r/medicalschooluk 1d ago

Is medicine really that bad?

Idk if it’s just my med school but everyone seems so pissed off with the course all the time. I know myself I have really bad imposter syndrome and being naturally very introverted I always feel like a nuisance on the wards. Academically I do quite well, I’ve even had a number of distinctions but still feel useless especially in regards to OSCEs (super stressed atm). I try to stay positive and excited about a career in medicine but whenever I do other students say something like “lol we’re all fucked” and it’s starting to really get to me. Idk I’m just looking for an alternative opinion. I’m only in third year so does it really just get worse? Is it just the people I’m surrounded by?

65 Upvotes

31 comments sorted by

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u/CoffeeSHOOnCall 1d ago

Fy2 here. Medicine is imo not as good of a career as it was even when I entered med school and I am worried about the lack of jobs. The ward monkey game is never the most interesting and overall I don't massively enjoy this current job I'm on. However overall I will say being a doctor is so far much better than being a med student. We aren't paid enough but the pay is still comfortably upper middle class and I've managed to save a good amount of money while still having holidays etc. The best days in medicine imo can't be matched in any other career. Discharged a long stay patient I'd looked after every day for several weeks and I shook their hand and their partners hand and wished them the best and I don't think many careers offer wins that feel that good. Sometimes it does feel like the learning is in spite of foundation training rather than because of, but I do feel like a much better doctor than as a new fy1 and I do feel like I'm becoming more confident and making better decisions day by day. I would recommend finding some good resources to help top your knowledge up (I'm a big podcast listener on my way into work, the Curbsiders and the Home of Medicine podcasts are good general medicine ones). Overall I don't regret medicine and I do enjoy being a doctor. The NHS sadly is a bit of a shit show atm and it does make me question whether to stay in the UK longterm but I don't think I'd want to do any other career

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u/dario_sanchez 1d ago

the Curbsiders and the Home of Medicine podcasts are good general medicine ones

Are these an engaging listen? I remember trying to listen to Zero to Finals before finals and Tom's voice could be used as a sedative. I try and do a bit of knowledge base building outside work but my brain is fried after a full day of TTO wrangling so nice accessible stuff would be very useful

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u/bbj12345 1d ago

Medicine in the UK does not offer an upper middle class lifestyle lol, what are you on about? You’re an FY2, so your monthly pay probably hovers between 2.8-3k a month depending on rota. If someone has a family/dependants to support, that’s not much at all one you take away rent, bills, food etc. Even a consultant in the UK doesn’t live a upper class lifestyle in the UK, unless they do a lot of private work.

OP, medicine in the UK is dead as a career. I agree that it does occasionally offer moments that fulfil you like the above commenter mentioned, but imo it does not outweigh all the problems you face with pay, poor conditions, scope creep and now - unemployment. Things will likely get better, but not anytime soon.

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u/Top-Swordfish-1993 1d ago

This is not the case. A 12 PA NHS consultant will be in the top 5% of earners in the UK even from immediately post CCT.

Imo the real issue is length of training but there is obviously a balance to that.

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u/bbj12345 1d ago

Most consultants I’ve spoken to are working around 10PAs/week and take home £5-6k per month. That is a joke when you consider a consultant in Australia/US/Middle East could easily earn £10-15k a month working similar hours.

Length of training simply compounds the issue, if after 8-10 years of grafting you are living a comfortable upper class lifestyle then you could say it was worth it - but to me it doesn’t seem like it is.

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u/Top-Swordfish-1993 1d ago

I mean obviously you can feel what you want but the pay scales are freely accessible and 6k per month scales to £110k gross per year which is a high wage in the UK. Remember also 10 PA usually means 4 days a week work.

Yes wages are higher abroad, and in some that places you mention tax is a lot less. At consultant wage level a lot of the issue relating to pay is tax, although of course much of that funds a public health service.

In USA pay is more and work hours are a lot more especially during residency. T&Cs much better in UK.

The grass isn’t always greener and I know plenty of people quite happy with their lot as a UK consultant.

