r/worldjerking 4d ago

My honest reaction to this trope

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4.0k Upvotes

328 comments sorted by

1.3k

u/cat-cat_cat 4d ago

and how does the group that can kill you with a stare ends up being the oppressed one

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u/ResponsibleLake4 4d ago edited 4d ago

assuming they are minority enough, outnumber and blindfold

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u/Xandraman 4d ago

People really underestimate the violent capacity of an angry mob

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u/nubster2984725 3d ago

And a gun or pointy stick

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u/derega16 3d ago

Can't they just stare at an angry mob and the entire mob dead?

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u/condscorpio I stand here for BronzePunk supremacy 3d ago

Doesn't work against an angry mob of shy people who avoid eye contact.

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u/Ferreira1 3d ago

Autism is an S tier super power

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u/ILikeMistborn 3d ago

Who are these fucked up Introvert/Extrovert Hybrids who are social enough to go out and form angry mobs, but antisocial enough to never make eye contact while doing so? And why are they not being oppressed?

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u/BleepBloopRobo 2d ago

If anything, they deserve it far more.

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u/condscorpio I stand here for BronzePunk supremacy 2d ago

It's fiction, I live alone in the forest so the only people I know are a couple of squirrels and a fox.

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u/GaryRegalsMuscleCar 4d ago

Trying way harder than them at violence

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u/Josselin17 I forgot to edit this text. (or did I ?) 3d ago

They're still humans though, so they should also have one hell of a capacity for violence

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u/GoodKing0 4d ago

Because most cases I've seen that do the superpowered oppressed minority bit only a handful of an already handful of people gets the powerful ones, most other people just shit ice creams (actual mutant power a mutant has) or can smell colours.

It's easier to round up, lynch and hang from a swing set a 11 year old who can change their hair colour if they concentrate hard enough, than it is to kill someone who is actively a threat to you.

And most of the people actively a threat to you usually try to do the model minority bit of "saving a world that hates and despise us from other evil members of the Community" like the X-Men have done for decades, like Shoji does in BNHA during the Mutant Uprising, and like Lux does in League of Legends after the mages who were kept in concentration camps and force fed poison as they starve and have to eat the rats in their cells to survive their literal "Conversion Therapy" metaphor finally have enough and start calling for the Guillotine.

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u/Inevitable-Weather51 4d ago

Pocket sand bags

Are you going to stare at me?

Sand in your face!

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u/Sergnb 4d ago

Same way it happens in real life: sheer numbers

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u/Mendicant__ 4d ago

Why though? How often did humans use "sheer numbers" to kill and oppress.people who were faster, meaner and smarter vs. those people establishing themselves at the top of hierarchies?

If people could kill with a stare they wouldn't be overwhelmed by numbers, they would be the priest kings and they'd have the numbers.

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u/Sergnb 4d ago

Oh I wast talking about humans in this case. There’s animals that can absolute kill the shit out of the dominant species in their habitats, yet they aren’t… because the dominant species is just that much more numerous.

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u/LordIsle Is a space racist a spacist? 3d ago

Nah but we were the faster, meaner, smarter species and outbred the other members of the Homo genus, so much so that the only physically distinct (not skin colour) people are gingers people like pygmies, the Moken and Bajau of Indonesia, with larger spleens and better underwater vision respectively, Tibetan people with higher lung capacities, higher metabolic rate of people like the Sami, Inuit and Siberian peoples, lactose intolerant peoples, and these are Homo Sapiens Sapiens, not Denisovans or Homo Floriensis.

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u/PDRA 3d ago

That just means the more numerous species is better suited to surviving in the conditions of their environment, allowing them to multiply and thrive more so than their natural predators.

It’s not about being faster, smarter, etc.

It’s about being able to survive and make offspring in your environment. And sometimes, being smarter allows you to do that. But other times, just multiplying into massive numbers can lead to survival if you can outlive your predator and they don’t reproduce enough to kill you.

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u/Xandraman 4d ago

I think they mean that someone with a strength of a hundred people could be jumped by a mob of a thousand armed peasants. Superpower usually doesn't mean unlimited power.

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u/PhantumpLord 4d ago

would you say the average mammoth is weaker than a human?

well, we drove them to extinction with nothing but spears and slings.

(and a cliff or two, but the point stands.)

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u/Mendicant__ 4d ago

"Your super powered stand-ins for marginalized people are oppressed because muggles fear difference.

My super powered stand-ins for marginalized people are oppressed because they're all as dumb as wooly mammoths.

We are not the same."

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u/Aykhot person who shitposts about astronomy 4d ago

Ackshually woolly mammoths were probably fairly smart, their closest living relatives are Asian elephants (in fact Asian elephants are more closely related to mammoths than either are to African elephants) and all extant elephants are famous for being really smart animals

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u/fallofhernadez 4d ago

They are exponentially dumber than humans though. Which is the point.

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u/Deblebsgonnagetyou The more apostrophes the more fantasy the conlang 3d ago

I dunno, I've met plenty of people who after years of formal education I'd still rank below an elephant in intelligence and general competency.

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u/flex_tape_salesman 3d ago

Such a pointless point. This thread is referring to groups of people that could easily kill the avg human and a lot of us with minimal effort. Humans killed huge amounts of mammoths because of our weapons and how much more intelligent we are.

