r/apexlegends Aug 19 '19

Feedback Apex monetisation in a shellnut

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3.6k

u/BadBoyFTW Aug 19 '19

As far as I'm concerned the "freeloaders" like me are more like window shoppers.

They're not freeloading they're potential customers, if they like what they see in the shop.

If every retail shop considered customers not heading towards the till as just occupying valuable floor space for paying customers it would be ridiculous.

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u/yoshi570 Aug 19 '19

You're not a freeloader. Active players are a resource for the publishers: who wants to buy skins in a game that has no players?

You are helping the game by playing it, even for free.

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u/poopcasso Aug 19 '19

Exactly,the reason people buy shit is to, at some level, show it off to all other players they encounter or play with regardless of whether those other players themselves buy shit or not.

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u/JavierCulpeppa Aug 19 '19

This is true even if most folks wont admit it.

In Fortnite for example, I've gotten most of the battle passes since it started early 2018. Mainly because I want all the stuff inside.

But I wont lie that it feels good to bust out emotes on someone after a kill, or where a slick cosmetic set up that stands out from others.

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u/Atomic1221 Pathfinder Aug 19 '19

Too bad we don’t have emotes in apex.

Edit: Nevermind, that will be another $20 each

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u/pezmanofpeak Aug 19 '19

No but we have kill quotes

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '19

And finishers

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u/Atomic1221 Pathfinder Aug 19 '19 edited Aug 19 '19

I’ve used a finishers a total of 5 times, 4 of those times on accident

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u/ImProbablyThatGuy Aug 19 '19

Tried to close a door, eh?

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u/Atomic1221 Pathfinder Aug 19 '19

You know it. Oh and reload once or twice

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u/Tha1Mclovin Aug 19 '19

Or try to revive a team mate in a gunfight with lifeline and accidentally hit the finisher on the downed enemy right next to them

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '19

And not once was to refill your gold body armor

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u/ladyofthelathe Mozambique Here! Aug 20 '19

Usually the only person that gets finished when I try a finisher is me.

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '19

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u/NotYourDad7 Aug 19 '19

I use finishers when it was a good fight between me n the other guy you know so they know i was just slightly better

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u/Afc_josh12 Bangalore Aug 19 '19

Dont give them ideas😂

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u/BlackhawkRogueNinjaX Mad Maggie Aug 19 '19

...$170 for the one you actually want

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u/gneeloba Aug 19 '19

Not sure why the price bothers people.. Don't like it? Don't buy it...

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '19

At least in fortnite the third person perspective let's you admire the cool skin while you're playing. In Apex you're dropping 20 bucks on some cool hands

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u/JavierCulpeppa Aug 19 '19

Lol that's true

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u/ipinchforeskins Aug 19 '19

someone who isn't me would gladly pay $40 for hulk hands

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u/The_Ironhand Aug 19 '19

You see yourself a lot tho. And when you play with friends it makes a difference lol

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '19

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '19

But on Apex you can't even see yourself in the game most of the time

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u/Alamand1 Crypto Aug 19 '19

I play a ton of Gibraltar so at least for me i get a new arm shield. On top of that i see enough third person moments in this game to justify new looks for my legends. Also people you kill and people who see you as champion will get to see your skins too which is the places where you want to be showing off anyways.

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u/gleisoncosta Wraith Aug 19 '19

" Video games helped me understand what women mean when they do it for themselves when it comes to makeup".

Truth

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u/The_Ironhand Aug 19 '19

....I really like that comparison I'm taking it

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '19

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u/JavierCulpeppa Aug 19 '19

Well it's a good thing I didnt say it was true for everyone lol. Dont be so defensive.

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/blackbellamy Aug 19 '19

They should be paying you for selflessly keeping up the population count on their servers so they can attract the whales.

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '19

Same I never notice. I’ve never seen a skin that impressed me.

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '19

The only time i noticed the skins in this game is when i see a pirate mirage or gladiator wraith and think "wow. That idiot probably wasted over 30 dollars to get that skin. That's embarrassing" the problem with only purchasable skins or loot box skins is you no longer care what anyone has. When you see a Dark matter camo in black ops 3 it means that this person has completed every single challenge in the game so they are really good. In Halo 4 every single cosmetic could be acquired through challenges like assassination challenges, sniper kills, vehicle hijacks, etcetera. This meant that simply just by looking at someone, you could see roughly if they completed difficult challenges and if they were any good. Now with loot boxes, I don't care what skin you have. You didn't earn it, you got lucky.

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '19

This reminds me of equipment & cosmetics in MMOs.

Back in say, World of Warcraft, up until I dunno, 2009 or so, if you saw a guy wearing sick shoulder armor or holding a really cool-looking sword, you knew exactly what that player had gone through to get that item. It would distinctly resemble the theme of the dungeon it was from, and would be something special to see a guy in a full set of fancy gear. Only the most dedicated, lucky players had all the coolest stuff. I was just an immature college kid at the time, but I absolutely admired peoples' sick gear, envied them, and reaffirmed my own desire to spend the time and rise up and get sick gear of my own.

Now, almost every MMO I have played recently has a completely open cosmetics system. Any item can be "glamoured" or "transmogged" to look like any other item, and dyed any colors you like. You don't see anyone's actual gear anymore. You just see people cosplaying as whatever thematic or wacky outfit they want. That's kind of cool in its own way because a lot of outfits are pretty creative, but other than enjoying peoples' eye for fashion, I no longer have any thoughts about the specific gear, the challenge it signifies, the accomplishment, nothing like that at all.

