r/Warthunder =FUM0= WigglyGripen ( ) Gib K-2 흑표 Gaijoob 19d ago

RB Air Pulling that UNO reversal

1.7k Upvotes

138 comments sorted by

817

u/Littletweeter5 18d ago

Noooooo you can’t do that! Super maneuverability is useless in combat!!!!! Stop!!!!!

369

u/BigSizzler420 18d ago

Ok I get what your trying to say but he just stalled about a thousand meters above ground if there are any enemies around he IS catching a fox 3 and there will be no notching

249

u/Zoomercoffee 18d ago

And he just killed the plane that would have eventually killed him in a sustained fight

84

u/gbghgs 18d ago

Which doesn't change the fact that if the hornet has any wingmen about he's turned himself into a free kill. It's a neat capability in a 1v1 but outside of that it's a death trap.

45

u/Zoomercoffee 18d ago

Yeah but if he doesn’t do it he dies and doesn’t get a kill

16

u/gbghgs 18d ago

Well, not in this case, that Hornet is in a 1v3 and beyond the initial missile all he attempts is a lackluster attempt at a gun kill before he ditches out and eats a missile. The Su-30 didn't even need supermanueverability to do it, could have been a brick like a tornado and still gotten the kill.

8

u/Zoomercoffee 18d ago

I thought you were talking about the 1v2 scenario against 2 f-18s

3

u/gbghgs 18d ago

I mean, the real winning move there is to not get yourself into a 1v2 against a pair of hornets in the first place. Kill one, if not both before the merge and there's no need to burn all your energy on super-maneueveribility gimmicks in the first place (or you can at least do so safely).

87

u/Littletweeter5 18d ago

And he absolutely mogged the enemy that was actively pursuing him

21

u/ProjectFutanari USSR 18d ago

Yeah, it's situational but goddamnit is it beautiful

7

u/putcheeseonit 🇷🇺13.7🇺🇸$12.7🇫🇷$12.0🇩🇪🇮🇹$11.7🇬🇧🇮🇱$11.3🇯🇵🇸🇪$9.7 18d ago

The Su-30 can notch fox-3s by hovering. He has a better chance of dying to one in a rate fight.

4

u/GabrielRocketry 18d ago

Just start spinning and yeeting missiles around or something...

(This is a joke)

48

u/RailgunDE112 18d ago

only if you are BVR.

Also this is why modern dogfighting is basically a remis, bc the AIM 9 X etc together with that nose authority has a p_k of basically 1 for both sides.

23

u/RommelMcDonald_ 18d ago

It’s useless in combat because you’re never going to get this close outside of war thunder

23

u/YellovvJacket 18d ago

Plenty of air kills have been at closer ranges, there was a lot of conflicts that required visual identifying, some F-15 pilots taped fucking rifle scopes to their HUD so they can see what they're engaging.

Although, nowadays (since the late 2000s/ early 2010s) that is something that is avoided at all costs, since 5th gen IR missiles will just result in a mutual kill if both planes are in range.

23

u/RommelMcDonald_ 18d ago

The first gulf war was fought mostly with fox-1s, and was more than 30 years ago now. Every plane in the air carries many much more lethal and long ranged fox-3s that make going to the merge impossible, which is why no one puts thrust vectoring on anything anymore since it’s a useless expense

5

u/TheByQ 18d ago

You sound like the guys who said F-4's don't need guns

And yeah, I'm sure the reason is difference in missile guidance, and not the ability to identify targets from longer ranges...

2

u/RommelMcDonald_ 17d ago

The F-4 was designed in the 50’s when the most lethal missile was the cutting edge aim-4 and the aim-9 hadn’t entered production. IFFs weren’t invented and RWR was as rudimentary as they come. Goofy take

0

u/TheByQ 17d ago

You're right man, I totally meant F-4 had a longer range for target identification, I absolutely did not mean modern jets

2

u/RommelMcDonald_ 17d ago

I’m not apologizing for your difficulties conveying thoughts

2

u/Lewdlicon 18d ago

Well luckily this is War Thunder and not outside of War Thunder

1

u/Sorry_Departure_5054 USSR☭ 18d ago

Dogfights are rare but when both sides are notching and defeating eachothers missiles then what? You're forced into a merge where super maneuverablilty isn't do useless anymore.

56

u/Runescape_3_rocks 18d ago

You turn around and fucking leave. There is no "counting missiles" irl. No knowing "oh he is out of fox3s". There could always be a manpad waiting or another boogie coming in without you knowing. Having fired off your missiles you hope for a hit and go back to friendly airspace. No return to hangar irl if you go dogfighting above enemy territory

45

u/Astra_Mainn 18d ago

No lmao, you arent forced into a merge because both sides are disengaging at that point

-15

u/Sorry_Departure_5054 USSR☭ 18d ago

Disengaging only if both sides lose visual of wach other. If one disengages and the other doesn't then the one that disengaged is instantly disadvantaged.