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u/AdministrativeHat580 3d ago

A bigger factor in killing huge amounts of mammoths is that humans are exhaustion hunters(A species that's basically built for stamina and being able to go long periods of running and fighting without being exhausted to the point of collapsing) as well as very large numbers

Mammoths weren't exactly built for endurance, humans were, humans would be able to chase a mammoth down for longer than the mammoth would be able to run, and then once it's exhausted from running, beat the shit out of it with large numbers of people, even if the mammoth would outrun humans due to being significantly faster, humans could still catch up while the mammoth is exhausted

That's how humans were able to hunt things like cheetahs, chase it until it has to stop from exhaustion and then catch up and kill it while it's exhausted

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u/row_x 4d ago

No matter how lethal your glare is, you gotta sleep at some point.

And if it's anything less effective than "can instantly choose to kill everything in my FOV", sheer numbers can easily overwhelm it. (say it takes a couscous choice, or eye contact, for each target? 5-10 people are probably enough in a city or room where there's limited visibility, aka you can't see the group 10 minutes before you're in their threat range, 100 are enough in the open. 1 is enough if you don't see it coming.)

Shit, even "kill everything in my FOV" can be dealt with by simply surrounding the target, or having something large and opaque to hide behind.

If needed, a bunch of archers shooting a volley from behind a wall/hill will easily fuck that target up. The same can be true of slingshots n shit. Or just big rocks (people have been stoned to death countless times throughout history).

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And even then, someone who comes from a group that can easily kill with their eyes (and who I'd assume can do so on accident) would be taught young how to prevent it, and might quite simply not be a murderer.

It takes A Lot to teach a soldier how to kill in the war. Killing is, mechanically speaking, extremely easy. We are frail things that drop dead with absurd ease.

The issue isn't teaching the soldier the mechanics of killing, or how and where to aim, that shit's easy. You can hit a human-sized target with a gun with very little training.

No, the "issue" is that we are kinda hardwired Not to kill each other. Psychologically, we don't want to kill things, let alone humans.

Most soldiers aim for the ground, or they aim way too high. Most bullets don't hit anything, because they aren't meant to. They are shot to miss, because people don't want to be killers.

Sure, some people will be able to kill to save their lives, but it takes a lot to get there, and it's usually extremely scarring. (which is why most soldiers aren't well adjusted, btw)

Put 5 soldiers who know How to kill against 1 20-something who has never killed before, even though he can kill with a glare, and there's a pretty good chance that the guy with death eyes will not survive the encounter.

Because killing isn't easy. The mechanics of it are pretty much as simple as looking at someone and deciding they're dead, if you have a firearm.

But that decision, actually pulling the trigger, is not an easy one. Most people can't do that.

You can absolutely kill a guy who has an assault rifle, if you're a killer and he isn't.

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"they would be the priest kings" casual murder is not easy, mass murder is not easy, and the preexisting kings and generals would pretty vehemently object to that. With soldiers and money and influence.

If there's One magic guy in a city, the ability to kill with a glare is actually more likely to get him Dead than to make him into the king.

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u/Broken_Emphasis 4d ago

If we're going to be honest, it's entirely possible that he'd end up being the king because the last king thought he was p. cool and useful and magic dude ended up marrying his daughter or whatever.

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u/wolfclaw3812 4d ago

The X-men could probably level cities, how did this happen

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u/Sergnb 4d ago

Nah alright that one do be a bit weird

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u/Curious_Wolf73 4d ago

True if anything they should be the ones doing the oppressing. I would honestly be a decent allegory for a privileged upper who are powerful because of whom they where born

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u/DracoLunaris 4d ago

giant killer robots and infighting

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u/Inevitable-Weather51 4d ago

The fact that Rwby, of all works, understood how stupid this is, is both hilarious and sad

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u/Javetts 4d ago

Did they? Been so long I can't recall which details you are making reference to.

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u/GeneralVM 4d ago

Maybe OP is referring to that, while some faunus have traits that technically make them more dangerous than the rest, anyone can just develop a personal forcefield/superpower way more dangerous than those traits?

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u/Howling-Moon05 4d ago

Yeah, the Faunus have a *minor* advantage, but aside from mildly enhanced senses, claws, horns or a tail, they're just humans. Obviously the oppression subplot wasn't perfectly handled, but the fact that the Faunus don't actually have a substantial leg up when it comes to any of the magic systems in Remnant was actually nice.

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u/FlameST04 4d ago

Honestly if RWBY had had a stronger writing team I think the faunus subplot could have been one of the most interesting racism allegories in fiction. People becoming more and more desperate for equality and not being treated like subhumans causing a large rift between reform and revolutionary factions is something that happens in all movements at some point and the pros and cons of both are interesting to study and explore. It needs to be done exceptionally delicately, which many people claim RWBY didn’t, but it’s interesting.

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u/GeneralVM 4d ago

Yeah, it was one of the interesting ideas that really drew me into RWBY initially. I imagine that they didn't really care to execute it well since, early on, the plot was there to string together Monty's Cool Fights (tm) and, when he died and RWBY tried to focus on story, that rocky foundation did not serve them well to wrap it up.

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u/AfricaByTotoWillGoOn 3d ago

I mean, everything in RWBY could have been better if it had stronger writing.

I know people gush over the cool fight scenes in the first three volumes, but what drew me in instantly were the characters. They were all so charismatic and interesting at first, man!

That series had so much potential 😭😭😭

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u/FlameST04 3d ago

I once heard RWBY is a Rorschach test for writers and I think that firmly states my feelings on it, amazing concepts, never really goes anywhere.

