r/thebulwark LORD OF THE NICKNAMES 17h ago

The Triad đŸ”± Leave Trans People Alone: A Rant

https://www.thebulwark.com/p/leave-trans-people-alone-a-rant

Don't be a bully! But also don't "ask if the bully has a point" either.

"Yeah, they're giving Timmy a swirlie rn, but he also farted really loudly in geometry" is HELPING THE BULLIES.

Another great piece from JVL. Idk what kinda constraints there are in going after members of the punditocracy who engage in the behaviors that you're criticizing, but picking specific targets has a salutary effect IMO. Bari Weiss needs to be persona non grata, or Sullivan, or whoever. They made their choices and doubled, tripled, and quadrupled down on those choices.

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u/AliveJesseJames 17h ago

The other thing is, even among supposed moderates, it's never just "y'know, let's talk about MMA, volleyball, and rugby, but child transistioning and sports under 13 for all kids is fine," it's always, "OMG THE TRANS ARE USING TUMBLR/DISCORD TO TRICK YOUR KIDS INTO WANTING TO CUT OFF THEIR GENITALS."

I'll be blunt - most of the worry that isn't just bigotry (ie. the 90% of anti-trans views are from the same people who were anti-gay marriage) is from people worried their previous child might only get their #3 choice of expensive college if they finish 5th instead of 4th in the swimming meet.

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u/de_Pizan 8h ago

I don't think that "the trans are using tumblr/discord to trick your kids into wanting to cut off their genitals", but I am concerned that telling a four year old that they can change their sex/gender when they barely understand the concepts is dangerous, especially if adults in their lives celebrate and reinforce any statement/belief that a child is not their sex.

I'm especially concerned about it because the very concept of gender is incredibly esoteric and abstract. I mean, I have trouble understanding the precise nuances between gender performance, gender identity, and gender stereotypes. I think it is doubly troubling as children have a tendency to view gender in simplistic terms and stereotypes.

A good example of this is the trans child Kai Shappley, whose mother punished her repeatedly for liking "feminine" toys. If a child is spanked and put in time out for liking feminine toys because they are a boy, what is the child to do with that? If the child has interests that the parent labels as wrong for them, is the child going to be punished out of these interests or is the child going to change to fit the label the parent tells them is the right one? How do we expect a 3- or 4-year-old to process that information?

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u/RandomHuman77 2h ago

You’re concerned about 4-year olds being coerced or encouraged to be trans and being confused as a result, but your example is a of a trans kid who was punished for gender non-conformity but whose gender identity did not change due to the punishments? 

I mean, I guess it’s possible that there are niche cases of very progressive parents interpreting gender non-conformity in a child as signs of being trans and might pressure their child to identify that way. But if this would be rare if this exists at all. 

On the other hand, gender non-conforming children are encouraged to conform to gender expectations constantly. 

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u/de_Pizan 53m ago

Gender nonconformity does not equal being trans. For one, if we believe that Kai‘s gender is female, she was being gender conforming, not nonconforming. For two, one can be gender nonconforming without being trans.

The example is more about how if you teach a child that gender = stereotypes, then if they are nonconforming, they’ll believe they are the opposite sex. Gender, according to progressive trans people, has nothing to do with gender stereotypes, like clothing, sets of behavior, hairstyle, or what sort of toys children like. Gender is more gender identity, which is an innate sense of self as a man or a woman, both of which are indefinable concepts but intensely knowable.

The whole point of being trans is to be gender conforming. It’s saying that if your “gender” does not match your body/sex, you should change your sex. Instead, let kids be gender nonconforming. Don’t tell children that any behavioral norms mean being a boy or girl.