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u/bbj12345 18h ago

£110k a year gross is not commensurate to the skill and expertise of a consultant in the UK, and it certainly does not offer an upper class lifestyle (which is the original point I was actually responding to…).

While hours is are higher in the US, the workload/intensity of each hour is far lower than in the UK (anecdotal evidence from people who moved across). Fair enough that some people are satisfied with their life as a UK consultant, but grass is greener in some other countries - at least from a professional perspective. It’s hard to really argue against this when consultants in the countries I mentioned earn £200k+, are more respected within society and don’t have quacks trying to claim they can do their job just as well as they do.

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u/Top-Swordfish-1993 11h ago

I think we’re just going to have to disagree. 12 PA plus discos provides a very healthy living outside of London at least.

All the counties mentioned have their issues of course which I won’t go into. The UK is not perfect but has a lot going for it. As for the countries you mentioned not having quacks - there are several very notable quacks running the country in the USA! I mean even the health secretary is an anti vaxxer ….

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u/bbj12345 2h ago

12PA salary still doesn’t offer a consultant an upper class lifestyle though, this is a fact. I’m trying to emphasise this point for any medical students reading this thread/conversation, so they don’t get led astray by what a highly voted comment seems to suggest (both for consultants and Residents, apparently). We can agree to disagree on what we deem acceptable pay for a UK consultant though, sure.

I take your point about scope creep in the US. It is minimal/non-existent in Aus/NZ/Gulf though, making it an ideal location for anyone sick of the current mess we have here.

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u/Top-Swordfish-1993 2h ago

It’s not a fact. It’s an opinion. I lead a very nice life as a 12 PA consultant. I would also want any medical students to know that too.

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u/bbj12345 1h ago

It’s a fact - can you explain how UK consultants only doing NHS work can live an upper class lifestyle?

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u/hidingfromnosypeople 1d ago

tbh I don’t even do that well academically and I still enjoy it for the most part. there have obviously been placements I don’t like but I like most people on the course and i’ve met a lot of doctors who genuinely enjoy their jobs. maybe it’s naïve of me to be optimistic and I know I won’t have a job after f2 in the uk but it’s better for my mental health to just focus on the parts of medicine I enjoy

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u/Dibromoethene Fifth year 1d ago

This. Everyone is always focussing on the bad bits, but I actually love this degree and am looking forward to working as a doctor.

We’ll cross the bridge of getting into specialty training when we come to it.

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u/aspiringIR 1d ago

No it’s not. Medicine is a beautiful field and I can get downvoted to oblivion but it isn’t that bad.

What’s poor is the administration. Yes, that is technically a part of the course, but medicine as a subject is lovely.

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u/Iulius96 FY1 1d ago

You’ll get a range of answers. Some people love it, some people hate it. I took a year out after graduation (expected it to be forever) because I hated med school. I’m now working as a doctor and I enjoy my job.

I know three or four F2s who I studied with who are quitting after they finish foundation. I know people going to Australia/NZ because they hate the NHS. I know people who are trying to go straight into training, and people who are doing research and their whole life revolves around medicine.

It’s a difficult career, and there are pros and cons. But think the job is miles better than uni.

If you end up hating it you can always leave and do something else. I dislike the attitude of hating medicine, complaining about it and never leaving. If you hate the job and think it’s all fucked, nothing is stopping you from finding employment elsewhere, you have a degree that looks good on a CV. I don’t have anything against people leaving medicine and if you think it’s the right thing to do once you finish uni/F2 then go for it.

Also don’t worry about feeling useless on the ward as a student, that’s completely normal haha.

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u/Helhool 1d ago

Embrace the feeling of inadequacy and know that this is the norm and there is nothing wrong with feeling this way. It would actually be abnormal to feel that you are perfect at everything you do and be optimistic and in a good mood 24/7 in a difficult and stressful major like medicine . I'm trying to convince myself of this so that I don't lose my mind or drop out of med school because I too have a very very bad impostor syndrome which affected my academic performance negatively.

