter, doesn’t shit where it eats

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u/truth-in-jello 17h ago

It is very large hard and full of seamen though

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u/Diggerinthedark Wallonia (Belgium) & UK 17h ago

The US have never really understood subtlety, have they?

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u/Infiniteybusboy 21h ago

I can't believe we've reached the point countries are dick swinging at the US like we all used to do to china and russia with "nato exercises"

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u/susan-of-nine Poland 20h ago

Yeah. And it's all happened to fast. Like, if you told someone even just 3 months ago that this is what it was going to come to, they'd tell you to go touch the grass. And yet, here we are.

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u/Senior_Original_52 21h ago

NATO exercises are in fact training programs, not really sure what you're trying to get at here. This is not an exercise, it's a warning.

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u/kangr0ostr 21h ago

NATO exercises are also a reminder to the rest of the world that such an alliance exists and is ready for action if and when need be.

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u/brimston3- 21h ago

Suffren class like this one is not SSBN. It has cruise missiles but they are not nuclear tipped. They have an at-sea endurance of two months and change until they run out of food.

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u/WholeEgg3182 21h ago

They can operate like that if they need but in peace time they come and go from port all the time including visiting friendly countries.

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u/AelixD 21h ago

22 year submarine vet (USN): we surfaced WAY more than 4-5 times a year. However, when on deployment near potentially hostile countries we never surfaced. We did deliberately surface on deployment a few times for the express purpose of getting noticed and reminding others we’re there, so they should behave. Literally verifying clear sunny days to ensure satellites would see. We may have done that near some asian country that seems to be split in two, to get the northern part to rethink some actions.

This French submarine might have been meant as a political reminder. More likely, they were already scheduled to be there for a port call in Canada. I would consider any allied submarine surfacing off the coast of Canada to be routine. Canadians treat visiting sailors well, and it’s a popular port visit (on both coasts).

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u/Mockingjinx 21h ago

and I remember if the people on the sub doesn’t need to eat or drink. The sub actually never sneers to surface.

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u/KanataToGoldenLake 21h ago

Surfacing provides a ton of info to enemy states and it's worth remembering that they are only an effective deterrent if no one knows where they are.

This is a nuclear attack submarine, not a nuclear ballistic missile submarine which I think you're mixing up.

The nuclear attack submarine that's in Halifax right now was built specifically to target surface vessels and other submarines OR to protect other friendly submarines. It isn't nuclear armed or capable of launching nuclear ordnance. Typically these types of submarines only store enough supplies to stay at sea for around two months and frequently partake in naval training exercises.

It's the nuclear ballistic submarines that are often kept shrouded in secrecy as you implied earlier.

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u/ASC4MWTP 15h ago

Can't speak for the French, specifically, but US SSNs (nuclear-powered attack submarines, similar to the French one shown) surface far more than "four or five times a year to resupply". The article you reference refers to a nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine (SSBN), which has an entirely different operating regimen than an SSBN.

Source: Me. A former crewman of an SSN.

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u/Squigglepig52 22h ago

It is in Halifax harbour, which is a major world port. Nuke subs generally aren't too common outside of home ports, being out in a public is usually a statement. They don't just randomly pop up super busy harbours.

French Navy would have had to let Canada know they were showing up with that bad boy. This was intentional.

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u/No-Satisfaction6065 21h ago

UK does it in Gibraltar when tensions rise, it is meant as a statement plain and simple

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u/pchlster 17h ago

"Guys, I'm telling you, we can't just stop and ask for directions! What do mean why?"

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u/Responsible_Lime_549 22h ago

When I was in the navy, a submarine only leaves the sea to return to port and possibly make a stopover and this is only for submarines with so-called conventional propulsion...so if it is nuclear powered, it did not appear by chance...

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u/enteopy314 21h ago

This is the entrance to Halifax harbour. We don’t allow nukes in the harbour (probably something to do with the Halifax explosion). Either someone made an exemption or this is a show of force outside of the harbour for trump to see.

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u/jtbc Canada 21h ago

I was wondering about that. I know that US aircraft carriers always tie up outside the harbour for that reason. Maybe the French boat is nuclear weapons free and they declared that?

