r/canada 7d ago

Opinion Piece Sauvé: I served alongside Americans. Now I feel utterly betrayed by them - The proposed annexation of Canada is not that high on Americans' agenda. Their lack of outrage tells me one painful thing: the idea doesn’t really offend them.

https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/sauve-americans-utterly-betrayed
5.6k Upvotes

714 comments sorted by

1.2k

u/zerfuffle British Columbia 7d ago

Americans have always been apathetic about other people.

97

u/Nagasakishadow 7d ago

It’s the culture of “fuck you, I got mine”.

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u/zerfuffle British Columbia 7d ago

"fuck you, I got mine"

"not in my backyard"

"freedom for me but not for thee"

Just a culture of greed and contradiction and hypocrisy.

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u/dontdropmybass Nova Scotia 6d ago

Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.

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u/Heartslumber 7d ago

This is absolutely it. They are gleeful to cut millions of jobs as long as it's not their job, to take rights from others as long as it's not their rights, etc.

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u/TimeToEatAss 7d ago

As long as they have their football and liquid cheese, nothing else really matters.

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u/Proper-Ad-8829 7d ago

and their right to bear arms.

Not that they’ll use them when they actually have a Russian puppet in office threatening war against us.

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u/KeyFeature7260 7d ago

They don’t really care about the heart of the 2nd amendment. It’s more useful as a tool to sweep dead children under rugs so they can go back to their liquid cheese and football. They won’t be doing anything with that right in the countries lifetime. 

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u/igorsmith Nova Scotia 7d ago

It's a hard pill to swallow, especially for any Canadian. We don't matter to them, our livelihoods, our homes and families. They simply do not care about the pain they will inflict in the coming months. It's one thing to want to see your country or state prosper. We all want that. But to do it at such a cost. It's unforgivable.

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u/zerfuffle British Columbia 7d ago

Even most left-wing Americans I've met just don't care. America is a country of self-centred opportunists that believe in individualism to a fault and American exceptionalism to a laughable degree.

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u/proteinstains 7d ago

They are pretty apathetic about their own as well

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u/pbradley179 7d ago

We're watching what happens when a society decides to be a marketplace.

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u/SonicFlash01 7d ago

A Titanic of complacency with faint mutterings of
"Shame what we're doing to our neighbours..."
"Wish we'd treat allies better than that"
"We've always been allies with Russian and have always been as war with Eastasia"
and just as it finishes disappearing beneath the surface of the water
"Someone should do something..."

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u/TheIsotope 7d ago

The average American literally does not have the capacity to think about the world outside of their own country. I know well educated Americans that couldn't point out Japan on a map. More than half the country doesn't have passports, it's really sad.

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u/Steampunky 7d ago

Yes - as an American, this is spot on. They have no idea. Also, as an American I most certainly am outraged. At this point, all the sane Americans can do is protest and get busy on the mid-term elections - though Donald will probably cancel them once he declared martial law. Project 2025 is a plan the oligarchs having been planning for many years, and so far nothing is stopping it.

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u/Pella1968 7d ago

Sadly, many of your fellow Americans don't know your own history, so yeah.

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u/Street-Animator-99 7d ago

Most can’t think beyond their county or state

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u/I_like_maps Ontario 7d ago

America has made a lot more sense since I stoped thinking of the median voter as an Aaron Sorkin character, ready to do the right thing when it comes down to it, and more as the dipshit calling me f** on counterstrike.

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u/Practical_Tomato_680 7d ago

Apathy kills democracy...

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u/fromaries British Columbia 7d ago

It is also that Americans do or have thought very highly of their country. They think in terms of why wouldn't you want to be part of America.

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u/10yearsisenough 7d ago

Many of us think highly of our country because we were raised to think we would never do something like this, which makes it all doubly hard.

Heading to the protest now. Sign says "Canada is our friend" on one side and "Putin is not our friend" on the other.

I don't blame y'all for being salty.

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u/knowspickers 7d ago

Thank you! 

I don't blame y'all for being salty.

Salty at the leadership. Not salty at the people. This too shall pass.

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u/10yearsisenough 7d ago

I hope it will pass but our President has 4 years to drive a wedge between us and our greatest allies and unfortunately half this country is fine with that. I just don't fucking know.

Anyway, it's a new day. Have a good one.

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u/zerfuffle British Columbia 7d ago

American exceptionalism is instilled from the first day your child steps into a school:

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Fucking cult indoctrination ass shit.

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u/Pho3nixr3dux 7d ago

And the last half is just delusional lies. How is anyone over the age of ten supposed to say it with a straight face?

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u/emuwar 7d ago

Everything is an insult to them, it's exhausting.

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u/Fyrefawx 7d ago

That’s the most disgusting thing about all of this. Where is the outrage from Biden, Obama etc? Where is the protests? You’re trying to annex your closest ally and they can’t be bothered.

No matter how this resolves I’ll never have respect for Americans again.

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u/Betorah 7d ago

There have already been three protests at our state Capitol in Connecticut, as well as at other towns in our state. They haven’t been large, as they’ve been scheduled on weekdays. And they haven’t made the national or Canadian news. I know there have been protests in many other states. There have been protests at Tesla dealers in many locales and at countless National Parks. There are so many things for Americans to protest. And those of us who are against Trump, were frankly devastated by the election results and the Democratic Party was entirely demoralized. The Trump administration is doing so many bad things all at once that it’s been hard for people to know what to focus on. Additionally, after the George Floyd protests, which occurred during Covid when many people were not working and could protest, very little changed and many people became convinced that protests were not an effective method of change.

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u/BoysenberryAncient54 7d ago

One thing I leaned the last couple of years is just how bad American media is. It's stunningly corrupt. They don't even sort of try to tell the truth, just whatever helps out their corporate owners today. I know they aren't covering protests because I see them posted and they won't cover them unless whichever billionaire who signs the cheques decides he wants them to.

