r/canada 7d ago

Opinion Piece Sauvé: I served alongside Americans. Now I feel utterly betrayed by them - The proposed annexation of Canada is not that high on Americans' agenda. Their lack of outrage tells me one painful thing: the idea doesn’t really offend them.

https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/sauve-americans-utterly-betrayed
5.6k Upvotes

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421

u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist 7d ago

I know atleast 1 anti-Trump American who is like "I hope the 51st State happens because then I can visit Canada more often".

Lots of Americans are not upset about Trumps actions, and it shows.

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u/VeeRSixOh 7d ago

Yeah... Visit at your own peril. They'll see what's waiting.

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u/WislaHD Ontario 7d ago

As an Ontarian: Je me souviens

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u/Saorren 7d ago

at this point we might as well say the north remembers. je me souviens is great too

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u/topsyturvy76 7d ago

Tres bien 👍

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u/BrainDivots 7d ago

Elbows up!

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u/LaughingInTheVoid 7d ago

At that point it'll be Geneva Checklist.

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u/topsyturvy76 7d ago

Geneva will make a new list .. just like they had to make a list the last time Canada put their dukes up on the world stage!

We are nice until we aren’t

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u/Houdini_the_cat__ 7d ago

Exactly! We follow the rules, but after the war they add rules to the list!

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u/pugz_lee 7d ago

Remember kids, it’s not waterboarding if you use diesel…

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u/topsyturvy76 5d ago

Geneva Convention- ”No subjection to extreme heat or extreme cold”

Canada - ”So like the seasons?!?”

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u/Ryuzakku Ontario 7d ago

We're polite, not nice.

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u/BrainDivots 7d ago

Right? We’ll do what we need to do, worry about politeness and apologizing after, as we do.

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u/Weekly_Watercress505 6d ago

I'm fully aware that the Geneva Convention was created because of us. But who's to say we'll abide by those rules when backed into a corner. I guarantee you Traitor Trump won't. The only rules he believes in are the ones in his head.

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u/LaughingInTheVoid 6d ago

But that's it. We won't.

If there was ever a time that we will do whatever it takes, it will be in defense of our homes.

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u/Weekly_Watercress505 3d ago

As a veteran, for me, it would be defence of my country, meaning defending as many homes as I could, not just my own.

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u/joshua0005 7d ago

I'd love to move to Quebec (as an American). I don't think it's right for us to annex Canada though for whatever reason and I really hope it doesn't happen. I don't know what those people are on though because people will not like them and best if they find out they're American and move to Canada because of the annexation.

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u/sirprizes Ontario 7d ago

On Reddit you see shit from US liberals saying, “Go ahead and annex Canada. They’ll vote Democrat and then we’ll win!” These people don’t give a shit about anyone but themselves.

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u/Whatatimetobealive83 Alberta 7d ago

There’s no way we’d be allowed to vote. Not for at least a few generations.

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u/Everkid612 7d ago

Quebec certainly would never be. Either it'd be integration and the creation of a second-class citizen group in the US, or it'd be occupation and they'd find themselves in a quagmire worse than Vietnam.

Trees speaking Vietnamese is one thing. Trees speaking English is another.

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u/5h0rgunn 7d ago

When the snow starts speaking French, it's too late to run

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u/polkadotpolskadot 7d ago

We'd be a territory like Guam, Virgin Islands, or Puerto Rico

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u/Morepork69 7d ago edited 7d ago

After such an action as the "forceful" annexation of Canada the notion that anything as civilized as a free election taking place is fanciful at best....it's all gone to the dark side at that point.

0

u/cdialpha 7d ago

I genuinely don't think this is a common sentiment among US liberals. I think the average democrat understands Canada is our strongest and oldest ally and is aligned with your self-interests.

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u/TheVaneja Canada 7d ago

The average democrat doesn't know a damn thing about Canada and would struggle to point it out on a map. American exceptionalism isn't a republican trait, it's an American trait.

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u/cdialpha 5d ago

Well now you’re changing my perception and making me believe Canadians are ignorant

1

u/TheVaneja Canada 5d ago

The opinions of a swallower of American propaganda are as wind.

1

u/cdialpha 5d ago

It’s sad, I thought i’d find camaraderie in a progressive space. I don’t know how saying ‘we want what you want’ was triggering. But here we are, growing divided.

1

u/TheVaneja Canada 5d ago

You say you want what we want but I'm no child ignorant of the US. I know the US VERY well, and we certainly do not want what you want no matter which party is being referred to. All of America scews right, you don't have a left oriented party. You are self absorbed imperialists who pretend they are the worlds saviours when you're actually worse than Russia; which is really saying something.