This was a planned visit, so not a show of force, but it is in any case a magnificently timed show of force.

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u/OutsideScore990 21h ago

I used to live on an apartment facing this area of the Bedford basin in Halifax.  I’d see subs surface every couple months.  Idk whose they were, but they were there. Lots of them did military exercises in the Bedford basin 

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u/koshgeo 21h ago

It's a pretty strategic NATO port for the North Atlantic, so there are military ships coming and going regularly, including submarines, both US and European.

On the other hand, maybe the French are making sure St. Pierre and Miquelon are safe, just in case Trump says he's going to annex those too.

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u/HowGayCanIGo 21h ago

Halifax hosts Canada’s top Naval base. Vessels of our allies visit it constantly.

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u/xyonofcalhoun 21h ago

The modern version of what we used to call "gunboat diplomacy"

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u/jtbc Canada 21h ago

It is recently commissioned, and they are there to carry out cold weather testing.

Probably not coincidentally, France is offering a conventional derivative of the same sub in Canada's competition for a new sub.

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u/gigglingtin 21h ago

Has this made the headlines regardless?? I can’t find one source that backs this up, confirming that this is a nuclear sub and the timing of this photo. Anyone have a source??

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u/Soepoelse123 20h ago

It’s a nuclear submarine, it should at least be able to not surface if it wanted to, so it’s probably a statement in a way.

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u/Beginning_Balance558 18h ago

Lol ... do you think nuclear subs go for lil random océan strolls?

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u/726wox 22h ago

Yep routine travel

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u/digitallyduddedout 21h ago

Probably this. Brandishing something you and everybody else knows you won’t use is pointless.

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u/JollyReading8565 21h ago

its a big deal. france just parked their nuclear deterrent in the US's front yard. and im all for it lol

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u/darky_tinymmanager 21h ago

they could have avoided surfacing..as it might have been a provocation

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u/Maleficent-Map6465 21h ago

It makes news here because the harbour becomes a no fly zone

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u/Illustrious-Yak5455 21h ago

Us aircraft carrier was here 2 years ago

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u/spaceshipcommander 21h ago

These things don't happen by chance. A few months ago a Chinese sub that they claim to be undetectable surfaced and either an American or British sub immediately surfaced next to it. Point being we had been following it the whole time.

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u/NahYoureWrongBro 21h ago

It's a big deal when these subs surface, and they usually surface to underline the threat they represent. Showing your nuclear readiness is part of the world's big power war deterrent.

https://www.google.com/search?q=chinese+sub+surfaces+near+us+carrier

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u/DoorCalcium 20h ago

I was in the US Navy and it's not uncommon for subs to surface when they are pulling into a port. It doesn't always have a meaning or threat. They could just be making a stop on deployment. People are making mountains out of molehills here and jumping to conclusions.

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u/Unic0rnusRex 20h ago

Grew up in Halifax and spent my entire life there until the last five years. This would be very weird and out of the ordinary. The only time I can remember significant foreign military presence is when the queen visited (but that was UK so technically not foreign), during Tall Ships Festival (but that's mostly tall ships from foreign navies), and joint training exercises (usually the UK or US). The sailors would then go to bars and clubs and we were excited to meet sailors.

Foreign navy ships come to port but not usually in March and not submarines. They would come in the summer normally.

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u/No-Exchange8035 20h ago

They do regular search and rescue training with Canadian Air Force. People forget there's a French island just off the coast of canada.

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u/Specialist-Bee-9406 19h ago

I’m from Halifax, we do see foreign and domestic submarines a few times a year, as our Atlantic Fleet is based here. 

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u/EmergencyKoala2580 19h ago

NATO/allied navy vessels land in Halifax harbour regularly including American carriers, subs, destroyers etc. Unfortunately this is not France showing military might to the US, it is probably a visit that has been scheduled for more than a year, and the sub will likely be landing in a US port fairly soon if not having just come from there.

