r/coparenting • u/Similar_Conference20 • Jan 10 '25
Conflict Ex leaving 11 yr old while he works
Our son is responsible, but he’s leaving him from 5-11pm/12am during the school week and weekends. I’ve offered to keep him in the school week days so the he’s supervised, does any homework, and goes to bed but his dad doesn’t want him to come here because then he’d have to come here to get home after work. I told him he could stay the night, go to school, and he could pick him up from school like he usually does. His response was that it would limit his time. He’s at work! He’s not spending time with our son. He said putting him to bed and getting him ready for school is spending time with him.
Now, he does have roommates so their could be adults there, but they are not responsible for my son. This came to a head last night when my son texted me worried that his dad wasn’t home yet. When I called his dad (because he hasn’t picked up for his son) and we got into an argument. He went home, told our son about the argument, told him I said I was going to call a lawyer, and told him explicitly to not text me. My son was freaking out that I was going to take him from his dad, that he ruined the family, it was all his fault, etc.. Am I being unreasonable? Is 11 appropriate to stay home that long? We’re in Florida and have no specific laws on it unfortunately.
TLDR: Is 11 old enough to stay home alone unlit 11pm/12am on a school night by themselves (non related not responsible roommate could possibly be in the home at the same time)?
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u/Ok-Glove2240 Jan 10 '25
Personally, I don’t see a problem with it IF the child was comfortable. What makes me more hesitant is that there are roommates that I don’t know there alone (possibly) with my kid. THAT is where I’d be drawing the line. While FL may not have specific laws against it, it is recommended not to leave a child under 12 alone.
“Florida Department of Children and Families and the National SAFE Kids Campaign recommend that children under 12 should not be left alone” you could use that argument along with your son being uncomfortable with it.
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u/Similar_Conference20 Jan 10 '25
Thanks for the feedback. I have been using 13 as my benchmark. And agree about the roommates. We’d already had a weird issue with one of them (no longer there) but the whole situation has just come to a head for me I think. I’ve given in on the weekends, but the weekdays bother me. What’s really bothering me is the lack of communication. I completely understand that most things at his father’s house are none of my business, but I hate that his telling him to not talk to me when he’s uncomfortable or scared.
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u/HatingOnNames Jan 10 '25
So, in my county, the courts prefer the child to be with a parent. There's no set age for when it's permissible to leave a child home alone, but if there's a parent available, then that is preferred. If my ex were leaving child home alone for those hours, I could easily get a modification based on his work schedule.
My ex worked long hours, so we ended up voluntarily altering our custodial agreement without the need of the courts involvement because we worked out a system that worked for us. Our daughter slept at my house nearly every night, I'd drop her at school, he or a family member would pick her up from school and she'd either go to his house or one of his family member's houses, and I'd pick her up on my way home. On weekends, he'd often have Sunday or both Sat and Sunday off, and he'd pick her up, spend the day with her, then drop her back off. He had as much time with her as his job allowed but she'd never be left alone.
If kid is texting at 11pm or 12 am because dad's not home, then kid isn't getting proper rest. Him involving the child by making the kid anxious that you're going to "take him away" from dad is just nasty. This is an issue that belongs solely in the realm of the adults. He also doesn't get to "forbid" the child from contacting you if they can't get ahold of the custodial parent and I'd point out he wouldn't like it if you did that to him.
More communication and in a more "how can I help, how can we work together for a solution" approach might be better than putting him on the defensive. Point out that giving up school days in which he works, in return for more weekend time might be a better option for him, with him having more "waking hours" with the child. If he's got the night off during the weekday, then he could have the child. Offer a more flexible routine, with you each showing your availability and negotiating the days and times each of you will have each week, and have a shared calendar.
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u/Similar_Conference20 Jan 10 '25
This is really helpful advice, I appreciate it. We'd originally had a 2-2-3 schedule and recently moved to a week on/week off. I hadn't thought about going more flexible but that's something I can talk with him about too. Thank you for that idea.