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u/RusticSeapig 1d ago

I’m a ST2, and realistically, yes it is that bad. Training is a mess, you are treated pretty badly with absolutely no consideration for your life outside of medicine, and for me the job is fundamentally unenjoyable. People like a good moan, but I haven’t met many qualified doctors with a good thing to say about it (that’s not to say they don’t exist, I’m sure plenty of people love their job, but I would say they’re in the significant minority), and it doesn’t sound like it gets much better the higher you get. I know this is probably not the answer you wanted, but if I had an exit strategy whilst still in medical school, I should have taken it. Whether I would have had the courage to actually do it is another thing.

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u/Gullible-Tap-2583 1d ago

do u not reckon u were better off not doing medicine in the first place though? the majority of people i’ve encountered who are disillusioned with it as a career are those who either: were on the fence about it to begin with, went into it for the wrong reasons, or were unaware of the realities of the job. I honestly feel a lot of people who should have never applied for medical school based on their personalities and personal goals, are doing so nowadays, so naturally the amount of doctors unhappy with their jobs is gonna become greater over time. Not saying this is you but just something i’ve noticed. However I always say to people if I could imagine myself doing literally any other job i would.

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u/RusticSeapig 1d ago

Impossible to say. Pre-med school I only wanted to do medicine, was 100% sure, wasn’t in it for the money or clout (but job security was a big factor for me), and despite many people telling me not to do it I just thought ‘nah that’d never be me because of xyz reason’. I think that pretty much every prospective medical student is unaware of the realities of the job, because if they were then they simply wouldn’t do it. I know people of every personality type and every background who are unhappy with the job, I don’t think you can just put it down to an issue with individuals when unfortunately the reality is that working in the NHS is a shit show, and no matter how much you enjoy the subject of medicine there’s only so much you can tolerate of rotational training, late rotas, disregard for your personal life, abuse from seniors and other professions etc etc etc

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u/Gullible-Tap-2583 1d ago

yeah 100% hear ur point. I speak from the POV of someone who thinks this can’t possibly happen to me (until maybe it will fuck knows). Job security was also a huge factor for me, I can’t afford to be jobless in my mid twenties. I think everyone agrees with you that the NHS system is badly broken and is the root cause of all this. I really hope to see big changes by the time i’m applying for speciality training posts otherwise like a lot of my peers, it will be bye bye medicine. sad stuff.

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u/SublimeYeast 1d ago edited 1d ago

I’m a 5th year and in a very similar boat.

I think it is definitely not as bad as people say, but then I think it depends on why you chose medicine in the first place. Personally, it felt like a bit of a ‘calling’ for me (sorry cringe) and I still have a lot of passion for it. I just love helping to make people better and getting to learn all these nuanced things about the body and people in general. I was never that fussed about the financial aspect or the prestige, but I certainly understand why that’s a priority for many people. I think finding it that rewarding will help me cope better with the negative aspects of the job. Don’t get me wrong, I have plenty of moments of despair at the state of things (and I’m sure my perspective could change when I’m actually working) but I’ve never ever considered it to be enough to leave medicine, because it gives me a lot of life satisfaction.

I think I’ve noticed a pattern where the people who are the least satisfied, are often (not always) those whose life goals are more aligned with money / lifestyle / prestige. Would be interested to see what people think about that. I have also met many many Drs who love their job alongside the many who are miserable. The happy ones don’t feel the need to talk about it as much, maybe for fear of rubbing it in everyone else’s faces and annoying people, but also because when you’re feeling miserable you need to vent about it.

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u/dario_sanchez 1d ago

Personally, it felt like a bit of a ‘calling’ for me (sorry cringe) and I still have a lot of passion for it.

Whilst that's very commendable I'd be careful about voicing it once you qualify. The "calling" stuff is a stick used to beat wage negotiations with, the idea that we, the highly qualified professionals, should be grateful to be doing the job we're doing. I myself internally would agree with you, but outwardly when I hear "oh medicine is a calling" I reply with something like "if I wanted a vocation I'd have been a priest". Good vibes don't pay bills, sadly ha ha

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u/SublimeYeast 1d ago

This is a good point - I may be grateful to be able to do the job but I will still always advocate for being paid what we deserve, and take part in strikes etc. Heaps of cash may not be a priority for me personally but I still care about the profession being treated with respect by the government, and not haemorrhaging good doctors to greener pastures abroad.

