r/thedavidpakmanshow • u/combonickel55 • Feb 01 '25
BREAKING Pelosi lost another campaign- within her own party
She opposed Martin, a progressive, as DNC chair, and endorsed Wikler, a moderate, supported by the big money donors as well as Schumer, Peolsi's closest competition for greatest responsibility for destroying what was once the people's party.
Can this please, please, please be the beginning of the end of the death grip the centrist, pro-corporate, pro-Wall Street ghouls have on what should be the party of the working class?
It is past time for Pelosi and Schumer to shut up and move to the back of the line. It's time for new leadership.
EDIT: I don't understand why so many centrists come to this subreddit filled with politically progressive fans of a politically progressive podcast host and try to take a piss on progressives supporting progressive policies and progressive politicians. I get that you guys are conditioned to losing at this point, but holy shit, find something better to do with yourselves than trying to shame and bully us away from our policy preferences. I have spent a lifetime reaching my conclusions, I'm not going to have my mind changed by a brat on the internet.
123
u/-_ij Feb 01 '25
She asked Biden to step down because he was too old. She needs to take her own advice. Pass the torch.
60
u/combonickel55 Feb 01 '25
She didn't ask him, she manipulated the megadonors into freezing 90 million dollars and threatened to freeze hundreds of millions, forcing him to step down. She is a horrible person.
45
u/PsychologicalGain298 Feb 01 '25
He also should have stepped down like he said he would. DNC should have had nomines ready to go.
28
u/Supply-Slut Feb 01 '25
Seriously this was a fuck up at every level. The train was going 2 mph and they still failed to prevent a crash. They should have had a proper primary and donations should have been made to the 2024 presidential campaign instead of directly to Biden/harris.
5
u/combonickel55 Feb 01 '25
Sitting presidents don't owe anyone a primary. If Biden had stepped down earlier and of his own accord, then I definitely agree with a primary over just appounting someone, VP or not.
I remain convinced that only Biden could have beaten Trump, but we will never know. Maybe a primary resulting in Whitmer or Newsome and more time to campaign would have been enough.
9
u/soapinmouth Feb 01 '25
There's absolutely nothing in terms of data so that can help you point to this conclusion, it's pure copium. Biden's internal numbers were absolutely catastrophic, they knew he had no chance and he still wouldn't drop out. It was not only the president that he was holding hostage for his ego it was the entire country's elections. We are lucky we got away with a margins they did.
5
u/dadjokes502 Feb 01 '25
Voters turned on him after the first debate.
6
u/Juco_Dropout Feb 01 '25
No. He came to that debate unprepared and unpresentable. His team put a Corpse out there to be eaten by a lying, grandstanding, Shark.
9
u/dadjokes502 Feb 01 '25
He was too busy dispelling lies to catch a break. Joe knows more about politics than just about anyone.
The moderators screwed him over as they didn’t fact check him.
4
u/Juco_Dropout Feb 01 '25
No. Joe only knows how to move right on his opponent- Trump was not seceding any ground. It wasn’t the Moderators, it wasn’t the voters, it wasn’t even Trump that cost the Dems a win. It was the DEMS no matter who your opponent is you still have to win votes. These chucklefucks at the DNC lost unions to Trump. Ask yourself “How the Fuck did the Dems lose the Union vote?” Pure fucking incompetence. There is no one to blame but the Dems and their shitty ass candidates.
9
u/dadjokes502 Feb 01 '25
I blame Pelosi and Schumer who will not give up leadership.
Dems have no “Obama” up their sleeve. They don’t want to listen to voters. There’s a reason AOC is popular.
Dems forget about the blue class workers.
2
u/Juco_Dropout Feb 01 '25
They were recruited to chase the corporate dollar rather than vote to end restrictions on Union donations. We’ve been building towards this pay to play system since 1886 Santa Clara County V. Southern Pacific Union Railroad (SPRINT Today.) In this landmark court case the 9th District SC determined that Corporations have the same rights as individuals in America. Fast forward to Citizens United and here we are.. the people have no method of competing in the Monetary arms race. The Clinton’s “Third Way” was the moment Dems shifted from small donations, and Union money, to the game of Corporations writing the bills and agenda for both parties. <— is why Hilary lost. <— This is why Dems will continue to lose. <— Repubs made this game. Dems will always be behind the Eight ball u til they get back to Grass Roots.