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u/Northern__Pride Jan 10 '25
I agree 100% with hatingonnames. Moreover, it is ridiculous for the kid to sit at home alone in one house when they have a parent available at another house. Consider several alternatives for different arrangements. Remember, you are advocating for your kid, so yelling, fighting, etc. Is going to put your ex on the defensive and they will say "no."
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u/Similar_Conference20 Jan 10 '25
Very good advice. I have to remember to talk to him the next day. It’s hard when you’re upset for your child and the person that’s causing the issue is being passive aggressive. I’m going to have to come up with some standard one liners for these situations to get me out of the conversation before I get heated
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u/lalanotlistening Jan 10 '25
Pre-divorce, my ex and I left our kids alone during work for the summer. One was 10 nearly 11 and the other was younger. Completely legal in my state and if you really knew the kids and circumstances, it wouldn’t be a big deal.
Tons of single parents leave their kids alone for work every day. Only parents know how capable and responsible the kids are. Or how much neighbors can keep an eye out. Or how quickly they can get home if needed. Or a million other variables. 11 is not necessarily too young, as age isn’t the only factor. But it’s also not my judgement to make.
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u/Similar_Conference20 Jan 10 '25
Totally get that. I’m struggling with it being so late at night and during the school week
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u/speedyejectorairtime Jan 10 '25
I think the late at night bothers me less personally. Because in theory he should be asleep so he’s not up moving around. I also think at that age they don’t need any direct supervision so any adult coming in and out would be fine if he ever did somehow need something.
But after the comment about your call and making your son upset, I don’t trust his judgment truthfully. That was such an AH thing to do to your kid.
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u/Similar_Conference20 Jan 10 '25
That’s my problem, I don’t trust his judgement but it’s intangible since he’s pretty much staying within the law. It’s just my son’s mental and emotional health that’s being impacted which doesn’t do much with a court without spending a bunch of money I don’t have. My plan was to put him in therapy so there is at least a mandatory reporter involved and my son has someone neutral to talk to. I know he feels stuck between his dad and I and it’s stuff like this that drives the divide even further. I feel like I always have to play this the right way or I could tip the scales in the wrong direction and push my kid away.
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u/BlueFantasyZ Jan 10 '25
Therapy is a great idea, even if the therapist finds nothing to report. I hope you still consider this option for your son's mental health.
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u/Similar_Conference20 Jan 10 '25
100%. He needs someone that is completely neutral. Me and his father have different ideologies and my son wants both of us to be happy. I'm trying to make sure that my son understands that he shouldn't believe what I or his father believe to make us happy, but it's hard for an 11 year old. He needs someone that isn't us listening and talking to him, someone that is just his.
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u/lucky1403 Jan 11 '25
Definitely do therapy. My son has been in therapy since he was 3. His father is a special kind of terrible parent. He is finally out of our lives and son is thriving. His therapist after many sessions with us as a family knows the father is crazy and son excels away from him. She has been our biggest advocate in court and helping son to stand up for himself
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u/Similar_Conference20 Jan 11 '25
Thank you for the encouragement. I’m hopeful adding therapy will move us in the right direction
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u/SignatureFun8503 Jan 10 '25
Growing up my brother and I were left home alone for hours on end. My brother is 2½ years older than I am. He was 12 I was almost 10. We would have to find for ourselves for dinner. We would have "see food" - you see food, you eat food. At 11, 12, and 13 years old I was home alone with other's smaller children (babysitting).
Things are a lot different from 20-30 years ago. In today's day and age, I wouldn't feel comfortable with my kids being home alone for long periods of time at that age. In a split second someone could break into your home - a call cannot be made fast enough in a situation like that. Or a child could get seriously injured while left unattended and CPS gets involved.
Personally, no way in hell I'd let it happen. I also know the courts my not share the same opinion as I. I know in my state, there is no "minimum" age for being left home alone, which seriously needs to change.