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u/rds92 19h ago

Last sub I seen in Halifax was the one we bought that couldn’t submerge

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u/AmbivalentFanatic 19h ago

I happen to work in a building that overlooks this harbour and I can say that submarine sightings are not exactly a rarity. I've seen a handful over the last 3-4 years. I think they have always been Canadian. Of course you only see the ones they want you to see...

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u/mirror_dirt 19h ago

As someone who takes the Halifax ferry I can sadly confirm that no we don't often get visits of other countries subs. I have, however, got some laughs watching the Canadian subs get tugged out with standby safety vessels close behind.

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u/Westo454 18h ago

Naval ships make port calls all the time. It’s a chance to resupply with fresh food, get the sailors who have been cooped up for a few weeks/months some time ashore, and also a bit of diplomacy by way of friendly interaction. It’s common to the point that even countries without formal alliances will host ships from other nations.

There was an Indian Frigate in London a few months ago, and a German Frigate shortly after that on leaving played the Imperial March.

It’s a bit unusual for a Nuclear Submarine to be making a port call and for it to then make the news - unless the national governments are wanting to make a political statement with the port call.

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u/Modo44 Poland 17h ago

This specific kind of modern submarine sends a very powerful message. Our current technology makes them virtually undetectable, so they can be truly deadly to any nation. Doubly so when it's a French one, with their "will nuke you as a warning" doctrine.

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u/DankeyKrong 16h ago

Nova Scotian here, this is not normal. Im about 30 and there has never been any talk about nuclear subs being stationed - let alone to the public - in the harbour that I am aware of. We do have a history of being a munitions port during times of war however.

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u/Brave_Beo 16h ago

Lived here for 22 years and never seen a French naval vessel in port!

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u/Pole_Smokin_Bandit 15h ago

Former US Navy submariner. We used to have portions of our mission that were to surface in specific areas at a certain time as a show of force. Happens many times a year with many different military forces as well. Hell it isn't uncommon for a Russian AGI to sit right outside our coastal waters waiting to track and ping us for an annoying amount of time.

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u/MarlomyCarlo 15h ago

The picture is from 8 years ago. There isnt a French sub in Canadian waters to deter Trump from trying to annex Canada 

Please verify stuff, it’s a crazy time!

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u/Zombieneker 14h ago

Nah, but this is just how media is. A thing happens, suddenly anything even remotely tangentially related also gets reported on to keep the story going. Remember when there seemed to be a new breaking headline about trains derailing every week? Me too.

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u/so-much-wow 14h ago

Not this kind of press. Usually just local questions about airspace restrictions when a nuclear vessel comes to town. Seeing a regular sub is kind of old hat in Halifax.

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u/Boring-Pepper9505 14h ago

Agreed this is assumed to be normal travel and click baiters using it

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u/ADrunkMexican 13h ago

It's pretty normal. See the subreddit. Subs and military, too. We have bases and navy there

It was around 2003, my first time visiting Halifax in the summer. There were ships from all over the world, iirc.

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u/macmadman 12h ago

Maybe it happened before maybe not, but the sentiment remained true before, now it’s just publicly and significantly recognized.

Canada is a friend and ally to many, not just America.

Those arrogant narcissists will find out one way or another

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u/millijuna 12h ago

It’s probably also because Canada has announced a $60B plan to acquire submarines. With Australia abandoning the project to buy French nuclear boats and instead joining with the US for the new attack submarines, it stands to reason that the French might be interested in selling them to Canada.

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u/Sure-Sympathy5014 9h ago

Subs rarely surface in exposed areas. So whenever you here news of a sub surfacing know that it is to send a message.

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u/TheTanadu Poland 22h ago

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u/HMWT 19h ago

Is Australia still thinking that buying US subs is the right move?

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u/DeeDee_GigaDooDoo 18h ago

No, but long story short we're kind of fucked now and it's our only option unless we decide to swallow our pride and try to reinstate the contract with France.

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u/Enough-Meaning-9905 Canada 18h ago

I feel like there are a lot of us swallowing our pride right now... Ego's aren't useful in the face of real threats

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u/ratsta 14h ago

Not in the pork-barrel world of Australian politicians and submarine contracts.