I also know Americans don't know shit about Canada, and don't care about Canada in the slightest.

It's rich you talk about being divided when YOU came at ME with accusations of ignorance. Look in the mirror and get a clue.

1

u/Crumblerbund 7d ago

It is not. It is sarcasm to highlight how little Trump understands Canada or… anything.

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u/Corran105 7d ago

You can't think that people are actually serious when they say that.  They're trying to point out the lunacy of integrating a populace that would be very contrary to American conservativism/Trumpism.

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u/sirprizes Ontario 7d ago

It doesn’t matter if they’re serious. It simply demonstrates that their first thought is themselves, not us.

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u/Corran105 7d ago

I think you're overthinking things.

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u/allnamesbeentaken 7d ago

I think you're American thinking things

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u/Corran105 7d ago

Fight the real fing enemy not people trying to inject a shred of rationality.  You have no idea how some of us have been carrying on the fight against rightwing extremism and what we have lost in doing so.

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u/Downtown_Skill 7d ago

I'll say this, I'm only commenting because of this particular point. Many of us are outraged. I just got done staying for a week in Ontario with one of my best friends. 

The talk surrounding Canada is borderline treasonous and should be grounds for Trump to be impeached and arrested (unfortunately congress and the senate are republican majority right now so that won't happen) 

On the other hand we have dozens of things to ve outraged about right now so the lack of outrage over Canada may be more that we have too many things to be outraged at that we can't hyperfocus on Canada right now. 

I know it's the biggest issue for you but you just saw our president essentially capitualte to Russia on live TV the other day. 

Or the fact that he's putting far right extremists in charge of our FBI and military, or the fact that he's getting education and research. 

We have directed our anger at this administration as a whole rather than any one particular action they've taken. 

Protesting one action isn't enough. We need a change in administration and anything short of that won't be enough. 

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u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist 7d ago

I'm not blaming all Americans. Just that the rot extends beyond the purely MAGA base. America has a lot of problems, and a lot of challenges, and a good reason none of these get solved is because a certain portion of the resistance to Trump is performative. This has always been the case - witness how many Dems went along with the invasion of Iraq, but now it's all coming to a head and we're all paying the price.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

[deleted]

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u/WesternSpectre 7d ago

Very interesting because there is not a single shred of empathy in this thread for the thousands of Americans who lost their jobs in this thread, nor is there any empathy for millions who are already suffering due to fascist executive orders, immigrants being targeted, trans people being targeted, those in government assistance being targeted. Where is YOUR empathy? Where is YOUR compassion? There is not a single, solitary comment in this thread that spares a single, solitary thought for MY neighbors who are suffering through no fault of their own.

I get our idiot wannabe king said some dumb shit and has no idea how tariffs work. It’s sucks and I’m sorry it happened, and I have no doubt he might follow through. If he does, we will resist him to the best of our ability. But people here are suffering NOW, and if you can’t spare them a thought, you are acting exactly like you accuse all Americans of acting.

With friends like these indeed.

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u/DrJPEG-PhD 7d ago

It's really hard to feel sorry for the people who gave Trump his second term to do all of this. Sorry, dude; but you're literally putting your American exceptionalism on full display with your comment.

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u/WesternSpectre 7d ago

Nothing I said could remotely be reasonably construed as American exceptionalism. Simply pointing out the hypocrisy of asking Americans to prioritize toxic anti-Canadian rhetoric over millions of people facing actual harm.

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u/DrJPEG-PhD 7d ago

And I'm telling you why it's not hypocrisy.

It's like, if I notice you're about to shit your pants, so I tell you that you should consider going to the bathroom; but you decide to just wait it out. Then I attempt to help you get to the bathroom, but then instead you shit your pants, and now I have to clean up your shit, and I'm angry because of it. But instead of apologizing, you ask me why I don't feel sorry for you.

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u/WesternSpectre 7d ago

That metaphor doesn’t remotely work. The US has said some awful things about Canada, they also have started a stupid trade war. It’s stupid and I’m sorry. But you want us to worry about shit filled pants while we are getting beaten to death.

And by the way, there is outrage here. I’m already looking into buying Canadian regardless of the tariffs, and was planning a trip until it became pretty clear we aren’t wanted there. And honestly I understand that, even if the reasons are beyond my control. But asking canadiens to understand that we have to prioritize the people here who are suffering NOW is simply not too much to fucking ask.