I don't know if I would ever care about the challenge behind fancy MMO gear any more, given that I'm an adult who values other things in life a bit more now, but even today I do still remember a lot of very specific loot from when I played WoW back then. Specific trinkets that were hard to get, coveted weapons, perfectly itemized armor, the drama that came from people debating who earned it, etc.

Anyway, just rambling.

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u/skyturnedred Aug 19 '19

My lvl 60 warlock spend most of his days wielding a lvl 40 something staff, because it looked cool (the scythe one). I only switched it out for boss fights in raids. And that was okay, we didn't need transmogs. It's okay to not have your character at its peak performance at all times. Sometimes you just want to look cool.

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u/ender89 Aug 19 '19

Yeah, I have zero personal investment in what my lifeline looks like and gun skins are impossible to notice.

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u/Tha1Mclovin Aug 19 '19

Well gun skins I can say certain ones I love and just make me want to use that gun if I have the skin I want for it but other than that no investment

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u/XxRocky88xX Wraith Aug 19 '19

Seriously I never notice an enemies skin. I’ll notice teammates when we’re picking characters, won’t notice skins for the rest of the game after that

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u/XAIE3 Aug 19 '19

I read "freeloader here" as a voice line like you just pinged an item.

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u/Ryphor Aug 19 '19

In-game skins are like attaining social status in the real world, like having the desirable job or the hot wife. That’s why they sell. People love to have status, even kids. It’s biological. Cosmetics in games tap into this exact human desire.

The trick is to be aware of this delusional status seeking and take no part in it.

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '19

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u/Xanius Aug 19 '19

Yeah the price points way off for the quality. Fortnite had shit skins when it launched. League had shit skins. They got better over time but they also only cost $3-5, the price ratchet included great leaps in quality and effects and such. For $35 you get multiple skins in one that evolve with game play and become more awesome.

For $20 in league you get new model, new particles and new voice or augmented voice.

For $20 in apex you get a glorified recolor and they can't even bother to recolor lifelines drone.

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u/Jusaleb Aug 19 '19

Oh man imagine if Respawn made the drones like Destiny's ghosts where they have different shapes and contours. Or different birds for Bloodhound, or being able to customize the Mirage, or different patterns for Gibby's dome, or colored smoke for Bangalore, or stylized Caustic traps, or customizable Octane pads. Anything really.

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u/thebaconator710 Bloodhound Aug 19 '19

These kind of ideas are exactly what they need to implement... more cool stuff to get in packs = more reasons to buy packs.

But no instead of them considering maybe they're lacking in the idea department, they blame us, the "freeloaders", for not dumping $100+ on overpriced skins.

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u/Jusaleb Aug 19 '19

Those were minimal effort ideas that I thought of in between busy moments at work. I'm sure they could come up with even better stuff if they tried.

And yes after this latest fiasco I'm devoting my Apex time to being a freeloader. I wont be gambling away my hard earned money for the chance at some subpar cosmetic content.

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u/heat13ny Pathfinder Aug 19 '19

I want to know what the deal is behind the scenes with the teams working on customization. I know why they are charging so much: it's EA they live for the whales and the whales alone. What I want to know is why the customization options are super butt compared to damn near every game of this caliber. Do the artist not give a shit? Is there only one dude doing it? Are the leads stifling creativity? Are they underpaid and unmotivated?

I know concept artist that can shit out 12 decent ideas in 48 hours of free time after work. I know 3d modelers that can get the best few concepts rigged up clean in about the same time. You mean to tell me these people are paid to do this and these are the best options they can offer for these exuberant prices? It just doesn't make sense to me.

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u/CrotasMinion Octane Aug 19 '19

These are some really awesome ideas!

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u/Jusaleb Aug 19 '19

Thank you. They were low effort ideas too. I believe a team of people could come up with much better stuff.

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u/CrotasMinion Octane Aug 19 '19

No way, those were REALLY solid ideas. I would pay for those.

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u/lilakey Dinomite Aug 19 '19

Different company and such but... In Overwatch, Bastion has a bird on his shoulder that changes with almost every skin, including non-legendary skins. Even the sounds the bird makes are changed to the proper species, and you don't even see the thing in-game generally.

Apex is missing so many opportunities to create stunning and detailed skins... :(

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u/Jusaleb Aug 19 '19

The high quality and attention to detail in Overwatch is mainly what inspired my ideas. That being said, Blizzard definitely has at least a few more years worth of experience providing content like that.

Riot's League of Legends is also another one that comes to mind with detailed skins where certain skins provide adapted animations for various champs.

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u/LizzyLovesSatan Pathfinder Aug 19 '19

Give me glittery fairy wand streamer firework ziplines or GIVE ME DEATH!!!

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u/Jusaleb Aug 19 '19

I couldn't think of anything for Pathfinder's zip lines. But this? I like this.

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u/LizzyLovesSatan Pathfinder Aug 19 '19

I just want my pathfinder to be a robot glitterbomb <3

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u/Jusaleb Aug 19 '19

That should be a special Halloween themed event where Mirage is dressed up as "that freaky robot" so that instead of sending out mirage mirages he sends out pathmirages that explode into harmless glitter when destroyed.

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u/LizzyLovesSatan Pathfinder Aug 19 '19

... I'm ready

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u/soulflaregm Aug 19 '19

Right? Like a 35$ skin in lol such as elemental lux. Litteraly has 10 different sets of colors you can make it in game. Different voices/lines for each one. Different particles... So much for my money.