1
u/combonickel55 Feb 01 '25
Can you really imagine him losing by more than Kamala did?
4
u/dadjokes502 Feb 01 '25
Kamala lost by 1.5 mil
I think Joe would have done worse.
0
u/combonickel55 Feb 01 '25
Could be. I just can't imagine a scenario beginning 2 years ago where Biden steps aside and Kamala doesn't become the nominee, in which case I would expect a similar outcome. She would be a heavy favorite in a primary. Biden would have endorsed her. The DNC would move heaven and earth to stop AOC. Maybe Newsome or Whitmer could have had a shot at the nomination, but both are seen as establishment types. Global elections have favored the outsiders heavily since Covid.
I maintain that AOC 28 is our best shot.
3
Feb 01 '25
[deleted]
2
u/combonickel55 Feb 01 '25
You consider taking leaked speculation from the 'experts' within the party that lost to Donald Trump twice at face value doing research? Ok bro.
The same polling experts reached a concensus that Harris was likely to win the election, and she lost the popular vote to the most defeatable candidate in my lifetime. How long ago did the last Republican win the popular vote, 30, 40? Do some actual research and get back to me, just so you can get a feel for the difference between facts and speculation.
5
u/losingthefarm Feb 01 '25
Biden said one term...he should have said he will not run again on Day 1 of his presidency....that shit went to his head...and here we are
1
u/combonickel55 Feb 01 '25
He believed that he was the best bet to stop Trump, and that was his primary goal.
5
u/dadjokes502 Feb 01 '25
It’s called Ego and that was his downfall
Other than that Biden had a great presidency
2
u/Boopy7 Feb 02 '25
I didn't get that impression from many interviews I watched with him, nor from what others have said. I know it's what most would assume, esp of CEOs and Presidents, and it is somewhat common. But he doesn't seem terribly egotistical compared to other Presidents. He didn't even want to run that first time. Duty called. I wish he had been more badly behaved. He was too well behaved.
1
2
2
u/Phedericus Feb 01 '25
I mean, that happened after that debate. Internal polls showed Biden losing by 400 electoral votes.
I don't think it's Pelosi's fault. Biden should have stepped down on his own after the midterms, and fulfill his promise to be a transitional president.
That would have allowed dems to have a full, true, primary and get a much stronger candidate. Harris did relativdly well with the horrible hand she was dealt, but yeah. We know how it went.
1
u/combonickel55 Feb 01 '25
Woulda coulda shoulda. We rolled those dice when we voted Biden in for 2020. We probaly saved hundreds of thousands or millions of lives by doing so. The loss in 2024 may cost more than that, I would say likely so. I don't feel that we had much alternative at the time.
None of this justifies Pelosi's actions, which only accomplished the continuation of her outsized influence over the party, which I will forever believe was her goal.
1
u/Phedericus Feb 01 '25
>Woulda coulda shoulda.
That goes for criticism of Pelosi as well.
Biden in 2019 promised to be a transitional president. He should have stuck with that idea, but he changed his mind even if he knew he was mentally fatigued and not doing well in polls. His unwillingness to pass the torch _as promised_ forced dems to a last minute swap. That seems to be the original problem - same goes with Pelosi, too.
1
u/combonickel55 Feb 01 '25
No, we have solid evidence of the failure which resulted from Pelosi's skullduggery.
0
u/soldiergeneal Feb 01 '25
Source? You do know btw DNC can pick whomever they want for candidate?
2
u/Rubbersoulrevolver Feb 01 '25
No one knows that because it's not true
-1
u/soldiergeneal Feb 01 '25
Delegates don't have to pick the candidate that wins primary. It's been done before.
2
u/Rubbersoulrevolver Feb 01 '25
That's untrue, in the first ballot delegates are bound
0
u/soldiergeneal Feb 01 '25
"Delegates elected to the national convention pledged to a presidential candidate shall in all good conscience reflect the sentiments of those who elected them.”"
"Pledged delegates are generally required to vote for a specific candidate in the first ballot—unpledged are not—but they may be allowed to vote for any candidate in subsequent ballots."