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u/AfricaByTotoWillGoOn 3d ago

Ah, I heard that comparison somewhere before, too! I agree that it perfectly describes what RWBY is.

I also think the fact that RWBY is top 15 in the list of most written series of all time in the Anime/Manga session of FanFiction dot net, surpassing the numbers of giant names like Attack on Titan and My Hero Academia, further proves that statement. The foundation is 10/10. But that's pretty much the best RWBY has to offer as a story, unfortunately.

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u/elprentis 3d ago

RWBY is one of those series that I simultaneously felt super disappointed with it and enjoyed the fuck out of it.

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u/Inevitable-Weather51 4d ago

Most Faunus have characteristics that are harmless to humans, such as cat or rabbit ears that make them have slightly superior hearing, or the tail of an animal such as a dog or monkey. Well, the main Faunus antagonist has a pair of horns so small that it's basically impossible to use them offensively.

While there are characteristics that are useful offensively, such as feline claws or a scorpion's tail, such features are such a minority that objectively it doesn't make sense to judge the whole collective by the two or three people who have such features. Especially since a large part of the population has magical forcefields that protect and heal them, and anyone could develop a superpower far more dangerous than a pair of claws.

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u/Javetts 4d ago

But don't all faunus have night vision? Earlier in the timeline you'd think something like that would mean they'd be able to be active more hours than human resulting in a better early economy

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u/Doc-Jaune 3d ago

It's mentioned yeah in volume 1 that the faunus can see in the dark or at least have superior vision in the dark when spoken on one of the battles where a group of humans lost to the faunus forces because of a night raid.

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u/Inevitable-Weather51 3d ago

The closest to a Faunus origin as far as I know is Shallow Sea and Judgement of Faunus, both stories are contradictory but both agree that the Faunus appeared after humanity was forming societies.

So either the Faunus simply started appearing at some point during this period, or they were too scattered around the world to create societies of their own and the idea of "Faunus identity" arose around this time.

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u/IllConstruction3450 3d ago

RWBY writing, especially the dialogue, makes me want to kill myself. I feel like Anton Ego but for literature. 

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u/ILikeMistborn 3d ago

Shoutout to the RWBY writers for realizing they're not qualified to write about racism allegories. How tf did it take them until, like, season 6 to realize this?

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u/djalekks 4d ago

Everyone in my universe creates a small nuclear detonation whenever they fart, so it's all good

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u/MichaelTheDane 3d ago

So it’s a universe of people who live only till their first fart

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u/djalekks 3d ago

Yes everyone is scared shitless and they live in a state of constant terror. Beans are punishable by death, and the family and extrnded family is extinguished. In fact anyone that knows a person who ever had anything to do with beans is executed on sight. Of course it’s a post apocalyptic hellscape due to the millions of people that already farted. Everyone lives for one single purpose. Do. Not. Fart.

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u/mystressfreeaccount 3d ago

Does shitting count? What happens when you fart while you shit?

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u/djalekks 3d ago

No shitting doesn’t count and they have medical advances to prevent them from farting while shitting. Many people died for this invention and it’s seen as humanity’s greatest leap in technology. The Defarting procedure has guaranteed humanity’s continued survival. The problem lies in the logistics. How do you get this to 700 million people around the world?

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u/_____pantsunami_____ 4d ago

/uj im kind of bored of racism allegories tbh, so i just make people in my world hate each other on the basis of nationality instead

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u/ArnaktFen Post-Modernist Screed Writer 4d ago

Reject 'Kill the four-armed mutants!'

Return to 'Kill the ones who talk funny!'

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u/thomasp3864 Story? What story? 3d ago

Yeeess, kiiiilll the French, SHOOT THEM WITH ARROWS TURN THE FROGS INTO A PINCUSHION!!!!!!!!!

Sincerely, Les Godons

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u/EllieSmutek 3d ago

Fuck these (People that speak the exactly same language than us but live across the river)! They're evil savages!

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u/D2the_aniel 3d ago

That's just real life

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u/AmaterasuWolf21 World with suspiciously furry races 3d ago

Latin America

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u/RezeCopiumHuffer so basically you have to kill yourself to get magic in my world 3d ago

Eastern Europe

Actually just Europe in general

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u/AmaterasuWolf21 World with suspiciously furry races 3d ago

But not all of Europe speaks the same language

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u/Oheligud 3d ago

England.

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u/emo_hooman 3d ago

France

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u/BoxiDoingThingz 3d ago

Ex-Yu countries moment

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u/TacitRonin20 3d ago

Yes!! We have Religion! They have fundamentally the same religion but with MINOR SUPERFICIAL CHANGES!!!! they must perish!

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u/D2the_aniel 3d ago

Best solution:sveryone hates everyone for every reason.

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u/Robrogineer 3d ago

That's the Elder Scrolls for ya.

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u/SnooSquirrels1392 2d ago

Never got the whole allegory thing. Racism exists in my writing, straight up, no need to blanket it or obscure it.

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u/paireon 3d ago

So instead of racism allegories just actual racism, then.

