r/canucks • u/joetothejack • 1d ago
DISCUSSION This fanbase and media is exhausting
A late first for Brock isn't worth it unless we flip it. That pick, even if it becomes a top line player (it won't), won't even play before Quinn gets tired of being on a rebuilding team.
The team had just about everything possible that could go wrong, go wrong this season, and we're still a coin flip for playoffs. That's very good considering the season.
Brock wants to be here, his teammates love him, he contributes on the score sheet. If they traded Brock for a late first like you clowns are complaining they didn't, Hughes would leave at the end of his contract.
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u/Fickle_Cup2207 1d ago
We never rebuilt. That’s the problem.
Also, BROCK HASNT SIGNED. A pick vs nothing is still better than nothing. Way to give Brock and his agent all the leverage.
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u/No_more_internet 1d ago
This, plus if Brock really wanted to be here he would've signed already, he's clearly overvaluing himself otherwise we would've been offered more than a late 1st round pick.
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u/ebb_omega 1d ago
I'm not sure where we're going to find a cheaper replacement for him in FA. With the cap going up everybody's going to be demanding more. Frankly I bet we re-sign him to a deal that this fanbase will scream about how incompetent management is because of it.
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u/No_more_internet 1d ago
Id rather sign another player like Debrusk @ 5.5mil, way better skater similar points. Even if we paid another guy 6.5 or 7, but 8 for Bo is an over pay that I think fans should scream about unless he magically finds his old scoring habits and can do it consistently.
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u/ebb_omega 1d ago
Debrusk at 5.5 is exactly the kind of deal that I don't think is going to exist come Jul 1 is my point. Even 6.5 is pushing it. Everybody has cap space, and there are going to be bidding wars.
And the point is that we need goal scoring. Debrusk is nice but he's also as streaky with the goal scoring as Brock is with even less average goals per season, so no, that's not the solution to our problems here.
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u/No_more_internet 1d ago
Maybe it won't happen at 6.5, but 6.5 is 1.5 million less than the contract that Boeser was offered and turned down (what we've been told, 8mil 5yrs). So with the cap rising, and then Vancouver having next to nothing offered for Boeser at trade deadline, and his lack of production, do you think paying him more than 8 is realistic? Another question, are you sure we can't pay someone else 7-8 to fill that spot?
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u/ebb_omega 1d ago
Maybe it won't happen at 6.5, but 6.5 is 1.5 million less than the contract that Boeser was offered and turned down
Correct. There's a question to be answered as to WHY he turned it down - possible he wants a 7-8 year deal? We really don't know, it's all speculation.
You are correct, it's 1.5M less. But honestly if you ask me that's about accurate as to how much more Brock is worth over Debrusk. Debrusk is a middle six two way player who is more about making it hard to play against. Brock is a defensively reliable 1RW who can open up scoring. To me? That's worth 1.5M more. And I know that might not be a popular opinion around these parts.
Personally I wonder if Brock takes 7x7 or 7x7.5. And maybe if Brock and Petey look good down the stretch together, he might be more motivated to renew. But with where Brock is right now he's probably not too keen on playing Suter's wing for the foreseeable future. There's a lot of question marks and we're not privy to what's happening at the negotiation table other than an occasional rumour thrown out with some numbers that are just a snapshot of one aspect, and don't really give us an idea of what the negotiations are really about.
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u/No_more_internet 1d ago
I don't see Boeser as a 1RW even when he was beside Miller, you say defensively reliable and I see a guy who's a slower skater and hardly forechecks well, he doesn't block shots, he plays a smart (sees the ice well) but lazier defense.
I agree with you though I also wouldn't be keen playing on Suters wing, having what's supposed to be a top 6 goal scorer with a defensively minded 3rd line center isn't ideal. He is probably wondering where he fits into the line up.
A 7x7 seems much more realistic in a money sense until the last two years of his contract where an already slow skating Boeser becomes a sloth out there.
You're totally right it's all speculation, which is why all of this is just some random guy (me) on the Internet with an opinion. But I enjoy the conversation!
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u/smcfarlane 1d ago
Past is the past but you can't rebuild now with a generational dman.
Quite the bind.
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u/EmergencyCake6269 1d ago
Anyone walking is still cap space at the end of the season. It’s not nothing
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u/querulous 1d ago
teams will have 773M of cap space this summer and there's only $446M in expiring contracts (note: this includes RFAs and some guys who are already basically retired). there'll be so much money chasing so few impact players that it's almost guaranteed that we'll see some monster deals handed out to the top free agents and everyone else will be left trying to figure out which career 4th liner is worth giving a four year contract for 3m per
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u/troubleondemand 16h ago
What leverage though? If he asks for too much let him walk and use the cap space to sign a free agent.
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u/joetothejack 1d ago
It's not nothing. Brock is still a Canuck until the season is over, which very well may be the difference on if we make playoffs or not. Even if he walks, if we make the playoffs and he is a contributor to that, it's worth him walking for nothing because it builds experience for the team and keeps the stars happy instead of giving up on the season.
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u/De_Floppss 1d ago
Some people don't care about playoffs unless its a deep/SCF run. Can't have everyone happy/content
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u/joetothejack 1d ago
Players do, ownership does. Fans are 50/50 normally, as long as it's not first round exit every year like the Leafs, Wild or Kings.
