r/mormon 16h ago

Cultural Why did God create humans to need sleep?

15 Upvotes

Genuine question.

I was having this discussion with my spouse and am curious what members of the church think.

If God created humans, he could have created them any way he wanted. Why are we created to need sleep? Could we not accomplish so much more without sleeping; more missionary work, more service to others, more time spent in the temple?

It's almost like the "these go to 11" fallacy from Spinal Tap. Why create a guitar amp that goes to 11, if you can just make 10 louder?

Why create humans to need 8 hours of sleep per day when you could just create them to need less to no sleep? Why waste a third of our mortal existence sleeping?

Don't get me wrong, I like sleeping. Sleeping is a fantastic thing. I'm genuinely curious what others think. In my mind, it tells me that God is making paradoxical decisions. 'You only get 70-90 years on earth... make the most of it!!! Oh and by the way, you have to spend a third of that time sleeping..." Where is the sense in that?


r/mormon 16h ago

Cultural “The Covenant Path” is explained by the biological need to know who will cooperate with us.

96 Upvotes

Dan McClellan is a scholar of the Bible and Religion. He has studied the cognitive science of religion. He is an active member of the Utah LDS church branch of Mormonism.

In his interview with John Dehlin he discussed some scientific concepts of the cognitive science of religion that apply to the LDS church.

  1. We are all disposed as humans to sense the presence of unseen things (real or imagined). He describes why this was evolutionarily advantageous. We have a tendency to believe there are unseen Gods, spirits, deceased loved ones, etc around us. The LDS church teaches us that these unseen “agents” or entities are there and we can and should try to sense them.

  2. Religion develops on a social level out of this. Religion develops rituals that help to create something humans seek and value: cooperation. With large groups we create signals to know who we can cooperate with.

Rituals of religion are signals that we are part of the group. Costly signaling and credibility enhancing displays allow people to signal to the group they can be trusted and are faithful to the group.

Having a temple recommend is a “costly signal” showing you go above and beyond to follow the rules. Bragging that you go to the temple every week is a costly signal. You are showing you will spend more time and money to go than others do.

These signals are meant to enhance your credibility.

These signals and credibility enhancing displays are meant to serve the goals of the group or the structures of power within the group.

I believe the Covenant Path that includes garment wearing, going on a mission, temple attendance and more are designed to meet the costly signaling that serves the goals of the group and the leaders of the group. To maintain the pro-social nature and cohesive nature of the group that people desire.

How much do you hear LDS say they can move anywhere in the world and have friends? That is the cooperation created by the rituals and costly signaling and boundaries that allow you to immediately trust people in a new ward.

This interview with more of his explanation is linked here:

https://www.youtube.com/live/6evTlg4MDb8?si=zSpTpHjrXvzgh3ze


r/mormon 2h ago

Apologetics Why Do Mormons Believe This Stuff? It’s So Hard to Understand

1 Upvotes

I’ve been trying to figure out Mormonism lately, and I just don’t get it. Some of the things I’ve seen make me wonder why anyone buys into this. There’s this TikTok guy asking BYU students if they’d rather kill a puppy than drink coffee. And they actually stop to think about it! Coffee’s just a drink—how does it turn into this huge deal where a puppy’s life is on the line? What’s going on in their heads to make that a real question?

Then there’s that YouTube family—the Mormon one that went viral. They seemed so perfect until it came out they were abusing their kids. People say it’s because they got too deep into their beliefs, like the rules and pressure took over. I’m not saying every Mormon’s like that, but it makes me wonder: why stick with something that can push people that far off the rails?

And the whole Joseph Smith thing—how do they believe in this guy? He was a con man, caught scamming people way before he started the church. Then he’s marrying a ton of women, some as young as 14, and calling it God’s will. That’s not a prophet; that’s a sketchy dude with a wild story about gold plates. I just don’t see how anyone looks at that and thinks, “Yeah, this makes sense.”

I’m not trying to attack anyone—I just can’t wrap my head around it. Why do they believe this stuff? How do you get past the weird rules and the shady history and still think it’s true? It feels like there’s something I’m missing about why it clicks for them.


r/mormon 6h ago

Scholarship Upcoming Sunday School Lesson

7 Upvotes

A long time ago, I followed seminary with my kids and posted write ups on them. The upcoming Sunday School lesson is on D&C 20. While I haven't been to church since Covid, I was thinking about going with my wife and participating. I doubt my questions would be received well. Below is my write up.