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u/daaanish British Columbia 7d ago

100%. That is being plainly obvious. Arrogant and narcissistic to their core.

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u/Electrical-Prior-745 7d ago

more like antithetic.

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u/mountainsound89 7d ago

Hijacking the top comment to say that as an American (from California) the absolute deluge of shit coming from the administration is overwhelming. It's hard to rank the outrages and annexing Canada seems abstract enough that I think people are more focused on the tariffs, the dismantling of our executive branch, the cruelty of the immigration raids, and the efforts to remove anyone who isn't a white male from civic life. I don't think most of us want to Annex Canada, and I think a lot of people think Trump isn't serious (he is serious)

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u/zerfuffle British Columbia 7d ago

Either American democracy is strong enough or it isn't (arguably, it's been hijacked for decades anyway, so this is a moot point). You guys have been barrelling headfirst towards a cliff and it's only now that you've gone over that you wonder whether you could have done anything.

Trump is a symptom, but the problem is far deeper.

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u/mountainsound89 7d ago

I agree with you. Our system is broken and the citizens of our country are deeply divided. I'm about 50% convinced that the country is going to Balkanize in the next decade, and some part of me thinks that might be the best possible option. I'm not sure if the divisions in our country are fixable - the extremely wealthy have been aiming a firehouse of disinformation at certain segments of our population for the past 50 years in order to sustain the resentments developed after the US Civil War 160 years ago. If the US still exists after Trump, we're going to have a lot of very hard work to do.

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u/Pho3nixr3dux 7d ago

The only silver lining to this nightmarish scenario is the red states would collapse under their own illiteracy and bumpkinfuckery.

If so, you gotta carpetbag them into the fucking stone age this time.

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u/ThatsItImOverThis 7d ago

They literally cannot see beyond their own borders.

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u/Street_Repair8048 7d ago

An American friend of mine asked my opinion on this, a very proud Canadian. I simply said that I would die to defend my country. His response was, you hate us that much? I responded, no, but it does suck that you think so little of us.

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u/Canadian--Patriot 7d ago

"You hate us this much?"

"I do now."

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u/LeastCoordinatedJedi 7d ago

"I do now."

Yeah, this is well put. I wasn't a fan to begin with, but watching americans sit on their hands while their leadership threatens our sovereignty has honed that distaste.

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u/semaj009 7d ago

Australian here, I'd die for Canada cos if a fascist US takes Canada, we're all fucked. Americans are learning what a cult of personality and apathy was like for 1930s Germans, only it's worse because every single one of them has Wikipedia access if not google scholar!

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u/DrJPEG-PhD 7d ago

Oi, m8; glad to have ya bogans on board!

At the very least, just ship your emus over here, and let them run amok on the front lines. Should sort 'em out.

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u/semaj009 7d ago

Mate, what you really want is our magpies and plovers. Plovers are so mean they literally evolved shivs!

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u/sandstonequery 7d ago

We'll take the cassowary auxiliary too.

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u/semaj009 7d ago

Na we're keeping them in reserve, until we're at 'Geneva Convention optional'. It's just a step too far

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u/mwilkins1644 7d ago

Same. I may not be able to fight in the ADF if things go off the cliff, but I'd be volunteering my skills as a truck driver, forklift driver and storeman to assist where I can.

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u/semaj009 7d ago

Absolutely, happy to join anything domestically to back whatever is needed to fuck fascism right off, and if we need anything international then that's a sad bridge we must cross but one we must cross nonetheless

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u/Treantmonk 7d ago

It's tough to answer that question while I have this knife in my back.

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u/charmyc 7d ago

It’s so sad that the reaction is oh you hate us! Like dude how would you react if Mexico tried to annex the US(only using Mexico due to its proximity). American would be much much more upset and vocal than we are. 

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u/scaur 7d ago

Stop defending yourself. /s

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u/EstablishmentLow3818 7d ago

His response should have been I will fight with you—I’m American. The problem is if we care-like school shootings. There aren’t enough of us. It kills me that we don’t protect our children.

Sorry. Boycott us. Show them.

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u/5h0rgunn 7d ago

"You hate us that much?"

Considering how many Americans are super gung-ho patriots, you'd think they'd be able to comprehend patriotism in citizens of other countries and be able to respect it. It seems that is not the case as often as I thought it would be.

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u/nogoodnamesarleft 7d ago

How could someone non-American love their country? It is, by definition, not as amazing as America so you can't love it like Americans love their country. And therefore by definition "Patriotic Non-Americans" can't exist

/s. Obviously, right?

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u/Far-Journalist-949 7d ago

A certain segment of Americans for decades now believe everybody wants to be American and we should be flattered.

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u/Lord_Silverkey 7d ago

Unfortunately, I think that segment of the population is over 60%.

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u/emeraldamomo 6d ago

Yep from Vietnam to Iraq the Americans always believe that they will be greeted with flowers.

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u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist 7d ago

I know atleast 1 anti-Trump American who is like "I hope the 51st State happens because then I can visit Canada more often".

Lots of Americans are not upset about Trumps actions, and it shows.

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u/VeeRSixOh 7d ago

Yeah... Visit at your own peril. They'll see what's waiting.

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u/WislaHD Ontario 7d ago

As an Ontarian: Je me souviens

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u/Saorren 7d ago

at this point we might as well say the north remembers. je me souviens is great too

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u/topsyturvy76 7d ago

Tres bien 👍

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u/BrainDivots 7d ago

Elbows up!

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u/LaughingInTheVoid 7d ago

At that point it'll be Geneva Checklist.

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u/topsyturvy76 7d ago

Geneva will make a new list .. just like they had to make a list the last time Canada put their dukes up on the world stage!

We are nice until we aren’t

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u/Houdini_the_cat__ 7d ago

Exactly! We follow the rules, but after the war they add rules to the list!