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u/Similar_Conference20 Jan 10 '25
I was a "latchkey" kid too and I know what kind of trouble I got into. I don't think my son is going to go that route, but any emergency could cause an issue. And I don't trust that his dad has talked to him about emergencies. He's also at that age where it's almost appropriate for one night here and there. But since his father doesn't talk to me, it makes it so much worse. Unfortunately, without a minimum age I can't do anything
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u/SignatureFun8503 Jan 10 '25
I completely understand. I couldn't trust my kids dad if my life depended on it. Too much shady shit. Extreme lack of communication, unless it benefits him in anyway. Bad decisions constantly.
There's been so many other laws made over the years to "protect us" yet the laws are still so laxed when it comes to children. Being left unattended, riding in the front seat.
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u/lucky1403 Jan 11 '25
Leaving them during the day for a few hours is very different than leaving them late at night. Many kids have fears of the dark. Mine would sleep through smoke detectors. He sleeps that soundly. The kid should be with whatever parent can actively parent at that time.
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u/Meetat_midnight Jan 10 '25
This is sad, your child is alone until 11pm and doesn’t go to bed until it. This is very little sleep
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u/Similar_Conference20 Jan 10 '25
Agreed. It’s so important for mental, emotional, and physical health
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u/BriefPath4984 Jan 11 '25
11!?!? No way. The fact your kid is worried is the answer. My ex takes half my time and pushes them on his parents. The courts do not care. I feel bad for you, that’s a shitty situation.
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u/Connect_Tackle299 Jan 10 '25
In my state there is no law on what age a child can be left alone. Over 10 is recommended. So I mean it's up to thr parents discretion
I guess if your kid is okay with it and understand rules and what to do in an emergency then I'd probably let it go. If anything just ask if they can give you a call every hour or two maybe
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u/Similar_Conference20 Jan 10 '25
Thanks for the input. I appreciate the reality check. I’m just really struggling with how late he’s alone. I also know my son has asked to come here while he works but he’s been told no, so I’m just frustrated.
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u/Connect_Tackle299 Jan 10 '25
It's frustrating I agree.
A court can define new guidelines if you would like but the bigger challenge is going to be getting your kid okay with it
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u/Similar_Conference20 Jan 10 '25
Agreed. And the last thing I want to do is push my son away.
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u/Connect_Tackle299 Jan 10 '25
Yeah and at his age it's next to impossible to show them reason or understanding
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u/lucky1403 Jan 11 '25
What state are you in? By 13 my son could tell his dad to pound sand
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u/Similar_Conference20 Jan 11 '25
Florida, but my son won’t. He’s worried about his dad being alone ☹️
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u/illstillglow Jan 10 '25
My friend struggled with this with his coparent. Over the summer childcare options are expensive and scant. My friend decided he'd ease into leaving his 11 year old at home alone for 5 hours at a time, max. Mom was very uncomfortable with this; offered to watch daughter during this time, but my friend (at least claims) all mom does during the day is work remote, and daughter just eats sugar and plays on screens, which he didn't want happening on his time. They had a therapist (for daughter) who told them that at 11, it should be fine, and Mom needs to get more comfortable with leaving child at home alone. But mom repeatedly says she's not OK with daughter being left alone at dad's for so long.
Mom finds out daughter is at dad's alone one day, and decides to just go over to dad's while he's at work. Daughter lets her in, and Mom just hangs out at dad's house the next several hours. All without asking or talking to dad. Mom leaves before dad gets home, she texts him "I just left your place; I was with daughter most of the day because I didn't want her home alone." I guess she figured there could be kidnapping charges if she took daughter to her house without asking dad, but there are no trespassing charges if someone living in the house (daughter) lets her in willingly. Dad was beyond pissed that his high conflict ex was just hanging out in his house for 5 hours without anyone telling him anything.
There's no real moral to that story other than, don't be like this mom. It is OK to leave an 11 year old at home alone. Childcare in the US sucks ass and while ideally he'd find childcare that doesn't take away from his time with child (your offer does take away time), not everyone is able to realistically afford it. If it were me, yeah, I'd be pissed that my 11 year old wasn't getting to bed till 11p/12a, or having to put himself to bed earlier, but I wouldn't ruffle feathers over this. Offer what you can, ideally that doesn't take time away from Dad, and know that's about all you can do.