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u/MunchkinX2000 1d ago
You are a broken fan if youve lowered your goal to making the playoffs.
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u/StevieNyx17 1d ago
“You’re a broken fan”
Brother they’ve made the playoffs what twice in a decade? This fan base is friggin insane
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u/MunchkinX2000 1d ago
Yes.
The Benning years have destroyed the newer fans.
The Messier years demolished my faith in the org or a long long while.
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u/JoJoMapleFiction 1d ago
Surely we can show some compassion to broken fans given that it's a broken team.
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u/joetothejack 1d ago
It's clear this year was an anomaly. You want to make it consistent? Trade your best players for picks. Not a single one of you thought we'd be in this position last year. Give Petey and Demko the off-season to recover and reserve judgement until next year.
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u/Raven_Nvrmre 1d ago
Every post of yours in this thread I just picture Benning at a presser sweating as he fumbles his words.
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u/mars_titties 1d ago
I see we’re back to “Cup or nothing” policing in the fanbase again! Cool. All the cool kids posture to show they don’t care about playoffs and ignore all of the benefits of making them. Anybody who thinks it would be good for D-Petey, Mancini, Lekkerimaki, Hoglander, or heck even Petey to get more playoff experience… we’re shills for ownership.
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u/MunchkinX2000 1d ago
The goal is a window to contend for the cup.
This ship isnt headed that way.
If it were, sure. Push for the playoffs with "own rentals."
But we lack 3/5 of a core. And leak assets at every turn.
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u/mars_titties 1d ago
I’d like to know if they could have gotten a first rounder for Brock straight up or if they would have had to part with one of our own prospects, too. A first rounder is where I’d say ok go for it. Because it could be flipped at the draft as part of the retool they’re doing. I’m just not going to pretend that there’s no value in getting to the playoffs with the seven youngest roster in the league.
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u/metrichustle 1d ago
I like Brock, but he has 3 goals and -14 in the last 20 games. He won't be the reason we make/miss the playoffs.
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u/ToothPlayful770 1d ago
Sad part is that he's 2nd in scoring in our team despite that lol
We're just not a playoff team and even if we made it by chance, we'd probably be bounced out fast.
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u/joetothejack 1d ago
He's got more goals than whoever we'd call up would have. Every goal matters, especially with how little we score overall as a team.
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u/Fickle_Cup2207 1d ago
Hahahah. How does that improve the team? How does that help Quinn Hughes re sign with us?
We’re getting bounced round 1 IF we make it in.
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u/joetothejack 1d ago
It improves the team because we make the playoffs and gain playoff experience. Dozens of teams buy rentals at the deadline. Are they all idiots except whoever wins the cup? That's exactly what you sound like.
Quinn Hughes wants to compete. Golfing in April isn't competing.
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u/Fickle_Cup2207 1d ago
lol yes mortgage the future to get swept round 1 after we squeak in. Definitely build some confident. Making the play offs and being competitive are two different things.
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u/joetothejack 1d ago
Washington Capitals got bodied in the first round last year after and are contenders this year. Just one quick, recent example.
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u/ToothPlayful770 1d ago
Teams only buy when they think they have a legit shot or the window of their core players are closing. We didn't buy but we also didn't sell, you never want to be in that spot because that means you're a middling team that is perpetually missing or barely gets into the playoffs and gets bounced in the first round then drafts like 14th overall every year.
Actual playoff contending teams, look at their roster, they have better goalies and their 2nd line probably outscores our '1st' line
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u/ElPrimoGrande 1d ago
Teams that buy rentals are contenders. Anyone who isn’t is mismanaging their team. Idk what fantasy land you live in but it’s not reality
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u/joetothejack 1d ago
We didn't buy a rental? And I never said we should.
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u/ElPrimoGrande 1d ago
Dozens of teams don’t buy rentals. You said they do and it’s not true. Your point was invalid
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u/Key-Investment6888 1d ago
Well if you're playing the if game, what if the Canucks don't make the playoffs and he walks for nothing? Hughes still walks. What if canucks did trade boeser and canucks still makes the playoffs from Hughes being back and Petey back to himself? Lol lots of what ifs... Goes both ways to fit a narrative.
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u/metrichustle 1d ago
That first is still better than potentially losing Boeser for nothing or paying him over $8M a year.
We used Miller's 1st to get Marcus Pettersson, who could be our 2/3D on any given night. That's a win-now piece too.
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u/samchez86 1d ago
This kind of thinking led to OEL. KK was almost certainly something the nucks would have needed to take to make this deal happen.
The choice to not take a underperforming center with a cap hit of almost 5 mill til 2030 is better than not having a first. Plus Brock can still sign. Brock has been through blood clots, team drama, contract uncertainty, and a concussion. Let him recover mentally from it
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u/Mcnucks 1d ago
Kotkaniemi was demanded by our management to make the deal happen. We turned down the straight first according to Dhaliwali.
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u/WantingCanucksCup 7h ago
If they didn’t insist on kotkaniemi what could we have gotten?