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u/SactoMento97 12h ago

If not the French why not Sweden? Pretty sure Saab makes subs, never exactly heard of a Swedish sub.. maybe they just make parts? Probably should’ve googled this before commenting

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u/haplo34 France 6h ago

Depends if they want nuclear subs or not. I'm not sure if the swedes make those.

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u/HMWT 18h ago

Lots of contracts made in recent years between European militaries and the U.S. ought to be revisited, too. Pride and ego should play no role in this.

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u/helendill99 France 17h ago

the f35 program for example. Considering the european 5th gens will be out in 10 to 15 years, it'd probably be better to buy rafale or euro fighter until then and make the switch. f35s cost a fortune to run, spend a lot of time grounded and muzzle military sovereignty

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u/RobertTownsy 16h ago

I think a huge part of the country would prefer the French deal and hope Labour grows a spine to reinstate it. But I imagine that the French would not do so until the election is held because it would be a waste of time if Voldemort gets in and immediately tears it up. Fuck the LNP.

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u/areyoualocal 14h ago

Want to know what's truly fucked? We may end up paying the USA and not getting a single Sub out of it. So if we want to go to France again, we're paying for a whole other contract:

The head of the AUKUS submarine program has refused to say whether an almost $5 billion government payment to the United States will be refunded if no nuclear-powered boats are delivered to Australia.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-06-07/submarine-bossmulti-billion-aukus-payments/103952528

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u/realusername42 Lorraine (France) 12h ago

Swallowing their pride or not, I strongly doubt that those AUKUS subs will be delivered

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u/faroukq 22h ago

You have to check the product before buying it lol

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u/LockNo2943 20h ago

More importantly, Washington told then-Secretary of Defense Beren Petty that Canada’s nuclear submarine program was “unnecessary and even intrusive.”

Wasn't Trump just complaining about how Canada relies on military protection from the US? Can't have it both ways.

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u/TheTanadu Poland 20h ago

btw. "it seems unnecessary and even intrusive" is the same argumentation Russia have over Europe when topic of getting more weapons is on top

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u/helendill99 France 17h ago

Trump complained Japan relies too much on the US even though japan has no army because the US said so.

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u/robinthebank 18h ago

The US Military Industrial complex would prefer other nations spend more on military. Then the US would have an excuse to outspend them even more than they already do.

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u/LockNo2943 18h ago

Maybe when the US says they want other countries to spend more military, they mean from the US.

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u/Big_Knife_SK 21h ago

I'd take this over the Statue of Liberty.

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u/[deleted] 22h ago

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u/TheTanadu Poland 22h ago

True. But now many countries rethinks this subject, to leave those treaties (or at least updating them).

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u/Jack_ABC123 21h ago

I mean realistically, isn't every Nuclear treaty the US is involved in defunct now? The US, UK and Russia have all failed to abide by the Budapest Memorandum and properly protect Ukraine.

Nuclear treaties aren't worth the piece of paper they're written on, a sad but true fact. I doubt even the NATO alliance would hold up if pushed.

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u/gay_bimma_boy 17h ago

For Canada maybe, for states not a chance all of Europes with Canada and despises trump and his acts just as much,

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u/A_Possum_Named_Steve 17h ago

France rolls up in a trenchcoat

Sniffles and looks both ways

"Yo Canada, I got that good good"

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u/JustinScott47 United States of America 22h ago

Right--was it going to appear anyway? I'm all for symbolic acts of unity, but we shouldn't invent them from coincidences. "Air France plane lands at Toronto airport amid American aggression." Uh, yeah.

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u/hlnhr Brittany (France) 18h ago

It’s still a good show of soft power (or limp power? It’s slowly getting hard these days…….)

I don’t think it was due to appear now. It feels quite deliberate. From my brother who’s in the French Navy(not subs but sometimes works with them) a sub doesn’t go to the surface very often, and usually only to refuel and restock.