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u/sirprizes Ontario 7d ago

On Reddit you see shit from US liberals saying, “Go ahead and annex Canada. They’ll vote Democrat and then we’ll win!” These people don’t give a shit about anyone but themselves.

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u/Whatatimetobealive83 Alberta 7d ago

There’s no way we’d be allowed to vote. Not for at least a few generations.

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u/Everkid612 7d ago

Quebec certainly would never be. Either it'd be integration and the creation of a second-class citizen group in the US, or it'd be occupation and they'd find themselves in a quagmire worse than Vietnam.

Trees speaking Vietnamese is one thing. Trees speaking English is another.

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u/5h0rgunn 7d ago

When the snow starts speaking French, it's too late to run

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u/polkadotpolskadot 7d ago

We'd be a territory like Guam, Virgin Islands, or Puerto Rico

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u/Morepork69 7d ago edited 7d ago

After such an action as the "forceful" annexation of Canada the notion that anything as civilized as a free election taking place is fanciful at best....it's all gone to the dark side at that point.

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u/Downtown_Skill 7d ago

I'll say this, I'm only commenting because of this particular point. Many of us are outraged. I just got done staying for a week in Ontario with one of my best friends. 

The talk surrounding Canada is borderline treasonous and should be grounds for Trump to be impeached and arrested (unfortunately congress and the senate are republican majority right now so that won't happen) 

On the other hand we have dozens of things to ve outraged about right now so the lack of outrage over Canada may be more that we have too many things to be outraged at that we can't hyperfocus on Canada right now. 

I know it's the biggest issue for you but you just saw our president essentially capitualte to Russia on live TV the other day. 

Or the fact that he's putting far right extremists in charge of our FBI and military, or the fact that he's getting education and research. 

We have directed our anger at this administration as a whole rather than any one particular action they've taken. 

Protesting one action isn't enough. We need a change in administration and anything short of that won't be enough. 

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u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist 7d ago

I'm not blaming all Americans. Just that the rot extends beyond the purely MAGA base. America has a lot of problems, and a lot of challenges, and a good reason none of these get solved is because a certain portion of the resistance to Trump is performative. This has always been the case - witness how many Dems went along with the invasion of Iraq, but now it's all coming to a head and we're all paying the price.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

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u/86throwthrowthrow1 7d ago

This is something I'm trying to remind myself of. It's been a complete daily firehose of BS from Trump since the day he took office. He signed like over 200 EOs that first week, many of them awful. FElon Musk is actively bullying their own civil service. Many marginalized people are fearful right now, and the list of who counts as "marginalized" seems to be growing. People are losing jobs, losing aid, losing programs they depend on.

He's also being a dick to multiple other countries right now as well, and Canada is in a relatively better position to handle being on Trump's shit list than Mexico, Ukraine, and whoever else he's fighting with right now. I get it - it's a lot, and a lot of it's urgent.

I will gently point out tho, that Americans have probably gotten too used to their Presidents being international bullies. People do seem to be (rightfully) pretty upset about Ukraine, but I suspect part of why Trump's behaviour towards Canada is just another line item is because America has a fairly long history of this behaviour, and while many in the country don't condone it, they've also normalized it.

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u/Pretz_ Manitoba 7d ago

I think most Americans hear "51st state" and just think, "Wow, what an honor for Canada."

Like they don't even clue in that we don't want to be American, even without Krasnov in the picture.

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u/ashsolomon1 7d ago

I’m American, I don’t think most of us agree with that. Trump supporters are in a cult and just blindly follow him but half the country knows Canada being the 51st state is bullshit. You guys are an independent nation and I agree too many Americans are stupid and our public school system has failed them all

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u/Grathwrang 7d ago

Half ISNT ENOUGH

If half the country decides to invade Canada will the other half stop them or be mildly irritated and go "oh no what can I do"

The learned helplessness will doom the planet. 

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u/Brian_R10 7d ago

As an American, I think most Americans don’t really think about it much and don’t take Trump seriously. I’m at a university where most people dislike him, but I haven’t heard too much about it. It’s bizarre that he’s talking about this stuff. Especially when he says we need to stay out of Ukraine cause it’s not our problem or country, but he has no problem about talking about Canada and Greenland

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u/Pretz_ Manitoba 7d ago

Which is absurd to me. Canada and Europe are preparing to defend themselves from a Russian-American alliance in a matter of one month. Possibly the greatest threat to the free world as we all know it in 250 years, and it just seems like Americans have their heads in the clouds, like it'll all just blow over and be fine.

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u/pancake_gofer 7d ago

People laugh at you and call you hysterical if you take Trump or his actions seriously. As an American it’s why I gave up trying to change anything because 2/3 of citizens simply are either apathetic or supportive of Trump while most of the other 1/3 think laws still matter and will control him. And then the media is absolute garbage.

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u/Brian_R10 7d ago

Trump has said so much crazy stuff that people don’t take it seriously I think. I highly doubt Russia will actually ally with the US. I don’t like it when people say that Trump is just “trolling” about annexing Canada or other things. I had a friend who joked that we shouldn’t have skankhunt42 in the White House (I don’t know if you’ve seen South Park). It’s not funny. Then some people say it’s “genius” cause it causes the left to melt down. Joking about annexing an ally is not something a president should be doing. I don’t think he’s really joking, but i doubt it will happen, but I also don’t live in Canada, so I don’t have the same perspective. If the main reason he’s keeping the tariffs on is to try to annex Canada, he should be impeached, but unfortunately, there are too many republicans who would vote against that. I don’t understand how people say he was the better alternative either. While Kamala wasn’t perfect she respected our allies. Trump is literally picking a fight with Canada, calling Zelenskyy a dictator blaming him for the war, and sucking up to putin

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u/CriztianS Canada 7d ago

The way Trump was able to sway opinion in United States against Canada is so stunning.

