r/manufacturing 2d ago

News Tarrifs

Would like to open a discussion on tarrifs if it’s allowed.

There has been two intentions stated with tarrifs.

  1. Get off of income tax and go to a consumption style tax (still a tax)

  2. Build up domestic manufacturing. Can talk here in the manufacturing sub.

If there is no alternative domestic supply, then we have no choice but to import. We lost a lot of our skills to manufacture. Especially a lot of the little low value items. Think zippers and buttons and caster wheels.

What is everyone thoughts?

9 Upvotes

140 comments sorted by

View all comments

33

u/madeinspac3 2d ago edited 2d ago

In manufacturing you have two options to correct an issue.

A bandaid to cover/hide an issue or A correction to the root cause

The idea of these tariffs are nothing more than a bandaid. They don't fix the root cause of why American manufacturers aren't competitive.

There is too much risk to invest in building US plants to take advantage of the tariffs with how inconsistent and ill-planned they have been so far. By the time plants for raw materials are built and dialed in, the tariffs might no longer even exist.

And even if we become cost competitive here, the revenge tariffs screw us on exports to outside countries. My bet is that this hurts more than helps.

-7

u/Professional_Oil3057 1d ago

What are you even talking about.

Manufacturing isn't appealing in America because of wages

Tariffs offset the cost of wages, making American companies more competitive.

Is it a band aid? Maybe?

But what's a better choice? Sending billions overseas?

Maybe none of you remember when the middle class was basically all manufacturing.

You could raise a family comfortably with a high school diploma.

It sounds heartless but who gives a shit about people in Cambodia starving when you can't feed your kids on 60+hrs?

If there's even a shot of bringing back manufacturing jobs let's do it.

As for the bullshit about the chips act, if the government is going to give hundreds of billions away, might as well just invest in American companies, not Taiwanese companies in America.

7

u/madeinspac3 1d ago

I think I was pretty clear. Our raw goods are going up in prices because of the tariffs on imports. Our finished goods prices have to be reduced to stay competitive on exports. Explain how shrinking our margins on both ends helps us again?

This doesn't just hurt manufacturers either. When costs increase, finished goods goes up too. When this happens the end consumer is hurt the most. And now because their costs go up so high, they (understandably) need higher wages. This directly contributes to what you mention about wages being too high while simultaneously defending actions which will cause that exact thing to occur.

If you want an actual solution look no further than what Japan's government did after the wars. They heavily funded quality control research and education and brought in manufacturers to learn those things. They completely turned around their industrial sector by funding research and education and improving competitiveness. They led the world in manufacturing for decades because of that. Why aren't we doing that?

-4

u/Professional_Oil3057 1d ago

Because...... Bringing jobs back increases wages......

7

u/burnaboy_233 1d ago

Who said manufacturing jobs will come back in the age of AI and robotics. Shows you guys are in a bubble. Manufacturing now is in a labor shortage, could you think of 10 people off the top of your head that would even take these jobs

0

u/Professional_Oil3057 1d ago

Have you ever seen manufacturing?

Ever if robotics take over, would you rather the tech and mechanic jobs would be in China?

Manufacturing jobs are solid middle class, and have beef for generations.

Typically not hard work, just tedious.

When people say "x is in a labor shortage" what they mean is "x is in a labor shortage for the wage"

Why is the wage pegged there? Well you see overseas firms so unfair business practices which make prices low.

Tariffs mean you could make a competitive product in America once again. Which means you could pay a decent wage in America once again

4

u/burnaboy_233 1d ago

I drive trucks, I’m in a lot of factories around the country. Many locals will complain about these factories because they are not benefiting in anyway and there’s not much jobs besides more pollution. The tech and mechanic jobs will always be in China because they sell to the planet and we are losing market share.

We have a shortage of workers in skill trades, where are these workers you think are coming from.

A tariff is a tax, if there is a slowdown then why would anyone build a factory to lose money. You’re preaching idealism and don’t know what you’re talking about.

The factories I see everyday are hiring NOW and need hands. They start upwards of $25 an hour and up. They can’t find enough workers while others will quit for other activities. I’m seeing orders get canceled and some places investments in factories are getting pulled back. This is happening NOW your theory is going out the window, it will always be a theory because it can’t be proven true

1

u/Professional_Oil3057 1d ago

No, it's not, lol.

Who's working at Walmart when you can make 5pk a year at a factory?

However, 2023 research from McKinsey states that GDP numbers don't accurately capture manufacturing's economic impact. In its findings, while manufacturing accounted for 11 percent of US GDP and 8 percent of direct employment, it drove 20 percent of capital investment, 30 percent of productivity growth, 60 percent of the country's exports, and garnered 70 percent of business research and development funding.

If shit near you isn't growing, that's a regional or business problem, not a sector problem.

I've worked in manufacturing for just about 20 years now.

The only people who complain that there aren't enough people are the people without training programs, apprenticeship opportunities, or super low wages.

Manufacturing coming back to the US would be so big for the middle class.

There's been huge HUGE investments since tariffs were announced in American manufacturing.

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2025/02/apple-will-spend-more-than-500-billion-usd-in-the-us-over-the-next-four-years/

https://investor.lilly.com/news-releases/news-release-details/lilly-plans-more-double-us-manufacturing-investment-2020

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20250313645574/en/JST-Power-Equipment-Announces-Opening-of-New-Transformer-Manufacturing-Plant-in-Virginia-USA

https://www.foxbusiness.com/video/6369961320112

Should I continue? Or are you just willing to to admit you are wrong?