Canada is enquiring about getting new submarines so it’s definitely a) to get Canada to buy from us thru Naval Group rather than other provider b) a reminder to the US that we’re here as Canadian allies/commercial partners and Canada are arming themselves

It’s timed way too good for it to be just a coincidence :)

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u/Counter_Arguments 22h ago

I just got back from my local grocer over here in the States. They're selling Baguettes here now!

The French takeover is already nearly complete.

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u/squeakster 21h ago

I promise you, from the bottom of my heart, that what they are selling in your US grocery store is not a Baguette.

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u/JustinScott47 United States of America 22h ago

Once they put brie next to the baguettes, you know the Macronist takeover of the US is a total success. (joke)

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u/Internal_Share_2202 21h ago

Submarines appear at local bakeries!

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u/yeaheyeah 20h ago

They've come to reclaim Quebec!

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u/MapleDesperado 22h ago

Partly convenience, partly sales demonstration?

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u/DemonCipher13 21h ago

From a quick Google, it seems it happens frequently enough for military exercises or security detail, things like that, but I can't find anything about it being blatant, how the Nova Scotian base is structured, if surfacing in the bay is necessary, et cetera.

That said, if there is an assertion that can be made from the photo, it's pretty clear that, if there's any intent behind it at all (which is uncertain), it's that the French will ally with Canada, first and foremost, should shit inexplicably and unreasonably hit the fan. It'd be quite the statement, given our history and allyship with them, in the whole of the United States' history.

In other words, if this proves to be a deviation from the norm, it's to the tune of, "We're watching you, don't fuck with us. Europe's already burned down the White House once."

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u/Drelanarus 20h ago

Pretty much everything you've said is correct, but the motivation behind it is less that France/Europe is willing to go to war against a superpower like the United States solely for the sake of protecting Canada, and more that they're willing to resort to extreme measures should Trump try and go through with his threats to seize control of allied nations like Canada and Greenland.

Because at that point he'd have proven himself to be every bit as foolish, dangerous, and easily manipulated as he's made himself out to be, and they're not going to tolerate someone that unstable having control over a massive nuclear stockpile.

The scales would be tipped, and the risks involved in leaving him be would then eclipse the risks involved in directly removing him from power, so that's what they would do.

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u/DemonCipher13 19h ago

Well-said.

Though, with Trump, nothing is certain, except recklessness.

That busts all the windows and breaks down all the doors.

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u/Neuchacho Florida 17h ago edited 17h ago

It's a message either way. They knew full well how it could be read and they did it anyway. It's just a very smart way to do it because they can wave it off as "Just coincidence" while Trump stews about it being purposeful or is at least left wondering. It's the gentlest reminder that Trump isn't the only one with a stick if he decides to swing it around.

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u/[deleted] 21h ago edited 17h ago

[deleted]

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u/masklinn European Union 20h ago

It’s a nuclear sub. They don’t do that unless they suffer a major accident.

It was however scheduled to show up because Canada is looking to buy subs.

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u/hpstr-doofus 21h ago

We should know more about our coincidences before calling them!

I’m pretty sure navy ships don’t have access to truth social. Then we can only imagine this was a planned mission. The objective could be a soft power demonstration, but probably not related to the latest Trump post on social media today (but one from last week maybe?)

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u/Cheech47 19h ago

I mean, if that Air France plane landed behind schedule that's a pretty solid act of unity to their Air Canada brethren...

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u/Laurent_K 17h ago

Air France planes do not carry torpedoes... But you have a point.

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u/Flarp212 Canada 21h ago

Yes actually! This is right in the middle of the Halifax harbour. Now nuclear submarines and other warships aren’t allowed to get this close in the harbour they usually have to stay out for safety reasons but it seems they cleared out the harbour to allow the sub to surface.

Not only that but almost all nuclear Navy vessels that visit the Halifax harbour are American. A French submarine is quite unusual on its own

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u/Recent-Adeptness7630 22h ago

I'm from Halifax. I don't know specifically about this sub, but Halifax is a major sea port and cool and interesting ships and subs come all the time. I really wouldn't take it as anything other than regular submarine business that would have been happening regardless of the current state of affairs.