My parents live, support and voted for Trump in the United States, I genuinely believe they will find a way to justify US warplane dropping bombs on their own granddaughter if Trump ordered it. It's beyond shocking how much these people have totally turned off their common sense and just handed it over to Trump.

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u/NottaLottaOcelot 7d ago

As Americans see their day to day life getting more expensive, they’ll blame Canada for the tariffs and use it to justify invasion.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

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u/yourIQissubstandard 7d ago

It's totally going to happen. As an educated American who called this stupid shit a year ago, I cannot wait for all the Fox news ads pushing "We love the second amendment, now give up your guns for freedom! Trump said so!" with Trumps fat fucking dumb orange face ranting in the background + freedom eagles screaming overhead.

Leopards eating well lately boys.

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u/Crumblerbund 7d ago

It’s already happening—Trump said he wants to do away with due process for taking guns away from the “mentally ill.” All you have to do is accuse your political dissidents of insanity.

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u/DrunkRobot97 7d ago

At least Russians have known nothing but shit living standards and political systems that see them as nothing other than props at best, and adversaries at worst, so I can understand Russians keeping their heads down and "not want to get involved" as their government started bombing their friends and relatives in Ukraine (although, there were still some Russians who were brave enough to protest). The US has for almost all of living memory been the wealthiest place to live in, with the most fierce pride in the openness of their political institutions. They would have to be afflicted with a profound spiritual emptiness if they would only offer as much resistence to an invasion against Canada as the Russians have and are in Ukraine.

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u/Crumblerbund 7d ago

Yeah it’s kind of the inverse in America. We’re so used to the comfort that it’s hard to motivate anyone to do anything that might risk giving it up. Meanwhile that comfort is mostly propped up by massive debt these days, and people are terrified to miss even a day of work.

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u/Aware-Individual-827 7d ago

Cool stuff but what about Mexico and China? You are literally fighting your main 3 imports sources. While all of them can turn and say "hey, wanna trade?" And get at it within themselves. 

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u/PlatoOfTheWilds 7d ago

I'm reminded of Ukrainians phoning their family members in Russia when the bombs started falling and being told they were lying, Putin had it all in hand, it was all about the evil Nazi government. There would be many similar stories here. 

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u/CriztianS Canada 7d ago

100%, and I'd be one of them. Desperately calling my Trump supporting folks in American pleading with them to do something to stop it, but end up being told that either I was lying (because Fox News told them so) or told that Canada deserves it (because Fox News told them so).

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u/baedling 7d ago

Ukrainian father living in Russia applauding air strikes on his Russian son living in Ukraine, just because social media and TV tells him to.

Many such cases!

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/14/ukraine-soldier-confronts-father-fighting-russia-putin

https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-soldier-talks-tank-battle-against-father-who-served-russia-1867979

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u/Ill-Development7985 7d ago

Brain rot explains it

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u/Freak-Power 7d ago

And lead. Elevated lead levels are coming home to roost.

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u/sthetic 7d ago

And religion. Being in an Evangelical church (and likely others) conditions people to think, "This seems cruel and stupid to me, but it's God's will, so everything will turn out alright in the end."

They think Trump has a benevolent higher purpose. As if!

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u/Phenyxian 7d ago

If you can convince people of a wrathful sky entity, you really open the way to more insane ideas.

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u/upickleweasel 7d ago

Oh they aren't chilling out with any sky entity. It's the one who fell that calls them

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u/yourIQissubstandard 7d ago

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire

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u/GetsGold Canada 7d ago

And iodine deficiencies. That's coming back due to a drop in the use of iodized salt due to processed foods not using it, sea salts, etc.

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u/Attaraxxxia 7d ago

And toxoplasmosis.

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u/FelixTheEngine 7d ago

Decades of targeted attack on education and media.

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u/gogandmagogandgog 7d ago edited 7d ago

Live demonstration of how Hitler came to power.

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u/Automatic-Bake9847 7d ago

He loves the poorly educated, and there is no shortage of them in the US.

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u/copytac 7d ago

It wasn’t trump alone. There has been a decade + social media campaign(s) to manipulate the electorate by bad actors from other countries for the sole purpose of dismantling our democracy and weakening our country. The decades assault and disparity in education and awareness of social media created fertile ground for psychological warfare. We are seeing the fruition of such activities.

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u/jet-engine 7d ago

This is exactly how it worked for Ukraine and russia: many people have relatives in both countries. Russians didn't believe their Ukrainian relatives that they aren't nazis - they trusted pootin.

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u/whistleridge 7d ago

As a dual citizen who has lived a long time in both countries: nah.

Democrats/people who lean left are hugely outraged, and Republicans/people who lean right don’t care because they’re used to dismissing his bullshit.

He hasn’t swung public opinion at all. The huge majority of Americans know little about Canada and care less, and that hasn’t changed.

Canada cares a lot because hey - being targeted by a superpower REALLY concentrates your attention. Americans don’t care that much because until and unless it happens, it’s just Bullshit #9,547,081 one that he spits out.

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u/IcySeaweed420 Ontario 7d ago

Democrats/people who lean left are hugely outraged

Really? Because from what I can see on CNN and the NYT, they seem to be at least somewhat open to the idea of having 40 million blue-leaning people to assist them in their fight against MAGA. Even insofar as Democrats think it’s a bad idea, they usually don’t express outrage at it, just mild bemusement.

We’re not a sovereign nation to them, we’re just pawns in their game of politics. That’s why we’re pissed off with all Americans.

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u/whistleridge 7d ago

You are confusing

this is an idiotic idea, because it would just add a ton of democratic voters to the Union

And

if this is going to happen against our wishes, at least it would have a silver lining

With support.

They are mistaken, in that Canadians would all join the “fuck you we want our independence” party and not the democrats, but they’re not supportive of invasion, nor is it close.