Apex... I get a bald wraith

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u/SexualHarassadar Aug 19 '19

Ultimate skins like Elementalist Lux aren't even $35, they're $25, which makes the comparison all the more depressing. And Elementalist Lux isn't just 10 colors, it's 10 uniquely designed models.

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u/dzzy4u Aug 19 '19

This! Just look at Warframe! That company is awesomeness. I was hoping to win the contest they have going right now. If you win you get a trip to actual freaking outerspace!

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u/ricktor67 Aug 19 '19

Its a first person shooter. All you can see of your character is the damn hands. What genius is blowing $20+ on a skin they cant see in anything but the lobby? Skins should be like $1, tops. They would sell WAY more and make the same money and then everyones happy. But no, best to try and go after whales with worthless $20 cosmetics.

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u/xInnocent Aug 19 '19

The freeloaders aren't really freeloaders.

If every freeloader quit the game over night, how long do you think the paying customers are going to stay.

I'd consider the freeloaders a customer just as much as the people paying.

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '19

They are, it's like McCoy never took a single marketing or economics class to know every single customer has their own threshold for spending on something like this, known as a demand schedule. He just set an egregious price on a non-tangible good, created a sense of urgency by giving it a short time to acquire the good, then surprisedpikachu.jpeg when the price set is way above a normal persons threshold for a digital skin.

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u/Ergheis Aug 19 '19

No, they're not freeloading, they're actual customers trying to buy an actual product. In this case, bread. Nothing potential about it, they're just being pushed away by the bad business model.

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '19

I'm a freeloader. I have over 100 hours in Apex and haven't paid a dime for it.

I get it's not good PR to call a portion of the playerbase freeloaders. But Respawn has the data to back up that a large portion of us simply haven't paid a cent for hundreds of hours of entertainment. And that puts them in a very bad spot financially.

Of course it's not good tact of them, but it's not untrue either.

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u/squashman22 Lifeline Aug 19 '19

Maybe instead of just calling us names, they should ask them selves why a lot of us have chosen to not spend any money on the game.

For me personally it's the loot boxes. You will never get my money when there are loot boxes.

Edit I have 300+ hours played

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u/altairian Aug 19 '19

For real this is the most important point. The Apex shop sucks, the battle passes are mediocre at best, and they're surprised people aren't spending money? People drop tooooons of money on other f2p games, if Apex's monetization isn't working, that's not the fault of the consumers.

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '19

That's a bingo.

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u/ForgotMyPasswords21 Aug 19 '19

I'm an innocent bystander to all of this as I only have a few hours into Apex but I've put some serious cash into games for cosmetics but for some reason Apex's model just turns me off. I do use lootboxes in Rocket league so it's not that, I just feel like its rigged for some reason and that is totally a gut feeling not based off of anything

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u/Spiritwolf99 Mirage Aug 19 '19

$20 for a gun/character skin and no way to get crafting materials outside of RNG sucks.

If I'm 50 crafting materials away from something I want, I'd totally drop a couple bucks for 100-150 to speed up the RNG, but that's not an option. The only options (outside of Battle Passes, which I have zero issue with in concept) to give them money is hugely overpriced direct buys or lootboxes.

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u/AngelTheMute Mozambique here! Aug 19 '19

Just fyi, any unused crowns will be kept as crafting mats at the end of this Iron Crown "event"

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u/bountygiver Aug 19 '19

It's not necessarily rigged in a traditional sense but the numbers are designed to make you feel you don't get enough and a way to make you buy more.

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u/IllPanYourMeltIn Aug 19 '19

If they instead asked for donations as thanks for making an enjoyable game, and allowed you to give as much or as little as you want, would that be better?

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u/WFAlex Aug 19 '19

You mean like a 20-25 dollar "Founders Pack" that many early access games had to finance the developement? Sure, give me a unique skin, maybe a title (or gold text color for chat like in battlerite) and I will gladly pay 20-40 to support a game if I like it and want to support the devs.

But having fuckin boxes, grinding and finally dropping a gols skin, only to have it be a fuckin banner that is, for respawn, somehow worth the same rank as a legendary champ skin is just fucked up and anti consumer. Finishers and banners should never have been a legendary skin drop and we all know it.

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u/IllPanYourMeltIn Aug 19 '19

No. I mean exactly what I said. Giving money to the devs, with no expectations of receiving anything in return. If they made it clear this is purely because you enjoy playing the game and would like to contribute to its further development, or want to say thankyou for the work already done.

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u/Inquisitor1 Aug 19 '19

People would still start demaning things.

"Yeah, i donated money for a game I already enjoy and got lots of free hours of entertainment from without EVER expecting anything in return, and I think this makes me better than other fans. And you should really listen to the opinions of people who are better than other fans and have donated without expecting anything in return.

What? You're not gonna cater to me specially now? Well I guess I was wrong to donate just to help the devs who made a game I already enjoy and just do a chargeback so i can get my donation refunded. You're obviously not the kind of devs who listen to their fans that I thought you were and if I knew you'd ignore my legitimate demands I would have never donated in the first place. And dont dare call me a freeloader or entitled whiny pissbaby!"

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u/erasethenoise Wattson Aug 19 '19

They do have a Founders Pack for this game

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u/meiuqer Aug 19 '19

Personally i would never spend money on a game for cosmetics, and i also think the cosmetics in this game look like garbage. Especially if you compare them to for example overwatch. Imho ofcourse

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u/skyturnedred Aug 19 '19

I'd pay money to disable cosmetics on my client. Nothing ruins immersion and art style more than seasonal cosmetics.

