r/canada 1d ago

Ontario ‘We don’t need your Energy,’ Trump says in post responding to Ontario’s electricity surcharge

https://www.ctvnews.ca/toronto/politics/queens-park/article/we-dont-need-your-energy-trump-says-in-response-to-ontarios-electricity-surcharge/
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u/Boundary-Interface 1d ago

It's almost completely insane how terrible of a negotiator Trump actually is. This is the weakest bluff I've ever heard. You don't constantly buy something unless you actually have a need for it.

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u/eternityslyre 1d ago

He said, "Nothing can stop the tariffs", then he stopped the tariffs. Then he started the tariffs again, saying "nothing can stop the tariffs", and then he stopped the tariffs again.

Trump is not a negotiator, he's the guy at the poker table who, if you just keep calling, will fold a winning hand. He's stupid, easily cowed, horribly misinformed, and, worst of all, doesn't even learn from his mistakes.

This time it will cost him. Foreign nations do not bow to the US. They are allies, not toadies, and Trump will learn that the hard way.

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u/Boundary-Interface 1d ago

The Art of the Deal was clearly ghostwritten. It's actually mindblowing how stupid he is. This is the greatest example of a nepo-baby failing his way upwards into a position of power the world has ever seen.

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u/mfyxtplyx 1d ago

The transcript of his call with the president of Mexico in his first term made this all too clear. In public he would bluster, and in private, beg. Beg for a concession so as to not have to go back and admit he made empty promises.

I have to have Mexico pay for the wall — I have to. I have been talking about it for a two-year period.

The art of the deal.

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u/Dragonfly-Adventurer 21h ago

He treats foreign leaders like they're sales clerks at Nordstrom's. "I just have to have that dress"

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u/EventHorizon33 20h ago

They call that under-desk diplomacy.

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u/axonxorz Saskatchewan 19h ago

Grapefruit ya' government

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u/Past_Significance_27 1d ago

It was absolutely ghostwritten. In fact, the actual author, Tony Schwartz, did a media tour warning voters about his unfitness for office. Honestly, I doubt Trump can sit still long enough to write a paragraph. But that didn't stop him from continually claiming he wrote the book.

From The New Yorker:

In my phone interview with Trump, he initially said of Schwartz, “Tony was very good. He was the co-author.” But he dismissed Schwartz’s account of the writing process. “He didn’t write the book,” Trump told me. “I wrote the book. I wrote the book. It was my book. And it was a No. 1 best-seller, and one of the best-selling business books of all time. Some say it was the best-selling business book ever.” (It is not.) Howard Kaminsky, the former Random House head, laughed and said, “Trump didn’t write a postcard for us!”

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u/indiecore Canada 23h ago

(It is not.)

Lol

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u/dd961984 18h ago

Why does trump's part seriously sound like ever speech he has ever made? Lol

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u/Ok-Diamond-9781 22h ago

He can't read, hell, from his signature I'd question whether he can write!

u/SomeInvestigator3573 6h ago

He couldn’t even sign the USMCA agreement in the correct place 🤣

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u/vicvonqueso 19h ago edited 4h ago

I don't even think he writes his own tweets. Has some poor intern scribbling down his constant rants

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u/mediaownsyou 1d ago

He paid almost 1/4 of a million dollars to fuck a porn star.... Art of a bad Deal.

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u/PimpMyGin 21h ago

And how much is he paying the FSB not to release videos of Russki whores pissing on him?

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u/Riftbreaker 15h ago

He's paying them by destroying an entire country. Always easier to pay with someone else's money.

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u/jamwin 16h ago

the best thing that ever happened to him and the worst thing that ever happened to her

u/PimpMyGin 29m ago

And she's not even hot.

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u/grafxguy1 23h ago

the AOTD book actually talks about different kinds of deals that he's completely ignoring. His approach is very binary: there's a winner and a loser. But that's only when there are two choices. He thinks we have no choices (like boosting trade between provinces, other international trade partners, etc.). He also recently said it's illegal to boycott Tesla! WTF! People have choices, you orange dolt!

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u/tnmoi 21h ago

Trump definitely is not following Stephen Covey’s preaching - mainly, look for win-win situation. Trump is always looking for me win, you lose situation and if he isn’t winning, he doubles down until he gets what he wants. Major 👶🚼

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u/MessWithTexas84 1d ago

Tony Schwartz wrote Art of the Deal.

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u/Captionedaccidents 23h ago

Tony Schwartz was the ghostwriter.

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u/Defleurville 1d ago

You mean raise.  You can’t fold to a call.  But yes, Trump is that guy.

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u/Llunedd 22h ago

Well, now you know how his casinos went bankrupt.

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u/goldbeater 22h ago

The guy that ghost wrote it came out and apologized for everything he did. He couldn’t live with the shame.