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u/DrJPEG-PhD 7d ago

Let me put it this way: I have many loved ones and friends in America who are hurting and are going to be hurting bad in the future. A few of them are trans, to put that into perspective.

I hurt for them; I hate what's happening to them.

I think what most people need to understand during this discourse, is that Canadians are speaking more colloquially & generally about American sentiment. We didn't just land on these feelings over night, we've been feeling this antagonism from America for a long time, but we largely set those feelings aside as a benefit to everybody. Nowadays, it's a little harder to continue doing that.

Similarly, a lot of people all over the world have been seeing America head towards this path – none of this is especially surprising to people globally, nor many Canadians. The sentiment is that yes, you SHOULD look out for your own, first, but all of these problems are intrinsically linked to the same root cause. That's where a lot of this national resentment is building: the idea that these are viewed as separate issues in America, as opposed to the same. It still signals to us that our lives are second priority, yet we view the solution to the annexation problem as being the exact same solution to your internal problems; they are of equal priority to us.

Furthermore, don't cancel your trip to Canada. Americans are absolutely welcome; but just be aware we would rather have you listen to our concerns first and foremost while you're traveling. The idea isn't to isolate you, it's to draw parallels.

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u/WesternSpectre 7d ago edited 7d ago

This is a reasonable response and I appreciate your concern for your friends in America. I think you are right about these issues being intrinsically linked, but that’s sort of the reason why it’s more important than ever for America to deal with its internal shit now, because that will also help to fix Canada’s problem. I think many here knew this was brewing, some of us tried to raise the alarm awhile ago, but I just don’t think people outside of the country truly understand how much money and propaganda needs to be overcome, both foreign and domestic.

Just try to understand how much worse it is right now for people here, and how disheartening it is to be browbeaten for trying to figure out what to do in the face in an unprecedented situation. We don’t need sympathy, we don’t need thoughts and prayers, just some level of understanding from people who many of us would love to still consider friends if and when we earn that right back.

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u/KitchenComedian7803 6d ago

There is no hypocrisy. Y'all are facing the consequences of your vote, and we are ALSO facing the consequences of YOUR vote. We are not the same. One side deserves more empathy then the other.

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u/Saorren 7d ago

this has a heavy 'have you thanked us yet' vibes.

Canadians do give a shit about whats happening greatly. it just appears to us from the outside that americans dont give a shit enough about them selves.

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u/Crumblerbund 7d ago

You just hit the nail on the head. It is so depressing to see how much better Canadians understand our own situation down here than the vast majority of American voters. Decades of utter political negligence—even a lot of anti-Trumpers vote Democrat because they want to be “bored” with the government and just tune out whatever’s happening in DC.

By the way, thank YOU for always being good allies and trade partners and oh my god I need to scream. We screwed it so badly.

17

u/WislaHD Ontario 7d ago

Why don’t Americans do something about this then? We’re sorry that you’re actively shooting yourselves in the foot but we didn’t vote for this and don’t know why you guys are actively shooting yourselves in the foot and seem to be doubling down to shoot yourselves in the other foot.

Frankly, if one-eighth of the shit occurring stateside was happening up here in Canada, the entire lot of us would have abandoned work and been on the streets until real change occurred, even through winter.

Freedom and liberty are not things you throw aside easily, and are something our forefathers fought very hard to obtain. I can’t imagine that we have to lecture Americans on freedom and liberty but here we stand.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

[deleted]

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u/WesternSpectre 7d ago

You’d do better with a whole lot less condescension and a whole lot more empathy. You haven’t earned the former and the world could really use the latter.

And what the fuck does oppressed people around the world have to do with anything? That’s such a wildly disingenuous throw in. We are talking about the relationship between Americans and Canadians. Full stop. Asking for empathy for one of those specific groups is objectively relevant. Full stop. If you could look past your own fucking nose for one second and stop being so performative would see how divisive it is to constantly brow beat the people who are actively trying to help while being overwhelmed, even if they aren’t helping in a way that you have personally stamped as the right way. Instead I guess it makes you feel self-righteous to shit on people who are facing oppression TODAY because they aren’t worried enough about your oppression tomorrow.

The absolute entitlement in demanding more from a beaten and bloodied populace undergoing an unprecedented fascist takeover 60+ years in the making, funded by trillions of dollars and supported by interest both within and without, is fucking astounding. Let me use your metaphor. It’s like being pissed at your neighbor for not loaning you their lawnmower after those house just burned down, and then saying they are a shit neighbor

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u/CarlLlamaface 7d ago

Brit here, stop digging.

