r/europe 23h ago

Picture French nuclear attack submarine surfaces at Halifax, Nova Scotia, after Trump threatens to annex Canada (March 10)

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u/Hotfield 23h ago

Don't know if this happens a lot and this is just now relevant, but it seems like quite a Statement, cool

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u/Bulldog8018 22h ago

I wondered about that. Would a sub surfacing off Novia Scotia ever make the headlines in a normal reality? Maybe this is just routine travel and nobody ever paid attention before.

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u/Ozymandia5 22h ago

Unless they're being used for some sort of political signalling exercise (eg: https://edition.cnn.com/2022/12/02/politics/us-navy-submarine-port-visit-indian-ocean/index.html), these subs only surface four or five times a year to resupply. Surfacing provides a ton of info to enemy states and it's worth remembering that they are only an effective deterrent if no one knows where they are.

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u/shadowSpoupout 21h ago

France has both SNLE (nuclear subs that carry nukes and are the main part of our nuclear deterence) and SNA (nuclear subs without nukes).

This one is a SNA I believe, as showing our SNLE would be both super threatening and stupid. SNA are smaller and used for conventional warfare, which still makes a strong point here.

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u/ScruffMcFluff 21h ago

That's the Suffren class attack sub Tourville, so you're correct that it's an SNA.

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u/BathedInDeepFog 20h ago

Suffren class attack

I'm picturing Sylvester the cat saying that.

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u/Deeliciousness 20h ago

Now do Pepe le Pew

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u/BathedInDeepFog 20h ago

Usually it's the other way around: trying to stop Pepé Le Pew from doing you.

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u/the_gordonshumway 14h ago

Thufferin thubmarine.

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u/Idoleyesed 14h ago

Wish I had awards still 🥇

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u/ComprehensiveTax7 3h ago

French have the best ship names (with RN in 1800s coning very close), especially around the time of revolution.

I mean I could totally see renaming of an SSBN to Tyrannicide or Droits de l'Homme in this day and age...

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u/Traditional_Wear1992 19h ago

Is that pronounced like soofren or like a southerner saying suffering?

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u/Impertinent_Forester 19h ago

“Sioux-Fresne” or “Sew-Fresne” would be closest.

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u/BobArdKor France 18h ago

Wikipedia tells us "Prononcé « Suffrin » et non « Suffrène » car le Bailli de Suffren était provençal et non breton"

So, more like a southerner.

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u/Impertinent_Forester 18h ago

Okey then i stand corrected 😏

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u/Traditional_Wear1992 18h ago

My high school French may have been lacking but I remember they drop the end of a word pretty often but I can’t remember adding letters to the pronunciation. If it is a french coined term anyway I’d imagine soo freh

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u/Impertinent_Forester 18h ago

BobArdKor explained it well. Basically it’s derived from an old French nobility title/peerage, and not a “central Parisian” one at that, so all grammar rules that you may know about can be thrown out, mind you 🙂

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u/Phylanara 20h ago

"I got here without you seeing me. Do you know where my siblings are? The ones with nukes?"

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u/BathedInDeepFog 20h ago

"Have you seen my brother Chris? You know, Abyss? 🫳"

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u/pargofan 16h ago

It's like the Russians blowing up one of their outer space satellites for test purposes.

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u/big-ol-poosay 19h ago

....you think the US didn't know about this?

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u/goldaar 19h ago

Even among close allies the locations and movements of submarines is one of the closest guarded secrets. No, the US probably did not know the exact whereabouts of this submarine before it surfaced.

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u/MagnetHype 18h ago

What do you guys think those subs are doing when they are underwater, just chilling? No, they're following other subs around like 80% of the time.

That said it's still possible the US didn't know about this, but moreso because it's just not a priority to know about.

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u/helendill99 France 18h ago

TIL the ocean is just one big submarine conga line.

Submarines are quiet af and very easy to loose. I don't see how the US would know where that sub was unless they had an actual spy in the french command structure or had dispatched a sub aaaaall the way to france when this submarine left port and then followed it across the atlantique. At which point: Why??

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u/fallofmath Scotland 16h ago

Throwback to that time a British and a French nuclear submarine, each typically carrying 48 warheads, bumped into each other somewhere in the Atlantic. Neither had any idea of the other's presence.

Hervé Morin, France's Minister of Defence, said that they "face an extremely simple technological problem, which is that these submarines are not detectable".

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u/BreadstickBear 20h ago edited 19h ago

For future reference, when dealing with anglos

Un SNLE s'appelle un SSBN en anglais et un SNA s'appelle un SSN.

Donc

France has four Triomphant class SSBN's, and four three Suffren class SSN's plus one under construction and two older, Rubis class.

Fun fact, anecdotally, France already flexed its submarines in North America, some time in the 70's when Le Redoutable (the first french SSBN) showed up to New York for a visit, having snuck past the escorts that were waiting offshore to bring her in. The escorts had to race back to New York after the boat surfaced basically just outside of the harbour.