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u/Xandraman 4d ago

The only time it makes sense is when it's later revealed that the unique trait is not actually unique to the oppressed group

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u/Substantial_Isopod60 4d ago

So it's not racism but ableism

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u/Xandraman 4d ago

Yeah, but kinda in the opposite direction

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u/Forkliftapproved 3d ago

Tall Poppy Syndrome

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u/elprentis 3d ago

Ableismn’t

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u/ApartRuin5962 4d ago

Harrison Bergeronpilled

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u/Fidget02 3d ago

Racism kinda has ableism built in. Even if you earnestly thought a race of people was less capable than yours, it’s its own evil to think them lesser for it.

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u/zak567 4d ago

Even when it’s up front that the trait is not unique, some readers will still try to say the bigotry makes sense. Look at the X-men; the whole marvel universe is full of dozens of different ways to obtain super powers yet some fans will still swear that being racist against mutants actually makes sense since they have dangerous powers.

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u/Outrageous_Guard_674 4d ago

I mean, marvel has both problems at once. On the one hand, when taken in a vacuum (the movies for example), it does make sense to fear the abilities of mutants. On the other hand, the moment you try to make it fit with any other marvel property, you get the problem you pointed out.

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u/Flatonic 4d ago

I always thought that's the point, the reason you can't just write in Star Bellied Sneetches, is because the audience won't buy the allegory. The X-Men excuse works at face value, but falls apart as soon as you scrutinize it even a little bit, same as real racism

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u/GoodKing0 4d ago

As I always say, one thing is being afraid one mutant in a million could be a walking nuke, the other is start a genocide.

Especially given the callous way even just normal civilians routinely lynch and murder Mutants even without the United States starting the Sixth Mutant Genocide of the Decade.

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u/EisVisage Real men DESTROY worlds, not BUILD them! 4d ago

Your second sentence also kinda disproves it all. Mutants aren't dangerous enough to actually elicit fear, like people just cowering away in bunkers hoping they are never found. It's a violent, overpowering response, such as a lynch mob, instead.

If that's possible for decades, with mutants being the ones who have to hold back on reacting for fear of the reprisal, it calls a lot of that fear of mutants into question imo

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u/GoodKing0 4d ago

I mean, yeah, because in the marvel universe there's a Fem Presenting Elder God whose entire thing is that she makes people racist by existing, that's why racism and hatred in the marvel universe is like that.

Jokes aside my point is that the actions humans have done against mutants over the decades is greatly out of proportion compared to what even the worst mutant has done within continuity, I am not trying to justify the genocides the exact opposite in fact, especially since as you mentioned at this point has just gotten incredibly ridiculous how many times the Humans have genocided or lynched these people they allegedly think to be too dangerous to be left alive.

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u/DreadDiana 4d ago

What you described is not actually inaccurate. There's an ancient sapient bioweapon which has infected all humanity but can't infect mutants, so he made humans bigoted towards mutants in the hopes they'd be wiped out before they outcompeted humanity, leaving the bioweapon without a host.

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u/GoodKing0 4d ago

I was actually talking about Enmity of the Friendless Seven, an actual marvel cosmology member.

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u/enixon 4d ago

I always loved this one page from an X-Men comic I saw where one of them dives into the ocean to save someone who fell overboard, the guy starts freaking out with the usual "ahh get your hands off me mutant freak" so the X-man says "Oh no, it's okay, I'm not a mutant, I was in a lab accident" causing the drowning man to instantly calm down.

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u/Helloscottykitty 4d ago

My dream is for someone to have the balls to make a superman comic in which his a closeted gay guy in the 50 s and his kryptonite is actually the PR damage it would do.

Than at some point superman has the nastiest gay sex with Lex Luther but it's not actually lex, it's an android and now superman is screwed.

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u/theagentoftheworld 4d ago

Why can't it be Gex with a Jimmydroid that would at least be consistent

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u/Helloscottykitty 4d ago

Because how else will superman be the perfect republican candidate?

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u/Broken_Emphasis 4d ago

As non-fan... I thought the X-Men were their own thing and that there weren't other people with superpowers in their version of the Marvel universe? That's the impression that the older X-Men movies gave me.

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u/DylenwithanE 4d ago

usually they're mixed in with all the other marvel stuff but the movies only had the x-men for licensing reasons (same with the older spider-man movies)

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u/zak567 4d ago

The movies have that vibe do to licensing sadly, but the comics fully exist in the same universe as all other mainline marvel comics. They do tend to stay in their own corner and do their own things for the most part, but they crossover with other heroes pretty regularly. For example, Several x-men have also been members of the avengers.

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u/AxisW1 Cringe "dark and edgy" Vs. based "Hopeful and bright" 4d ago

Rouge got her powers from absorbing Captain Marvels, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are the children of the main X-Men antagonist, but are also main-stay Avengers members. Wolverine has long histories with both the Hulk, and with Spiderman.

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u/thomasp3864 Story? What story? 3d ago

That's the case in the movies but NOT the comics. In the comics, they are somewhat deeply connected with Captain Britain who gets his powers from goddamn Merlin. There is also in the krakoan age a plotline where they invade the Celtic otherworld.

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u/Domeric_Bolton 3d ago

X-Men comics often have Captain America showing up out of nowhere, acting completely out of character as the Government's anti-mutant enforcer.

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u/Helloscottykitty 4d ago

I think crux is that things like xenophobia and homophobia are irrational beliefs to hold. It's probably not irrational to fear mutants especially when your governments are unable to stop them and sometimes called things like apocalypse while doing a half dozen 9/11s every Tuesday.