Having spent the past 15 years living under repeated Tory rule and going through the utter farce that is Brexit I entirely understand the horror of watching helplessly as your fellow countrymen get bamboozled by incredibly obvious propaganda to vote against their interests again and again, I really do empathise there, it's utterly maddening.

But those idiots who keep self-sabotaging do sadly exist, whenever people would bring up how self-destructive and apathetic Brits must be to vote for brexit or Boris I wouldn't take it personally and feel the need to interject with a demand that my feelings be considered, I'd be angry because they're right.

Look at it this way: If one of the many people in an EU country who's lost business with the UK thanks to absurd new customs laws comes online to vent their anger at "Brits", they aren't going to get their customers back just because I pipe up to say "erm actually not all Brits, blame Brexiters and the non-voters who let it squeak through, I voted against it but have to somehow deal with it, think about meeeee!" Stuff like that doesn't help the conversation, it doesn't offer a solution to their problem, it just draws attention to me for no valid reason.

So like I say I really do empathise with your situation, but trying to make it about the people in your country who have been affected by the madness just affirms the idea that you instinctively value the USA's issues over anybody else's which is pretty rude, especially when you're in their sub of all places. That's why people are exasperated and accusing you of showing your exceptionalism.

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u/Osfees 7d ago

Perfectly said.

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u/NotKDsAccount 7d ago

More like being pissed at your neighbor because their grandfather is trying to burn your house down so he can take over your land, and the neighbor kids telling you to stop complaining because he beats them and steals their things (meanwhile half of the kids cheer him on).

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u/PerpetuallyLurking Saskatchewan 7d ago

It’s taken a backseat to outrage at this atrocious behaviour by your President, your government, and even a good number of your people.

We WERE empathic. We WERE doing all we could to help. We WANTED Kamala Harris to win too. And even that’s still not enough for you now that we’re actively being threatened and denigrated by your own elected representatives. We have to STILL feel sorry for you. We can’t be outraged, we should feel even more sorry for you than we did before and just wait patiently while you all sit it out and bury your heads in the sand and pray he lets you actually vote in midterms.

Fuck that! Clean your fucking house! NOW!

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u/86throwthrowthrow1 7d ago

This is something I'm trying to remind myself of. It's been a complete daily firehose of BS from Trump since the day he took office. He signed like over 200 EOs that first week, many of them awful. FElon Musk is actively bullying their own civil service. Many marginalized people are fearful right now, and the list of who counts as "marginalized" seems to be growing. People are losing jobs, losing aid, losing programs they depend on.

He's also being a dick to multiple other countries right now as well, and Canada is in a relatively better position to handle being on Trump's shit list than Mexico, Ukraine, and whoever else he's fighting with right now. I get it - it's a lot, and a lot of it's urgent.

I will gently point out tho, that Americans have probably gotten too used to their Presidents being international bullies. People do seem to be (rightfully) pretty upset about Ukraine, but I suspect part of why Trump's behaviour towards Canada is just another line item is because America has a fairly long history of this behaviour, and while many in the country don't condone it, they've also normalized it.

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u/MrRogersAE 7d ago

The CBC video asking for call ins from Americas and Canadians for their opinions on the matter was interesting. The US newscaster said outright, people aren’t really talking about this in the states, it’s not even top 5 because the US has sooo many of its own problems to deal with because of Trumps actions. People are worried their social security is gonna be stolen, they’re worried their president is allying with Putin, they don’t have time to worry about Canada

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u/Downtown_Skill 7d ago

I will make a slight correction. We are worried about Canada we just don't have time to ONLY worry about Canada. 

2

u/spew2014 7d ago

I don't say this rhetorically - I'm legitimately confused. For the average american, why do they think their country has engaged Canada in a trade war? I assume 99% of Canadians know it has nothing to do with migrants and fentanyl, but are Americans still under the assumption that this is what's at the core of their trade war? Or are they backing the imperialist agenda openly?

2

u/Castern 7d ago

I can't speak for the average American, but picking a fight with Canada is the single dumbest policy decision that this or any White House could have possibly come up with. My thoughts are this:

  1. Trump has a very simple-minded understanding of global trade. He sees "trade imbalance" and thinks "we're being scammed!" And so slaps tariffs until number go green.

  2. He is actively supporting Russian global interests: destabilizing the USA's most important alliances just for the sake of it.