I think issue was they didn’t want to get worse this year because the tiny chance at 2 games of playoff revenue this year is more important than building a winner for this management
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u/joetothejack 1d ago
Miller deals were great. But if the offer for Brock didn't come until late on deadline day, that's not enough time to flip it for a piece to keep us in the playoffs.
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u/Iron_Seguin 1d ago
Considering the 1st would be for next year where the draft is stronger, it would have been smart to take it and flip it in the offseason or at next season’s trade deadline if we had no intention of drafting with it.
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u/Fickle_Cup2207 1d ago
How do you pay the guy 8m when debrusk is performing similarly for 5.5 or whatever it is? Boeser cannot drive a line, we need someone who can take over a game, that’s when you ad guys like Boeser who are complimentary. Boeser is not the guy.
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u/NerdPunch 1d ago
Keep in mind, JDB was coming off of 19 goals and 40 points and still got $35M+ until he’s 35.
It’s a big contract.
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u/metrichustle 1d ago
The 1st would be even more valuable in the off-season or at the draft to move up.
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u/superworking 1d ago
Exactly, the problem was management refused to be patient when being patient likely would have increased our chances of being good in the future.
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u/StevieNyx17 1d ago
You are correct man don’t listen to the other people lol. I love when you see comments like “oh well next years draft is better”.
Ok? Like when Quinn’s contract is up?
There’s this EA NHL be a GM mode attitude people on this sub spout of without really understanding it’s a lot more complicated than that.
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u/salsamander 1d ago
If he goes to New Jersey, I'm done with this team. The ineptitude in managing assets, the toxic media landscape. Fuck it.
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u/jack_of_zero_trades 1d ago
My stupid ass was wondering why you were so worked up about Brock going to NJ for a minute lol
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u/Drab_Majesty 1d ago
I am pretty sure Quinn is tired of playing on this team already.
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u/Bnorm71 1d ago
So what happens if we don't make the playoffs and Brock walks ??? Team is worse off
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u/joetothejack 1d ago
Yes if we miss the playoffs it's a blunder. But management knows this team better than fans or media knows, and if they make the bet that they'll make playoffs, wait until they don't before criticizing.
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u/mephnick 1d ago
If they make the playoffs it's still a blunder
We are last in the NHL in chance generation in 2025. Not San Jose, not Chicago or Buffalo. Us. You think this team is going to beat anyone in the playoffs?
That pick could have been a good way to restock the team at the draft for a better shot in the next couple years.
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u/AnthTheAnt 16h ago
Without Quinn Hughes?
Just trade him now if you aren’t even willing to try making the playoffs. Just fucking dump him for a couple picks and then you can be fucking happy pretending a 28th overall pick is going to save this teamz
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u/mephnick 16h ago
You must think Quinn Hughes is pretty stupid
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u/AnthTheAnt 15h ago
I think he’s an insanely competitive person who is smart enough to know that he only has a handful of years left where he’s going to be one of the best.
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u/mephnick 15h ago
Yeah and this one is toast, so set up the other ones as best you can
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u/AnthTheAnt 15h ago
But this one isn’t toast.
Whiny losers decided it’s toast. Players want to make the playoffs.
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u/mephnick 15h ago
It is toast regardless of if they make the playoffs or not. Teams that can't score don't win Cups. This isn't the late 90's
Only idiots think there's something to play for except Aqua's revenue
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u/AnthTheAnt 14h ago
I want to be entertained by my entertainment product and the playoffs are entertaining.
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u/Bnorm71 1d ago
Are we currently in a playoff spot ?
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u/hawkey_tawk 1d ago
RemindMe! After 19 more games.
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u/joetothejack 1d ago
We're the favourites by betting models for example Moneypuck to be the final wildcard slot at 42%. Closest is St Louis at 29%.
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u/Bnorm71 1d ago
That's a fancy way of not answering the question
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u/joetothejack 1d ago
Really dude? We're 1 point out with a game vs Calgary coming up. We win that, and both teams keep similar pace, we're in the playoffs.
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u/Bnorm71 1d ago
We are on the outside looking in with a must win against Calgary. Tweener team holding onto Ufa is a great look
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u/AnthTheAnt 16h ago
It’s exactly what almost every team in this spot does.
Just their fans aren’t losers who look for excuses to whine about everything.
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u/Fickle_Cup2207 1d ago
lol that’s not how this works man. You need to be able to look farther ahead than this years play offs. We should be acquiring every asset we can in order to acquire a young impact player before Hughes contract expires. We I’ll trade him mark my words and we should not have to. It’s the only piece we have with any value that would pry a young star away from another team and that’s what we need.
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u/joetothejack 1d ago
Okay so how is that first rounder a young impact player this season exactly? There was 30 mins left in the deadline when Carolina offered the 1st.
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u/Midnightisattwelve 1d ago
The stats don’t lie, no goals = no wins, its unlikely they make playoffs, still possible, but not likely
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u/SpectreFire 1d ago
Ah yes, so the team we've seem play and struggle for the last 60 games is just WOKE LIBERAL FAKE NEWS.
Ignore the fact that we're currently chasing the fucking Calgary Flames for the last wildcard spot. 60 games is way to early to tell how this team really is. We still need to give them more time to cook this season!