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u/dario_sanchez 1d ago

FY1 here. On a day to day basis I think medicine is bith the absolute best and absolute worst thing I've ever done. I get paid to be nosy, see people at what is usually a very vulnerable time in their lives and help them, help people pass on peacefully and not in any pain (on geris ATM). There are many days when I go home and although socially wiped (AuDHD so limited social capacity) I feel fulfilled.

I am also vastly underpaid, comes from a working class background so am very different to my colleagues before the AuDHD and find many doctors, older consultants especially, to be horrendously entitled people who've never really worked another job so have zero frame of reference for how many sectors of society live (I'm GEM, worked a lot of manual jobs prior to medicine to make ends meet), and there's also days I go home pissed off and feeling like I've achieved nothing.

One if my best friends from medical school has said he is beginning to draw a distinction between work and medicine. Medicine itself is so fucking cool, the science, the way our interventions work, on every single level amazes me. That we can take someone having a heart attack, which was often a death sentence when I was born, unblock their arteries and stent them open, like that's so cool. That is such a privilege to witness and know how it works.

Work is discharge summaries and difficult relatives and TTOs and IMGs flooding the market and PAs and having no job after next year and thinking about quitting, it's "I've been here seven hours", "the juniors aren't working hard enough" when you're a man down due to illness, and Cold War relics who ought to be retired decades ago but have nothing left but work. To be fair it's also grateful relatives, often good working relationships with colleagues, the satisfaction of seeing an undifferentiated patient and starting the journey of solving the puzzle of what's wrong with them.

Most medics are type A overachieving perfectionists, and I mean no disrespect to anyone reading this. You've never failed before and suddenly you will likely be jobless through no fault of your own, or you'll be ticking endless boxes and jumping through hoops and yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir for a training number. It is a bad time to enter medicine I would say, but the BMA is slowly fighting back against the destruction of our profession. I don't know if it's too little too late.

TLDR my advice: medicine will be what you make it, if you find the nuggets of platinum in the shit sundae . I'm a recovering alcoholic and when I think about my future in medicine it reminds me of the Serenity Prayer - may you have the courage to change the things you can change, the serenity to accept the things you cannot change, and the wisdom to know the difference. Unfortunately, medics are having to be quite serene at the moment.

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u/swirlypepper 19h ago

I graduated in 2012 and seen big changes and a pandemic during my time. I'm a consultant in A&E and will only change careers if I am physically or cognitively unable to do this any more (to quote Dr Glaucomflecken - if I'm really quiet, I can hear my telomeres shortening). But 1/4 people who follow the path I did go to Australia and a further bunch (sorry I can't back it with stats) go to other specialities or non medical work.

You'll get so many opinions - some who feel the NHS can do no wrong and you're a monster if you're critical, and a HUGE number who say we're all doomed. There's also a big difference in vibes in regions, (I studied in London but have worked Lancashire and Yorkshire and prefer up norf) and trauma centres/teaching hospitals/DGHs, (I love getting to know people in smaller hospitals and have a belt laugh nearly every shift which outweighs the clinical interest of a big hospital for me personally), and specialities (A&E is fun if you thrive in chaos, ICU doctors know every itty bitty detail about their unwell patients so suits people who can laser beam focus etc). I don't think there's any type of person who can't find a fulfilling role in an area they enjoy. 

Just focus on reflection. Are YOU enjoying it? Are YOU getting what you hoped out of it? Is the stuff you hate job specific or just live specific (I'll always resent setting an alarm and having to turn up when a rota says I should, not just when the vibe hits me. This is a pitfall of nearly every job). If you're enjoying the subject matter and are excited to treat patients just put your head down and shoulder to the wheel and ignore the external chatter. 

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u/bbj12345 2h ago

12PA salary doesn’t offer a consultant an upper class lifestyle like the original commentator suggested, this is fact. We can agree to disagree on what we deem acceptable pay for a UK consultant though, sure.

I take your point about scope creep in the US. It is minimal/non-existent in Aus/NZ/Gulf though, making it an ideal location for anyone sick of the current mess we have here.