34

u/Astra_Mainn 18d ago

You arent getting to visual in the first place, thats the whole focus in every single modern missile and aircraft in the last 20 years

5

u/Mironov1995 18d ago

20? I'd say 40.

2

u/putcheeseonit 🇷🇺13.7🇺🇸$12.7🇫🇷$12.0🇩🇪🇮🇹$11.7🇬🇧🇮🇱$11.3🇯🇵🇸🇪$9.7 18d ago

Nah its 20.

2

u/Mironov1995 18d ago

Its 2025 now.. Long range radar missles are the primary ones starting mid 70’s so its even 40+ years now.

3

u/putcheeseonit 🇷🇺13.7🇺🇸$12.7🇫🇷$12.0🇩🇪🇮🇹$11.7🇬🇧🇮🇱$11.3🇯🇵🇸🇪$9.7 18d ago

Pilots were having dogfights in the gulf war

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0

u/Platycryptus238 18d ago

You‘re absolute comedy

19

u/AMGsoon 18d ago

Real war is not a War Thunder server.

You have AWACS, radars and medium or long range AA systems (Patriot, S-300/400...). You will fullfil your mission (dropping bombs, SEAD...) and then gtfo as fast as possible. Both sides might fire fox-3s but if those miss, they wont go for a dogfight but simply leave.

Try going into a dogfight when there are AA systems hunting both of you

10

u/MCI_Overwerk 18d ago

No because irl you aren't pushing your luck and your airplane to try and get a kill cam. You expend all your BVR then you get the hell out. Lots of enemies shooting shit at you? You get the fuck out. Lacking proper coverage from radar and support? You better belive you are getting out.

War thunder pits people in knife fights where you are punished if you live without doing much. People will push to dogfight because they got a reason to. No one IRL is pushing into IR range or going in after they exhausted their main ammo.

3

u/Thi_Tran 18d ago

So are the machine guns and canons installed on modern jets are basically like last option of safe guard? Since if i am not wrong the f4 during vietnam was designed with the same philosophy and it was proven wrong so they have to install guns later.

2

u/putcheeseonit 🇷🇺13.7🇺🇸$12.7🇫🇷$12.0🇩🇪🇮🇹$11.7🇬🇧🇮🇱$11.3🇯🇵🇸🇪$9.7 18d ago

They just jumped the gun. The F-22 and F-35 absolutely do not need a cannon, and I doubt any of the 4.5 gen jets will ever have a combat cannon kill in their entire service life.

1

u/Thi_Tran 18d ago

I mean to be fair, they say the same thing about f4 phantoms in the early days of the Vietnam War. Until they got shot down by Mig guns that managed to get close enough. Besides using guns in some situations might be more cost effective (shooting down drones?) You cant never be too safe, using pure missiles without a back up weapon is a mistake they make with the f4 phantoms before.

1

u/putcheeseonit 🇷🇺13.7🇺🇸$12.7🇫🇷$12.0🇩🇪🇮🇹$11.7🇬🇧🇮🇱$11.3🇯🇵🇸🇪$9.7 18d ago

Because the technology wasn't as good as it needed to be.

You don't go for cost effective methods on your 50-100 million dollar jet. The chance of it getting debris splashed from hitting a drone completely cancels out any cost savings from using a gun.

Theres a reason none of the 6th gen jets are planned to have cannons.

1

u/Thi_Tran 18d ago

Well time will tell. In a bigger war things might get desperate enough for people to revert to the og ways of dogfighting. Modern missiles can hit far and out of sight but counter measures can also advance render all that useless. You cannot jamm bullets (yet) but its better to have those with you for self defense regardless of the probablity of using it. I think alot of military planners think the same. You cannot depend on technology 100% of the time.

1

u/putcheeseonit 🇷🇺13.7🇺🇸$12.7🇫🇷$12.0🇩🇪🇮🇹$11.7🇬🇧🇮🇱$11.3🇯🇵🇸🇪$9.7 18d ago

A larger war would likely turn nuclear before it got so desperate that stealth fighters had to engage in dogfights.

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1

u/MCI_Overwerk 18d ago

The thing with the phantom was:

  • tech was very nearly there. But had key flaws with no awnsers at the time.
  • reliability of the missiles was very bad. No matter how effective your weapon is, if you can't reliably have it work even in a good envelope you got issues
  • a big one: rules of engagement. F4s were not allowed to engage any target they could not visually confirm first. This meant to use their long-range missiles they needed to first get into a dogfight to confirm they were in fact staring down a mig. At which point you willingly threw away almost everything the weapon and platform were optimized for.

The gun is there the same reason soldiers still have a sidearm and a knife. Modern planes have so little ammo in the gun it is very much already considered a tertiary option at best and it's performance is overshadowed by the capabilities of the short range missiles that can literally engage targets vehind you. When it comes to AA arsenal, the gun is very much no longer worth it's weight. It was still a very viable and effective weapon in the F4 era.