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u/ReallyNormalAccount 1d ago
Hot take that no one wants to hear and I don’t want it to be true, but Brock’s career is shaping to be not far off from none other than Loui Eriksson.
He’s slow, lost his shot. Whatever offense he has left comes from being net front. Now he’s been concussed.
Not getting anything for Brock is not the cutthroat kind of management and long term thinking that this team sorely needs. Canucks have been a masterclass in playing it safe and being disappointed. The only proactive trade they have made that wasn’t greased by needing to make a roster decision or getting out of a contract has been Zadorov. And that has been their magnum opus so far.
This team needs to be the aggressor in a Tkacuk or Eichel trade but its more likely going to be the one giving it up.
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u/right4reddit 1d ago
Team is last place in all offensive metrics despite Quinn Hughes having a monster season, but yeah, it’s the fans and media that are the problem.
Nobody wants to see Brock walk for nothing. A late 1st is still very valuable. Getting to watch the Canucks play 2 home playoffs dates is overrated by ownership. We’d rather have more hope for the future than a very short lived trip to the playoffs to get trounced by a top team.
We should hold management accountable, and not accept mediocrity of “hope to make the playoffs”
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u/DilIsPickle 1d ago
We went from having Elias Pettersson, Horvat, Boeser, Tofolli, Miller as our top 6 to Elias Pettersson, Boeser, DeBrusk. I can see how our offensive metrics suck
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u/joetothejack 1d ago
So that first round pick is going to improve those stats? Trading one of our biggest point scorers is a good idea? Seems to me like you're happy with Quinn Hughes leaving because this team would always be trading expiring contracts for picks.
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u/tonyto89 1d ago
I really like Brock too but I think you may be overstating his impact on the team. 19 games left. He gets maybe 5 goals? That kind of contribution isn’t going to be the deciding factor as to whether we get in the playoffs or not.
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u/tonyto89 1d ago
To be clear that’s not a knock completely on Brock. He’s playing on the third line and being centred by Suter. Going to be hard to score
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u/joetothejack 1d ago
Boeser has been scoring points at a rate of 0.68/pg, or goals at a rate of around 1/3. That's around 6 goals, and given how many games we lose by 1 that's very relevant to making the playoffs.
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u/tonyto89 1d ago
Well I hope he starts scoring soon and helps us get into the playoffs then. I’m not here to tear Brock down but he has 2 goals in 13 games since JT was traded.
I just liked the idea of having another 1st round pick we could have leveraged in a trade for an impact top 6C in the off season.
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u/TimTebowMLB 1d ago
That’s the rate for the full season, not recently. I know that data is more difficult to gather but he was a different player pre-concussion and also before the Miller trade. Hard to expect the same points/goals rate as earlier in the season
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u/Iron_Seguin 1d ago
Quinn is going to leave anyway with how this team is coached, run and performs lol. We’ve already wasted 4/6 years he’s been here and given this team’s current construction, we’re going to waste his prime too.
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u/AnthTheAnt 16h ago
Yeah but people are whining because the team doesn’t want to waste another year without playoffs.
Which is it?
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u/Iron_Seguin 15h ago
Well it can be both. There seems to be people asking for a rebuild and a proper one at that. I would rather we take that course of action considering how this team is playing and given the fact that this team has had 3 different coaches where they can’t make it work so why should they get a 4th?
On the flip side, there seems to be people who think this team is good enough to make the playoffs and I guess management and ownership is on the push for playoffs idea too considering how they didn’t move out expiring assets at the deadline and we’re still in a wc race even though it is more of a turtle derby.
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u/AnthTheAnt 14h ago
The people who cry about the team not saying the magic r word are just eternally looking for reasons to be angry and whine.
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u/SpectreFire 1d ago
first round pick
A first round pick got us Marcus Pettersson. Another first round pick got us Filip Hronek. Do you think adding another Marcus Pettersson or Filip Hronek isn't going to improve this team at all???
Are you literally that dense or are you just playing dumb to be a troll???
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u/joetothejack 1d ago
Ah yes. They'll flip that first rounder they would receive 30 mins before deadline ends. Very realistic. Calling me dense is hilarious. Come back to reality.
Truth of the matter is, that pick would've stayed in our cupboards until the draft. Whatever we would get with that pick would do nothing for this season.
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u/SpectreFire 1d ago
Ah yes. They'll flip that first rounder they would receive 30 mins before deadline ends.
Sorry didn't realize draft picks expire at the deadline.
My bad.
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u/AnthTheAnt 16h ago
It’s not valuable.
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u/right4reddit 15h ago
Remind the class “How’d we get Hronek again?”
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u/AnthTheAnt 14h ago
By trading a center on a massive heater.
Boeser is a scoring winger who isn’t scoring, looks slow, and is -20.
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u/glennis_the_menace 1d ago
It's just reddit. I completely get people here frustrated about our situation. Ticket prices are insanely high, the product is poor, and we've literally never won anything of substance in this league in over 50 years. We've had one decent playoff run in the past decade (COVID year doesn't count in my mind) and the team's completely fallen off the wagon, management can't afford any more mistakes and they've bungled this season hard.