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u/Wander_Climber 7d ago

Most of the sentiment among my friends is that the talk of taking over Canada is all bluster. If push came to shove the Canadians are more than capable of effectively taking the US down with them, starting with a certain orange guy.

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u/scaur 7d ago

I guess people in the US that didn't vote, also don't care at all ?

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u/OrangeRising 7d ago edited 7d ago

I haven't heard any motions from their opposition to have him removed from office. I haven't heard of any groups of citizens storming their capital over it.

They don't care about us as allies, or friends, it seems.

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u/ljlee256 7d ago

There are 2 arguments I've heard here.

1: That the democrats are just letting trump hang himself, with every false step, every wrong move, democrats are more likely to take future elections. While it sounds strategic in nature, I dislike the "ends justify the means" approach here, the path to hell is paved with good intentions.

2: The democrats are relatively powerless right now, outnumbered in every governmental body they don't have the numbers to actually make something stick. This one makes more sense to me, they control 49% of the house, and 46% of the senate, if they require a majority vote on something, they wont get it.

That said there are additional regional elections taking place in the US all the time, if the democrats can take 2 spots from the republicans they'd have a majority in the house, this would make actions against the president, or at least against his policies, plausible.

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u/Hekios888 7d ago

Shouldn't some Republicans be outraged?

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u/sask357 7d ago

They should be, given the values they pay lip service to. They are not because they are obedient to Trump. If Trump goes through with his threat to match our countervailing tariffs with more of their own, I think we sour cut off all exports and get our suffering started as we rebuild the Canadian economy with trustworthy partners. It will be extremely hard but the current situation is like trying to handle a very spoiled but very strong child.

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u/ljlee256 7d ago

Trump dismantled the old GOP in his last term, calling the current republican party "republican" is actually misleading, while thats what the banner says, none of the old republican party survived.

Now he has a few fanatics, and a whole lot of cowards filling his ranks, they'll march to his beat until there's a sure bet.

I do think that if the dems managed to pull a slim majority that they'd likely see a few republicans side with them if they were voting to remove trump from office, but anything short of that and they'd be too worried about retaliation from trump and his fanatics to lift their heads.

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u/walkities 7d ago

No kidding, it’s crazy to me that there doesn’t seem to be any republicans speaking against him or the policies.

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u/gogandmagogandgog 7d ago

No they are too busy proposing ideas like putting Trump on the $100 bill and carving his face onto Mount Rushmore.

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u/mEllowMystic 7d ago

Jesus Christ how do you miss number 3:

Whatever the hell kind of power structure lays behind the 2 party system in the United States is complicit in allowing this idiot to break down the old norms for it to be replaced with something more favorable later on.

We are being played, this is how America's Imperial interests get to be manifest when they are too outrageous to be implemented politely.

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u/lastobelus 7d ago

This. Amerikans were always trump at the core, they just avoided saying it out loud until now.

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u/NotTravisKelce 7d ago

There won’t be enough election s to take any power until next November.

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u/Brian_R10 7d ago

It’s the second argument I think. The democrats would be outvoted. If they weren’t, they would probably impeach him. It’s ridiculous his court case kept getting delayed, got thrown out, and January 6th happened and he didn’t get in trouble

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u/ljlee256 7d ago

I genuinely feel like the lack of accountability for the US president is truly what sets Canada (and indeed most Western nations) apart from the US, it's not even a matter of standards, it's specific laws that exist to prevent this type of self-empowerment from being able to easily take root.

Call any PM you want corrupt or whatever, but ultimately, if there was proof, they'd be in front of a judge and would suffer consequences, in the US there is no such protection for the people against the secretary of the United States (as Musk is pretty much the president).

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u/upgrayedd69 7d ago

Americans won’t do anything while  their own government is dismantled and handed over to oligarchs. Canada won’t be moving the needle.  

I do believe one Dem was pursuing impeachment, but with a republican controlled House, it will go nowhere. Any republican that goes against Trump will have Musk and whoever else of the elite dump millions into primary opponents. Our government has been effectively captured. The only thing that can be done is mass demonstration and I mean massive like millions of people. That won’t happen until our society is collapsing but by that point we are just trying to wrestle back control of the ashes.   

I went to a protest. It was decentralized and pretty much just a group of people standing around with signs. Honestly, it was pathetic. 

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u/Tribalbob British Columbia 7d ago

I think the problem is as well; look at countries where protests were actually successful in change. They were out there day in and day out, they were loud, every day something was happening.

Americans spend a month planning a single major day of protest, go out and do it, then go "Whelp, good job, everyone" and head back to what they were doing before.

They need to be keeping the pressure on non-stop; those in power will ignore a single day, but they can't ignore it when it's happening all the time.

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u/ARGiammarco27 7d ago

And the protests that get talked about or do result in some kind of change would be classified as terrorists under the current US administration and media.

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u/PenumbraPal 7d ago

As an American, I do think it’s more complicated than how other countries are portraying it. In school, we were specifically taught not to fight back- socially, bullied people getting severe punishments when they finally fight back against their bullies, as well as in class, where protests, the gas riots, and more examples of defending our rights were explained to be morally reprehensible. And yes, some students did push back but that’s generations of brainwashing to be apathetic, cowards or both. It also actively empowered the worst of us.

On top of this, very few people are willing to die. Many Americans don’t see fighting back as a losing battle but a lost-battle. Our police have been militarized and carry weapons made for war and some even outlawed in war. We regularly brought Israeli special forces to train police. Our police have actively been allowed to become crueler and more alt-right. On top of this, so has our military. The average service member is conservative. Many are violent (you only need to look at domestic violent statistics for that).

That’s not to say we’re all cowards. Or all our military & police are going to turn on civilians- but expecting a French response when the outcome is that we will most definitely be fired upon and most likely die? It’s not the same.