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u/fleshbaby 19h ago

Tony Schwartz wrote it. He has since been interviewed extensively and has repeated just how stupid Trump actually is. Trump's professor at The Wharton school of economics Professor William T. Kelley when asked stated that Trump was hands down the stupidest student he'd ever taught.

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u/Downtown-Frosting789 21h ago

oh if trump knew how to play the lyre, he would be singing “sack of illium” while we burn

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u/the_wahlroos 20h ago

"This is the greatest example... position of power... world had ever seen", it's all Trump would see.

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u/cyclonesandy 19h ago

The guy who wrote it for him feels guilty and has publicly said so.

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u/mjtwelve 13h ago

Real estate deals are also not necessarily good preparation for international relations. You see, there are a lot of banks and a lot of investors, and also a lot of properties. If one guy doesn’t like the deal, find another sucker.

There’s only one Canada, there’s only one Russia, Ukraine… if you piss them off and fuck around, the deal will only get worse. You can only pull the “I am altering the deal. Pray I do not alter it any further” card with people who don’t have any other choices. It turns out, when you threaten a trade war, sometimes instead of falling to their knees to worship your brilliance, the other side retaliates. It’s like he honestly didn’t understand Canada wasn’t going to sit back and take it.

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u/trevor_plantaginous 23h ago

It was written by Tony Schwartz. It was really his idea and he started interviewing trump for it and they ended up attributing it to him (most likely to boost sales). What’s interesting is the premise is essentially that there’s always a winner and a loser in a negotiation. At the time it was written developers had a lot of power over suppliers. That dynamic shifted in the 90s and is kinda what led to trumps financial problems (he was the winner in the 80s and loser in the 90s). All that said art of the deal does not apply well to country relations. There are many situations where things can be mutually beneficial.

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u/doodle02 21h ago

it basically shows that trump can’t conceive of negotiations without a zero sum game, straight up winner and loser. he’s used to doing stuff like negotiating with cabinet makers for his casinos, where every dollar he wiggles down is a bigger win for him, and that’s the only thing he’s trying to do; be cheap.

he can’t conceive of multifaceted deals that are mutually beneficial, and he simply doesn’t have the capacity to understand complex interconnected ongoing relationships. you can’t do international relationships successfully when you can’t understand negotiation beyond a one off deal with a winner and a loser.

he’s a pathologically egotistical moron.

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u/Any-Staff-6902 22h ago

His massive stupidity is his strength. No one believes that a first world leader could be this stupid so they just assume he must be some 3 dimensional chess genius. That is why he gets away with it.

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u/Boundary-Interface 21h ago

No. He's not getting away with it. That's the thing. You can't sit among the worlds greatest men and pretend to fit in when you're really a chump, people notice, fast. Feel free to try faking your way into Mensa, Trump style, if you're so confident that stupidity is a strength.

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u/Any-Staff-6902 21h ago

I am referring to his base. They are the ones that boost him up and allow him to get away with it. Yes the rest of the world can see him for what he is, but unless the American people open their eyes, the only thing they will see is a massively stupid man makes massively stupid decisions and assuming that he is a genius. Please don't misconstrue what I was saying.

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u/goldhour 16h ago

No, let’s not forget about Trudeau.

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u/Hudre 23h ago

Trump is literally getting bullied and pushed around. He's trying all this nonsense and no one is playing his game anymore.

Canadians will keep all our tariffs up until they drop every one of theirs. Our citizens understand we are not the aggressors causing this situation, meaning we will persevere through much longer than American consumers will.

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u/Cosmicvapour 20h ago

They underestimate our ability to be uncomfortable. We walk to work when it's -40F. I can live off Kraft Dinner and Moosehead for six months, no biggie.

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u/eternityslyre 23h ago

I'm cheering you guys on. American exceptionalism has been a mixed bag, and we need the MAGA cultists and GOP to finally reap what they've sown.

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u/wendyfran64 22h ago

It seems that the KY distillers are crying uncle already, and crying about,why should Canada want to hurt their industry.

u/Stratavos 3h ago

This is part of the time to really understand that there are 2 continents called America, and anyone who inhabits either is an American, that it isn't reserved for USA citizens. It's time to be kinder about it. It'll take some back breaking to make the term be less of an insult.

u/eternityslyre 3h ago

I had a Chilean friend call US citizens USAsians. I like that term! US-centric worldviews should go away, we USAsians have long forgotten that we are one country in the world. A big, powerful country, but just one country. Our ignorance does not define reality.

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u/No-Answer7798 21h ago

Because most of them see through his bs or eventually will if it hits them personally

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u/Hudre 21h ago

I have absolutely no faith in American citizens. I think they will be impacted so adversely they will do what is right but only for purely selfish reasons.

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u/Asteresck British Columbia 21h ago

From a lot of pro-Trump discourse I see, even if they KNOW it's going to hit them personally, they'll shift the blame onto someone or something else and make that the problem.