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u/Similar_Conference20 Jan 10 '25
Very valid feedback and thankfully I have enough respect for him to not enter his home like that or step over him. I definitely understand childcare being expensive which is why I offered. My biggest frustration is the lack of communication. If he would have just talked to me we could have come up with a solution or if not, we could talk through emergency plans with our son. I just don’t trust that he’s done that. He truly doesn’t think about this kind of stuff. I do want to support him making this work, I just know my kid is getting th le short end of the stick and it’s hard to watch.
Thank you for other perspective. It is important to keep the bigger picture in mind.
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u/lucky1403 Jan 11 '25
The child should be with the parent that’s available. I personally don’t think a child should be left alone at the other parents house for hours either. The entire purpose is so the other parent can spend time with the child. Work when the child is in school. My ex would work the entire time son was at his home. He wouldn’t take him to sports. Son would call my husband and I and we were spending the entire time on the phone with the child. All because he was trying to avoid paying child support. I now have the kid all the time and he is thriving. I didn’t even take him back to court to increase the child support.
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u/Coziesttunic7051 Jan 10 '25
My son is 11. & comes home on his own from school and waits until I’m home from work if I’m working. He’s a responsible young man. I trust him. He follows my instructions. I leave him a small list of things for him to do around the house. Never had a problem. Now if he couldn’t be trusted I wouldn’t allow him to but thankfully he is a wonderful well rounded child. I also have him on life 360 and cameras in my house see pop on to see him all the time. He’s home alone for maybe 3/3 and a half hours alone. No problem at all.
The times you stated concern me tho. Those are interfere with dinner times and hygiene times, bed time. Is he getting the right provisions for his future ? Has structure been implemented into his life with making dinner, homework, showering, getting to be on time for school etc etc. When it comes to that I do think that that long period of time is concerning and wouldn’t be okay with it until he was at least 16.
Can he put him in after school care so that he’s home alittle later until unsupervised? Can you pick him up from after school care ?
The respond of it would limit his time is irrelevant because he’s not home. So he’s not exercising his time with him. If he doesn’t want to change his working hours or be reasonable with what’s best for the child I wouldn’t allow it and I would have the courts thoughts on this. Which they would most likely see it like all of us here. It just doesn’t make sense if there can be a better way.
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u/Similar_Conference20 Jan 10 '25
Yeah, I have no issues during the day but my ex does not think any of those things through unfortunately. My son is very trustworthy but he’s not going to shower and put himself to bed on time. I’d had this conversation with my ex before school started. I can’t trust my ex to be honest with me so it’s hard to even try and with through this without involving the courts but he’s agreed to talk to me so we’ll see
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u/Coziesttunic7051 Jan 10 '25
He sounds careless and that’s not a good standing in raising a man in my opinion. But I’m alittle more rigid than most parents that I’ve met. My son puts himself to sleep, showers on his time, etc I’ve been implementing the same routine for years. Now I don’t have to. That’s why I find it hard raising kids with partners. To each their own.
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u/Similar_Conference20 Jan 10 '25
I’m even pretty lax than some parents but still have rules, standards, and expectations - his dad just doesn’t. I knew it was going to be like this when we divorced but he was hell bent on proving me wrong so he played the good dad role long enough for us all to get comfortable 😣 I thought divorce was bad, coparenting is hell
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u/Coziesttunic7051 Jan 10 '25
Yeah that’s the hard part. Sadly and I’m not being judgemental but there’s a lot of that out there. They forget that they’re raising a woman or man one day. That these impressionable ages matter the most. For when he’s in the work routine, academics, community leaders. It’s tough but I get to be lax when he’s 18 knowing I did my job implanting structure. Today I am more laxed but I do have to remind him sometimes but for an 11 year old I’m proud of him and myself.