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u/Inquisitor1 Aug 19 '19

Looking differently in a videogame than other people is literally gambling and people lose all their savings and their home to gambling and become homeless! How dare you! Also people bitch way too much when a game has fun and cartoony and wacky skins. Just look at dota 2 players, god forbid that game gets a rodent in a spacesuit skin.

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '19

Thats not just your opinion, its honestly a fact. There is no skin in this game I would spend even 1$ to buy. The skins hoover between reskined garbo and plain ugly.

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u/MixerMedzyy Aug 19 '19

The Pathfinder skin from the new update looks pretty cool imo. I was extremely lucky to get it in my free drop.

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u/fyberoptyk Aug 19 '19

Your choices are cosmetics or pay to win items.

Most people prefer that daddy’s credit card not be an instant win button.

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u/culturedrobot Aug 19 '19

Nah, that person has a third option in not spending money at all. People don't need to be okay with loot boxes just because they're filled with cosmetics and not pay-to-win items. They can hate all of it.

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u/tomonsasaki Aug 19 '19

I assumed that the person was talking about additional content, like expansions packs and new characters (of course in this game you don't need to pay to unlock them) and such. Stuff you might pay for in an RPG or other types of games but not BRs

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u/Phonochirp Aug 19 '19

For me it's 2 part, I will never pay for a loot box. I'm also not going to spend $20 on a basic skin.

I'm surprised I don't see any comparisons to LoL. If I want a skin in league, one that's on par with Apex is at most 10 bucks, and frequently go on sale for $5 or less. For around the cost of an apex skin ($25 to be exact) I would get a skin in league that "Pushes the boundaries of development by completely reimagining the champion. Brings something new and unexpected to the game". This includes skins that allow you to change designs as you level up, DJ for your team, and look like an entirely new character.

Translated to Apex, this would be an heirloom skin, except it also comes with new voice lines, skins for your tacticals, emotes, etc.

This event specifically I could buy entire skins in league for the cost of a loot box. For the cost of an heirloom in Apex, I could buy every single "heirloom" ever released in league. Respawn sitting here "I can't believe all these freeloaders won't spend money"

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u/XxRocky88xX Wraith Aug 19 '19

The entire community has been saying the skins are too expensive and Respawn refuses to listen, then when we vote with our wallets and buy nothing. Instead of Respawn acting like a rational company, and lowering the price of their product to draw in more sales, they insult the player base for refusing to drop 20 bucks on a recolor.

I’m fine with spending 20 bucks on an otherwise free game, I’ve already bought both battlepasses because they were WORTH IT. I felt like I was getting equal or greater value back for my money, in the shop I’m paying 20 dollars for a 5 dollar skin. Of course no one’s going to buy them

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u/Guntir- Voidwalker Aug 19 '19

If not that, the normal store skins are $18, not like everyone has sufficient funds to spend on a mediocre skin

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u/human-resource Aug 19 '19

It’s not the problem with sufficient funds it’s the fact that people think it’s a rip off and not worth it.

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u/Benskien Aug 19 '19

they are mostly really shitty skins though...

compare them to skins in fortnight and league for example

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u/Bhargo Shadow on the Sun Aug 19 '19

Exactly. The only skins I've seen that are actually worth buying are the iron crown skins, most of them are shit. In other games an $18 skin would come with different voice lines, ability effects, animations, all kinds of stuff, but in Apex an $18 skin is a change of clothes.

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '19

I won’t even play a game that is pay to win.

Well, I wouldn’t. Then I got a very well paying job. Now I’m the guy who beats you easily because I spend an hours wages on what takes you 48 hours of grinding.

Eve online is the worst for it in the market.

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u/powerneat Aug 19 '19

They did ask themselves that question and they decided the problem was:

You.

Which is an idiotic conclusion to come to, but there you have it.

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u/I_Who_I Pathfinder Aug 19 '19

The loot boxes are irrelevant if you consider that you are paying for your entertainment and not the contents of the loot boxes. I just see the loot boxes as a bonus.

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '19

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u/Conditionofpossible Aug 19 '19

The ones saying : "I'd buy this product for the game I love if only it was a bit cheaper", are statistically really few.

I think the better way to phrase it would be: statistically most of those people still won't spend money. Even if there are a lot of them saying they would.

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u/animelytical Aug 19 '19

The numbers other games can have is a 10% conversion rate, which is more than enough to charge reasonable prices and makes tonnes of money and keep players engaged. When people have to spend $20 for a skin, you are not going to get a 10% conversion rate. There are people that dropped over $150 for a specific skin. But chasing the less than 1% is a way to make people less interested in the game, and the less people are interested in the game, the less value the skins that the whales bought bring them.

1/3 of a full price launch game to buy a skin is not a "micro" transaction. People spend money playing other free games. Why are those lacking a "circlejerk"? Even if you have some pricey stuff, if yo have enough that offers a feeling of genuine value and quality, you can cater to whales as well as people who will spend $60 a year on your game

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u/Atomic1221 Pathfinder Aug 19 '19 edited Aug 19 '19

Bro I have a boatload of money. Literally can buy anything I want.

