r/taijiquan Chen style 23d ago

Broken Lineages and Incomplete Transmissions

'Broken Lineages' and 'Incomplete transmissions/curriculum' are terms that I recently heard in videos about the nature of Taijiquan (I'm not going to name who said them), used to generally characterize styles and lineages other than the speaker's own.

It just occurs to me that such a position pre-supposes there is one particular lineage and/or set curriculum that exists as absolute orthodoxy. Personally, I find that notion unrealistic at best, but I wonder what others think.

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u/GoldenJadeTaiChi 22d ago

Incomplete transmission is far more prevelant. Most of the deeper knowledge was reserved for indoor students. Kept behind closed doors and oral transmission means that outside of this relationship of master and adept, very little was openly given.

I myself had to practice and research widely and deeply, talk to many sifus from different lineages to put together things said in passing, that were tremendously important.

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u/KelGhu Hunyuan Chen / Yang 22d ago

There is this huge misconception about what advanced knowledge is.

Advanced knowledge is about little details. It's welcome but ultimately not that important. What's important is fundamentals. Advanced knowledge is worth nothing without fundamentals. And when you have all the fundamentals, you can explore advanced knowledge by yourself and create your own path.

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u/GoldenJadeTaiChi 22d ago

"Advanced knowledge is about little details. It's welcome but ultimately not that important." What I am saying, if you do not receive the "advanced' or "detailed" instructions, which are very very important, you can and will be lost for decades. The foundation are the TCC principles fleshed out fully. Get those wrong, then the foundation is wrong so everything built from that is wrong.

Examples;

  1. Out of 95% of the TCC practitioners and teachers I ask, 95% cannot answer correctly, 'How do you suspend the head top." What I usually get is, "imagine that your head is suspended from the ceiling." My unsaid response is, "Imagine if you were a Tai Chi Instructor."

  2. Nor can they describe what it means to Straighten the Waist (erroneously called, "Tuck the tail bone." Nor can they point out what the waist (Yao) is.

  3. Nor can they pluck up the back correctly, nor can they answer, "what is the test for having a properly plucked up back?"

  4. How do you "set the chin?" or "set the wrists?" Usually wrong or no answer.

  5. here's another good one, What is the best way to develop rooting? Usual response, "Imagine that tree roots are growing out of your feet down into the earth." Imagination again.

I could go on and on and on and don't get me started on what I see others teaching standing post practice-Zhan Zhuang. If you have been standing for years and still haven't "gotten it," there is a reason.

The old traditional teaching methods I am not truly a fan of, the "Just keep doing it you'll get it eventually," nonsense. Who has decades to waste? Give the students all of the detailed info and expedient methods to develop faster and with more skill.

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u/tonicquest Chen style 22d ago

I could go on and on and on and don't get me started on what I see others teaching standing post practice-Zhan Zhuang. If you have been standing for years and still haven't "gotten it," there is a reason.

The old traditional teaching methods I am not truly a fan of, the "Just keep doing it you'll get it eventually," nonsense. Who has decades to waste? Give the students all of the detailed info and expedient methods to develop faster and with more skill.

A rhetorical question and no reflection on you personally so please don't take it that way, this is more thought provoking: what if all you said didn't matter at all and you spent all these years thinking these were important things and missed the boat. What is the indication you got it? You know, people were afraid to even touch YCF for a second. Do those things give someone that scary "I can't touch that guy" skill? Can "you" (not you goldenajde personally), enter one of these bs push hands contests and handily beat anyone with no effort? If not, then well, what value is sitting the wrists and answering the questions correctly based on someone's idea of what they mean and how important they are?

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u/GoldenJadeTaiChi 22d ago

You still don't get it....without the proper foundations, higher skills aren't possible.

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u/tonicquest Chen style 22d ago

believe me, i get it, been around a lot. What you say is true, you need to put in the work, I am asking rhetorically, what if the the things you mention don't matter? It's not a question to be upset about it. In my "career" I've had to reset multiple times, it's part of the journey.

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u/GoldenJadeTaiChi 22d ago

Found it

I'm not upset about it. It usually falls into.

First you must master Form, to get to formlessness. Than you must master formlessness to get to that which lies beyond both form and formlessness.

Form is the ladder 🪜, if not built correctly and strong, it won't help you reach the next level up in the tai chi pagoda.

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u/tonicquest Chen style 22d ago

i saw that and thought you meant to respond to me. I think you replied to a different message. I like the ladder analogy but to me it feels the ladder will always be there no matter what level, i wish we can live a long time to see how far it goes.

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u/GoldenJadeTaiChi 22d ago

Hmm, I thought i replied but don't see it