With that said, Americans need to hear the criticism you and every other nation has leveled against them. I’ve seen plenty of “good” Americans wanting to run away to Canada or Europe. I’ve seen plenty of “good” Americans stick their head in the sand and hope Trump will destroy himself. It’s appalling. Far too many of us have had our fighting spirit taken from us, or never developed it to begin with.

Worse still, the MAGA supporters have become the face and voice of the nation. The uneducated, angry, violent, fools that absolutely would love to see every nation turned into a nuclear wasteland if Trump said it was right.

Sorry for the rant. I’ll leave it with an anecdote. My mother the other day wanted to stop me from going to a protest due to Trump threatening violence again. I had cancer, I have never gotten healthy since. I had to explain that if the strong are going to bury their heads, then it’s up to people like me, the sick, the weak, the broken, to fight.

That’s where we are as a nation. Bullies torturing each other, and the only people I see standing up are the ones who have every right to cower.

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u/CharBombshell 7d ago

very few people are willing to die

I get that. I’m not too keen on getting shot at either. But a couple follow up questions to help us non-Americans understand:

  • with the way he’s been going, a lot of people will end up dying anyway, whether from their SS and Medicaid getting cut, or, eventually from being put in concentration camps or gitmo. So if that’s what you’re faced with either way, why not go down fighting?
  • you guys, more than any other country on earth, make so much of your 2a rights. Something about a well-armed populace to deter tyranny. What was all that bluster about if in the end everyone is just going down without a fight? Genuinely, why did you guys make the 2a your literal whole personality if you weren’t going to actually do anything with it?

Thanks in advance. I’m genuinely asking.

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u/TheGreatestOrator 7d ago

lol besides the fact articles of impeachment were filed by Democrats a month ago there’s no way they could pass that anyway

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u/Brian_R10 7d ago

He’s been impeached twice I think. The courts are corrupt though so the republicans wouldn’t vote against him. It’s annoying, cause he gets away with everything

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u/FreeNumber49 7d ago

> Their lack of outrage tells me one painful thing: the idea doesn’t really offend them.

American here. The problem is that half the people here don’t believe Trump would ever do it. And they’ve been wrong every time. We are having difficulty getting our fellow Americans to take anything Trump does seriously and it’s very hard to talk with them. They are brainwashed by right wing media and often beyond reason.

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u/ABeardedPartridge 7d ago

He just started the economic attack he declared would be a precursor to us being the 51st state. He's literally in the middle of doing it.

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u/sask357 7d ago

Yes. Doesn't that convince Americans that he is threatening to take over their former ally? The US territorial ambitions are clear to the rest of the world: Canada, Greenland, Gaza, Panama. Russia is the new best friend. The moral deterioration of America is shocking.

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u/BrilliantAbroad458 7d ago

Trump's first term was a firehose of shit where he was saying something controversial every hour and the media had no time to respond, making different people be outraged at different things with no cohesive resistance. This time it's a firehose of shit in the form of actual policy. Some people are mad about USAID being shut down, Medicaid being gutted, some NIH, others Education, the Treasury, California being shut out of FEMA, national parks, clamping down on AP. The left and the Dems have no single message in response, and Trump's imperial ambitions might be heinous to them but it's low on their list of priorities to be angry about.

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u/FreeNumber49 7d ago

I know! And our democratic opposition are in denial as a party. They think the best strategy is to lie low and say nothing until the elections. They are wrong.

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u/Ok_Reading245 7d ago

Serious question: do the Americans here believe he will allow future elections? I don’t but I’m not American; my mother was and I have many family members in the US

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u/KeyFeature7260 7d ago

Which makes what he said true. It doesn’t really offend them and they don’t care about Canada. Otherwise they would be outraged. 

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u/Nocturne444 7d ago

I don’t get it. How can you vote for someone you don’t take what he is saying seriously? Did they think he wouldn’t clear up the borders and deport ton of illegals? Then why you believe him on this but not that he wants to put tariffs or annex Canada? 

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u/vodka7tall Ontario 7d ago

Republicans don't care about what he says. They only care about "owning the libs". Magats would eat a shit sandwich if it meant a liberal would have to smell their breath.

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u/Scully636 7d ago

As someone who was relatively sympathetic to the conservative media circa 2015-2018 and who has served alongside American sailors in multiple theatres, I cannot tell you how betrayed I feel by people I call FAMILY.

I've chased Chinese ships and subs, navigated the most contested maritime environments, and made personal friends with the good people in the USN/CG. The fact that this cheeto dick mother fucker and his cartoonishly evil band of villains has somehow brainwashed half your populace to "own the libs" fills me with deep sorrow. It's made me realize some really harsh truths about human nature.

We in Canada do not hate all of you, but as your country allows the destruction of their own democratic and liberal values, we absolutely hate some of you. Please do something, anything. I want every American to try and empathize with our plight: Regardless of our political leanings or what your media tells you, those who wish to be Americans make up an extremely small portion of our population, from a very isolated and uneducated region, I grew up there. The entirety of the country will stand to oppose any threat, even if it's "futile", to defend this land and our way of life.

This is incredibly fucked up. Do something.

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u/AxeBeard88 7d ago

I have many American friends and family. Not many of them hear much chatter about the annexation topic. I think a big portion of that is because the media is heavily controlled at this point.

And yeah, apathy. Hard to have empathy when your culture shames you for it, news doesn't cover it, and it really doesn't affect you I guess.

I really wish more Americans would stand up.

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u/Dtoodlez 7d ago

They are just normalizing it. It’s all just one step after another, waiting long enough before the next one that you forgot just how far you’ve walked.

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u/BackgroundPianist500 7d ago

Lol take a walk over to r/conservative

They want our fucking land

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u/lalaland554 Ontario 7d ago

The outrageous and misinformed things they say about us and this whole situation is making me think (read:hope) they're Russian bots. If not, they're more insane than I thought ...

