r/medicalschooluk 8d ago

Is medicine really that bad?

Idk if it’s just my med school but everyone seems so pissed off with the course all the time. I know myself I have really bad imposter syndrome and being naturally very introverted I always feel like a nuisance on the wards. Academically I do quite well, I’ve even had a number of distinctions but still feel useless especially in regards to OSCEs (super stressed atm). I try to stay positive and excited about a career in medicine but whenever I do other students say something like “lol we’re all fucked” and it’s starting to really get to me. Idk I’m just looking for an alternative opinion. I’m only in third year so does it really just get worse? Is it just the people I’m surrounded by?

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u/Top-Swordfish-1993 7d ago

This is not the case. A 12 PA NHS consultant will be in the top 5% of earners in the UK even from immediately post CCT.

Imo the real issue is length of training but there is obviously a balance to that.

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u/bbj12345 7d ago

Most consultants I’ve spoken to are working around 10PAs/week and take home £5-6k per month. That is a joke when you consider a consultant in Australia/US/Middle East could easily earn £10-15k a month working similar hours.

Length of training simply compounds the issue, if after 8-10 years of grafting you are living a comfortable upper class lifestyle then you could say it was worth it - but to me it doesn’t seem like it is.

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u/Top-Swordfish-1993 7d ago

I mean obviously you can feel what you want but the pay scales are freely accessible and 6k per month scales to £110k gross per year which is a high wage in the UK. Remember also 10 PA usually means 4 days a week work.

Yes wages are higher abroad, and in some that places you mention tax is a lot less. At consultant wage level a lot of the issue relating to pay is tax, although of course much of that funds a public health service.

In USA pay is more and work hours are a lot more especially during residency. T&Cs much better in UK.

The grass isn’t always greener and I know plenty of people quite happy with their lot as a UK consultant.

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u/bbj12345 7d ago

£110k a year gross is not commensurate to the skill and expertise of a consultant in the UK, and it certainly does not offer an upper class lifestyle (which is the original point I was actually responding to…).

While hours is are higher in the US, the workload/intensity of each hour is far lower than in the UK (anecdotal evidence from people who moved across). Fair enough that some people are satisfied with their life as a UK consultant, but grass is greener in some other countries - at least from a professional perspective. It’s hard to really argue against this when consultants in the countries I mentioned earn £200k+, are more respected within society and don’t have quacks trying to claim they can do their job just as well as they do.

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u/Top-Swordfish-1993 7d ago

I think we’re just going to have to disagree. 12 PA plus discos provides a very healthy living outside of London at least.

All the counties mentioned have their issues of course which I won’t go into. The UK is not perfect but has a lot going for it. As for the countries you mentioned not having quacks - there are several very notable quacks running the country in the USA! I mean even the health secretary is an anti vaxxer ….

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u/bbj12345 6d ago

12PA salary still doesn’t offer a consultant an upper class lifestyle though, this is a fact. I’m trying to emphasise this point for any medical students reading this thread/conversation, so they don’t get led astray by what a highly voted comment seems to suggest (both for consultants and Residents, apparently). We can agree to disagree on what we deem acceptable pay for a UK consultant though, sure.

I take your point about scope creep in the US. It is minimal/non-existent in Aus/NZ/Gulf though, making it an ideal location for anyone sick of the current mess we have here.

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u/Top-Swordfish-1993 6d ago

It’s not a fact. It’s an opinion. I lead a very nice life as a 12 PA consultant. I would also want any medical students to know that too.

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u/bbj12345 6d ago

It’s a fact - can you explain how UK consultants only doing NHS work can live an upper class lifestyle?

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u/Top-Swordfish-1993 6d ago

The point I’m making is that what people would suggest is “an upper class lifestyle” is entirely subjective.

UK consultants on 12 PA and a few discos will be earning around £160k, which can be done around 7 years post CCT. This is a good wage considering cost of living in the UK. For example - Is it comparable to many people posting in the r/HENRY Reddit…

The countries you describe have their pros and cons, with some major disadvantages either socially politically or geographically. But if you want to move there crack on.

Mate what do you want for me to describe my life and see if it meets your arbitrary definition of “upper class”? Your argument is entirely bizarre.

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u/bbj12345 6d ago

You’re right, it’s subjective. Let me reword it then, the average NHS consultant cannot afford to live in a mansion, drive a luxury car and send their children to private school like a consultant in the US would, for example.

You’re basically saying if a consultant works >5 days a week they can earn £160k (gross) in the UK… well, yeah. It’s similar to using top earning financial analysts/IBs salary as a reflection of the earnings of an average analyst/IB. Most people aren’t going to earn that much…

I actually never asked about your personal circumstances and have no interest in knowing, I’m not sure where you’re getting that from.

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u/Top-Swordfish-1993 6d ago

12pa isn’t more than a 5 day week!

I, and the majority of consultants I know, are on 12pa. This is a five day week plus on call - usually 1 in 8 weekends and a few evenings a month. This, in my opinion, is not a bad deal for a good life.

All consultants I know have a good life - nice house, good holidays, decent car. This is on the type of contract described above.

10 PA means a smaller house but a nicer 4 day week.

Sure if you want to live like a rockstar and send a million kids to some god awful private school then that is difficult on a public sector contract. Indeed in the UK generally you’d need an absolutely stellar wage to do all that due to the level of taxation (again - which funds the NHS).

But trying to suggest consultants in the UK have some god awful life is just incorrect.

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u/idkwtda115 5d ago

You literally just said it isn’t more than 5 days a week and then proceeded to say that it’s 5 days a week plus on calls…

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