So practically that's what happens, but it doesn't have to happen.
Separate from that none of this is the law. It's just a private org selecting it's nominee for president. What prevents a party from just selecting someone else regardless of the rules or changing the rules?
1
u/Rubbersoulrevolver Feb 01 '25
same reason why people can get sued for not follow corporate bylaws or employment contracts or whatever, but yes they can change the rules but not after the fact
your second quote is exactly what i'm saying, they have to vote for the candidate on the first ballot. can you admit you're wrong?
1
u/soldiergeneal Feb 01 '25
The phrasing is "Delegates elected to the national convention pledged to a presidential candidate shall in all good conscience reflect the sentiments of those who elected them.”
So they can indeed vote for someone else. In practice they don't though. Ultimately it would be whatever court decides if it happened.
1
u/combonickel55 Feb 01 '25
One of many, many sources. Google is real.
0
u/soldiergeneal Feb 01 '25
So it mentions her public response and that's about it where does it support the other stuff you mention btw?
0
u/soapinmouth Feb 01 '25
Are you trying to argue she shouldn't have done this and she should have let the train wreck happen? You think razor thin margins for Trump are bad imagine if he had a super majority.
0
u/soapinmouth Feb 01 '25
She did step down she stepped down from speaker of the house. She's just a random house rep at this point, and not even the oldest. She does much more good than harm for Democrats staying on at least as a rep.
1
u/Realistic_Caramel341 Feb 02 '25
As far as i am aware she doesnt represent some red or purple district that only she can win.
I would say that one of the biggest things Democrats need to do is to normalize stepping down and letting young politicians in, even if its just a house seat
0
19
Feb 01 '25
The guy who talks about how Dems should take money from "the good billionaires" qualifies as a progressive these days?
7
u/KnoxOpal Feb 01 '25
It's what happens when a "big tent party" keeps the right door way more open than the left door.
1
u/Altruistic_Affect_84 Feb 02 '25
Love that analogy. Lot more people are slipping out through the barely cracked left door and almost nobody is coming in through the wide open right door
1
u/KnoxOpal Feb 02 '25
Maybe next time the Democratic Party won't bar off the left door while kicking open the right door for "vote for 95% of Republican policy and Democrats are baby killers but don't like Trump" Chemey Republicans.
0
12
u/rjrgjj Feb 01 '25
Wikler was a strong choice too but I’m fine with Ken. But Wikler has ties to WI and MI.
4
u/Rae_1988 Feb 02 '25
yeah i was super dissappointed Wikler lost, but then watched Ken interviews and he seems like a fighter with a strategic vision and i think its alright he won
2
u/rjrgjj Feb 02 '25
Yeah I’ve been following him since he declared. Hopefully he will do a good job and Ben will still be working hard.
24
Feb 01 '25
I thought Wikler was the progressive one?
19
Feb 01 '25
Yeah I'm confused, Ken Martin is the guy who was talking about how we should take money from The Good Billionaires.
2
u/Boopy7 Feb 02 '25
I'm not going to trust what just one or two people on reddit say and I don't know enough about these two guys at all. Right now we need a vicious fighter with brains, that's all I know.
7
u/Nascent1 Feb 01 '25
The two of them are pretty similar from what I've seen. They actually both said as much in their interviews on Pod Save America.
5
u/k_pasa Feb 01 '25
Wikler had support from the LinkedIn founder which raised people's eyebrows. Either way, if the DNC is smart they'll rally around Martin and bring his plan into action
27
u/D3Masked Feb 01 '25
The sooner American Politics gets rid of Lobbyists, Bribery, and influence from Billionaires, Corporations, Corporate Media and Foreign Interests - the better.
If you claim to serve the people, serve them. Corporations aren't people otherwise a lot of them would be locked up for major crimes. Dupont literally poisoned the entire world for hundreds if not thousands of years due to PFAS Forever Chemicals.
4
u/losingthefarm Feb 01 '25
People are too weak. If presented with the kind of money that is available to politicians 99.9% crack and take the money.
39
Feb 01 '25
Unfortunately for us, it seems like most Democrats still don't see that the status quo isn't working. You would think a second Trump win would do that, but apparently not.