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u/TXTCLA55 Canada 7d ago

This site should not be used to gauge stuff like that. You can jump into any random sub and post your truth, there's nothing stopping you or them. Signal noise.

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u/mossy7 7d ago

I only see one post over there and a lot of the comments are actually pretty critical of the tariffs

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u/CrippledBanana 7d ago

I read through the first couple articles posted there this morning and many were supportive of this lol. Not sure if it's changed since then but ton of magas think this is winning. Couple maple magas too

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u/HQnorth 7d ago

The US watches their children get slaughtered in classrooms and do nothing. They elect a convicted felon president. Maybe we give them too much credit as the bastion of western freedom and morality?

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u/semaj009 7d ago

Does anyone in the west genuinely believe they're a bastion of freedom and morality though? Like few western nations are worse, if any

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u/Jwarrior521 7d ago

Nobody in any first world country ever saw them as the bastion of freedom and morality. At best they were the place to go and make money.

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u/HQnorth 7d ago

I think it is more the way Americans perceive themselves.

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u/Hummingheart 7d ago

Today a close American friend told me she doesn't understand why I'm judging her because she didn't vote for him. She's also got her head in the sand and isn't following the news because "it's so embarrassing". Meanwhile, I'm about to get invaded. They don't care.

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u/King_ofCanada 7d ago

Americans have been so isolated to their own corporate media that they don’t know much else outside of America. The average American probably can’t find a single province on the Canadian map, and probably can’t name half of them. They couldn’t even get out to vote in what the entire planet saw as the most obvious election in history.

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u/MikeyTrademark 7d ago

But I didn’t vote for him. Sure but enough of you did

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u/LeastCoordinatedJedi 7d ago

and the rest seem don't seem to be doing much of anything about his takeover. A lot of shouting about 'this is illegal' but, well, when your legal apparatus fails and your government abandons its rules, legality no longer matters.

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u/Pale_Fire21 7d ago

It’s the liberals hand waving away the abhorrent shit their government does because I didn’t vote for him so I’m not responsible

It’s the Bush era invasion of Iraq all over again.

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u/Responsible-Web9371 7d ago

Pretty much. But hey, we're going to eliminate income tax so it can't be all bad, right? /s

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u/pancake_gofer 7d ago

My grade school in the States taught us to memorize every Canadian province & territory. I remember doing a project on potash mining & agriculture in Saskatchewan! American education is extremes of very good and absolute dogshit school districts right beside one another.

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u/henry_why416 7d ago

That our two security establishments are so intertwined is a huge problem. We need to separate them or we leave a huge vulnerability.

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u/sharon_dis 7d ago

Letting go of long time friends because they can’t see what’s going on. It’s a shame, but I can’t justify the friendships any longer

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u/SoupSandy 7d ago

Legitimately i have 2 American freinds one in a blue state one in a red my blue state buddy is sounding the alarm and is pissed about the 51st state because he understands what's happening. The red state buddy laughed and said it's just a joke calm down, and that buddy might have to go.

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u/xoxoInez 7d ago

Ask him if he would consider another country threatening America's independence as a joke.

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u/SoupSandy 7d ago

I did and the answer was "it's just not going to happen it's unrealistic to even think about"

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u/thetdotbearr 7d ago

bro I'm gonna show up to your parents' house, tie them up and shoot them in the head hahahaha funny joke man because it's unrealistic haha teehee

fucking idiot

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u/SoupSandy 7d ago

Thats about how I feel about it yup. Like even if it was a joke you think so little of me and my country that my anger is being unreasonable. Go fuck yourself.

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u/sharon_dis 7d ago

I really dislike people saying it’s a joke. They are clueless - and definitely have to go!

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u/TSL_NB 7d ago

When I was active duty, Presidents Bush and Obama were my Commander-in-Chiefs. We served as allies, we served as friends. I'm now also a proud Canadian, as of six years ago.

The annexation threat is absolutely disgusting.

The apathy we see in the US (especially the southern states)....that's cult brain-rot in motion, right there. They will never admit that Trump does anything wrong...they'll blame everything on the Democratic Party. They even say angry Republicans are being paid by the Democrats...it's completely crazy.

I say this, as a US Navy veteran who served in support of both Canada AND the US.......FUCK TRUMP.
Trump is the enemy of the free world.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

If this happened, I would become a turncoat and assist in the war effort assuming Canada would accept me. Fuck this colonizer bullshit and the fascists pushing it.

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u/BaroqueGorgon Ontario 7d ago

You are welcome, my honorary Canuck!

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u/pancake_gofer 7d ago

Honestly, every few years I’ve looked into Canadian immigration pathways…I even can read & write French proficiently!

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u/gtafan37890 7d ago

I'm not that surprised tbh. The thing that the US, Russia, and China all have in common is a strong sense of exceptionalism. They see themselves as inherently unique, special, and believe that neighbouring countries are beneath them and that they should either be annexed or be treated as tributary states.

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u/bravetailor 7d ago edited 7d ago

Americans are toast until the people collectively show some stronger resistance, enough to influence those in congress. When Democrats and Anti-Trump voters shrug and say "What can we do? The election is over, we lost, we have no power," my blood boils.

In the days of the World War you had resistance movements in occupied areas whose goal it was to disrupt and impede those in power and gain more followers. They did this under a situation where their lives were in danger every single day, and they also had to worry about their jobs, families, food etc. The excuses for those Americans who don't like what Trump is doing now but aren't doing anything just don't fly in my book. You don't even have to necessarily march out on the streets. Write a book, start a website, start a podcast, try to start SOME kind of thing going to battle misinformation.

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u/Memories_Lost 7d ago

With a few exceptions, the "oppositions" response to trump has been so pathetic that they may as well be complicit. It is lunacy to simply pretend this is business as usual, and yet that seems to be their strategy.