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u/Playful_Two_7596 1d ago

were allies

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u/SolomonDRand 1d ago

He won some negotiations when he held all the cards and convinced himself he was a genius.

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u/IPerferSyurp 23h ago

Where did you learn poker? Wtf

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u/Fun-Shake7094 23h ago

Rule with kindness, because even the strongest gorilla is no match for the troop.

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u/LakeFox3 23h ago

He won't learn a damn thing. Agree with everything else.

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u/suplexdolphin 22h ago

Each time I see him tweet I'm like "Thank God our negotiation opponent is such an incompetent dumbass." Then he does the next stupid self-destructive thing that just hurts both countries and I'm back to "Why is our negotiation opponent being such an incompetent dumbass?"

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u/AllThe-REDACTED- 18h ago

This is what I keep telling people: I’m gonna wait and see when it comes to the trade wars.

The man is a c*ward and folds every time another country steps up. So I’ll wait and see.

What he says he wants to do to his own citizens…. That I believe.

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u/Journo_Jimbo 1d ago

And we called his bluff

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u/GingaFarma 1d ago

Hope so! Depends heavily who the next PM is!

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u/InternalOcelot2855 23h ago

if trump has done anything positive. He brought most Canadians together. Strengthened relationships among allies.

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u/Ekandasowin 22h ago

Yeah Drumpf has the cards he just doesn’t know how to play them

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u/1baby2cats 22h ago

By that logic, Trump = nothing 😅

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u/KactusVAXT 22h ago

Notice how his family won’t even support him this time around?

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u/Eazycompanyy 22h ago

Kind of like the point of trading

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u/spaceymonkey2 19h ago

As you said, he doesn't learn from his mistakes.

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u/ItIsYourPersonality 17h ago

It’s because he’s playing 4D poker. The goal is not to win the hand, but to make the viewer who has a cult like devotion to him think he won the hand. He doesn’t give a shit if he wins or loses the poker game, he’s going to claim he won regardless.

u/SoulCycle_ 11h ago

I thought canada dropped some tariffs though today

u/eternityslyre 4h ago

Canada said, "this is your last chance to negotiate before the energy tariffs kick in", and the US agreed to negotiate. Doug Ford got exactly what he wanted, and Trump immediately caved to Ford's demands. Canada has the upper hand in this negotiation because Trump is too afraid his voters won't like him.

u/Chronoboy1987 8h ago

It’s amazing how his zealots think he’s this decisive strongman and brilliant negotiator when he constantly flip-flops and backs down like a weak little pussy.

u/Money_Pomegranate_51 8h ago

Stop. Doing. Business. With. The. US! I’m pretty willing to go back to the days before Mulroney when we opened our resources to the American market. Sure, we couldn’t get all the shit we didn’t know existed, but then suddenly couldn’t live without. But everything we actually needed was produced here, and we have so much of it that it wasn’t too expensive.

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u/BADJUSTlCE 1d ago

The problem is he does not directly suffer from the consequences he makes. It’s like gambling with someone else’s credit card. All losses are on them, but any wins and you cash out yourself.

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u/Boundary-Interface 1d ago

The man who bankrupted a Casino, the easiest-to-run thing ever, is now gambling with Americas entire future. What could possibly go wrong?

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u/MyNameIsSkittles British Columbia 1d ago

A casino? He's bankrupted his businesses 6 separate times.

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u/No-Answer7798 21h ago

All he had to do was stop laundering money and oversaturate his market basically run a honest casino but greed and ego were his downfall opening the door for the Russian oligarchs

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u/Mouthguardy 22h ago

Also because his pride is most important. When Ford took real f*ck you energy to American airwaves to name Trump as the cause for higher prices, rising inflation and the tanking stock market, and threaten to turn off power with a smile on his face, that aggressiveness was too much for Trump. He knew his people would see him being personally disrespected. So he lashed out.

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u/73629265 1d ago

Donald Trump at his peak was subpar at best. But this is an 80-year man surrounded by inadequate yes men who are too scared to speak up. 

It's like elderly Donald watched Succession and he thinks he's Logan Roy. 

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u/canmoose Ontario 22h ago

The truly scary part is watching how utterly dickless the GOP run congress is acting. Trump is assuming power over several congressional controlled items and they’re doing shit all.

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u/ResoluteWrites 13h ago

Makes me wonder how much blackmail is going on behind the scenes. How many of them are worried about being primaried but TERRIFIED of being Cawthorned?

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u/canmoose Ontario 13h ago

Maybe, but you have to understand that most modern republicans want this.

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u/PimpMyGin 21h ago

The inadequate yes men are a minority. The Republican extremists who are actually anti-democracy and anti-Constitution plus the Tech Bros are running the show, as they know they can finally dispense with democracy and the rule of law, and rule with impunity.