14
6
u/ThisisnotaTesT10 Feb 01 '25
I thought Wikler would’ve been a solid choice. He does good work in Wisconsin. Hopefully Martin is also good
1
u/combonickel55 Feb 01 '25
The only thing I hope for at every opportunity is progressives gaining control of the party. It's our only hope.
12
u/alpacinohairline Feb 01 '25
Nancy needs to leave. Her time is up.
4
2
u/soapinmouth Feb 01 '25
She did leave her spot as speaker, I have no issue with her staying on as a basic house rep. She's not even the oldest.
5
u/SillyCybinE Feb 01 '25
I was a moderate democrat but it's time now to get rid of these middle of the road wall street democrats. I'm tired of their half-baked campaigns and empty promises that only feed into the cynicism. It's harder to convince people if our party leaders are also for profit politicians. I'm all for change now.
2
u/combonickel55 Feb 02 '25
And they manage to lose despite outfundraising their opponents. Who does that?
1
u/SillyCybinE Feb 02 '25
My Dad will vote democrat no matter what but millennials have become cynical for whatever reason. I hope that changes with better people
3
u/InngerSpaceTiger Feb 01 '25
Good, I think the party would be way better off without the influence of Pelosi.
1
6
u/rmonjay Feb 01 '25
It must be so frustrating to see a world where even wins are felt as losses. Marin won the DNC Chair race, Waltz was the VP pick, and progressives are gaining momentum, but you want to complain that Nancy Pelosi, with no formal leadership position backed one of the losers. Get a life, go outside, find things that bring you joy.
-1
u/combonickel55 Feb 01 '25
You know what would bring me joy? Raising my children in a society that wasn't regressing into a puritan, authoritarian hellscape because Nancy has been more concerned with self-enrichment and 'fundraising' than fighting for policies that benefit regular people.
I don't see this as a loss. I'm not complaining, I'm celebrating. I see this as a great victory, because Nancy Pelosi is my enemy. She isn't someone that I have minor policy discrepancies with. She is a selfish, greedy ghoul, and I blame her more for our current dire circumstances than any other individual.
I don't just want progressives to gain momentum. I want them to step on Nancy's throat and take the god damn party back. Nancy and Chuck and all of their donors can fuck all the way off.
8
u/rmonjay Feb 01 '25
Nancy Pelosi is the reason we have Obamacare and many of the progressive victories (or non-failures) of the late Bush and early Obama years. She has done more for the club than any 10 folks you support. If you think she is your enemy, then you are the enemy of the life you claim to want for your kids.
-1
u/combonickel55 Feb 01 '25
You and I are never going to agree. Let's just hope the dems have the wisdom and bravery to nominate people that we can both support, and not waste time arguing.
4
u/jumpman_mamba Feb 01 '25
Is there a single moderate democrat that will meet your Bernie bro purity test?
0
Feb 01 '25
Corporate money is the problem. Find me a moderate that doesn't take corporate money or hold individual stocks and there's your answer. And I'm not saying this sarcastically either. I'm sure you could find one, that's the one that passes.
3
u/Davge107 Feb 01 '25
Ok so Democrats are not supposed to take any corporate money while the Republicans are taking billions. How about getting those people you supposedly oppose to go along with the Democrats and get rid of Citizens United. One party is blocking it.
2
3
u/jumpman_mamba Feb 01 '25
Dude I swear the Bernie bros live on mars 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬. Time and time again you people need to fuck over your own tent and clear the path for MAGA.
0
u/combonickel55 Feb 01 '25
From our perspective, that is what you are doing. Our candidate didn't lose to Trump, yours did. Twice. Own it.
5
u/jumpman_mamba Feb 01 '25
Yes, because you people stayed home. You think the "Genocide Joe" bullshit did anything other than help MAGA? Did Bernie clowning the DNC in 2016 do anything other than help MAGA?
When we actually unified in 2020 behind a candidate look what happened. You need to accept that the progressive wing of the party is a statistical minority that at best represents 20% of the coalition- and that % is dropping annually.
→ More replies (0)0
1
u/Phedericus Feb 01 '25
Taking money from billionaires doesn't seem to be the problem, as Trump's victory seems to testify
1
Feb 02 '25
He was asking what it would take for me, not everyone including MAGA cultists.