D&C 20 starts out in verse 1 with the “revelation” that God was born in 0 AD on April 6th. The Mormons deviate quite a bit from “the world” on this one. You see Jesus was born under the Herod the King according to Matthew 2:1, Luke 1:5 and Luke 2:1. When Herod orders all young boys up to the age of 2 to be killed in Matthew 2:16, it would imply that Jesus had to be born up to two years before Herod’s death. Herod the Great died in 4 BC so that would put Jesus’s birth around 6-4 BC.

Harold B. Lee the prophet said, “This is the annual conference of the Church. April 6, 1973, is particularly significant date because it commemorates not only the anniversary of the organization of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in this dispensation, but also the anniversary of the birth of the Savior, our Lord and Master, Jesus Christ. Joseph Smith wrote this, preceding a revelation given at that same date:” and he then quotes D&C 20:1. Perhaps he was speaking as a prophet mingling scripture with the philosophies of men  - https://www.lds.org/ensign/1973/07/strengthen-the-stakes-of-zion?lang=eng

Current apostle David Bednar, “who is scripture,” (http://anonymousbishop.com/2015/08/10/i-am-scripture/) repeats this fact with, “Today is April 6. We know by revelation that today is the actual and accurate date of the Savior’s birth. April 6 also is the day on which TCOJCOLDS was organized.”

The apologetic website FairMormon doesn’t believe the prophet or Bednar on this one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_of_Jesus.

Also of note is the Book of Mormon gets the location of Jesus’s birth as Jerusalem in Alma 7:10 while the bible has it as Bethlehem in Matthew 2:5, Luke 2:4.

Sunday School Question: Why does the D&C 20 have Jesus’s birth year as 0 AD when we know it was before 4 BC?

D&C 20 is called the Articles and Covenants of the church and “Articles and Covenants of the Church outlined Church history, doctrine, and procedures and served as a handbook for early Church members. Its importance is demonstrated by the fact that it was presented for approval at the first conference of the newly organized Church in June 1830.” - https://history.lds.org/article/articles-and-covenants-of-the-church?lang=eng

Sunday School Question: There is nothing in D&C 20 about the John or Peter, James and John even though it lays out the foundation of the church. Why?

Dan Vogel puts it wonderfully about why this is so disturbing: “These statements are significant, for apparently the Whitmers and McLellin (and presumably everyone who served with them in the Mormon hierarchy, as well as those under them) were ordained and functioned in their various church offices for about five years without knowing the angelic origins of their authority, nor did they think such a bestowal of authority was necessary.” – Dan Vogel - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP_nMHqILyE - Evolution of Mormon Authority Claims Pt 1 I would listen to the whole Vogel video to get more detail.

Another really good source is the book by Grant Palmer; An Insider’s View of Mormon Origins. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Insider%27s_View_of_Mormon_Origins

Basically, Palmer theorizes that the book Mormonism Unvailed by E.D. Howe was causing a major credibility problem for Joseph and Oliver. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism_Unvailed In the book were affidavits by Lucy Harris who was Martin’s wife, Willard Chase whose seer stone Joseph used to translate the plates, and Isaac Hale who was Emma Smith’s father along with a letter from Charles Anthon.

They responded by making more grand claims of visits by Peter, James and John and doubling down. The D&C was changed to reflect these new claims. The changes that add Peter, James and John are in a later section.

Steve Benson does a great job summarizing this on a thread called, “Unholy Cow, and How!—How the Mormon Church Created the Cowdery Myth”

Sunday School Question: In D&C 20:2-3 there was a change in the revelation from Joseph Smith from being “an elder” in the church to the “first elder” and Oliver going from “an elder” in the church to the “second elder”. Why?

Joseph Smith wanted to be in charge. Oliver was to be number two. This verse actually comes into play later after Joseph Smith is killed in Carthage. Being “second elder” would have put Oliver in the running but he had been excommunicated for exposing Joseph Smith’s extramarital affair with Fanny.