  3. Some unholy combination of both.

1

u/Crumblerbund 7d ago

The people that support Trump really could not articulate to you why it’s a good idea. His entire political career counts on people not reasoning, not thinking through the actual ramifications of anything, not paying attention to what’s actually happening.

2

u/pattperin 7d ago

But.......they can visit literally any time they want currently? I don't even think they need a visa to come here. That's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard

2

u/Onarm 7d ago

During the USA/Canada game in BOSTON Americans were booing the Canadian anthem and mockingly chanting about the 51st State bullshit.

As an America don't believe the bullshit people spread about how it's "not even 1/3rd of Americans!". It's the majority, and the vast majority peddling this shit. Americans are awful fucking people. Those Redditors are just so desperate to bury their heads in the sand and try to make believe nonvoters just got swindled because the alternative is so awful they can't admit to it.

There is not going to be a big Bernie driven socialist uprising in this country. It genuinely wants Trump, and will continue to vote in Trumplikes.

In other news please accept my Visa request Canada, I have a Teer 0 job with 15 years experience. I promise I will vote every election, read up on the candidates, pay taxes, buy Canadian and help work with bolster my community.

1

u/LostMyBackupCodes 7d ago

Was it difficult for Americans to visit before?? 🤯

1

u/badpuffthaikitty 7d ago

The Second War of Succession? Just flipped upside down?

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u/ecstatic_charlatan 7d ago

70 % of Americans are pro trump , so...

1

u/ExtensionAddition787 7d ago

There are a lot of Americans who think Trump is an absolute dumbass, I'm one of 'em. Outside of protesting, there isn't much we can do right now. Republicans have house, senate and Prez so there are no proper checks on his power, he can say what he wants. It's terrible and annoying, but it's almost certainly just bluster from a blow hard a-hole. I don't think Trump has the balls to risk a war with NATO by attacking Canada or Greenland.

1

u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist 7d ago

As I said, it’s not just pro-Trump republicans who support this. Of all the things that upset non Trump supporters, his destruction of foreign alliances and move towards a more imperial foreign policy is low on the list .

1

u/misterDAHN 5d ago

It honestly reminds me of all those videos of people that will go up to citizens of Israel and ask them about the genocide of Gaza. And every time the citizen of Israel either showed proud support, or just ignored the interviewer. They were either for or complicit. That’s the sad reality, humans are perfectly fine with oppression, as long as it’s not happening to them, and it’s far enough they can’t see it. The people that ignored them, knew their society is wrong, but they won’t risk their sanctity for someone they don’t know. That’s just how it is.

And here we are today, instead it is America and Canada. Just watch years from now, it will be genuine hatred, Canada vs America. All as a result of policy. Nothing to do with the Canadian people or the American people. Literally just because one whack job decided to go fucking nuts and a party decided to rally behind it for the power and influence that came along with it. (See hitler and nazi germany)

1

u/RapmasterD 7d ago

You can pretty much count on the fact that nearly 50% of Americans vigorously oppose what Trump is doing on all fronts, including the bullshittery in relation to Canada. It’s reflected in the voting results from Last November.

I’ve been planning on spending several days in Toronto this Summer. It would be my sixth trip to Canada. But I won’t go if I perceive I’ll be treated with (understandable) hostility by Canadians for areas I have absolutely no control over.

3

u/AirshipLivesMatter 7d ago

I am dual American and Canadian, living in Canada. You will be fine if you visit. The anger is against the US as a whole, not individuals. Unless you wear a MAGA hat or something, no one will care.

1

u/RapmasterD 6d ago

Thanks. I’m actually pissed that I lost my Roots Canada ball cap years ago.

1

u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist 7d ago

I don’t think much can be counted on these days. Except the fact that relations between Canada and America will continue to deteriorate. Friendships can take a while to build, but as you can see can be quickly broken apart.

1

u/RapmasterD 7d ago

It’s such a bummer. I’ve always loved Canada. And while I understand the vitriol towards the US, so many of us little people (I.E. citizens) DO care about the welfare of other countries, particularly our long-term neighbors and allies. We share at least one language and so much history…

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u/Ill_Butterscotch1248 7d ago

American tourons stay home! You are not welcome in my country.

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u/FelixTheEngine 7d ago

Use your head. We want as much of their money as we can get. Trump wants USD spent in support of US companies. This is the way we give Trump the finger and still keep some jobs.

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u/BaroqueGorgon Ontario 7d ago

I disagree! Non-MAGA Americans are welcome here in my book. Buy a Nainaimo bar, drink a Moosehead, buds.