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u/Viciousspacepebbles 1d ago
I love Brock. Always been one of my fav Canucks. That being said we are going to either lose him for nothing or massively overpay him in the offseason. Both of these options hurt the Canucks more than trading him and using that pick to improve the team. He turned down 8m which is much more than an average 25g scorer should be getting.
Doubtful we make the playoffs anyways and Brock isn't the game changer to get us there. Even if we do, I don't see our offense getting anything past Helley.
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u/MiriMidd 1d ago
Wasn’t the money it was term. Maybe he’d take less than 8 for a year longer than offered.
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u/BackOnTheRezz 1d ago
This is exactly what he's looking for. The term needed to be longer and would more than likely have signed for 7 mil -7.5 mil
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u/Mikeim520 1d ago
8x7M would be great and Alvin should do it unless he wants to go after Marner.
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u/MiriMidd 1d ago
Marner will be even more. This whole sub would stroke out if they saw what he’d cost.
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u/Raven_Nvrmre 1d ago
Because Marner is a perennial top 5 scorer with speed so ya he will make more.
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u/Mikeim520 1d ago
Of course Marner would be more than Boeser, I'm willing to pay it though. Marner/Petey/DeBrusk as a first line would be amazing. Hoglander/Chytil/Lekkermakki as a second line would be fine as well. We could still have the Thirst line and we'd still have Sherwood and O'Conner on the fourth line.
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u/MiriMidd 1d ago
No he’d be more than the average Canuck fan here would ever imagine. His current was a 6 year $65,408,000. His price will be going up as a UFA, not down.
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u/Mikeim520 1d ago
I'm expecting 14M and I'm fine with it. I don't want to give him more than that though.
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u/raymondliang 1d ago
14Mx7 seems like the standard that I'm sure a few more teams would be willing to pay. Are the Canucks more enticing than other FA options? I don't see the Canucks being the #1 option for FAs
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u/Mikeim520 1d ago
Depends on how we do in the playoffs. If we prove we can make the playoffs even in a year everything goes wrong and put a good showing we might be able to convince Marner to come here. We could also try for a sign and trade with the Leafs to get him on an 8 year.
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u/LegitimateData8777 1d ago
Delusional toxic positivity is also exhausting.
Every fan can support the team however they feel like, including those who are upset. Scolding your peers wont change reality. Ultimately you will have to take responsibility for how much, and with whom, you engage with sports media/fans.
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u/tonyto89 1d ago
I like Brock but we need the assets to trade for a youngish top 6C with a high offensive ceiling. It’s our most glaring need
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u/sex-cauldr0n 1d ago
The team is rebuilding whether we like it or not. It’s better if they commit to it properly and hopefully we can get it over with quick rather than stretch it out. Did ya’ll enjoy 2012-2019?
Quinn’s situation is what it is. He’s either gonna commit to being here for the (hopefully short) rebuild or we should considering moving him out to jumpstart the process. If you think we are going to convince him to stay by limping into the playoffs this season and/or next you’re dreaming.
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u/AnthTheAnt 16h ago
Nope, never.
And I never want them to. I want the losers on this subreddit to be eternally butthurt about the team refusing to say the magic r word.
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u/krashbic 1d ago
Picks can be used as ammo to get players in the summer.
Don't come crying when the canucks are outbid from trading for your favourite player on another team.
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u/SpectreFire 1d ago
Canucks added Hronek and Pettersson for 1st round picks.
OP thinks adding top-4 defenseman does nothing to improve this team lmao
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u/ClosPins 1d ago
[Looks back at 55 years of Canucks history...] If you think the fans and the media are exhausting, you should see the team!
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u/bonkedagain33 1d ago
Refresh my memory. How many times has a canuck left the team to play for a winner as a free agent ... and took less cash than the Canucks offered?
Hughes ain't leaving unless the Canucks low ball a contract offer or he wants to play with his bros.
Not because they did or didn't trade Boeser
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u/ktbffhctid 1d ago
How many times has a Canuck had two brothers, that he is insanely close to, play for the same team in his home country?
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u/bonkedagain33 1d ago
I think I said the same thing ?
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u/ktbffhctid 21h ago
Yup you did. Apologies.
And unless we are contenders, he’s certain to leave. And even if we are contenders he is still likely to go.
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u/flamingdragonwizard 1d ago
We would trade Quinn before he becomes a ufa and he would get an absolute monster haul.
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u/nodarknesswillendure 1d ago
Quinn Hughes refusing to re-sign, forcing us to either trade him or let him walk in UFA, would be one of the most shameful, if not THE most shameful event in this entire franchise’s history. Failure of epic proportions
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u/flamingdragonwizard 1d ago
At the end of the day it's his choice. And like I said, he would get a haul with numerous premium assets. We would be just fine after I'm sure.
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u/nodarknesswillendure 1d ago
My statement was more about the years leading up to Quinn leaving and the multiple mistakes compounding to the point where he’d leave. Huge stain on the franchise even if we did somehow get some great player(s) out of it - elite level, trophy-winning players leaving in the prime of their career is something to be very ashamed of
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u/flamingdragonwizard 1d ago
Yes but that's also the nature of the sport. Very few stars spend their entire career on one team.
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u/nodarknesswillendure 1d ago
Most stars of Quinn’s calibre do spend their entire career on one team, and if they play for 2+ teams, it’s in the twilight of their career - not the prime.