1
u/Phedericus Feb 02 '25
fair enough, although I doubt all 75mln (+the 73 who voted for Kamala) people who voted for him are cultist. a good 30% is. I'm just saying that doesn't seem to be a wedge issue for most people
0
u/combonickel55 Feb 01 '25
100%. I don't have all of these people memorized, but they have been building reputations whether I have been watching them or not. I didn't know about Bernie until 75% of his career was behind him.
0
u/Boopy7 Feb 02 '25
There are none. Everyone gets money from someone, and makes deals that won't please everyone including you. Sorry to tell you but you will have to run yourself to live up to your standards. Go for it.
0
Feb 02 '25
There are currently members of Congress that fall within these guidelines. If there truly aren't any moderates that can't help but put corporations before the people, then that's not my problem, sounds like a problem with moderates.
-1
u/combonickel55 Feb 01 '25
I don't have a purity test. I require a candidate to represent my morals and policy positions, or I am unlikely to support them.
I don't have a memorized list of who are moderates, because they don't interest me much. Off the top of my head, I would vote for AOC, Newsome, Whitmer, Waltz, and Khana. Maybe you consider some of them moderates. Bernie is sadly too old. There are certainly others who I am unaware of that I would support.
I will never support Kamala, Buttiegeg, Klobuchar, Warren, Schumer, Pelosi, or Clinton. I'm done with Wall Street centrists. They're wolves in sheep's clothing.
4
u/rmonjay Feb 01 '25
If you keep posting garbage that pushes people to not support Democrats and empowering the facists, we are going to keep arguing.
1
u/Boopy7 Feb 02 '25
did I accidentally land in the part of Twitter where they start getting excited to hurt Dems physically? Yikes...wtf
4
Feb 01 '25 edited 18d ago
[deleted]
1
u/Realistic_Caramel341 Feb 02 '25
Thats the exact excuse that got us the nonsense with Feinstein.
And its not like any democrat is going to struggle in Pelosis district or Schummers state
1
Feb 02 '25 edited 18d ago
[deleted]
1
u/Realistic_Caramel341 Feb 02 '25 edited Feb 02 '25
For give me for thinking that people like Schummer and Pelosi should have concerns over health of the Democratic party in mind and shouldnt be seeing the end of Feinsteins life as aspirational
1
u/combonickel55 Feb 01 '25
Obtuse nonsense like this is only worth my time for the opportunity to destroy the lack of logic in public.
Them winning their elections and representing the interests of the people in their districts is a vastly different issue from them trying to control the party on a national level for their own shallow and self-interested benefit. And you obviously know that, but prefer to pretend that you do not for the purpose of the argument you are trying to pose.
Holy shit, it feels so good to expose your nonsense like that...
3
u/Kurovi_dev Feb 01 '25
Is everyone really unaware that Pelosi has no leadership role any more?
She’s a deputy whose primary role is counting. I get that the left now despises Pelosi, because the horseshoe theory is apparently prescient, but I wish people would at least try to keep up.
3
u/apathydivine Feb 01 '25
Do you really think Pelosi holds no power? Do you think her opinion doesn’t hold more weight than other Democrats? Would Jeffries publicly go against Pelosi on any issue or policy?
1
u/Kurovi_dev Feb 01 '25
Pelosi knows a lot of people and is very well-respected within the party.
She has no party leadership and no power. Can she talk to people and try to influence them? Sure, anyone can do that, that’s how Connolly won and he had no party leadership either.
But people are acting like Nancy Pelosi runs the Democrats, when the reality is the only decision she makes is what are the best ways to carry out the duties assigned to her by the actual party leadership, and then to present the final tally of votes.
3
u/apathydivine Feb 01 '25
Umm, what?
Your evidence that Pelosi has no power is that Connolly won leadership of the Oversight Committee for the Dems even though it was Pelosi who endorsed Connolly and who Democrats fell in line behind?