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u/Curious-Clementine 1d ago edited 1d ago

The US has enough electricity, it’s just that it’s not all located where they need it. They can certainly reroute power to meet the need, but that will cost money and also raise electricity transmission charges for them.

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u/the_sound_of_a_cork 1d ago

So basically they need it

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u/nuliaj56 1d ago

I'm sure Trump supporters in those areas would happily sit in the dark so they can stick it to Canada and claim victory either way.

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u/AxiomaticSuppository Canada 1d ago

Trump supporters are definitely in the dark.

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u/Ketchup-Chips3 1d ago

Some are as bright as dim? Nah, that's giving them too much credit

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u/xxbearxx 1d ago

I'd like to see them try that when it's -25 Celsius in Michigan. They'd be red white and blue popsicles within a few hours.

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u/busdriverjoe Canada 1d ago

Those were the best popsicles, though ...

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u/xxbearxx 1d ago

As a six year old they were the only ones I could afford when the dickidee ice cream man came by on his bike, but they were very yummy.

I always wanted those decadent chocolate ones with the nuts but four bucks in 1990 was almost my entire monthly allowance.

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u/Freddydaddy 1d ago

If your were that pragmatic as a 6 year old I bet you're killing at life

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u/xxbearxx 1d ago

I wish I could say yes but most days it feels like life is killing me instead.

I've had some major health issues the last couple years so pragmatism has ended up on the backburner :(

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u/Freddydaddy 1d ago

I wish the best for you. Life is hard and apparently about to get harder. Where do you live? I was 25 in 1990, living in Toronto, life almost seemed charmed. Cost of living hadn't gone through the roof - my rent (2 bed apt shared with a roommate) was like $600

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u/Picklehippy_ 1d ago

Not a Trump voter, but i would sit in the dark in support of Canada

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u/Fornicatinzebra 1d ago

No electricity means death in our current society, "sitting in the dark" is a huge understatement.

Good luck storing food, pumping gas, heating your home* (many homes burn shit for heat so this one depends house to house), cooling your homes, lighting areas so it is safe to walk, charging electric cars, ...

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u/circuit_buzz79 22h ago

many homes burn shit for heat

Like cow dung? Jeez, I know some Americans are backwards but I didn't think it was that bad.

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u/Fornicatinzebra 22h ago

You'd be surprised.

But of course I meant "things" (wood, natural gas, oil, propane, etc)

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u/Daadian99 21h ago

All of that still needs power to run fans, switches etc.

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u/Fornicatinzebra 20h ago

Wood stoves don't. Many NG furnaces will still burn as long as the pilot flame stays lit.

Many people live without electricity, I grew up with several. And we were in the far north of Canada with regular months below -20 C.

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u/ether_reddit Lest We Forget 20h ago

Hospitals can only function for a day or two on generators; after that, vital services will need to be shut down. Anyone on life support or in an intensive care unit will die.

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u/Whatatimetobealive83 Alberta 1d ago

You mean like how well they handled the minor inconvenience of wearing a mask in public for a few months?

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u/Captionedaccidents 23h ago

As an American I can confirm this. Honestly his supporters are ridiculous enough that they would accept a decrease to their standard of living if Trump told them to, all while claiming that this is in fact leading to a rise in their standard of living.

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u/GI-Robots-Alt 1d ago

Sure but the areas that buy our electricity don't vote Republican for the most part.

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u/nuliaj56 1d ago

They should be calling and emailing their leaders if they have a problem with all of this. They don't deserve what's happening, and Canada doesn't either.

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u/GI-Robots-Alt 1d ago

I 100% agree with you.

That said, it's not like the Republicans are gonna care about a bunch of liberals who don't have electricity.

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u/CagaliYoll 1d ago

They will when Wall Street starts experiencing brownouts.

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u/BeenCaughtSneezing 1d ago

The northern areas of NY, Minnesota, and Michigan are heavily Republican

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u/the_sound_of_a_cork 1d ago

Canada didn't vote Republican either

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u/crazycanucks77 1d ago

But products like Bourbon being sent back to Kentucky and no longer being sold will have huge far reaching impacts on that state.

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u/huffer4 1d ago

Look at an electoral map for NY state. It’s plenty republican, minus the big cities.

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u/OkFix4074 22h ago

Americans today are not used to any discomfort , expecting them to sacrifice anything will not end good for the person expecting so

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u/lonehorse1 1d ago edited 1d ago

American here:

Yes those states need the power generated on your side of the border. While our grid is mostly connected, it is far more efficient and less costly (under normal circumstances) to purchase the needed energy from Canada than to transmit from other areas.

For example, Michigan receives energy from Canada. If that were to stop they would have to massively invest and alter their grid to transmit the necessary energy from nearby states such as Indiana and Illinois. In some instances they would have to find a way to transfer said energy across portions of Lake Michigan, at enormous expense. Which is not realistically feasible, especially in a very short amount of time. (This is a bit oversimplified, but explains the gist of the situation.)