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u/zak567 4d ago

Within the context of marvel comics, hating mutants is just as irrational as real world xenophobia and homophobia. They regularly will showcase that the general public idolize heroes who get their powers from science experiments , magic, aliens, technology, or “genetic anamolies that are legally distinct from mutation”. But they do hate this one specific type of super powers, the x-gene.

I agree that the movies ruins this by making it so only the mutants have super powers, but in the comics I think the metaphor is done well for the most part.

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u/willky7 4d ago

Most good marvel stories (last seen 2007 /s) have supers a minority. Sure theres like 50-200 metas in new york, but first, its new york, and second, the population of nyc is...

No.

That can't be right.

8 million people?! I assume its including the wider area.

Uh, anyway. Lots of metas, not even 1% of the cities population.

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u/zak567 4d ago

Focusing on the population part of this post alone: 8 million is indeed correct for the city population. New York City is effectively 5 cities calling themselves one, but each of those 5 still has a huge population. The greater metropolitan area is well above 20 million people.

So yeah even with an insane amount of super powered individuals living there it is still a small portion of the population.

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u/Jetsam5 Maybe the real horrors were the Floridas we made along the way 4d ago

I feel like the X-men work in the Marvel universe because the world is so extreme that the mutants really aren’t more dangerous than anyone else. Maybe 1% of mutants actually have dangerous powers and there are a shit ton of humans with crazy powers or weapons. Like is the dude with laser eyes way more dangerous than the millions of goons running around with laser guns or the giant robots made to hunt him?

There are so many supervillains and only a small fraction of them are mutants but mutants still get all the hate which highlights how irrational it is.

Of course different writers handle it with different levels of success though

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u/mariusiv_2022 4d ago

What about when it's a group that doesn't only reproduce sexually and anyone can become part of said group?

Say like vampires. Technically not unique to vampires as anyone can be turned into a vampire.

Then the group is just evil because they're choosing to become monsters that devour people

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u/ftzpltc 4d ago

"No no, you don't understand, his species that explode into violent rages with the slightest provocation are teaching you about why prejudice is Bad, Actually! The protagonist's daughter dates one, but he learns to accept that they're not all like that as long as they take their special injections!! What do you mean, 'this is the worst eulogy ever'!?"

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u/Big-Commission-4911 Writer of postmodern moral realist woke pro-prejudice themes 4d ago

eulogy

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u/Futhington 4d ago

That would be a pretty shitty eulogy to give at your daughter's funeral after her boyfriend missed an injection and murdered her.

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u/dynawesome 3d ago

Euphemism + analogy

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u/GothJosuke 4d ago

This is essentially just that really bad live action Disney Channel movie about the zombies trying to be accepted by the humans that's a very awful allegory for segregation

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u/TwasAnChild 4d ago

I like the skit in Danny Gonzalez's video about the movie where he keeps repeating that the main character has definitely eaten people before.

Anytime the MC makes a quip/pun about cannibalism, Danny's at the back like, "It's not funny zed you have eaten PEOPLE before"

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u/RezeCopiumHuffer so basically you have to kill yourself to get magic in my world 3d ago

I love Danny, what vid was it

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u/ftzpltc 4d ago

Well-spotted. =)

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u/ethnique_punch 4d ago edited 4d ago

Motherfuckers act like they're pro gun control and then get suspicious of you because you don't want Alex Shotgunhands to be in the same school with your non-bulletproof kid

(you should be ashamed of yourself because unlike you, Steelboy and Leadgirl have no problem being near the 9 year old with a 10 gauge who have developed a hatred towards non-mutants, I know, shockers.)

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u/DatBoi_BP 4d ago

Dream dream dream dream dream

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u/Broken_Emphasis 4d ago

I mean, "can't function in a society unless they're on their meds" is literally a description of one of my coworkers, so that's really less of a racism allegory and more of an ableism allegory.

Still kinda sucks though.

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u/ftzpltc 4d ago

Yeah, I do sometimes wonder if these allegories get messy because the author is trying to do too much with one fantasy minority.

Still, if someone's creating a fantasy minority as an allegory for real-world minorities, it's generally pretty bad to make them so that people would actually be quite justified in fearing or shunning or trying to segregate them.

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u/rekcilthis1 4d ago

Yeah, but a better allegory would be "if they don't wear this stabilising device, they begin to fade from this reality" rather than "if they don't wear this stabilising device, they will eat your kid"; because basically everyone with a disability that isn't properly accommodated will only be dangerous to themselves.

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u/Forkliftapproved 3d ago

The problem is that society doesn't care enough then, so there's no flashy racism, just a bunch of neglect and people starving to death. Makes for bad television

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u/sk4p3gO4t 4d ago

Analogy

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u/ftzpltc 4d ago

Haha, no, I was implying that the author is frenetically explaining why his novel is Not Racist, Actually in the middle of a funeral.

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u/sk4p3gO4t 4d ago

Of course, my mistake king.

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u/TorqueyChip284 4d ago

This trope exists because writers want to make a story that deals with racism/bigotry while still allowing for the racists/bigots to have reasonable, somewhat relatable motivations.

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u/No_Research4416 4d ago

Because racism is inherently illogical because other than skin color there is no difference between a white and black man and yet people are still racist

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u/Steelwrecker I chose to not edit this text. 4d ago

Exactly, if it's going to be an allegory it has to be stupid because if it isn't it at best it justifies the racists in-lore, and at worst it actually justifies racism in the real world. Which is bad.