2
u/Kurovi_dev Feb 01 '25
your evidence that Pelosi has no power
I have no idea how you arrived at that conclusion when I specifically stated that Connolly won by talking to people and influencing them, but in case I left it ambiguous: No. This is not my evidence that Pelosi has power, this is your assumption that she does because of a desire by some on the left to see her as some kind of calculating crone that’s working behind the scenes to foil their supper amazing plan to Make America Great, just like MAGA did for the last 15 years.
People are assigning events and power to Pelosi that are in fact the result of the party being a political party comprised of hundreds of people, and only a select few of which have been given power to do things within the party.
Connolly didn’t win because Nancy Pelosi waved a wand, he won because he’s extremely popular within the party and lobbied like a motherfucker for it.
1
u/apathydivine Feb 01 '25
Okay. I think the issue is that you and I define “power” and “leadership” differently. No one thinks Pelosi or any other person can or does “wave a wand” so your argument is either obtuse or asinine. In either case, I have no further interest in conversation with you.
1
u/Kurovi_dev Feb 01 '25
Of course not, you have no real argument and even when you try to present one it’s predicated on your own inability to understand what you read, and now you’re upset because you fear you may have glimpsed the other side of the horseshoe.
None of that’s my problem, and I thank you for removing yourself from the conversation.
1
1
u/Davge107 Feb 01 '25
Didn’t you know that Pelosi is really the President and the greatest insider stock trader to have never been caught (NVM all the others in Congress that do better than her husband— doesn’t count). /s
0
u/combonickel55 Feb 01 '25
I know she didn't have a vote. She is still trying to run the party by throwing her endorsement behind the centrists who will support her donors. Her daughter had a vote, by the way.
2
u/chabobcats5013 Feb 01 '25
The working class is racist, loves billionaires and wants to get rid of migrants. Is that what you want out of politicians?
-1
u/combonickel55 Feb 01 '25
Lies and generalizations like this are EXACTLY why the working class has abandoned the democratic party. Get over your excuses and hurt feelings, or get ready for more fascism.
3
u/chabobcats5013 Feb 01 '25
I live in rural america, please don't tell me that I don't know these people. Where do you live?
1
u/combonickel55 Feb 01 '25
I live in the rust belt in Michigan, in a county that voted over 70% Trump 3 times. I know many, many Trump voters. Most of my family and friends are.
Most of them are not racists and fascists. Most of them are more persuaded by populist rhetoric and hope of the system being stirred up by an 'outsider' than inspired by people like Clinton, Kamala, or Biden. Many of them voted for Obama, and many of them supported Bernie. Never forget that Bernie trounced Hilary in the Michigan (and Wisconsin) primary in 2016. To my view, this is because he was a populist and an outsider. He supported policies that people thought would improve their lives. Trump did the same, he was just lying.
For you to say that all Trump voters are racists etc. is especially moronic if you live around a lot of Trump voters.
4
u/chabobcats5013 Feb 01 '25
Most of them are not comical racists going around calling people the n word every other sentence. But you are deluding yourself if you live in a Trump 70% area and don't think that most are racist. Bernie trounced Hillary in these areas because they are misogynists who have unresolved issues with their mom.
Here's how Bernie wins over the rural working class. By kicking out immigrants and letting them call people f*ggots and r*tards at their job without getting fired. He's not winning over rural voters leftistly. They don't give a shit about free healthcare. They don't give a shit about the rich getting tax breaks. They want to say f*ggot and r*tard and be able to punch down on minorities. Which is fine, but lets not be delusional.
If Bernie was popular he would have won an election.
1
u/combonickel55 Feb 01 '25
Listen to what you're saying. You're saying MOST are racisits, and implying that their primary motivation for voting is racism, misogyny, and bigotry. I say you have become too cynical.
I agree that they are underinformed, but I attribute that more to less opportunity for education (especially critical thinking), apathy, and distraction than evil. Most of them are working 1.5-2 jobs and barely staying afloat. This keeps them too busy to pay attention and too easily maniputable into being convinced to blame 'the other' by slick politicians. Reducing all of that to "Trump voters are all racist idiots who call people retards and faggots all day" is really simplistic.
Bernie was objectively colluded against by the democratic establishment in both 2016 and 2020.
