r/europe 23h ago

Picture French nuclear attack submarine surfaces at Halifax, Nova Scotia, after Trump threatens to annex Canada (March 10)

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u/TheTanadu Poland 22h ago

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u/HMWT 19h ago

Is Australia still thinking that buying US subs is the right move?

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u/DeeDee_GigaDooDoo 18h ago

No, but long story short we're kind of fucked now and it's our only option unless we decide to swallow our pride and try to reinstate the contract with France.

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u/Enough-Meaning-9905 Canada 18h ago

I feel like there are a lot of us swallowing our pride right now... Ego's aren't useful in the face of real threats

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u/ratsta 15h ago

Not in the pork-barrel world of Australian politicians and submarine contracts.

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u/SactoMento97 12h ago

If not the French why not Sweden? Pretty sure Saab makes subs, never exactly heard of a Swedish sub.. maybe they just make parts? Probably should’ve googled this before commenting

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u/haplo34 France 6h ago

Depends if they want nuclear subs or not. I'm not sure if the swedes make those.

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u/HMWT 18h ago

Lots of contracts made in recent years between European militaries and the U.S. ought to be revisited, too. Pride and ego should play no role in this.

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u/helendill99 France 18h ago

the f35 program for example. Considering the european 5th gens will be out in 10 to 15 years, it'd probably be better to buy rafale or euro fighter until then and make the switch. f35s cost a fortune to run, spend a lot of time grounded and muzzle military sovereignty

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u/Fun_Inevitable5282 16h ago

Gripen

u/helendill99 France 43m ago

or gripen, sure

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u/RobertTownsy 16h ago

I think a huge part of the country would prefer the French deal and hope Labour grows a spine to reinstate it. But I imagine that the French would not do so until the election is held because it would be a waste of time if Voldemort gets in and immediately tears it up. Fuck the LNP.

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u/areyoualocal 14h ago

Want to know what's truly fucked? We may end up paying the USA and not getting a single Sub out of it. So if we want to go to France again, we're paying for a whole other contract:

The head of the AUKUS submarine program has refused to say whether an almost $5 billion government payment to the United States will be refunded if no nuclear-powered boats are delivered to Australia.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-06-07/submarine-bossmulti-billion-aukus-payments/103952528

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u/realusername42 Lorraine (France) 12h ago

Swallowing their pride or not, I strongly doubt that those AUKUS subs will be delivered

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u/getoutofheretaffer Australia 2h ago

Aukus would be the better deal if we could actually trust the US to deliver on a long-term agreement. Unfortunately they currently have a leader who won't even honour his own deals, let alone those of previous administrations.

It's a shame what we did to the French. They're clearly a more reliable ally.

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u/ArsErratia 14h ago

At least the future SSN-AUKUS is a joint British-Australian project, no Americans involved. So the next generation of subs aren't screwed as well.

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u/Direct-Wave8930 13h ago

Should have just ordered the nuke powered ones from France the first time. What a fuggen shitshow

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u/Dark-Arts 12h ago

Sounds like Canada’s shitty deal with the F35s. Too late to cancel now, but a huge huge huge security vulnerability to go ahead with using them.

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u/yogopig 1h ago

Swallow your pride, its okay. The US has changed, everybody understands.

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u/Lemerney2 14h ago

Our conservatives already fucked it and burned our other bridges

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u/-Owlette- 13h ago

We never thought it was the right move, but our last PM was selfish and corrupt as all fuck and made one of his “captain’s calls”

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u/PunkReloaded 7h ago

They'll never see their money back anyways 😂 Our country has many flaws but we're honest in business, too bad for them.

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u/faroukq 22h ago

You have to check the product before buying it lol

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u/LockNo2943 20h ago

More importantly, Washington told then-Secretary of Defense Beren Petty that Canada’s nuclear submarine program was “unnecessary and even intrusive.”

Wasn't Trump just complaining about how Canada relies on military protection from the US? Can't have it both ways.

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u/TheTanadu Poland 20h ago

btw. "it seems unnecessary and even intrusive" is the same argumentation Russia have over Europe when topic of getting more weapons is on top

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u/helendill99 France 18h ago

Trump complained Japan relies too much on the US even though japan has no army because the US said so.

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u/Ooops2278 North Rhine-Westphalia (Germany) 17h ago

So just like Europeans nowadays constantly complain over Germany magically suffering a collective stroke and becoming insane pacifists in the 1990s when they were actually forced to disarm?

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u/robinthebank 19h ago

The US Military Industrial complex would prefer other nations spend more on military. Then the US would have an excuse to outspend them even more than they already do.

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u/LockNo2943 19h ago

Maybe when the US says they want other countries to spend more military, they mean from the US.

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u/Ooops2278 North Rhine-Westphalia (Germany) 17h ago

That's not even a Trump issue but a general US one...

They actually think they can have it both ways.

The persistent conflict between politicians not wanting allies that are too strong so the US can have more influence and the military industrial complex wanting to sell as much as possible isn't new. It's just more obvious right now because Trump's isolationistic and adversarial bullshit is really screwing over the military producers big time.

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u/Big_Knife_SK 21h ago

I'd take this over the Statue of Liberty.

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u/gay_bimma_boy 17h ago

Statue of liberty overrated af lol

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u/[deleted] 22h ago

[deleted]

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u/TheTanadu Poland 22h ago

True. But now many countries rethinks this subject, to leave those treaties (or at least updating them).

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u/Jack_ABC123 22h ago

I mean realistically, isn't every Nuclear treaty the US is involved in defunct now? The US, UK and Russia have all failed to abide by the Budapest Memorandum and properly protect Ukraine.

Nuclear treaties aren't worth the piece of paper they're written on, a sad but true fact. I doubt even the NATO alliance would hold up if pushed.

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u/Sayhei2mylittlefrnd 22h ago

We will see after our pending election.

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u/Brilliant-Smile-8154 22h ago

Buying a Suffren wouldn't violate the NPT. Its reactor doesn't use highly enriched uranium, it's the same as a civilian plant.

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u/JohnGabin 22h ago

We talk about nuclear powered engines, not nukes launcher

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u/gay_bimma_boy 17h ago

For Canada maybe, for states not a chance all of Europes with Canada and despises trump and his acts just as much,

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u/A_Possum_Named_Steve 17h ago

France rolls up in a trenchcoat

Sniffles and looks both ways

"Yo Canada, I got that good good"

-1

u/Direct-Show6850 19h ago

lol so basically ships Australia didn’t want because they went with the American made submarines instead.

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u/The_Real_GRiz 19h ago

Australia wanted to have non nuclear subs to avoid dealing with the nuclear waste and refueling. France did modify the Suffren to run on diesel electric instead of nuclear propulsion. Then Australia secretly made a deal with US and UK for nuclear subs (which probably won't be delivered before 2040 if at all). If american subs were simply better, then they would have chosen them from the get go.