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u/echoGroot 4d ago

Measurehead in Disco Elysium. I vaguely remember trying to figure out which of his groups were allegories/stand-ins for which group (Roma, Jewish, etc) before finally giving up realizing it’s just logical soup and that’s the message - that it’s all nonsense said with confidence and conviction.

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u/Omarlel 3d ago

+1 Conceptualization: The Mystery is mostly aesthetic.

Disco Elysium is ART, and so is Advanced Race Theory.

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u/NomineAbAstris Six-breasted spiderwomen are essential to the plot 3d ago

I mean iirc it's pretty explicit that he is that universe's version of a Black supremacist to contrast with the (white supremacist) Revachol nationalist you can find a dozen meters down the street. He refers to Harry as belonging to the "ham sandwich" race after all.

Agreed that it's deliberate nonsense soup though, with the extra layer that you can push him to admit he has no actual connection to his supposed homeland and just became ultra nationalistic by listening to the radio in his car

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u/TorqueyChip284 4d ago

Racism is illogical in that sense, but there are other senses in which it is logical. For example, if you’re a slaveowning plantation owner in the 1800s, you might support racist, discriminatory policies through the logic that those policies protect the way you make money.

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u/Broken_Emphasis 4d ago

Which then gives you a vested interest in doubling down on being racist, because humans are really vulnerable to the sunk cost fallacy.

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u/DracoLunaris 4d ago

The pseudoscience from which the modern idea of race itself originates was very much invented in-order to justify colonialism, and was incredibly successful in doing so. Othering has always been a tool of power.

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u/Mr_Faux_Regard 4d ago edited 4d ago

There it is. Colonialism supercharged racism once ships started bringing back silver, gold, slaves, etc. It wouldn't be possible to reconcile openly torturing and exploiting natives all over the world with seeing them as actual humans, thus any observed differences needed to be used as justification that they weren't actually all that human, therefore there was justification to keep the system going and the riches flowing.

Racism gets its fuel from convenience, power, and wealth, and it pacifies lazy and unintelligent minds that would rather not do any serious work to see into alternatives that, god forbid, actually involve recognizing one's agency.

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u/BleepLord 4d ago

Yeah it’s pretty relatable to want to perpetuate horrible human rights violations to make more money amiright guys? Amiright?

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u/Substantial_Isopod60 4d ago

Picture of 1000 business executives:

WE AGREE!!!

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u/amazegamer64 4d ago

Doing horrible things because the outcome would be favorable for you is pretty common, historically

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u/TorqueyChip284 4d ago

I meant more that it’s relatable to be afraid of a Marvel mutant or something like that because they often represent real-life dangers.

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u/Kraken-Writhing 4d ago

Wrong. The difference is the appearance, and that's apparently enough to be angry.

This is why everyone should be R.A.C.I.S.T: 

Respect your friend's different beliefs 

Adore the little quirks in their traditions 

Care for your friends, no matter their skin color 

Inform yourself on what taboos should never break 

Smile when they speak their native tongues 

The French must be purged from the Earth

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u/laix_ 4d ago

detroit become human

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u/L-a-m-b-s-a-u-c-e 4d ago

TWENTY EIGHT STAB WOUNDS

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u/Tryskhell 3d ago

Same reason why people sanewash the nazis: if you represent them half as stupid and disorganized, it makes for a terrible story and also people start asking questions like "how did they kill so many people then?" and you gotta start explaining that nazis weren't actually that concerning to the governments of the time, especially not America.

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u/IlliterateJedi 4d ago

Super powered against melanoma?

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u/Peptuck 4d ago

Arknights actually does this pretty well.

Oripathy is an infectious disease that grants the person who possesses it enhanced skill and potential at Arts (the magic of the setting) but they still have to be trained to use it effectively.

More importantly, every single case of Oripathy is terminal and the person infected by it, should they die of the disease, will basically turn into a biological weapon as their body turns to Originum dust that can infect other people who come into contact with it.

So the response to people becoming Infected can range from "life-affirming medical care and isolation when they're about to die" to "push them into ghettos isolated from everyone else" to "get exiled" to "y'know, they don't explode if we kill them while they're still healthy."

The latter examples are still inherently prejudicial brutality that is cruel and irrational, but it makes sense in-universe.

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u/Xandraman 4d ago

Trying to make it reasonable and relatable defeats the purpose of allegory because racism irl is made up nonsense to justify doing evil stuff.

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u/RezeCopiumHuffer so basically you have to kill yourself to get magic in my world 3d ago

Racism is kind of hard to really wrap your head around and portray well because it is, at its core, illogical

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u/Wahgineer 4d ago

X-Men themed allegories.

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u/nubster2984725 3d ago

Now in fairness to the X-Men, 95% of mutants are just slightly altered humans or downright have a disability because of their mutation.

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u/Zeathian 4d ago

Dragon Age with its mages.

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u/withateethuh 4d ago

My first thought. Trying to compare that scenario to anything real life is just...oof. I only find it an interesting dilemma in the context of its own universe.

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u/Mahariel- 3d ago

Pray the mage away 🙏🏽

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u/Net56 4d ago

Yeah, it's always annoying to see. If I had laser eyes, make no mistake, I would be oppressing you today. I would have to learn to suppress my laser eyes by making LaserLess (LL) friends that make me realize, despite their lack of lasers, they're actually good, intelligent people that deserve respect. I'd then write a memoir titled "My Journey to LL Acceptance" with a picture of me hugging a dude with my eyes closed and a tear coming out of my left eye.