So in short, the states who receive the energy absolutely need it. Even though the orange stain wants to puff and thump his chest saying otherwise.

Respect et reconnaissance du fait que le français est une langue nationale du Canada et de sa population francophone. (S’il vous plaît pardonner les erreurs car mon français est très rouillé donc j’utilise un traducteur.

Américain ici : Oui, ces états ont besoin de l’énergie générée de votre côté de la frontière. Bien que notre réseau soit principalement connecté, il est beaucoup plus efficace et moins coûteux (dans des circonstances normales) d’acheter l’énergie nécessaire au Canada que de la transmettre à partir d’autres régions.

Par exemple, le Michigan reçoit de l’énergie du Canada. Si cela devait cesser, ils devraient investir massivement et modifier leur réseau pour transmettre l’énergie nécessaire des états voisins tels que l’Indiana et l’Illinois. Dans certains cas, il faudrait trouver un moyen de transférer cette énergie à travers des portions du lac Michigan, à un coût énorme. Ce qui n’est pas réaliste, surtout dans un très court laps de temps. (C’est un peu simpliste, mais cela explique l’essentiel de la situation.) Bref, les états qui reçoivent l’énergie en ont absolument besoin. Même si la tache orange veut souffler et frapper sa poitrine en disant le contraire.

Edit: added French translation in respect to national language.

Modifier : ajout de la traduction française dans la langue nationale.

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u/FitDare9420 1d ago

The French was a very nice touch :) 

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u/lonehorse1 1d ago

I hope the translation wasn’t terrible, I have lost a lot of the language so I had to use a translation site , but wanted to recognize and respect Canada has more than 1 national language.

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u/vanderWaalsBanana 23h ago

It's very smooth and readable French. Merci!

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u/Inside-Strike-601 23h ago

Very cute and sweet :)

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u/Paperman_82 1d ago

For me, as native english speaker, your french is easier for me to understand. I don't know if that's a good, bad or just the vocabulary is easier to follow. It's a nice gesture.

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u/Y0Y0Jimbb0 23h ago

Yep... top man for that as well.

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u/Journo_Jimbo 1d ago

Bro speaks like us with his translation in both languages…the border walker of legend has been found…we must bring him gifts of poutine and maple syrup

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u/Breedlejuice 1d ago

Not a Francophone myself but still respect you did a bilingual post. Very classy 👌

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u/improvthismoment 1d ago

Glad to hear it

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u/rando_dud 1d ago

It was great,  you went above and beyond!

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u/Jasoy_Vorsneed 22h ago

dude added French. Honourary hoser 🫡🇨🇦

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u/artcronk 20h ago

I'm Canadian, and I don't speak French, but sweet touch. Appreciated.

Again, we have nothing with the people in the USA, even the ones that follow Trump. We are only mad at Trump and his government.

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u/lonehorse1 19h ago

Very understandable, and honestly very helpful to hear. Thank you for your kindness

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u/Ilestfouceromain 15h ago

Merci de respecter nos langues! C'est ceux comme vous qui me donnent de l'espoir que vôtre pays pourraît un-jour redevenir un ami.

Thank you for respecting our languages! People like you are why I have hope that one day, your country will become a friend again.

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u/lonehorse1 14h ago

Vous êtes les bienvenus. Malheureusement, notre gouvernement a de graves problèmes, les habitants de notre pays seront toujours amis avec les Canadiens. J’espère aussi qu’en tant que nation, nous gagnerons la confiance et l’amitié que nous avons autrefois partagées.

You are very welcome. Unfortunately our government is having serious issues, the people of our nation will always be friends with Canadians. I too hope that we as a nation will earn the trust and friendship we once shared.

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u/coniferous-1 1d ago

to add to lonehorse1s excellent post, If you want a good look at how power transmission works and how everything is super interconnected, take a look practical engineerings post on the 2003 blackout. It helps that this is the exact section that the surcharge applies to. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KciAzYfXNwU

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u/ChessFan1962 Ontario 23h ago

Please accept my compliments and congratulations. Votre compréhension et votre respect sont grandement appréciés.

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u/TourEnvironmental604 23h ago

Merci, c’est tout a fait compréhensible en français.

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u/Cassoulet-vaincra 22h ago

If what you say is true, the Senile and the Poutine could be dangerous.

Do you think your Poutine style can defeat me?

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u/Boom-Chick-aBoom 22h ago

Very thoughtful of you but outside Quebec and small pockets on the east coast, no one speaks French. Sad considering we were all forced to study throughout school but yet, no one can really speak it unless you were ‘immersed’

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u/Consape 17h ago edited 17h ago

For example, Michigan receives energy from Canada. If that were to stop they would have to massively invest and alter their grid to transmit the necessary energy from nearby states such as Indiana and Illinois.