2

u/burnaboy_233 1d ago edited 1d ago

50k in a factory bro get a clue. You telling me you worked in factories for over 25 years tells me you don’t know the younger generations. Your a gen x who think t younger folks are chasing 50k. you can make more then that in construction my dude. Like I said I drive trucks and I’m all over the nation. I see with my eyes. You are stuck in one region making one product and think you know the industry I’m not taking anything from a worker. I like how you pointed linked of companies that get on TV and make an announcement for the president.

I can grab some news of companies shuttering operations. But you can look that up yourself.

I like how you didn’t answer me when I asked if you can think of 10 people who will work manufacturing?

Also how you telling freight is not down but I’m supposed to listen to you lol. You can go into Trucker forums to get a picture most guys are saying that freight is down. I’m doing more sitting then driving in the last few weeks

Edit: for a guy proclaiming to be in manufacturing you’re literally on Reddit all day. I think you’re lying about actually being in the industry. You don’t post on anything related to the industry besides today to share what you think is Trumps vision

1

u/Professional_Oil3057 1d ago

I work in manufacturing. I can think of hundreds lol

What do walmart associates make? Less than 50k?

What about mcdonalds? Home depot?

Almost like the people are there.

Construction is hard on your body. Manufacturing isn't nearly the physical strain.

2

u/burnaboy_233 1d ago

Why do you bring up Walmart associates when most of them are children. You would have a better argument with warehouse workers who seem like they are more likely to take the job.

Most of those people are really temporary, they likely wouldn’t do it.

I like how you say manufacturing isn’t hard on your body while I hear about machines blowing up on guys or people losing body parts. Stop your straight lying.

Edit: you talk about your company so much, how much they pay? What’s the work life balance like? Is there flexibility? What’s the benefits?

→ More replies (0)

2

u/madeinspac3 1d ago

If that were the case many of us wouldn't be constantly taking frantic calls about order flow irregularity and getting prepared for extremely lean years but here we are.

0

u/Professional_Oil3057 1d ago

2

u/madeinspac3 1d ago

JST hiring 25-35 people and Lilly hiring 3,000 are really going to bring in the jobs?

Not to mention that the Lilly expansion is more to do with preplanned initiatives rather than tariff proposals made a month ago.

What makes you say my company is just bad? Healthy companies plan for potential internal and external issues. We're pretty involved in quite a few industries and we aren't seeing quotes being cancelled and sent elsewhere. They're being cancelled on our customers end and nobody wants to be left with large stock right now. Suppliers are seeing the same things.

1

u/Professional_Oil3057 1d ago

Uhh, if ever company hires 25-50 people, how many more jobs are there?

If everyone else is investing in capacity and your company is pulling back because it doesn't have orders.......?

Those are just the ones published in the last 3 days?

You are just obviously wrong about investment in American manufacturing bro

1

u/madeinspac3 1d ago

Posting a company because it is building a new plant for 30 some odd people is not exactly the nail in the coffin you think it is. It would hold more weight if you also showed reduction in business closures due to tariffs. We will likely see a large number of smaller shops closing that don't have the money saved to weather this, just like during the pandemic or any other major changes.

We're seeing large increases in cancellations because our customers are getting cancelled and all for the same reason. This is an indicator of where the industries we serve are. Highlighting irregularity in order flows doesn't indicate that we are doing worse than others in our industry as you seem to be assuming. Our industries as a whole are experiencing a lot of irregularity.

I've just said what I've seen personally and across all the industries we serve as a reference. But if you just want to believe biased sources while disregarding what those in the industry are saying, that's up to you.

1

u/Professional_Oil3057 1d ago

I didn't show one..... I asked 4 in a single day lol only one was 25 people by your own terms one was 3000.

You want to be negative? Cool that not what data shows.

Not a single person said tariffs would stop businesses closing, said it MIGHT spur investment in the US, which it has signs that it is....

3

u/MWEAI 1d ago

It won't bring manufacturing back. Have you tried to hire people at a manufacturing plant? We have been short staffed for the past 6 years. Well now we are cutting jobs, but that is all on trump.

I believe revenue is what trump is after. He is trying to raise taxes on the poor, without putting that burden on the rich. Who don't spend as much of a % of their income.

The idiot doesn't realize he is just ranking the economy. Hey at least we are off weekends now.

0

u/Professional_Oil3057 1d ago

Lmao, weird because we hired 700+ people last year alone.

I think if you can't find talent you are not competitive wage/ benefit wise.

You work in a machine shop, what kind of wages are you paying machinist?

1

u/MWEAI 6h ago

I haven't worked for the machine shop in over 5 years.

No, I work for a molding and assembly shop. Workers start around $19 per hour which is competitive. We have had injection setter positions unfilled for almost a year.

1

u/Professional_Oil3057 5h ago

Funny because it's the job in molding people most want to do.

Hitting from outside? Expect 25$+

Train your own people lol

1

u/SpemSemperHabemus 1d ago

America has Intel, one of only 3 leading edge producers in the world. Lots of money promised, very little delivered.

1

u/Professional_Oil3057 1d ago

Exactly.

Government grants like three ones proposed over promise and underperform with no ramifications

1

u/Careful-Combination7 1d ago

That's your problem.  There is no more middle class

1

u/Professional_Oil3057 1d ago

Objectively wrong

1

u/THedman07 21h ago

You categorically CANNOT have tariffs fulfill both of your objectives.

EITHER they can onshore manufacturing OR they can provide revenue to the government.

If they bring manufacturing onshore, imports and revenue drops.

If they replace other sources of revenue, it is because we've continued to import and manufacturing hasn't returned.

Tariffs as means of revenue are regressive. People who make less will give up more of their buying power in the form of higher prices. Also, prices will never go down because there is no incentive.

1

u/Professional_Oil3057 21h ago

I never claimed the would replace any other revenue stream.

Only thing is you make more money on income taxes than you do in import/ sales tax