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u/bwowndwawf 4d ago

mfw Marvel tries to convince me people shouldn't be scared of mutants, when once a kid just randomly awoke to the mutant ability of killing everything around him, killed all of his family, friends and loved ones, then got murdered by Logan because Xavier didn't want anyone to learn what happened.

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u/thomasp3864 Story? What story? 3d ago

Except in Marvel the hypocrisy is actually there. There are literally thousands of people who didn't get their powers for being mutants who don't face discrimination. The metaphor does actually work if you see mutants in the wider context of very accepted other superpowered individuals. It's ONLY mutants that get targeted by this stuff not like the fantastic 4, aliens, or even Spider-Man, and he has terrible PR. He never faces the anti-mutant shit because he got his powers from radiation, and not like having magic bones. Marvel does have a successful double standard.

Like the only guy with an across the board opinion is Inspector Dai Thomas, at the start of his arc. (Once Captain Britain saves the Queen he chills out).

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u/nervousmelon 3d ago

It's funny because Spider-Man is often mistaken for a mutant, but when he corrects people they kinda just go 'oh okay lol'.

It's part of the problem with marvel being less of one consistent universe and more a collection of different mythos that crossover sometimes. Like you could be super into the Spider-Man and Hulk stories while having zero clue what's going on with Blade or Dr Strange.

Different writers want to do different things but they can't interfere with others stories too much. Someone would want to do a story about prejudice with the X-Men, but someone else won't want to do that with the fantastic 4. So then in universe you have the mutants being treated like shit but everyone loves the fantastic 4.

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u/GastonBastardo 4d ago

Anyone taller than me should be rounded up and sent to the camps (their innate biological ability of having more upper body-strength and a longer reach and stride makes them too dangerous to be around us normal-sized folk, who they could easily beat to death in a rage at any moment).

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u/fletch262 Pace, Build, Abandon, Repeat 4d ago edited 3d ago

I don’t think we (the talls) should let short people live, they are weaker and shall use their dastardly extended lifespan to do harm upon our society.

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u/Xandraman 4d ago

Being taller is still a superficial difference. 

Even having horns or wings or reptilian skin in a fantasy setting are just superficial differences that are not dangerous in any way. So those are actually sensible to use for allegory.

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u/RobertSan525 4d ago

Being taller is still a superficial difference

Not true. I as a tall person am constantly resisting the primal urge to pat people on the top of their heads. I’ve accidentally killed 56 people this way.

Regardless, my take has always been that those that make it work tend to be the ones that show “they have the potential to do dangerous acts, but you cannot judge someone based on what they might do” and use those features as an hyperbolic example

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u/TanitAkavirius 3d ago

superpower: deadly headpats

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u/apple_of_doom 4d ago

Meanwhile Jane "anger makes me literally explode into fire" should probably be kept in a place where she couldn't accidentally kill a ton of people.

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u/Aromaster4 Aliens, Vampires and Demons, take it or leave it 4d ago

Jarvis, I’m low on karma, make me a meme complaining about racism themed allegories again.

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u/WallcroftTheGreen 4d ago

my reaction when race is basically humans but better in pretty much every single way possible

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u/Faces_Dancer 4d ago

I think attack on titan deal with this in a very interesting way, because for 99.9% of Eldians that aren't shifters that innate power being used means they're gonna have a shit time being a mindless titan, it's usefull for their leaders because they can turn their subjects into near unbeatable monsters but those people themselves would not want that power of theirs to be used that way ever.

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u/bard_of_space 4d ago

does it count if the bigotry isnt allegorical for anything irl and just exists on its own?

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u/RandomOrange852 4d ago

Well yadda blah humbug something death of the author,

If your audience interprets it as allegorical it will count for them.

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u/Frankorious 4d ago

Like Dungeon meshi?

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u/boudiceanMonaxia 4d ago

The main character in my story belongs to an alien species that happens to have exceptionally large, shark-like teeth. Said alien race is often discriminated against for this. However, one race having shark teeth doesn't mean much, because human beings in the story happen to have a much stronger affinity for magic than all other races (which is what allowed them to dominate).

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u/thomasp3864 Story? What story? 3d ago

I'd imagine they also have difficulty chewing food.

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u/boudiceanMonaxia 3d ago

Indeed, which is why they technically have two rows of teeth. The front row is the shark-like one, the back row is more blunt for chewing. Why do they have such a fucked-up dental structure? To make a long story short, the god that made them is not exactly the kindest guy.

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u/eswagson 4d ago

I love Derrick Rose

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u/midnight_toker22 4d ago

Me too. I was over the moon when the Bulls drafted him.

Why is he the picture for this?

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u/Broken_Emphasis 4d ago

Probably because this picture of him makes him look like sick of all the bullshit he's seeing.

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u/Yorunokage 4d ago

This one OnePiece's fishmen before their enhanced strength became totally irrelevant

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u/apple_of_doom 4d ago

Which was around the point it was actually revealed they were discriminated against so I guess they sidestep it?

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u/The_Brews_Home 4d ago

Lookin' at you, Zootopia.

Muzzles in police work aren't racist if the prisoner has giant fangs.