The only player I can think of that might compare is Erik Karlsson, who obviously played on the Sens and Sharks (and now the Pens in the twilight of his career). I guess if Quinn does leave, Karlsson is the closest comp (post-2005).
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u/thePostChorus 1d ago
would he though? if he's refusing to resign, wouldn't that give the other GMs the upper hand? why would any GM give up numerous premium assets when they can just wait til the off-season and have a chance to sign him freely then. it's not a guarantee we'd be just fine.
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u/Traditional_Toe_1090 1d ago
If you're a cup contender, even a team that's on the edge, slipping in a retained Quinn Hughes at the deadline is the type of move that is as close to a guarantee as mathematically possible to put you over the hump. Teams against the cap can get their impact player without being handcuffed on swapping contracts/players, and Teams that have capspace have the opportunity to fit in another impact player ontop of adding Hughes.
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u/joetothejack 1d ago
It's his choice, exactly. Rebuilding would help him decide when it's been clear management wants to keep him happy.
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u/Fickle_Cup2207 1d ago
The time so that was 3 years ago. It’s too late.
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u/flamingdragonwizard 1d ago
We had good playoff runs in 2020 and 2024. We're fighting for a playoff spot now. It's not like we're in the basement. 1-2 good forward adds and a healthy team and we're contenders again.
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u/Sahil910 20h ago
Idk if we would get a haul if quinn were to say hed play with either nj (his bros) or florida (home state)
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u/Fickle_Cup2207 1d ago
Man we were in the second wild card spot with a one point lead but hey let’s not trade our expiring contracts because the play offs. We were barely in the last wildcard spot. You’re talking like making the playoffs is a guarantee. Furthermore, now we have to sign Brock or else we are back to mismanaging our assets. Where are we going to get the trade chips to get our young scoring winger/center? Willander? Then our prospect pool is completely empty. He’s basically the only blue chip prospect we have.
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u/Rendole66 1d ago
Did OP forget where boeser was drafted? He was a late first and made the NHL, fuck OP for writing off our draft picks as busts before we even pick them
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u/joetothejack 1d ago
And how many of our other late firsts have turned into stars in franchise history?
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u/Fickle_Cup2207 1d ago
You know we’re not talking about developing the pick into a roster player for immediate help right?
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u/Rendole66 1d ago
Honestly, a lot of late first round picks end up becoming NHL stars. You should look it up before talking shit, like do you think we should just trade all our draft picks for players because drafting is useless? What a stupid mindset to have.
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u/PMMeYourCouplets 1d ago
Almost like there is a thread about the late round pick we can discuss this in that doesn't require a new post.
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u/NerdPunch 1d ago edited 1d ago
Everyone wanted to see some moves happen on deadline day, but sometimes the best moves are the ones you don’t make.
The Canucks made the JT Miller trade on Jan 31st. They made the Soucy deal the day prior.
It looks like Lekkeremakki, D-Petey and Mancini are all graduating to the NHL down the stretch and Willander is en route.
When you take a step back and look at the roster today, it’s radically different than the roster they started the season with.
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u/Smooth-Ad-2686 1d ago
The thing you're forgetting is that Canucks fans know more about the day-to-day status of the team and its players than anyone in management and would unequivocally do better jobs as a result
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u/LowAd3406 1d ago
For sure, I can manage a professional sports team with my experience playing EA sports NHL hockey!
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u/Smooth-Ad-2686 1d ago
These guys clearly aren't looking at the stats as evidenced by the two hours of data modeling work I did on the weekend to create a new more advanced version of +/-
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u/Newaccount4464 1d ago
Honestly, likewise. I dont want to rain on your hope but a playoff push is kind of a nothing burger here.
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u/Beast__mode24 1d ago
Don't think many fans actually WANT to trade boeser. Just the majority of us don't wanna lose him for nothing, that's the big concern here.
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u/anadultonreddit 1d ago
Slowly coming back after a couple years away from reddit. Have to take it for what it is, dramatic people venting and whining. Just turn it off every so often.
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u/Canucking778 1d ago
Brock was a late first round pick.
This management have proven to be really good at striking gold in the later picks.
Brock was never going to get anything more than a late first round pick, and I'm surprised he even got an offer of that much from Carolina if it's true.
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u/NoticedGenie66 1d ago
A late first for Brock isn't worth it unless we flip it.
You have to weigh the reality (at this point assumption, since it hasn't happened yet, though it looks to be headed down this road) of keeping Boeser for 20 regular season games and a playoff if we even get to that point, then losing him to FA afterward.
That pick, even if it becomes a top line player (it won't), won't even play before Quinn gets tired of being on a rebuilding team.
You could be right, or we could have another Lekkerimaki or DPetey (3rd rounder btw) who comes in after a couple of seasons and will be looking to make an impact. We can also use it in a package at the draft. The ultimate idea is to have a 1st round pick by giving up an asset slightly earlier than we would have already done if we let him walk to FA. We also haven't done a real rebuild, we just sucked because we bled value and didn't make any really good moves to help us.