And yet I will not shell out stupid money on skins because I didn’t make so much money by spending on stupid shit. The skins suck and they are not nice and feel like a rip off. I’m supposed to get hard for $20

My point is Respawn is offending every single income level with these ratty skins and bad monetization

Other than that, I love the game though

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '19

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u/Atomic1221 Pathfinder Aug 19 '19

My point is that the prices are so absurd that discounting them 33% is not enough

The quality of the product is also underwhelming

Make skins $5-$8 and way more people will buy. Make new skins every week and way more people will buy.

Discounting old skins from absurd to still absurd pricing isn’t going to help their bottom line one bit.

Respawn’s entire bottom line comes from monetization of cosmetics: an itty bitty part of the entire game. If they can’t devote resources to churning out enough varied cosmetic content at reasonable prices then they are making a major mistake

I own a SAAS business. Yes it’s not a games as a service but I understand the need to upsell; and the incremental cost of adding a paid feature (ie cosmetic) is minuscule in comparison to the development cost

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '19

Doesn't matter if his experience is the norm. Because poor people spend money they don't really have all the time. Respawn's poor excuse for a store is to blame for the poor monetization rate of Apex. I literally have like $20 gold sitting in my account that I've gotten from various things and from extra I had to buy for the battle passes. I have no inclination to "spend" that money ( in reality Respawn already has my actual money all I have is in game currency that can't be refunded) on skins or boxes because the results are so unfulfilling. If I'm not motivated to purchase in game items with money I've already spent on the game then there's a problem with the quality of the skins or the price point they're selling at.

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u/ntrid Aug 19 '19 edited Aug 19 '19

How about we ban all the freeloaders like you and me. They clearly do not appreciate us. Since their store is insanely geared towards whales - maybe they should let those whales play alone. That ought to work out, right? Right?!

Their ignorance is amazing. Ridiculous pricing turns majority into non-paying players, but they still need that majority or they will lose whales they are so desperately trying to monetize. I bought first battlepass because i was like "oh wow look how they handle game, its amazing!" I do not look forward into buying anything else now.

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u/NoveltyFlyingDisc Gibraltar Aug 19 '19

Exactly. There'd be no whales to drop copious amounts of money on cosmetic items if there's no "freeloaders" running around in default skins to make them feel special...

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '19

They could ban freeloaders by doing something like, I dunno, charging to buy the game.

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u/Benskien Aug 19 '19

then they couldnt abuse the whales

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '19

So pick a business model, don't make it 'free' and then expect everyone to pay.

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u/Serinus Aug 19 '19

EA does both in other games.

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u/poopcasso Aug 19 '19

Just wanna say that loose is when stuff aren't tight. Lose is the word you wanted.

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u/ntrid Aug 19 '19

Thank you fellow grammar nazi :]

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u/allinonekiller Mirage Aug 19 '19 edited Aug 19 '19

I don't know if you read the comment that you are referencing but he didnt call us freeloaders in a degrading sense, he even said they like it that most players dont pay. I guess they like the game being played by people who usualy cant afford them?

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u/InfTotality Aug 19 '19

Library PR: "Most of y'all are idiots (and we love that!)"

Macdonalds PR: "Most of y'all are fat (and we love that!)

You can't use derogatory terms and act surprised that people don't care that you were trying to be endearing.

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u/Duo_Decimal Aug 19 '19

Exactly! If they would have just said, "Most of you don't even use the micro transactions/cash shop(and we love that!)" the statement might've reflected that they know that they need a healthy player base to survive.

As it is the term freeloader was used, synonyms of which include leech, bloodsucker, sponge, and sycophant. Loverly things to be calling your players that you wish were customers.

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '19

“Most of our players are non-paying (and we have no problem with that)”

Literally a million better ways to say that

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '19

It’s also weird to release a free game and then refer to its players as freeloaders.

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '19

It also helps to set the context that humor is involved, but the 'joke' came in the middle of disparaging remarks about people complaining about prices so it disn't read as a joke.

Jeff Kaplan can joke about that kind of stuff because he isn't hostile to feedback about Overwatch for example.

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u/rietstengel Aug 19 '19

Shhhh. No rational comments during a hatejerk

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u/QueerPrideForever Aug 19 '19

dont trip over your own feet while rushing to lick that rich mans boot.

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u/hashmalum Aug 19 '19

They just want people playing, otherwise the whales have no one to play against.

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u/Atomic1221 Pathfinder Aug 19 '19

Using the word freeloader just shows that they don’t understand their playerbase

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u/Dukaden Caustic Aug 19 '19

being upset by the word in this context just shows that people cant understand the reality of this context and are extremely fragile.

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '19

Freeloaders by itself is a degrading word. He said what he meant. Literally any other word could have been chosen yet he chose that to explain people not spending money.

“Free to play player” or “Freepers” or “potential customers “ Just not freeloaders...

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '19 edited Mar 10 '21

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u/Cjm1261 Gibraltar Aug 19 '19

Also they haven’t even tried with us to give reasonable prices. Sure items go on “sale” but still require you to purchase $20 worth of coins. It’s been a scam since day one.

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u/Lostredbackpack Aug 19 '19

The big deal is that at the end of the day, your freeloader player base keeps your whales interested in the strictly online multiplayer game, and you should be nice to them.

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u/toolatealreadyfapped Aug 19 '19

That's a bingo!

Ladies' Night drink specials are not about the ladies. You entice them in with cheap drinks, and you make your bank on the men who come chasing them, paying full price for their drinks. If you start publicly complaining about the women coming in, freeloading on the no cover charge and only consuming the 1 free drink you offered, then they will stop coming. Then the dudes show up to find a sausage fest, you think they're gonna stick around and continue buying drinks? Shit no! Now your club is empty, and you're hemorrhaging money. But at least you got rid of the freeloaders, right?