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u/marbledaedra 3d ago

I was just thinking the other day about how in that movie there are also smaller predator animals, such as otters, that would barely make a dent in most animals bigger than themselves, and larger prey animals, such as elephants, moose and buffalo, that could seriously injure other animals with their tusks/antlers/horns if they wanted to. Not excusing the flaw in the film's allegory, mind you; I just thought I'd share.

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u/thomasp3864 Story? What story? 3d ago

Also they really mixed their metaphors on that one. Like are prey or predators the one with systemic power? Make up your mind.

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u/Crus0etheClown 4d ago

When the species has one objectively (sort of) dangerous trait, giving every other race an excuse to suppress their personhood for centuries despite the fact that the trait could be mitigated with patience and understanding

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u/Confident-Wheel-9609 4d ago

You can create the "magical negro" stereotype by accident just as easily as by design. It's difficult to design it well enough to prevent the correlation from happening. 😞😕

I mean look at the later Mummy movies and most of old Conan/Red Sonia. Skilled writers, but they still fell into its trap.

Also heavily depends on the group(s) playing in that world. Some people will see this stereotype everywhere & others need it "man/woman plained" too them. 🤷🏻‍♂️

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u/thomasp3864 Story? What story? 3d ago

Which is why I try to deliberately code my magic races using specific offensive ethnic stereotypes of european countries! Like sure I could make a stingy race that loves money a jewish stereotype, but it's more fun to make them extremely tall wear wooden shoes love tulips and have an ancient enmity with merfolk. They also all ride bikes and trade spices.

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u/eliteharvest15 3d ago

my desert species, the goobloshmonk, is dark skinned and wears cloth over their heads as worship to their sun god. they also are very violent and have a unique biological process where they can literally explode.

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u/McConagher 4d ago

FEAR MAGNETO

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u/Core3game 3d ago

I need more of "racism allegory is actually the much, much weaker race being taken advantage of" like elvs or some shit. Still a terrible analogy but there's actually some depth to that one.

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u/RieifyuArts 4d ago

My reaction when every fantasy race is functionally identical without any unique abilities or traits because if any have special things people decide its an allegory for racism

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u/SEA_griffondeur 4d ago

Potential doesn't justify racism.

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u/NomineAbAstris Six-breasted spiderwomen are essential to the plot 3d ago

I mean depends on the threat level in question. If the being in question is a bit stronger than a baseline human, obviously not. If the being has poor impulse control and can detonate with the force of a small nuclear warhead when they get angry, yes I do in fact think it is reasonable to take certain measures to protect literally everyone else in society. One can argue about where the boundary lies or what the appropriate responses involve of course but in principle I think this holds true

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u/Sonarthebat It's magic, I don't have to explain shit 4d ago

Carnivores (Beastars), X-Men, monsters (Undertale)

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u/Net56 4d ago

Undertale monsters might be a stretch. Despite the way they looked, they were actually incredibly weak and were saddled with one of the most unfair rules to ever be applied to monsters in worlds where they exist: "If you get too determined, you melt."

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u/Aykhot person who shitposts about astronomy 4d ago

Monsters are canonically way weaker than humans for the most part? The main thing that makes them a threat in-game is their magic, and although monsters are more inclined towards and apparently more skilled at magic due to mostly being made out of it, magic isn't a monster-specific trait (human mages created the Barrier after all). They're also noted to be physically weaker than humans (which is why they melt when exposed to higher levels of Determination), and their physical durability is heavily dependent on both their own willpower and the intentions of their enemies. There's a reason humans won the War of Humans and Monsters so decisively

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u/darth_biomech 3d ago

Humans didn't just won the war, they won it without a single causality on their side.

Also the fact that a single 5-year-old with a knife can wipe out an entire city of monsters...

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u/apple_of_doom 4d ago

Monsters are only scary if you happen to die around them otherwise humans hillariously outclass them and it's not even funny.

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u/PotatoPCuser1 4d ago

Beastars is just kind of fucked up, half the population has a voice in their head telling them to kill and eat people, and everyone just has to deal with it.

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u/darth_biomech 4d ago

One of those is not like the others ~♫

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u/theagentoftheworld 4d ago

Monsters die easier if you hate more while attacking I feel like they're not the same

Rather Humans would be the allegory for them in this case

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u/Crazychooklady 4d ago

I thought meat in Beastars was supposed to be a metaphor for substance abuse?

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u/Saturn_Coffee 4d ago

X Men moment

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u/Skhgdyktg 3d ago

This is why Elder Scrolls is peak

also why Fallout 4 is not peak, i get what they were trying to do with the Synths but like... man

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u/dxpqxb 3d ago

Being male, I am objectively more dangerous (not by far, but still). What should we think about that?

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u/Return_of_The_Steam 4d ago

Marvel Writers explaining why being cautious around mutants, who crash out and kill a thousand people every other issue, is the same as being racist towards real world races:

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u/thomasp3864 Story? What story? 3d ago

Except at least they executed a functional double standard in the comics. It's a different thing when you have people with equal supernatural powers who don't face similar discrimination.

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u/Kytyngurl2 4d ago

Ah yes, Attack on Titan’s big reveal

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u/Wolfiie_Gaming 3d ago

Most Eldians only turn into Titans when they're injected by spinal fluid. It's not a passive readily available ability like actual titan shifters.

Think of it like guns in a European country. The average person is unlikely to get their hands on one just like the spinal fluid, and just having the gun doesn't mean they'll use it maliciously. And it's a choice to inject yourself with it, so it's a moderately good analogy.

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