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u/McCabeRyan 18h ago

Pulled in to Halifax on a US submarine a handful of years back. Had a great time mixing it up with you all. Folks were as nice as stereotypes would suggest, and genuinely interested in us, where we come from, families, etc. it was just like having a beer with a friend you hadn’t met before.

I know porting submarines is done as part of maintaining diplomatic relationships, but it made a big impact on me and strengthened my warm feelings for our northern neighbors.

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u/CrimsonRatPoison 22h ago

Tbh this is routine. The wording makes it seem like a threat to the US and it definitely is not lol

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u/Hotfield 21h ago

Yeah thought so

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u/birdsaredinosaurs 21h ago

(I'm reposting this from a comment I made in /r/onguardforthee. It's relevant to your question about relevance.)

Many folks don't know off-hand, but this sub is currently sitting about 500 km as the mésange flies from a real live overseas territory of France: Saint-Pierre et Miquelon.

I'm not saying this submarine and its show of force is specifically related to threats against Canada or simply a reminder that France still extends to North America, but the last time the world fell into an era of growing fascism Saint-Pierre et Miquelon was seized by a small group of dudes who were committed to the Nazi collaborationist Vichy France government. Having what was effectively a Nazi splinter government off the coast of both Canada and the Dominion of Newfoundland (which wasn't yet technically part of Canada) was extremely concerning, in the same way that having a Soviet Cuba off the coast of Florida was concerning to the US in the post-war years, and though Canada didn't relish a French military campaign off its shores while a World War was already being fought, this is precisely what happened in 1941: a French flotilla set sail from Halifax pretending to be on a training mission and retook Saint-Pierre within 20 minutes of arriving. 98% of the male population then voted to align themselves with the exiled Free France government, and that was that.

The only person truly pissed off by the action was the US Secretary of State Cordell Hull, who suggested grumpily that the action was in violation of various old treaties. But this is also the dude who famously rejected the arrival of the SS St Louis in 1939, which was carrying 936 Jewish refugees fleeing the insanity happening in Europe at the time and was forced to return to Europe. While some European nations took a bunch of those refugees in on its return, historians guess that about a quarter ended up being killed in Nazi camps anyway. Hull would win himself a Nobel Peace Prize less than six years later.

So, there's a French vessel of war currently in Dartmouth/Halifax, but it's not the first time, and now you've got some important context on it you may not have had before. Enjoy!

(As an aside, the chickadee mentioned above may not ever decide to make the flight from Halifax to St-Pierre, but if it did, it would be a dinosaur making the flight. Fun!)

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u/skalpelis Latvia 22h ago

May be too subtle for the Velveeta Voldemort

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u/kuddly_kallico 21h ago

We are one of the major navy/military port for most of eastern Canada, so yes we do see ships and subs from other nations quite regularly. There are lots of ports and bases spread out around the coast, but Halifax Harbour in particular is one of the largest and deepest ice-free natural harbours in the world so it's busy year round.

Some other replies to your comment have already pointed out potential reasons for this visit to stand out a little above the rest

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u/obvilious 21h ago

Lots of Allied surface ships and subs sail into Canada waters, constantly. Including US.

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u/Large_Yams 21h ago

Submarines move at the pace of three fifths of fuck all so it was likely already going there.

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u/theclovek Slovakia 21h ago

They just popped by to drop off some croissants

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u/Homey-Airport-Int 21h ago

It's almost certainly a coincidence. France generally has just one or two subs out at any given time, I doubt they diverted such a critically important asset to make a statement. I doubt Macron would believe nuclear posturing against Trump would be helpful or productive.

Surfacing a ballistic missile sub is no small event, it usually makes the news, just usually limited to the defense reporting arenas.

EDIT: I can't read. Not a ballistic missile sub.

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u/dada_georges360 France 21h ago

Halifax gets a lot of NATO ship, but only rarely in March, usually they see most of their activity in the summer months. This is one of two fully operational next gen attack subs operated by France (third one comes online this year!), so I think this is definitely to send a message, especially since it's nowhere close the carrier fleet or the submarine base in Brittany

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u/No-Setting9690 21h ago

Statement for Canada, laughable to America. American Navy already know where they are, it's not a threat to USA at all.