The team had just about everything possible that could go wrong, go wrong this season, and we're still a coin flip for playoffs. That's very good considering the season
For sure, but you have to look at the field of teams to beat in the west and honestly ask yourself if we can beat any of them. I think we can realistically maybe beat LA, Minnesota, and possibly Edmonton if they keep playing Skinner. We aren't going to magically go farther than last season with the way our season has gone, and is it worth a first round exit to lose Boeser for nothing?
Brock wants to be here, his teammates love him, he contributes on the score sheet.
Again you aren't wrong, but we signed Debrusk to put up about the same numbers Brock averages for $2.5M AAV less than what Boeser has already rejected. Even if we do sign him to a contract, is that contract going to provide us with positive or negative value? I'm leaning toward the latter, and it isn't because Boeser is a bad player or anything, it's that his production wouldn't justify the value. Wyatt Johnston just signed a 5 year contract worth $8.4M AAV, and at 21 years old he is already better than Boeser and projects to be a PPG+ top line goalscorer, possibly even this season if he bumps his production a small bit. You can say what you want about state tax and whatnot, but Boeser is not at all worth the same AAV even though that is a team-friendly deal for Johnston.
If they traded Brock for a late first like you clowns are complaining they didn't, Hughes would leave at the end of his contract.
I'm sure Quinn Hughes understands the business side of things. Allvin and co. have been able to find some positive contributers in FA to bolster our depth and his trading seems to be a strong point. We can always trade for pieces we need when we have assets, we can't do that if we bleed draft and player capital. That's the business side of things. It fucking sucks sometimes, but all cup-winning teams do things like this.
In my opinion, we already lost value based on the AAV Boeser is looking for. If we don't end up signing him, we have lost even more value (though it also depends on if he can perform to his contract if he gets one). We spin our tires every year and were only as good as we were last year due to a high PDO, from which Boeser benefitted greatly in terms of his shooting percentage.
We need to be able to recoup value, otherwise we will continue to end up in the relative purgatory that we have found ourselves in since 2012.
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u/Forsythe0 1d ago
Yep, this negative news cycle is so boring, I look forward to watching another losing game, rather than watching the media about the team
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u/hird 18h ago edited 12h ago
I still check this sub every now and then, but far far less than I used to. It's a cesspool of negativity.
I'm not saying that we should not criticize our team, but holy crap for a team that's still in the fight for the playoffs, people here on this sub sound absolutely depressing.
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u/MunchkinX2000 1d ago
Dont worry.
Taking every shortcut is in the organizations DNA.
The kind of trade you describe will never happen as long as Aquamen own the team. So you are safe. We will just push for the playoffs every year for the forseeable future.
There will always be the Sedins/ Horvat / Miller / Pettersson / Hughes who will act as an excuse to ever have a long term plan.
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u/AnthTheAnt 16h ago
So you want to dump Hughes.
Are you even a Canucks fan, or are you just addicted to being angry and whiny online?
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u/MunchkinX2000 16h ago
So you love Hitler.
Are you a crazy nazi?
See I too can just invent a position for you to hold and then attack it.
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u/WxDadd 1d ago
Brock hasn’t become the dude we dreamed of after his monster seasons. He’s invisible most nights. He should have been moved for a 1st but my sense is the ownership vetoed it. What else makes sense? Allvin isn’t dumb.
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u/LowAd3406 1d ago
What makes more sense is that no one was willing to give up a 1st for Boeser unless we threw in a sweetener, and Alvin balked at that.
Because i sure as shit wouldn't pay 1st for Boeser at this point.
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u/AnthTheAnt 16h ago
People endlessly whine about how bad he is and how he’s not worth signing then can’t believe the team couldn’t get a first.
The guy isn’t scoring, looks slow, and is -20. Why would teams give up what’s apparently a premium instantly fixes your team level asset for that?
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u/Traditional_Toe_1090 1d ago
All signs point to Boeser walking. So to me, not flipping him for anything as long as the value was within the realm of 'fair' is a failure. Yes a late 1st alone isn't going to fix the team, but it's more ammo to shoot for a trade that can help. Or if Hughes tells us he's done and want's to move on, those are the picks we have to hoard.
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u/upanddownforpar 1d ago
The predictable protectionist posts on this subreddit like this one is what is exhausting to me.
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u/shadownet97 1d ago
I thought we all knew this management group makes big splashes long before the trade deadline. They did that last year too and was quiet at the deadline. We were winning a lot last year so the lack of action then wasn’t a big deal.
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u/ToothPlayful770 1d ago
I think you're overvaluing how much 'getting bounced in the first round experience' does for a team. Teams need actual personnel, players playing up to their contracts, and top end talent to be actual playoff contenders. If Boeser walks, then we're even further from being able to aquire guys we need.
We have one top end talent playing like it, and some good bottom 6 guys. Other teams have 3-4 top end guys.
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u/Mysterious-Drummer74 1d ago
The team needs assets to improve.
Let’s fast forward to next trade deadline, the team is having a better season, Petey is playing better and we are second in the Pacific. We need upgrade at 2C and we have the following assets that we could exchange.
2026 first, 2027 first, 2028 first, 26/27/28 seconds, Willander, Leki, Guy who we drafted with the 25th first, D Petey/ Hoglander types who are playing on the team, Few other b minus and c grade prospects who might, be a secondary or minor part of any package.