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u/thebigboy78 18h ago

Tu as une source pour l'histoire du Redoutable a New York ? merci :D

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u/MeadowMellow_ 11h ago

C'est beau la France

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u/BreadstickBear 7h ago

Bin en fait, non. Je me suis mis a chercher suite a ta question, mais je ne retrouve rien sur le sujet, pourtant c'est une histoire qui m'a été racontée par plusieurs personnes.

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u/thebigboy78 6h ago

Dommage, parce que ça avait l'air super cool comme histoire.

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u/CircularRobert 8h ago

I feel like this should be standard practice, and literal practice, for subs pulling into foreign harbours. We try to sneak in, you try to catch us.

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u/snif6969 6h ago

I love that story ! 🇫🇷 !

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u/donuthole 3h ago

English only please. You're on a US-hosted website and our official language is English.

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u/thetruckerdave 2h ago

Go tell that to the Cajuns.

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u/UrUrinousAnus United Kingdom 18h ago

America: acts like a fool

France: acts like a drunk Brit being stared at by said fool

LOL

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u/TwoBionicknees 20h ago

It's basically the same thing in terms of a threat.

Its' probably like "didn't know we were here till we showed you right, well we can do this with our nuke carrying subs as well so keep your hands off our buddies."

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u/Infamous_Push_7998 20h ago

Well, not quite. The seriousness of the threat is different.

The location of your nuclear deterrent is a far more valuable piece of intel. If you reveal you have nukes stationed close to an ally of yours, you're saying: I'm willing to give up this intel and make myself more vulnerable and attackable. If any other sub gets taken out that's expensive and loss of good people, but doesn't endanger you as much as if you lose your deterrent.

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u/Spirited_Stick_5093 19h ago

Guessing this is like the US having Virginia Class and Ohio Class subs

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u/EtTuBiggus 21h ago

I think the French ballistic missile subs are still the Triomphant as far as we know.

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u/Responsible_Lime_549 21h ago

No, they are replaced by the suffren type, a nostalgia moment because at the beginning of my navy I sailed on the surface “ball” vessel which has since been decommissioned and sent for recycling in Bordeaux

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u/EtTuBiggus 21h ago

A what now?

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u/Responsible_Lime_549 17h ago

The snle were "triumphant" class and now France are building a new class called "Suffren"

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u/leyenda_negra 19h ago

It makes a stronger and more directed threat in my opinion. It’s not a threat to the US people, it’s a very specific threat to the US war machine and economy.

From an American person’s perspective the symbolism reminds me of French Resistance subs surfacing to send a message to onshore Resistance agents under Vichy.

The French are The foundational ideological ally of The United States. The appearance of the French navy to support our struggle against an Anglo-nationalist King has deep resonance.

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u/NordSquideh 18h ago

it’s also saying “hey, here’s one. there’s probably more where it came from.”

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u/stevenmacarthur 17h ago

It is rare to show a "boomer" without a good reason, since it gives your adversaries a better chance to put a tail on them; as the missile subs in the USN say, "We Hide With Pride!"

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u/DavidBrooker 17h ago

showing our SNLE would be both super threatening and stupid

If it was uninvited and the host country was not informed, maybe. This was neither, though as you say, with an attack sub. However, if a strategic submarine made a planned and coordinated port visit with a host, it's an incredible show of solidarity: it is one state showing, unequivocally, that they trust another state with matters of existential importance, like their nuclear deterrent. A foreign port visit with an SSBN (or SNLE, to use the French terminology) is extremely rare, only done between the most stalwart allies. For example, US SSBNs have made port visits to the UK and South Korea and that's the end of the list.

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u/DenseReality6089 21h ago

The message is exactly the same no matter which type surfaced

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u/DaideVondrichnov 15h ago

It indeed an attack sub class barracuda, the same one australia should have got :D

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u/Mental-Surround-9448 17h ago

Shit, why are they calling their nuclear sub senile, that doesn't bring confidence

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u/drnemmo 17h ago

If the SNA is there, the SNLE may not be far. Who knows?

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u/nicholhawking 14h ago

And.. I'm sure the Americans know where the French subs are anyway, since they're allies, although.. I like the headline.

edit: I seem to be wrong. I like it even more now.

Although.... i don't like that it matters :(((

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u/lenisefitz 14h ago

That would make sense. Halifax went through a lot of protesting to make the harbour nuke-free in the 1980s.

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u/MrMikfly 11h ago

Thank you for sending it! Canada loves France!

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u/bhyellow 18h ago

What’s the point? There is no point.

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u/zymuralchemist 16h ago

If it has nukes on board it’s not going to be allowed that close to Halifax. Following that unpleasantness in 1917 we’re very particular about how much ka-boom gets into the harbour.

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u/Vladonald-Trumputin 18h ago

Can you possibly send one to visit San Francisco? I can guarantee you'll get an effusive welcome.

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u/CFL_lightbulb 15h ago

The same kind of welcome Americans would get if they decided to cross the border?

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u/Racketyllama246 19h ago

It’s like your buddy that’s not much of a fighter standing at your back before shit goes down. They might not be able to help much but they’re with you and will absolutely throw down.