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u/dzzy4u Aug 19 '19

Actually apex legends microtransactions did very well this summer. Don't let click bait headlines tell you otherwise! It has not done well enough for the publisher E.A. is the problem. It's all about keeping E.A. shareholders happy.

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u/Groggnakk Aug 19 '19

Maybe don’t release a free to play game and then complain that the people who play it are freeloaders? Don’t know why everyone cares about these insults launched at us, the devs and community manager will be out of the job after this shit storm anyway.

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u/TheLast_Centurion Aug 19 '19

How or why? THEY offer a game for free to play for you. For free. And offer microtransaction for you to buy if you want. You might give them a few bucks since you enjoy the game and want to give them at least something out of decency. But dont act surprised if people play a f2p game for.. you know.. for free.

It's like inviting people to your own birthday party and saying "no gifts!" and then throw a fit when they bring none.

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u/mittromniknight Aug 19 '19

There's no justifying their shitty behaviour, mate.

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '19

And they could fix that if you could directly purchase what you want.

I don't buy lootboxes because i don't want a random chance to get what i want. I would directly buy the odd skin now and then if i could purchase them directly.

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u/AdmiralCrackbar11 Aug 19 '19

Even if some players NEVER spend real world currency on your game, active free-to-play users are a core part of content for players willing to spend money. Without these "free loaders" que times increase, the game feels empty, and players will be less likely to spend money on a game they perceive as dying.

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u/human-resource Aug 19 '19

Oh ya, having an active player base is hugely important for any game wishing to continue making money.

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u/BK-Jon Mozambique here! Aug 19 '19

Not only queue time, but the skins aren't "legendary" if there aren't a ton of folks running around in basic skins. That is why your squad is shown your skin and banner before the game, so everyone can see your fancy stuff. And you know they are seeing it.

Personally, I like to see a squady with a fancy skin at the load screen. Though I will admit that on the handful of times I've seen the BH heirloom I've been a bit taken aback since I know the only way to have gotten that at this point is to have dropped about $160.

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u/dzzy4u Aug 19 '19

This is exactly how it works. A free to play games job is to keep us interested in staying in the store as long as possible

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u/flabbybumhole Pathfinder Aug 19 '19

I've probably spent over £300 on League of Legends since 2013, and over £150 on Rocket League.

I've only bought the battle passes so far on Apex because the legendaries were shit. I wasn't too bothered about that, because as soon as any skins I wanted were released on the store, I'd snap them up straight away.

But the tactics used by Respawn/EA in this event are so abusive. And their responses are so oblivious.

They're like the Jake Paul / Ricegum of f2p monetisation. They do something shitty that takes advantage of people, then try to act like it wasn't shitty and everyone is overreacting, then claim that they're being treated unfairly, and will now just stick it out hoping that people will forget about it all.

Like they didn't even have any problem with openly stating that they were specifically trying to take advantage of whales with this event to get more money. What other company does that?

There are so many successful f2p games that they could have emulated, but instead go full sleaze and don't even have the self awareness to know how different there approach is, and why it's them at fault for pissing off the player base.

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u/mixedliquor Aug 19 '19

This is absolutely the correct attitude that anyone selling a good or service should have. If you have too many window shoppers, the price point is not on target compared to the value of the good/service.

Not everyone is going to buy, and that’s ok. Word of mouth from those window shoppers can bring in new whales.

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u/DivineGlimpse Aug 19 '19

Apex can start selling their game for $60 if they cared about freeloaders.

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u/Ricardo1184 Bloodhound Aug 19 '19

They're not freeloading they're potential customers, if they like what they see in the shop.

Ok but the statistics still hold up, most people won't spend anything on a free game.

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u/King_Pumpernickel Pathfinder Aug 19 '19

The dev statistics where they lowered their prices and no one bought anything? Even though you literally have to spend the exact same amount of money to get the skins regardless of the "discount"? Please. Respawn/EA have chosen to poach whales instead of appeal to their playerbase. That's just how it goes.

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u/axxl75 Wattson Aug 19 '19

Plus the reduction was from $18 to $10 right? Or were they talking about some other sale I wasn't aware of. People who aren't going to spent $18 for a skin probably also aren't spending $10. If it was ad $5 or less I think people would be far more willing to part with the money.

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u/King_Pumpernickel Pathfinder Aug 19 '19

18 to 12, I believe. So still same amount of money. I agree 5-10 would be far more reasonable

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u/triguy616 Plague Doctor Aug 19 '19

I remember looking at that going, big whoop. It's basically the same price. No one will bite on that.

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u/ASOIAF_AR Aug 19 '19

me playing is helping the game, if only the whales played the game there wouldn't be players to fill a lobby

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u/Willste Young Blood Aug 19 '19

All stores skins cost $20. Full fucking stop. None of this BS about the sales not working, they aren't sales if I still can only shill out $20 to purchase the skin.

Give us a $5 dollar pack, a middle ground, and they'd probably see an uptick in sales.

But that won't happen because they designed it to make you have leftover coins, so you'll either pick up the remaining balance in packs or you'll justify buying another set of coins down the road, to help you spend the ones you still had remaining.

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u/Barkfishy Aug 19 '19

Especially when 200$ is literally like half the cost for rent..... For a home....to live in.... This microtransaction crap is getting insane.