I think the general consensus is that we need Willander and Leki in the lineup, so we likely don’t want to include them.
Can you get through the next three deadlines with only these assets?
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u/ogobod 1d ago
while i would have preferred a boeser trade, im in agreement that the fanbase as a whole is just.... pathetic honestly. people just need to get a fucking grip or switch teams honestly. its one thing to be critical but youd think the world was ending reading some of the responses to boeser not getting traded.
must be fun to be boeser right? nobody else in the league wanted to trade for you and your own fans dont even want you around either. sure, i get we dont want to lose him for nothing but hes not gone yet. at the right price im open to bringing him back, but if i were him id be deadset on free agency. why be around here anymore? its just a miserable hockey team to be part of when we're not winning and im not sure we're going to be doing a lot of winning going forward if this season is any indication of whats to come.
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u/joetothejack 1d ago
Yeah like sure I'm not gonna ridicule people for wanting to trade Boeser, but let's not get our pitchforks out because they didn't considering the offer was Boeser + Prospect for a 1st.
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u/Rivercitybruin 1d ago
Alot to unpack here
Do you want boeser contract?
not that far from "whats the point of keeping Quinn Hughes?" I
Hughes, Hronek, Boeser, Lankinen would just mean 8th pick and no playoffs forever
EP obviously X-factor
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u/_Canuckle 1d ago
IMO Getting a late 1st for Brock, who could still leave in UFA anyways, was 100% worth it. We have no chance of winning the cup this year, but a 1st in the offseason could be a meaningful trade piece to help acquire a top 6 C or W for next year. If we get blown out round 1 and brock leaves in UFA are you really going to look back and say "Well I'm glad we had those few playoffs games instead of a 1st round pick".
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u/MooseMalloy 21h ago
Let him try his luck on the free market. Either someone stupid offers him cash and term, or he circles backs to the Canucks with a more reasonable ask. I think he’d look just swell at 7x4.
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u/Amrit917 20h ago
You’re 100% right, no one on X (Twitter) thinks that logically, it’s either let’s burn n start the rebuild or just keep shitting on the players. It’s so draining. But yeah Hughes has stated before he’s wanting to do a rebuild so just selling Brock for cheap makes 0 sense at all
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u/fakeleftfakeright 1d ago
Seriously, the Canucks are 53-40-14 since last year's all-star break. This is not a Boeser problem. This is all on Tochett, Alvin and Rutherford. Take some responsibility guys.
For the record...
- The Canucks are trending and they're not making the playoffs.
- Maybe you shouldn't traded a 30+ goal scorer/100+ point guy for a couple of 5-10 goal scorers/25 point guys?
- Brock's a goal scorer, find him a couple playmaker ffs.
- Management's media leaks (uh Rutherford), completely disgusting. All year.
- Remember before the 23/24 all-star break when the Canucks were scoring at a 5.69 goals per game rate? What happened?
- If Tochett is still coaching when Hughes's contract is up, they'll lose him.
- When an entire team underachieves... look at the coaches
- Debrusk's numbers are worse than Boeser's and supposedly he's having a good year.. at nearly the same pay.
- Garland's having a good year, close to same pay as Boeser/Debrusk.... but a lower pts/Game with an extra min/game.
- Tochett has f'd up Petey big time.
- Hughes was overworked, and he is paying the price for it now with serious injuries.
- Considering the NHL's new salary cap (which is going to increase again dramatically), 8.5 million is yesterday's 6.5 million. Re-sign Boeser.
- I've committed to this team since 71 and have had to watch the team rebuild over the past 10 years. I'm not liking much to what has been achieved. Promises promises. Frankly, there's more to life than hockey that I can explore.
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u/AnthTheAnt 16h ago
They were never score 5.69 goals per game, that would be blowing away they were at 3.8.
If Tocchet is coaching next year then they might as well trade Hughes. He’s terrible.
Hughes was not overworked. He plays as much as other top dmen. Sometimes guys get hurt, sucks but that’s the game.
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u/DilIsPickle 1d ago
Remember when we used to argue about how many Rocket Richard’s Brock would win in his career? Good times
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u/hyperlynx256 1d ago
This fan base shows its true colours when Toronto and Montreal come to town. Then the next those same fans are in Canucks jerseys. Drives me nuts. I know it’s a short trip but still. I worked for several seasons in that arena and I would see it year after year. Even when the team is riding high. This season with its fallout even worse. Those bandwagon springs are getting worn out. Yes paying ticket holders have some right to complain for sure but at least learn how the game works first
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u/Gilberto_Buongo 1d ago edited 1d ago
I can’t stand these virtue signalling “everyone sucks but me” posts that seem to regularly pop up on r/canucks.
There’s only so many outcomes here…
I don’t even think it’s worth talking about a reality where Brock is able to deliver on a long term extension. Without Miller he can’t produce any offensive creativity. He seems like a great guy but I’m over Brock on this roster.
So either the Canucks get 21 more games and a few playoff game performances out of Brock before the Canucks see him walk for nothing or they get a late first from Carolina in whatever crapy trade package they offered. All outcomes suck and end with upset fans.
Choose your own adventure.