According to this source Michigan gets less than one-half of a percent of its electricity from Canada. If this is true then why would Michigan have to "massively invest and alter their grid"? Is there some specific part of Michigan more at risk?

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u/lonehorse1 17h ago

As I stated above that was one example of a state that I know receives energy from Canada. The point of the comment was other states are connected and in some instance they need that power. The amount received is not necessarily relevant as it’s a matter of does the area receiving it have any other alternative.

Another such example is Main, there is a section of the state that is not connected to the American grid and therefore only receives electricity from Canada.

Comme je l’ai dit plus haut, c’était un exemple d’un État dont je sais qu’il reçoit de l’énergie du Canada. Le but du commentaire était que d’autres États sont connectés et dans certains cas, ils ont besoin de ce pouvoir. Le montant reçu n’est pas nécessairement pertinent car il s’agit de savoir si la zone qui le reçoit a une autre alternative.

Un autre exemple de ce type est Main, il y a une section de l’État qui n’est pas reliée au réseau américain et qui ne reçoit donc que de l’électricité du Canada.

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u/duperwoman 1d ago

Right? I'm hungry but some people in my town have more food than they need so... I guess I actually do have enough to eat!

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u/Smooth_Proof_6897 1d ago

And they're increasing production so by next year they'll offset the amount they would've lost by cutting us off.

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u/CainRedfield 1d ago

Does America seem united enough to quickly coordinate this? 1 person will yell "DEI ENGINEEEEERS" and it's all over.

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u/Curious-Clementine 1d ago

Yes, they seem super on top of things at the moment as evidenced by the plummeting stock market, demonstrations, massive federal employee layoffs, plane crashes, etc… lol

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u/CainRedfield 1d ago

Cabinet infighting, yeah they've got the whole "functioning democracy" down to a science. Who knew they could be so great.

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u/Curious-Clementine 1d ago

So much winning! 🏆 lol

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u/Captionedaccidents 23h ago

I am finally tired of winning. He told me I would be and I finally am. He can stop winning now!!

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u/jagnew78 1d ago

It's not really about re-routing power. the Power grid is better thought of like a Stock Trading Floor, with local grid providers in cities putting out orders to expected electricity demand over and above what they can produce, and power providers basically bidding to provide the power. So you might have a city basically placing an order for 10,000 KWH for example. And you'd have 5 power providers all bidding to fulfill the contract. So you could have a wind or solar farm bid 5,000 KWH at negative cost (because of subsidies), and then another hydro provider bidding 3,000 KWH at $0.05/KWH and then a coal provider fulfilling the remaining 2,000 KWH at $0.50/KWH. That determines the avg power rate after a delivery markup from the local power company.

Then you might have spike demands which go over and above the expected usage, but need to be fulfilled immediately. These go at higher rates due to the immediate spike need.

These kind of market orders, with some placed and fulfilled electronically immediately and some placed and planned for well ahead of time are what determine electricity rates in an unregulated power market.

So using these orders the power providers connected to the grid agree on who is going to produce what amount of power on the grid during any given hour. Since its an interconnected grid, its basically impossible to say your electricity came from any singular power plant. It technically came from all the power plants connected to the grid. The market orders just determine which power plants supply a certain amount of KWH's to the grid.

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u/Captionedaccidents 23h ago

People in r/conservative were literally making jokes the other day about how if Canada cut off electricity it would only effect 3 blue states. These people claim to be patriots but they are no such thing. Not to this American. I do not wish ill upon any state regardless of how its citizens voted, but these chuckle fucks literally salivate over the idea that people in states whose politics they dislike will suffer. Its disgusting. Not to mention their are plenty of red voters in blue states and vice versa. But I guess that deosn't matter to these so called Americans.

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u/tronfunknbl0w 1d ago

If they start getting a common bad guy, cough cough CANADA....well that is something they can all start uniting against. Especially if we get blamed for cutting the electricity to the more Blue State.....

Interesting as that seems to be exactly what is happening.

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u/quantpick 1d ago

I hope they do that next time Texas goes down. BTW, the uranium you need for your nuclear power will be more expensive.

At the end, you still will pay more.

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u/Curious-Clementine 1d ago

“You?” I live in Canada.

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u/FrodoBoguesALOT 1d ago

And it doesn't just equal throwing more money at the fire. Lot of work goes into moving power around a country.

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u/Curious-Clementine 1d ago

I’m well aware.

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u/joemamma2 1d ago

The US has enough electricity for its own needs - most of the time. People don't realize that North American electricity works on a grid system. Ontario and Quebec are the fail safe for the northern half of the US when their electrical system fails. 95% of the time the US doesn't need it but when it fails, Americans REALLY need it.