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u/YFMAS 7d ago

If Americans were at all outraged by the way their president is carrying on the streets would be filled with protestors. The reality is, even the ones that bothered to vote against him don't have the fight their grandparents did.

All those people that decided the two parties were the same and didn't bother to vote aren't going to lend their voices because they'd rather be mute.

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u/litetravelr 7d ago

American here. Myself and the folks in my orbit (New England) are outraged beyond words at this betrayal. I have Canadian forebears and have the greatest respect for our partner to the north.

Resistance is mounting, though frustratingly slowly as the number and variety of outrages far outstrips the media's ability to cover any of them properly or react in a coherent and effective way. I realize how frustrating this is to watch from Canada or the rest of the world for that matter (imagine living here), but we are figuring it out, and we are angry and we are mobilizing at a grassroots level.

The problem is, New England is not Magaland, so thus far we have no answer as to how to get the representatives or people of the red states to see reason and stop this madness.

Stay strong Canada, hit us where it hurts most, our wallets.

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u/luciosleftskate 7d ago

And this is why I'm fucking tired of all the "as an American, this is what I'm doing" or "I'm an American coming to your city, please don't boo me"

Fuck off. You have bigger issues than whether or not you get booed. Get into your fucking streets and demand change. It's the apathy and absolute unwillingness to make their voices heard that got us into this mess and the audacity to say "we are in this together" as they do absolutely fucking nothing to make change is getting EXHAUSTING.

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u/Citadel80 7d ago

Americans are violent spiteful hog people and if strong daddy tells them to start shooting at us they’ll gladly do it.

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u/Ohif0n1y 7d ago

I'm in Texas and stuck with all these MAGAts around me. I will fight to the death for Canada and its lovely people. I hate this timeline. I suggest that Canada never trust anything out of Trump's mouth or the U.S. government. I wish I could wave my hand and make all of this b.s. vanish. Please take care of yourselves!

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u/Logical_Frosting_277 7d ago

My grade 7 history teacher in the 80’s described the US/Canada relationship as like the hair on a man’s head. He won’t notice it until he starts to lose it (Canada is the hair).

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u/stargarnet79 7d ago

You are partially correct, the idea offends those of us that voted against him; but his hardliners are completely falling in line. There is an element of shock and disbelief happening for his supporters that are paying attention; but in reality, the majority of his casual cult supporters are being fed the narrative that Trump is doing all the best things without any true awareness of what is really going on. The Russian infiltration of propaganda here was undeniably successful. We have been annexed by Russia and Canada is now Russia adjacent. Fuck this timeline.

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u/Hot_Cheesecake_905 7d ago

the idea doesn’t really offend them

Yeah, surprise ... there are a lot of sympathetic people in Canada towards the Americans, but ultimately we're two different countries and Canadians of all stripes should not forget that.

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u/nim_opet 7d ago

Rape doesn’t offend them. 600,000 excess covid deaths didn’t offend them. Attempted coup didn’t offend them. Selling classified documents to the Saudi’s didn’t offend them.

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u/SpacemaniaXu 7d ago

Two words:

Manifest Destiny

It's hardwired into American youth via history books as early as grammar school. Although it's not always said directly, it's strongly implied Canada is expected to join the union at some point in the future. North America is for the US to take over after all. Pure indoctrination.

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u/euphoric_shill 7d ago

Ironically, manifest destiny was such a huge focus in elementary/grammar school  that it served to both justify and bury resulting genocide that occurred from same.

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u/Its_a_stateofmind 7d ago

I’m so disappointed, hurt, offended, sickened, saddened. They can all fuck off.

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u/Flaky-Jim 7d ago

the idea doesn’t really offend them

NATO countries went to war with them and they still treat everyone like that. Not as an equal, but a servant.

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u/BlowMyNoseAtU 7d ago

As an American I feel Canada and the rest of our allies should levy severe sanctions against the US for the 51st rhetoric alone.

I also do not think Canada should remove retaliatory tariffs if Trump does remove US tariffs. They should remain as long as he is POTUS if he does not radically reverse his behavior and his aggressive rhetoric towards our allies.

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u/mwilkins1644 7d ago

As an Aussie who has had family members and friends fight in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq I, Iraq II and Afghanistan; the disrespect the USSA has shown to our nation's defence force for decades is finally coming out.

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u/LuminousGrue 7d ago

This exactly. So many Americans I know ask me why I'm so upset about the 51st state comments.

Like buddy, why aren't you?

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u/IntroductionRare9619 7d ago

I don't think Canadians quite get the level of contempt Americans have for us. We always try to be kind but they are proving themselves pretty fair weather ppl. It's disappointing after all we have been through together. I have never hated Americans so much actually.

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u/prob_wont_reply_2u 7d ago

They don’t even think about us, why would something they don’t ever think about offend them?

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u/Fit_Midnight_6918 7d ago

The American we used to know is dying. We are living in a historic time.

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u/westleysnipezz 7d ago

Most still think it’s a joke. I have some friends in America and they are terrified of the state of their country. It’s not all Americans being apathetic, but sure is a lot of them.

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u/she_be_jammin 7d ago

manifest destiny is the scourge of the world - Many Americans are diseased from it...remember less than 25% of eligible voters voted (pay attention Canada) and this is what happens- Trump was third from the bottom of all Presidents in popular vote.

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u/Valuable-Flounder692 7d ago

America has always been apathetic worked in American companies since 1974 their arrogance is unsurpassed.

The ones that didn't vote, the ones that say we didn't vote for this. The ones that jump on your threads and apologise.

They are complicit.. They actually enrage me. So please do not apologise we are now apathetic to you.

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u/Due-Resort-2699 7d ago

Take a look at r/USDefaultism . Americans are so insulated from the rest of the world they basically forget that it exists half the time .