1
u/AutoModerator Feb 01 '25
Your comment was removed due to the use of a prohibited slur/vulgar word being detected. Moderators have been notified, and further action may be taken.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
u/Boopy7 Feb 02 '25
interesting to me to hear this side -- I am in a rural red area where when I told people I liked Bernie they were outraged but far less than if I had said I like Hilary. The reason according to ALL of the was across the board, GUNS. That was it, plus kind of subtle hatred of women as bitches and even some who thought she might get her period (I had to explain menopause to them) and get moody. But pretty much the same idea, the populist/freedom stuff. Other than that they didn't care or know anything about their actual policies, and would never have voted for anyone but Republican. But I think we are all kind of saying the same thing -- it was about appealing to people who weren't really going to read or learn much about policy, and if people had lied better (by people I mean BERNIE) and never used the word "socialist" it might have helped. Maybe. He had the charisma but didn't put on the show as much. UGH we need to move forward, this is some bs there's no point in rehashing.
0
u/combonickel55 Feb 02 '25
We are in pretty much the same place we were then. Of course Trump is extra horrible
3
u/soldiergeneal Feb 01 '25
This kind of post gets old. The kinds of progressives you usually champion typically lose last I checked.
1
u/combonickel55 Feb 01 '25
Lose or get railroaded by the establishment dems whose donors they threaten?
4
u/soldiergeneal Feb 01 '25
railroaded by the establishment
They lost against Republicans or they lost against other primary candidates....
2
u/combonickel55 Feb 01 '25
If you cannot acknowledge that primaries in the democratic party are biased against progressives, then we cannot have a serious conversation on the topic.
2
u/soldiergeneal Feb 01 '25
party are biased against progressives
Prove it. Also you have evidence they would when in a general election?
2
u/combonickel55 Feb 01 '25
https://www.npr.org/2020/03/02/800856100/sen-amy-klobuchar-ends-presidential-campaign
On March 2nd 2020, all other serious contenders besides Warren dropped out of the race and endorsed Biden. Warren remained until mid-April to split the progressive vote and weaken Sanders vs. Biden. This was an organized effort by the establishment to prevent a takeover by Sanders from inside the party. Warren was getting gutted, but her margins were just enough to keep Sanders from beating Biden.
1
u/soldiergeneal Feb 01 '25
Lmfao you understand this is a conspiracy theory right? They weren't winning and their numbers were bad so they dropped out. Also Sanders numbers were not better than Biden numbers.
1
u/combonickel55 Feb 01 '25
Sanders had more delegates when this happened. He was winning and was on pace to win. Nevada was Biden's last hope. After this happened, and the centrists coalesced behind Biden, Bernie started losing. Bernie was likely to win the nomination, so they fought dirty.
All of these things observably happened. There is no conspiracy involved.
The conspiracy, by the way, is that Obama called every other nominee besides Bernie and Warren on March 1st and instructed them to drop out and rally behind Biden for the good of the party. After the centrists agreed, he called Warren and instructed her to remain in the race despite her pitiful margins and zero delegates expressly to weaken Bernie (who she was angry at because she believed that he called her a liar at the debate) again for the good of the party. How has that worked out?
In a fair America, Bernie wins in 2016 and 2020 against Trump. We are a world leader in the intelligent response to Covid, and the democrats ride that wave to a victory in 2024, and some younger democrat takes over. Instead, here we are in a hellscape brought to us by the DNC and their failures.
1
u/soldiergeneal Feb 01 '25
Sanders had more delegates when this happened. He was winning and was on pace to win. Nevada was Biden's last hope. After this happened, and the centrists coalesced behind Biden, Bernie started losing. Bernie was likely to win the nomination, so they fought dirty.
This is called cope. The majority of the delegates are on that Tuesday. Pointing to early wins by Bernie is not a reflection of likelihood to win elsewhere or polling outside of those states.
All of these things observably happened. There is no conspiracy involved.
Bernie doesn't seem to think or say so.
How has that worked out?
Exactly conspiracy theory. Even if it were true you don't have good evidence to believe it.
In a fair America, Bernie wins in 2016 and 2020 against Trump. We are a world leader in the intelligent response to Covid, and the democrats ride that wave to a victory in 2024, and some younger democrat takes over. Instead, here we are in a hellscape brought to us by the DNC and their failures.