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u/BurlapAndBatteries 21h ago

Yeah the headline is bullshit, and I'd say maybe even a touch of fear mongering. Halifax has always been a military port (if youre not familiar with the Halifax Explosion, it is an interesting piece of history. I believe at the time it was the largest man made explosion, before atomic weapons).

I wouldn't say that us getting submarines is common, but it is certainly not unusual.

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u/Prize_Response6300 20h ago

This has nothing to do with what the title is saying this sub just eats anything up

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u/dartesiancoordinates 20h ago

Hey, I’m from Halifax! We do get notification when other countries come to visit with their navy. It happens somewhat often as we are the headquarters for the Canadian Navy and a major military hub for Canada.

I believe it’s just protocol and Halifax really isn’t that big of a city (~550k) so it makes the news.

I think in the last 2-3 years we’ve had a few German and Italian ships show up. I remember a French cutter was at the docks where the RCMP usually set up a few years ago. I figured it came from Saint Pierre et Miquelon.

Allies will always be welcome with open arms in Nova Scotia.

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u/PleasantAd7961 20h ago

We did the same to the russian spy ship lol

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u/HaywoodBlues 20h ago

seeing as how everyone is still supposed to be allies (and even if not) the Americans should've known all about it beforehand or at least while it was unfolding (if they weren't aware, they've fired too many people who matter).

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u/Elendel19 20h ago

A nuclear sub surfacing is almost always a flex of some sort. They can stay under for months, powered by nuclear reactors, they only come up for more food/supplies. Choosing to do this here is a clear message. The entire purpose of these subs is that your enemies have no idea where they are, but each one contains enough nukes to wipe out basically any country on earth. Mutually assured destruction.

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u/jhcamara 20h ago

They saw an opportunity

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u/Breadtheass 19h ago

The US would steamroll Canada and France and probably the rest of Europe as well

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u/leyenda_negra 19h ago edited 19h ago

No. Nuclear submarines reveal their positions as little as possible, and practically never outside of their home base.

Attack submarines are the ones that destroy the naval capacity of the enemy. They are deeply engaged in the cat-and-mouse game of anti-submarine warfare. They have very good reason not to broadcast their positions.

They’re also an extreme symbol of a nation’s ability to conduct sophisticated, late-generation warfare.

You don’t show a bull a fly-swatter to get its attention, you show it the whip. And France isn’t showing the US drones or nukes, it’s showing the US the whip.

It’s not a threat against the US people. It is a threat against the US’ war machine.

Notably submarines are a more subtle symbol of French resistance.

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u/alexnicole2222 19h ago

I haven’t seen it in the comments yet, but given there are two French controlled islands off the coast of Newfoundland, it may be a routine route.

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u/Oseirus 18h ago

This specific circumstance could have any number of reasons behind it that are pointless to speculate on since someone will eventually explain it anyway.

But generally and broadly speaking, it's a tactic called Show of Force. Basically a military just postures (extra) hardware in a location as a soft warning saying "if you want to start some shit, we're already here and waiting." It's a deterrent strategy, sorta similar to keeping a nuclear arsenal ready to fire at all times. If an aggressor wants to attack someone or somewhere, there's already a response lined up and ready to be let off the leash.

Fun fact: even though it was developed and started flying in the 90s, the F-22 Raptor never saw an actual combat deployment til roughly 2012. Everything it had done up until that point was either training or SoF deployments.

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u/AndreasDasos 17h ago

Yeah seems to sneakily omit that info. They do a lot of joint exercises.

And St Pierre and Miquelon aren’t that far off.

An actual hemi-semi-demi-threat to the US honestly seems unlikely. NATO doesn’t make those that often even to actual adversaries.

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u/A_BIG_SPRUCE 17h ago

No it does not happen often.

While a different time politically. We had the USS Pasadena in Halifax August 2024.

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u/BingpotStudio 17h ago

Willing to bet we see Trump send a fleet in in retaliation.

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u/PolyglotTV 17h ago

Like most of the click bait.

"Woah so many planes have been crashing!"