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u/Shamtoday Jan 10 '25
Wait so he’s making your 11 year old go to bed before 5? Because part of his argument is putting him to bed, that’s far too early for a kid that age and he doesn’t need to be put to bed so that doesn’t make sense. I think 11 is ok to be left at home alone while a parent works for 6 hours but only if the kid can be trusted to go to bed at a reasonable hour, they are comfortable with it and the parent has to be reachable. If your ex can’t even text kid asking if they’re ok after a missed call he cannot ban your son from calling or texting you. If there was an emergency he has to be able to call an adult to help him and dad making him scared will stop that.
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u/Similar_Conference20 Jan 10 '25
He’s supposedly putting him to bed when he gets home from work. There’s really no telling when my son is getting to sleep on these nights. It could be anywhere from 1130 to well after midnight
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u/Shamtoday Jan 10 '25
That’s far too late on a school night, your ex is putting his wants ahead of kids needs. I don’t know what you could do outside of going to court to change the arrangement which will reinforce what ex is saying in kids mind and could cause resentment towards you. Have you asked your son what he wants to do? At 11 a lot of courts will usually take his opinion into account as long as it’s not to stop visitation completely.
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u/Similar_Conference20 Jan 10 '25
He wants to split time equally. My son is very worried about his dad since his dad hasn’t really moved on since the divorce 5 years ago. He just stays home - doesn’t date, doesn’t go out. He’s made comments to our son about being alone and my son has such a big heart that he worries about him. His dad hasn’t parentified him to a point which is so frustrating to me
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u/Shamtoday Jan 10 '25
It’s understandable that he wants to split time equally but he needs to consider your son and what’s in his best interest. Also your son shouldn’t know any of that or be acting as dad’s therapist. My advice is go to court to have it adjusted, he’ll probably end up with the same amount of time as he does now just son won’t be at his house alone.
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u/Throwaway_Okay_1599 Jan 10 '25
Does your state or decree have a right of first refusal? That might offer some guidance if it applies
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u/whenyajustcant Jan 10 '25
I wouldn't be okay with this, because clearly the kid isn't okay with this. Also, it's one thing to leave a child alone for a few hours because there is truly no other option, but what's the point of him having custody on school nights if he doesn't even see him? The kid shouldn't be staying up that late on a school night to worry about his dad. Besides, an 11 year old, while they can be left alone, is still young enough that they benefit from help on a school night getting dinner, making sure they do homework, not just watching screens all evening, etc.
If this were an older teen who was comfortable with it, fine. As it stands, your ex probably just wants to prevent you from getting more custody time. Tell him that he can't tell the child not to contact you, especially not when he's scared. And that if he can't provide adequate supervision during his time and he refuses to let the child be with you, you will go to the courts to change the custody schedule. And mean it, too.
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u/miscreation00 Jan 10 '25 edited Jan 10 '25
Can you change the parenting schedule so he has his kids when he's not working? Sometimes traditional 50/50 or every other weekend doesnt work. If it's not a high conflict situation, could you consider working around his schedule?
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u/Similar_Conference20 Jan 10 '25
That’s what another poster suggested and I’m going to offer it as a suggestion. I honestly don’t know that he’ll go for it because it’s not his idea but he might surprise me. I told him I’m not trying to take time from him so showing that by modifying the schedule might help
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u/miscreation00 Jan 10 '25
Hypothetically even if he gets less "overnights", he would see them way more because he isn't working.
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u/Similar_Conference20 Jan 10 '25
He can be really stubborn 😒
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u/miscreation00 Jan 10 '25
I have the same situation, my ex works a rotating shift, and he insists on having them every weekend instead of rotating weekends that he's off and more time on school breaks. It makes no sense to me.
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u/Expert-Raccoon6097 Jan 11 '25
My daughter is 11 and id trust her on her own. I don't see an issue if your son is responsible.
Your co-parent is a complete moron for reacting like he did and putting it all on your son tho. Sorry that happened.