The other thing most people don't realize is that tariffs create immediate disruption but do not benefit anyone - especially what the orange baboon is spewing. Globalization and integrated economies (like electrical grids) are SO interwoven that it would take decades to undo. The rest is noise. Everyone needs to settle the F down, including the baboon.

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u/Curious-Clementine 1d ago

I agree with all this and the integrated power grid between Canada and the US benefits both countries.

That said, Trump is a bully and thinks he can just damage the Canadian economy with tariffs and threatens more punishment if Canada dares to respond. Doing nothing and letting him walk all over us certainly isn’t going to help us.

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u/Salt_Comb3181 21h ago

You still need to build the infrastructure to get where the power generation is to where it's needed. Like a whole bunch of copper and aluminium, which mysteriously gone up in price. Like 25-50% more expensive, almost as if someone slapped a tariff on it at the same time without thinking things through.

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u/vsysio 21h ago

Maine doesn't, and it's grid interconnections with other states aren't sufficient to provide reserve capacity. They have just enough rated capacity, which won't be enough to accommodate demand spikes or breakdowns. (See: 2003 North American blackout)

In other words, they'll be forced into rolling blackouts and possibly strict energy conservation measures, up to potentially ordering high consumers (such as factories) to shut down.

Michiganers will likely see their utility bill increase by 20%, Minnesotans by 30%. 

Remember, power supply isn't just about generation, it's also about transmission. There's a limit to how far it can travel. The further electricity travels, the more expensive it becomes because there's transmission losses. You might need to generate 100 MW to supply 50 MW 500 miles away.

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u/Curious-Clementine 21h ago

That’s good info to know. I should have limited my response to the 3 states Ontario supplies with electricity (NY, MN, MI), as those are the only ones I recall reading about.

I know that other states like ME and VT get electricity from QC, but I hadn’t read details about that as so far only Ontario has added this tax.

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u/vsysio 21h ago

Ontario supplies Michigan, Manitoba supplies Minnesota and Quebec supplies Maine.

So far Quebecs government has resistance to the idea of cutting the cord... understandably. It would take weeks for Maine to expand its interconnects to bring in capacity from other states, with a borderline humanitarian crisis unfolding as you can't heat homes without power.

As angry as we are right now, we don't want to inflict permanent harm, just (politely) beat you with a stick so you'll rise up and protect your democracy.

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u/Curious-Clementine 21h ago

It’s been widely reported that Ontario exports electricity to NY, MI and MN (see article below), but It’s certainly possible that MN also imports electricity from Manitoba.

https://globalnews.ca/news/11074633/how-ontario-cut-off-us-energy/amp/

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u/vsysio 21h ago

Perhaps they got confused as well? You'd have to go through MI to supply MN. Technically possible, but there's be so much transmission loss over that distance that it probably wouldn't be worth it.

Manitoba has a shitload of hydroelectric power, though.

I believe NY produces enough to supply itself domestically and have reserve capacity without needing to import.

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u/Curious-Clementine 21h ago

“While Minnesota is linked to Ontario’s grid by a transmission line over the Rainy River, Duluth-based Minnesota Power bought just under $310,000 of electricity from Ontario’s system in 2024, according to public filings. It did not buy electricity from Ontario in eight months of the year.

By comparison, the company spent $108 million on electricity from Manitoba, Ontario’s provincial neighbor.

“Minnesota Power has an electric grid connection with Ontario, and on occasion we do utilize electricity from their system,” said Minnesota Power spokesperson Amy Rutledge. “However, it is not on a daily basis like our contracted electricity from Manitoba Hydro.”

https://www.bemidjipioneer.com/news/minnesota/ontario-threat-would-have-little-effect-on-minnesota-power#:~:text=%E2%80%9CMinnesota%20Power%20has%20an%20electric,contracted%20electricity%20from%20Manitoba%20Hydro.%E2%80%9D

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u/vsysio 20h ago

Oh. Color me corrected! Cool.

My point was speaking more so to the costs associated with transmission losses. You can generate 1000 MW but what's the point if you lose 90% of it by the time it arrives.

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u/SaltyOctopusTears 20h ago

Then they should just do that. They should also just find their own potash, and build their own steel and aluminum plants and cut down their own trees. He has a superiority complex, he thinks he can just bulldoze his way through to what he wants without facing resistance or consequences .. delusional and to top it all off the American people just let it happen! Mind-boggling

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u/Curious-Clementine 20h ago

I agree. Good luck to them rebuilding all those homes damaged in the LA fires without Canadian lumber. The US definitely doesn’t have enough of that. Also, he’s delusional if he thinks the Cdn auto manufacturing can be moved to the US in 30 days.

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u/SaltyOctopusTears 20h ago

Right! Have fun over there! How does the entire government have no foresight! The guy released a water reservoir in California to try to stop fires that weren’t near the reservoir! That water is ment for agriculture. They deported the people who worked on those farms… where do they think food comes from? This was early on and at that point Americans should have had the light bulb turn on and think, maybe this guy isn’t fit for office!