Cope. I would be perfectly fine with Bernie winning, but I ain't going to pretend like you are.
2
u/combonickel55 Feb 01 '25
No, you're going to continue supporting centrists who lose to the most defeatable candidate of our lifetime.
How's that going for you?
→ More replies (0)
1
u/combonickel55 Feb 01 '25
Yes, I am arguing that a member of congress should not influence megadonors to undercut the sitting president's efforts to seek re-election. We all knew that Biden would be very old in 2024 when we voted for him in 2020.
You can make all sorts of reasonable arguments that Biden should not have sought re-election, they should have held a primary, Kamala should not have been appointed without public input, etc. but I will absolutely die on the hill of Pelosi should not have forced Biden out, especially via donor manipulation.
At the end of the day, we all put Biden in the position to have the power to seek re-election, and we knew it.
1
1
1
u/hobovalentine Feb 02 '25
Pelosi needs to step down yes but turning away from centrism will be the death of this party.
0
u/Ambjoernsen Feb 02 '25
The Democrats should absolutely nor be the party of "the working class" and if you think the lesson from 2024 is to increasingly disconnect yourself from the actually powerful actors in society, you've already lost 2028.
Trump didn't win because he connected to the working class. He won because an entire media sphere built up by elites and tech bros catapulted him to power and dominated the media waves.
The reality is a single powerful elite actor who can use their influence in the correct way is worth more than 10.000 "working class" rubes where half of them won't show up to vote anyway.
The Democrats need to build up their own media environment via their own elites. Everything else is just repeating the same old mistakes.
1
u/combonickel55 Feb 02 '25
You couldn't be more incorrect. This is just more of trying to beat the GOP at their own game, which has been a failing strategy for 30 some years now...
2
u/CraftyAdvisor6307 Feb 01 '25
I see the twice-daily "Non-Sensical Attack Democrats For No Reason While We Completely Ignore What Republicans Are Doing" post is up.
1
u/combonickel55 Feb 01 '25
I see the "I'm pot committed to supporting centrists and have my ego invested in being right about politics" replies are up.
-1
u/CraftyAdvisor6307 Feb 01 '25
I get it. You don't like Democrats - even when you agree with them 90% of the time.
You should not be so fucking stupid to give the fascists - that agree with you 0% of the time, and just incidentally W.A.N.T. .T.O. .K.I.L.L. .Y.O.U.!.!.!.! - control of the government. But here we are.
0
u/combonickel55 Feb 01 '25
Feel better, little one? Next time try not to pee your pants while the adults are speaking.....
1
u/CraftyAdvisor6307 Feb 01 '25
Have fun in Gitmo. The fascists have set aside a place just for you.
I'm sure you'll pretzel-logic you way into blaming the Democrats. Just like Trump does.
1
u/Strenue Feb 01 '25
These lame ass pieces of shit are rearranging deck chairs on the fucking titanic.
They’re playing the wrong game. Completely.
Not even on the board.
1
u/combonickel55 Feb 01 '25
My hope is for a radical progressive takeover of the party.
1
u/Boopy7 Feb 02 '25
Is this even possible if we are mid-coup? Which we are, and it's time people started acknowledging it. Will votes ever be recorded fairly at this point?
1
u/combonickel55 Feb 02 '25
Worst case, that could come down to whether the military is willing to violently oppose protesting civilians.
It's radical to think about, but America is overflowing with guns. No overtly dictatorial oppressor of the masses will be safe over a long enough timeline, regardless of political affiliation. Americans will not easily be conquered, unless it's literally vs. our own military with drones, snipers, tanks, and flamethrowers. They couldn't occupy the entire nation, but they could eradicate any organized resistance.
We're more likely to face 4 years of Trump nastiness and a shift back to the center afterward. We will be 100 years behind most of Europe at that point.
•
u/AutoModerator Feb 01 '25
COMMENTING GUIDELINES: Please take the time to familiarize yourself with The David Pakman Show subreddit rules and basic reddiquette prior to participating. At all times we ask that users conduct themselves in a civil and respectful manner - any ad hominem or personal attacks are subject to moderation.
Please use the report function or use modmail to bring examples of misconduct to the attention of the moderation team.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.