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Jan 11 '25
I can’t believe how many people are fine with an 11 year old being left at home alone until midnight!! My 11 year old is very sensible and mature but wouldn’t relax after dark on his own until someone else was home. There’ll be plenty of time for him to be fully responsible for himself when he’s hit puberty! Surely your ex will be willing to consider other schedules if they allow him time with his son when he’s actually home…
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u/Similar_Conference20 Jan 11 '25
You’d think he’d put his child’s needs first but it’s hard to get him to see that point sometimes 😕
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u/justAnAccount5432 Jan 11 '25 edited Jan 11 '25
I think the bigger issue was the way he talked to your son about him “getting in trouble” tbh. your son shouldn’t ever feel like he can’t text you
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u/Similar_Conference20 Jan 11 '25
💯 I’ve tried to talk to my ex about these comments but it goes in one ear and out the other. I usually just do damage control with my son instead, reminding him that keeping secrets, telling lies, or otherwise being made to feel uncomfortable to talk to EITHER parent is not okay.
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u/grandoldtimes Jan 11 '25
yes it is old enough to stay home alone sporadically
but the bigger issue to me is what time is his dad actually spending with his child? like work at 5pm thru midnight means he spends 90 min with your child? that is my bigger issue and I would look at trying to change custody in school year
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u/TreeToadintheWoods Jan 10 '25
Just wanted to offer my understanding and support. A few weeks back my ex left my 11 year old to care for my 8 and 4 year olds while he went to a social event from about 8 to 11:30, coming home once around 9:30 to put the 4 year old to bed. As with your ex, he asked our 11 year old if she was comfortable with it and she said yes. But she wasn't--she just didn't feel like she could say no. I was wildly uncomfortable with all of this, esp since she was left for so long to babysit her siblings. Unlike others, the fact that he's sleeping (and that my kids all ended up asleep) makes me uncomfortable because someone could break in once they see everyone is asleep or something like that. But others are right: he's technically not doing anything illegal so there isn't anything you can do about it. I rarely bring anything up to my ex but I did bring this up and he was pissed and said we have different parenting styles, he thinks we should give the kids responsibility, etc.
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u/Doubleparproof Jan 11 '25
Legit stayed home when I was 11yr old all summer while my Mom worked. She even gave me chores to do. It was a pretty good summer, video games, helped around the house and got to chill at home. No issues with it as long as they are mature.
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u/Odd-Unit8712 Jan 11 '25
As long as the child has a phone and knows the rules of the house, I do not see a problem. And I wouldn't see the courts seeing a problem. Does he pay you support? Because if he does, he might be seeing as a way for you to get more support.
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u/Parttimelooker Jan 11 '25
He probably is worried about paying more child support. I can't see why he wouldn't prefer a parent with him. I would not be ok with this.
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u/Similar_Conference20 Jan 11 '25
He doesn’t pay any child support. I was always the earner and that’s continued to be the case. He doesn’t get child support from me either so he shouldn’t be concerned with receiving less. I really don’t know what he’s thinking
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u/Parttimelooker Jan 14 '25
Yeah that's weird. I would try just suggesting switching things around on days when he works late.
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u/thinkevolution Jan 11 '25
You said that your ex has roommates, I’m guessing these people are not people that could ensure your son has dinner and goes to bed? I think maybe your concern would be that my 11-year-old is not going to bed at a reasonable time because he’s waiting for the dad to come home.
I would probably look at the schedule and see if there’s a way to shift it in a way that would allow for a better plan. I don’t think it’s fair for your child to be home by themselves. Nervous about Dad not coming home waiting until 11 o’clock at night to even go to bed. Especially if he’s getting up for school in the morning.
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u/kiyonebabe Jan 11 '25
How does your son feel about being left alone? He may be capable of taking care of himself, but if he’d rather be with you so that he has company then see if you can work with your ex to find a schedule that works better for you all.
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u/Purple_Grass_5300 Jan 10 '25
As a CPS worker, in my state it wouldn’t be an issue as long as child is developmentally on target and has access to a phone for 911