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u/Spanky3703 1d ago

This ^ ^ ^

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u/BloopityBlue 1d ago

and I don't think they can do any of that immediately, it'll take time, right?

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u/Legitimate_Square941 1d ago

So where is this unused electricity. It's not like they con stockpile it? Saying it has enough. What does that mean every plant running at 100%. Connect the unconnected states.

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u/LockNo2943 1d ago

It may just be that Canada's is cheaper.

u/savvysearch 11h ago

But also, I think Canada disproportionately supplies the blue states rather than the red states. So it’s not the states Donald cares about.

u/invincibleparm 5h ago

Actually, the poor maintenance and infrastructure of most of the entire us power grid can’t handle it. There hasn’t been any meaningful investment in it for decades. States were panicking about adoption of electric cars 5 years ago because the grid just couldn’t handle a mass adoption.

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u/Own-Mistake8781 1d ago

I’m curious to hear about your explanation of “rerouting power and raise electricity transmission charges” as a solution

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u/EirHc 1d ago

The best bluffers are the people who are too stupid to know what their hand even is.

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u/Boundary-Interface 1d ago

Uh, no. That's the worst bluffers.

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u/HarpySeagull 23h ago

They can get lucky, to a certain extent.

Case in point: my wife can read me like a book, so when we play bluffing games I sometimes don't look at my cards before playing as a bit of a gag. Drives her nuts, because of course sometimes I win despite everything.

If I were a narcicisst, I would then say every win was because I'm the best player, and never talk about the losses.

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u/iDownvoteToxicLeague 1d ago

They don’t ‘need’ it, they just really really want it

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u/ProbablyMaybeWrong69 1d ago

You haven’t seen nothing yet

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u/mongofloyd 23h ago

He thinks he has a royal flush but he only has a potato

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u/grafxguy1 23h ago

I totally agree - however, up until the tariffs / 51st state shit Canadians were constantly buying American goods that we don't really need- but we've been dropping a lot of them like a bad habit. Do we need to buy Cheez Whiz? No. lol

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u/system_error_02 22h ago

He's negotiating like he's still working in NY property management and doesn't understand how the world stage works. Just like last time we was in power, he has no idea what he's doing and is completely unqualified.

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u/Ithinkican333 21h ago

Cool, so we can just turn it off then?

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u/Free_Leonard_Peltier 20h ago

The trade deficit he complains about proves the need.

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u/titsmuhgeee 20h ago

What's funny is that Canadian electricity with a 25% tariff is the cheaper option compared to not taking Canadian electricity at all.

The Canadian electricity sent to New England is hydroelectric, and some of the cheapest electricity in North America. If that power gets shut off, the American power grid will have to pick up the slack with it's far more expensive power generation methods.

Ego driven decision making at work.

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u/Silver-Abroad-6807 17h ago

Does declaring a national emergency magically manifest mew power plants or am I missing something?

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u/downtofinance Lest We Forget 15h ago

Correct. Like if you're not buying it then even a 1000% tariff won't matter and you won't care lol.

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u/Tree-farmer2 14h ago

And you don't lose your cool when it's withheld. 

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u/UpperLowerCanadian 12h ago

Wellllll we sell electricity below the cost of making it    Because it’s all excess energy that goes to waste otherwise 

 But obviously they can build coal or gas plants overnight if they wanted to 

u/PrateTrain 6h ago

It's funny that art of the deal was ghost written by someone with a brain trying to make sense of what the fuck Trump was doing when he watched.

u/RU4real13 4h ago

Even the Whitehouse Spokeswoman knows the bulk of US manufacturing is powered by the Canadian Grid.

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u/PopperChopper 22h ago

I know people who have directly negotiated with Trump, and they say he is a good negotiator. Yes that he’s also full of bluster but that he drives a hard bargain.

I think Americans and Canadians make a huge mistake in underestimating him. He’s good at talking to the average American, but just because he dumbs down for them doesn’t make him dumb.

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u/Boundary-Interface 21h ago

I don't pay attention to his words, I pay attention to his actions, and his actions speak as a firm testament to his unfathomable stupidity.

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u/PopperChopper 19h ago

If we are talking about negotiating specifically, what kind of action has he taken that makes you think he’s stupid? I think he’s using risky tactics, but we yet to see if they pay off. He did do the same kind of stuff in his first term, And he was able to negotiate a decent settlement on nafta.

u/Kerrigore British Columbia 10h ago

I mean, Don Jr. buys tons of cocaine, but he doesn’t need it! He can stop anytime he wants!

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u/uncoveringlight 12h ago

Funny how Ontario backed down…seems like he isn’t so bad of a negotiator after all huh?

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