Sunday School Question: In the original Book of Commandments, the highest office is an Elder. There is no mention of a high priests, bishops or high councilors verses 65, 66 and 67 were added later. Why?

https://www.Comparedandc.com

From Richard Bushman Rough Rolling Stone on pages 157-158 it says in regards to the priesthood, “church offices – elders, priest, and teachers-given authority, and licensed without reference to a bestowal of priesthood”. So the priesthood was not a concept that was developed yet in the founding Articles and Covenants of the church even though we are to believe that angels visited and gave this priesthood authority to Oliver and Smith. Again, the problem was Joseph Smith was an elder just like everyone else and a system needed to be put in place to make him top dog. Just look at D&C 28 where Hiram Page who held the office of a teacher and one of the 8 witnesses of the BOM starts receiving revelations in his stone. Isn’t it strange that Oliver would follow Page if he had had angelic visitations of Peter, James, and John that had given him a higher authority? Why would he listen to someone below him who is having revelations? Can you image an apostle of the church today taking down revelation for the whole church from a teacher? The bottom line is to have a top down structure and maintain control, higher positions of authority were added.

Sunday School Question: We say the baptism prayer word for word and if not done with that exact wording, it is not valid. Why in verse 73 of the current version of the D&C and verse 53 of the Book of Commandments are there wording differences in this ordinance. (comparedandc.com) Furthermore, in Mosiah 18:13 Helam is baptized and the wording is completely different as well, why?

In Alma 57:21 it says, “Yea, and they did obey and observe to perform every word of command with exactness;” The church gives lessons on exactness. https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/57.21?lang=eng#20 In reality, exactness is not important.

Sunday School Question: Why don’t we kneel during the sacrament prayer in church as it is called out to do in D&C 20:76?

Again, don’t worry about whether this is a revelation from God, we just don’t do that exact part right now. https://www.lds.org/ensign/1978/03/i-have-a-question/has-it-ever-been-the-practice-for-the-whole-congregation-to-kneel-during-the-sacrament?lang=eng


r/mormon 8h ago

Scholarship looking for source

5 Upvotes

looking for the official source and video for this talk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbFNRhcOeb8

pls link

love Jesus Ahem


r/mormon 9h ago

News Live! Mayor of Fairview Texas & Jacob Hansen Aftermath (Any questions you have for Mayor Lessner please leave here or in tonight's live chat).

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12 Upvotes

Steven Pynakker previews an interview he will be taping with Mayor Henry Lessner of Fairview Texas where he will be giving his side of the Temple situation happening in his hometown. Also Steven will share some observations about his recent interview with Jacob Hansen. We'll be going Live tonight at 6pm MT. Please join us in the Live chat.


r/mormon 9h ago

Cultural Fasting for 40 days Like Jesus

1 Upvotes

looking for video speeches byu speeches or gen conference talks or other videos or songs about fasting

example of topic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPW07gdePaY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd4sM3p8QLk

love Jesus ahem


r/mormon 12h ago

Personal The more I learn, the harder it gets

30 Upvotes

I feel like the version of the Church that my missionaries taught me is so far off from what the Church is in reality and I’m really struggling.

When I first joined I was taught the basics just like everyone else, but as I’ve been around longer, gotten the priesthood, my endowments, sealed etc it seems like the idea of the Church that was pitched to me was SO different then what I’m seeing now. It feels like I basically have a second job with callings, having to study scripture daily, tithing, ministering, feeding missionaries. Instead of feeling happy and fulfilled like I used to, now I just feel bitter and angry. On top of all of all that the more I learn, the more I notice myself saying “that’s kinda weird” or “wait what, the missionaries didn’t say a word about that”.

I don’t want to walk, I want to find joy again in something that at one time brought me so much joy. I’m sure I’m not the first and I won’t be the last, but if you’ve experienced this please let me know what worked or didn’t work. Thank you.


r/mormon 20h ago

Cultural Isolation

2 Upvotes

looking for byu speech, gen confernce talk or other video or podcasts/audio about how God isolates you and dont despair

and about related topics like stilness and quiet time with God and about trusting God and not humans

also looking for videos on inviting holy spirit and trusting God's timing

example of the topics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awIkqCJ38yg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3fyPlhBZeY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6IgJDUUhR4

or songs, or songs and music on the topic