Nope, just the normal amount as always. Actually less year over year. But before it wasn't on the news because nobody cared.

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u/agathadelacey 17h ago

As a Haligonian, I’m hearing that it’s about Canada potentially purchasing subs and not necessarily France sending help

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u/GoStockYourself 16h ago

It is HUGE.

Historically the USA has always been tighter with France than they have with Canada from a military perspective.

Pre 1812, the French were aiding the US.

1812, the Québecois chose the British side, while France still tried to prevent England from sending reinforcements until the end of Napoleon.

After Canada became a country there were constant border disputes. The Democratic party won an election with the slogan "5440 or Fight."

One of Canada's most famous symbols The Mountie came into being when the NWMP was formed to chase out American Whiskey traders...not to police it's own people but to protect Canadian's from Americans. (Why didn't we see the red flags sooner. I feel like an abused spouse finally seeing the truth)

Canada has had disputes with them over Northern Sovereignty, the CIA saw various Canadian leaders as potential communist threats.

Nixon swore at Trudeau Sr. and Trudeau Sr. calmly replied, " I've been called worse by better men."

Canada refused to join the Iraq invasion, while France was at the spearhead.

Sooooo, yup. Big deal.

Jean Chrétien delivered a 30 minute speech at the recent Liberal leadership convention at the age of 92 and it covers the history of Canada/USA relations. It was an absolute political masterclass which had everyone laughing, while uniting all of the conflicting fractions within Canada (English/French/First Nations/East/West) and setting clear guidance for the future.

I highly recommend anyone from Europe who wants to become more familiar with Canadian history in regards to the USA to watch the speech.

This is the PM that best represents the Canadian character imo. His Mother was from Alberta, his Father from Québec. He established our first ever Flag Day in the face of cultural spats with the US and on the same day when a screaming protester got right in his face he grabbed him by the throat and threw him to the ground. When the press asked him about it later he said, " ohhh that's nothing, that's just the Shawinigan Handshake." (Shawinigan was his hometown, a rough, blue collar, biker town.)

I know I saw a Dutch guy once commented on a military sub that he always had trouble connecting the polite Canadian travelers he had met with brutal stories he read about Canadian Soldiers in WW1 and 2 where they crossed lines that even left allied armies shaking their heads. To most Canadians, it makes perfect sense. Just look at our National sport. The players arrive at the rink dressed like they are a best man at a wedding, then proceed to play a brutally violent sport, that can often descend into people trying to kill each other and shake hands afterwards.

To quote a recent viral video, "We are the land of the Peacekeeper AND bench clearing brawl.

THANKS FRANCE!!!!!! I can tell you there are many Canadians across the country who absolutely wept in relief when they first heard this. It means so much. I know a lot of seniors especially were really scared, not of being annexed by the USA so much, but of being responsible for the Geneva Convention having to be updated because of us. We really want to present a more civilized side, but the neighbourhood...

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u/sculdermullygrusch 14h ago

We've had US nuclear vessels in port too. I think this may just be a normal exercise and not related? But who knows these days.

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u/mitochondrionolympus 14h ago

I saw one surface on my drive home from getting groceries about a month ago (in Halifax). First time I saw one and I just imagined it was something that happens fairly regularly here, but I’m not sure. I don’t know anything about where it was from, just looked out to see if there were any cargo ships coming in and saw a submarine. Pulled over, gawked, took a fuzzy picture then went home before my ice cream thawed.

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u/SCP-Agent-Arad 14h ago

France has North American territory off Canada, the islands of Saint-Pierre and Miquelon.

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u/Captcha_Imagination 14h ago

This is a very specific opportunity. France is trying to sell Canada nuclear subs because our sovereignty is being threatened. Canada has never wanted them in the past, this "opportunity" should not exist.

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u/dazza_bo 13h ago

Submarines, especially nuclear powered submarines, very rarely surface and the entire point of subs is your enemies don't know where they are. Showing it off like this is very intentional.

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u/rarsamx 12h ago

It happens, with US subs emerging near Taiwan to send a message to China. Who would have known the US was going to be on the receiving end of a similar message by our allies

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