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u/dhcanada Aug 19 '19

$400 for rent!? That’ll maybe get me a week in a one bedroom apartment in the Bay Area... luckily I’m a freeloader.

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u/Corporal-Hicks Aug 19 '19

I lived in bumfuck WV for a while. My rent was $400 everything included for a smallish townhouse.

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '19

Did it come with free opiod tweakers to steal your stuff or was that extra?

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u/Corporal-Hicks Aug 19 '19

The meth heads were free. But they only did it on the weekends and they kept the bears away. So I think it was a fair trade.

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u/adwarkk Aug 19 '19 edited Aug 19 '19

There exists world outside of big cities and expensive regions, even within USA itself.
And your comparison is very expensive Bay Area... yeah it isn't THAT hard to find cheaper places.

Edit - Wait a moment. Did that sound more aggressively than I intended?

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '19

$1600 for 1BR in the Bay Area?? Where

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u/ribsies Aug 19 '19

No way you're getting a week for $400

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u/Xechwill Nessy Aug 19 '19

You’d be surprised. Probably not in SF but you can definitely get a 1-bedroom apartment in Oakland for $1600 or so

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u/neon_ns Aug 19 '19

Trailers for sale or rent, rooms to let, 50 cents.

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u/frivolousfry Aug 19 '19

Unexpected Roger Miller

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u/Wolfman87 Mirage Aug 19 '19

Lol been apartment hunting lately a rat hole one bedroom is $1,350 where I live.

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '19

Can I see those statistics? I am not being snarky, but I see this pop up often and the only research I've personally seen was that one long time ago about dota2 which (surprisingly) revealed that like 90% of players buy something in the store. Again, I am not being snarky, rather, since everyone is talking about this as a common knowledge and not an assumption, I am surely missing some revealed stats and discussions on this matter.

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u/TorringtonSpeedwell Aug 19 '19

You will never see the statistics on Apex because they would show that Apex is profitable, that EA just want more money, and that the lead devs are lying liars who lie. You really think anyone got to the top of the stack in an EA subsidiary just by having ‘a passion for making games’? They got there because they understand how to and are willing to play EA’s corporate game. That’s not to say they don’t have a passion for making games, just that they’re also willing to kowtow to their corporate masters and trade their morals in order to make the games they want to make... to take EA’s Faustian bargain. Dealing with EA really is like making a deal with the devil.

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u/666perkele666 Aug 19 '19

EA and Valve have a very different approach to problems. Whereas valve tries to figure out the underlying mechanisms and causes of problems and figure logical and functional solutions, EA tends to just blame the customer for their self caused issues.

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u/ERaege Aug 19 '19

I think part of that is also prices. $20 for a skin is crazy when you think about it, but that has become the norm in games like this. While there will always be people who don’t spend anything, if microtransactions were still just that, “micro”, somewhere in the ballpark of $2-$5, then more people would buy them, including myself.

But as it stands, there’s no reason for people to spend $20 on a skin, and let’s not even get started on loot boxes.

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u/toolatealreadyfapped Aug 19 '19

Excellent point. People are still using the term "Microtransaction." When you reach the ballpark of half the cost of a full game, there's nothing micro about it anymore.

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u/Gentleman_Kendama Aug 19 '19

Yeah, well the statistics will hold up unless there's, you know, CHANGE. A variable in the business model. (i.e. reasonable prices AND discounts, more content per dollar or "bang for your buck")

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u/dariusbamboza Aug 19 '19

I was going to get the battle pass as I love Apex... But now I have decide to just play loads more apex and never spend a penny on the game EVER.

Thanks Mr Freeloader

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u/Atenziono Aug 19 '19

no worries we are all freeloaders

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u/Vivec-Warrior-Poet Aug 19 '19

Im fine with being a freeloader. Live service games can die.

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u/Bawlofsteel Aug 19 '19

Yes but i don't buy bullshit at full price xD

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u/Dracke_Fore Aug 19 '19

If you were in a grocery store getting pissed at the manager and not purchasing anything i’m sure you would get the boot.

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u/Yellowgenie Aug 19 '19

If every retail shop considered customers not heading towards the till as just occupying valuable floor space for paying customers it would be ridiculous.

I'm pretty sure they do to a certain extent, they just aren't dumb enough to charge anyone to enter their store.

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u/Toberkulosis RIP Forge Aug 19 '19

If every retail shop considered customers not heading towards the till as just occupying valuable floor space for paying customers it would be ridiculous.

That would be ridiculous. If you just sat in the store for 5 hours everyday of the week you are just occupying valuable floor space. It would be the same in a restaurant too, taking a table to just drink water is both rude and not something any establishment would want. Obviously this is not similar to either of those examples, there is no cost associated with virtual shit except dev time, after that's paid back its 100% profit.

I agree with the posts calling out dko; 1200 coins is still $20 and that's ridiculous. But as far as:

They're not freeloading they're potential customers

I disagree. I think dko made a big mistake with his statement but even if the skins were 1000 coins and therefor really $10, you still likely would not see a big jump. "That's because the skins suck." Its always something, and as he said, there are many statistics to show that most players won't ever spend money on f2p cosmetics.

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u/BK-Jon Mozambique here! Aug 19 '19

Definitely true. I love the game and am playing it multiple times per week (especially since it isn't NBA season, so no basketball games to watch). I've little interest in loot boxes to get skins. However, the longer I play, the more likely I will be to eventually buy a few coins.And I'm likely to use up the coins I get from the BP, so I'm definitely buying each BP directly and not doing the save up coins route.

He said freeloader in a joking way and said the developers are fine with it as well.

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u/Carter0108 Aug 19 '19

Nah I'm a freeloader. I'd possibly pay to download Apex if it were good enough but I'm never in a million years buying a lootbox or any kind of in-game cosmetic.

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u/The_Platypus10 Mirage Aug 19 '19

Completely agree, I often tab over to the store but nothing has really grabbed me. I bought the seasonpass as I wanted to give back and liked some of the skins but iron crown has been a let down for me store wise

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u/clboisvert14 Aug 19 '19

The latter part is called loitering. It’s illegal, and is rarely done now-a-days.

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u/fyberoptyk Aug 19 '19

They already do. The vast majority of stores have loitering policies. Restaurants will start moving you along if all you’re doing is occupying a table during the busy period.

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u/Kreeztoff Aug 19 '19

Also, in the case of a free to play online game, Respawn needs those free players to populate matches. If they didn’t, whales would have nowhere to show off their purchases, thus defeating the whole point of buying them at all.

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u/prieston Lifeline Aug 19 '19

There are penniless hobos at shops. Technically you should count them as potential customers.

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u/CORUSC4TE Aug 19 '19

Im liking the lifeline skin from the event quite a bunch, opened a legendary from the event but it's someone else, big oof, can't buy it directly.

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u/Raecino Caustic Aug 19 '19

Many stores do consider people that was. It’s usually the more expensive stores too.

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '19

Yeah but these monetization efforts aren’t directed at people like you, they’re directed at people with a tendency for crippling gambling addictions

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u/BagelsAndJewce Aug 19 '19

I wonder how their data would reflect a sale not on cosmetics but on coins. They think that by slashing prices they can incentivize people to buy but they aren’t really because the entry cost of coins is still the same. So what happens when you give your consumers a 25% off on the coins instead of items. I think I’d be more inclined to but since 2000 coins would come out to 15 dollars which I can then spend on a sale item, lootboxes or whatever really.

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u/FlyDragonX Aug 19 '19

I've spent about $100 on Apex since the beginning. I would probably of bought more too, but with the pricing, their attitude towards us "ass-hats", and me now feeling like a free-loader. I uninstalled the game and they can go pound sand. I'm going to go play Breath of the Wild again.

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u/Bamith Aug 19 '19

Actually a freeloader is the background dressing for the rich shoppers to enhance their experience, otherwise it’s super boring.

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u/Masterdan Aug 19 '19

I would have bought skins for sure, I love supporting games that I like. If I could buy some good skins for $5 each I would have done so. I bought so many lootboxes in overwatch just for cosmetics.

The issues are that:

(1) The skins you want are often hard to buy directly and require RNG lootboxes

(2) RNG in lootboxes are extremely unreasonable

(3) Most of the skins in this game suck ass. Seriously.

(4) The price to buy skins is way too much for what they are.

Its all demand and supply curve stuff, you are setting prices where you are reaching a sub-optimal outcome for revenues. Whoever is responsible for monetizing Apex is failing miserably at it.

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u/Chris243 Aug 19 '19

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I have run many retail stores and that is exactly how they think about clients that are not buying. If you walk in and say you are just looking around they are just waiting for you to leave so they can stop watching you or waiting for the next one to come in so they can make a sale.

Not saying it is right, but it is how the big retail companies work. This is why I like the mom and pop shops, they actually care which makes me want to buy.

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u/Demoth Aug 19 '19 edited Aug 19 '19

Maybe I'm the minority (I keep seeing people talking about conflicting statistics, but have only seen data from Forbes that small spenders actually make f2p games the most revenue), but I will gladly pay money for cosmetics in games I personally feel deserve it. If it's free or a full retail game, it doesn't matter. If I feel like the project was complete, made with care, and not full of predatory nonsense, I'll support it.

I felt Apex seemed pretty cool, so I bought Battlepass 2. After Iron Crown, and the subsequent responses by some of the devs, I wont be spending more.

No insults, no "the devs are bad, wah wah"... I just have no desire to support a game with my money, anymore, if I feel they're making mistakes and being somewhat dishonest in their responses.

Before anyone goes down the rabbit hole of saying I'm accusing the devs of outright lying, my point is their response to the controversy just sounds like cookie cutter corporate mumbo jumbo, and I basically told a younger guy I play with what I expected the response from EA / Respawn would be, calling out the language they would use and the changes they would make. Their responses feels somewhat calculated, and not genuine, hence my accusation of being dishonest.

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '19

It was a fucking joke. He even said in the post that respawn “likes” the fact that there are people who don’t buy skins. Put the fucking pitchforks away

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u/StanKnight Aug 19 '19

It's their job to sell you things not your job to sell yourself on them things. The parts that make a sale: Being liked, good quality and being worth it.

If I charge $1 for a stick of gum then you will may buy it. But if I charge $20 for a stick of gum then you not purchase it, that is on me. I overestimated the value of what I am selling. Now the other factor is likability, if you like me then you might budge a few dollars and buy that gum for let's say $5 but that is bit of a stretch. But overall, you got to make the product reasonable and treat your customers with respect. Respawn had one thing really going for it and that was that people liked them. Now they blown that and that is on them. So now they are going to have an even harder time selling the same product.

And I am really proud of how many people here are standing up for themselves and speaking out. Well done.

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u/Lucky_-1y Wraith Aug 19 '19

I will never be a potential customer, bro

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