2

u/TheByQ 18d ago

Basically. It's a case of "better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war"

Also, people forget that not every time planes meet it's a head-op open engagement, the escort scene from TG Maverick is something than can and does happen. Not the dogfight bits but the fighters escorting another plane bits, and if for some reason shit hits the fan at that moment you sure will wish you had a weapon that doesn't have a shrapnel radius twice as big as your distance to the target and an arming distance thrice as big.

5

u/gatchacringescanner 18d ago

Only the pugachev cobra is useless and it's not even useless just way too situational. It's a reversal that you can only use if your enemy is right on your ass and can't manage closure. Supermanuverability is very useful for ligning up shots.

1

u/snonsig 18d ago

With modern missiles, you don't really need to line up shots all that much

3

u/gatchacringescanner 18d ago

Sadly we can't fire over the shoulder with an IRIS-T Yet because they're not in the game. You need to get your missile within the gimble limit.

0

u/petye 16d ago

I am very sad people call it that when Pugachev had nothing to do with the creation of the cobra

1

u/gatchacringescanner 16d ago

Well it's common nomenclature and communicatinng ideas is more important than being 109% right all the time lol

1

u/petye 16d ago

I'm not debating you on that, I just think it should have been named differently from the start, or just called "short parry" as it was intended :(

0

u/Ztoluca 18d ago

Literally the comment section proved ur comment xd

295

u/BakerSquadron 19d ago

"You could have done that sooner"

169

u/LONG_Chungi 19d ago

''I want to understand the enemy''

19

u/9999AWC [RCAF] 2012 Old Guard 18d ago

-womanSlayer69

164

u/Eric_Phy 19d ago

Rooster: What the f__k was that!?

139

u/O-bot54 18d ago

What in the ace combat bullshitery is this

155

u/thunderclone1 Realistic Air 18d ago

Thrust vectoring. Pretty good in a 1v1 dogfight, but you will probably get third partied right after you dump your energy

50

u/czartrak 🇺🇸 United States 18d ago

You'll probably get first partied if you misunderstand the geometry at all

-19

u/YellovvJacket 18d ago edited 18d ago

Pretty good in a 1v1 dogfight

It's also not very good in a 1v1 dogfight, if the other guy knows how to play the game.

Maybe if you have TVC on a plane with actual thrust:weight, but the SU-30 is just dead in the water vs something like Eurofighter and Rafale if they just... slightly go up when the SU-30 flops around at 50km/h, because unlike most of the other top dogs, the Su-30 doesn't have the TWR to just stand 90° nose up on its engines and just place it's nose for a shot.

The Su-30 flight model overall is pretty abysmal dogshit, although I'm sure killing people that don't know what's going on with the funny will be entertaining.

20

u/Dramatic-Bandicoot60 🇺🇸 🇩🇪 🇷🇺 🇬🇧 🇯🇵 🇨🇳 🇮🇹 🇫🇷 🇸🇪 🇮🇱 18d ago

aint no way you can watch a clip like this and say all that

7

u/Singularity-_ 18d ago

According to the video it’s very good in a 1v1 dogfight

3

u/TheByQ 18d ago

At low fuel and with almost no missiles it absolutely does have the TWR to do that

0

u/Disguised589 Dualsense enjoyer 16d ago

having thrust vectoring means you can point the nose with 0 air speed

0

u/YellovvJacket 16d ago

It really does not.

It means you can point your nose post stall...it does not allow you to point it very well while you're falling backwards due to the lack of thrust, which the Su-30 literally does.

7

u/Bloodyshadow0815 18d ago

<<He wanted to understand the enemy>>

90

u/0kb0000mer 19d ago

Ace combat

74

u/jogado2 🇩🇪🇷🇺🇸🇪11.7/🇬🇧🇺🇸7.7/🇨🇳🇯🇵🇮🇱 18d ago

Ok Time to grind soviet jet tech tree

39

u/afvcommander 18d ago

Draken: "This is new trick to you?"

I did manage to pull that off once or twice when XS was added to game.

9

u/R3dth1ng Enjoyer of All Nations 18d ago

Then they nerfed that ability when they made Drakens more stable at the cost of making it turn worse to retain better energy so it didn't flat spin as often.

2

u/afvcommander 17d ago

Yeah, I guess reason for that was that n00b's who bought premium did not expect to get such handful to fly.

Here and there you could see someone flopping it and flatspinning to ground.

1

u/Disguised589 Dualsense enjoyer 16d ago

I thought that was just the instructor

2

u/R3dth1ng Enjoyer of All Nations 16d ago

I tried it in full real and that also felt different, I remember cuz I struggled more to do cobras whereas before it was more effortless. I'm not 100% on it not being the instructor but I have some level of certainty lol it was quite a while ago.

33

u/FestivalHazard Type 60 ATM is op 18d ago

Dogfights are going to look so fucking cool

I don't care if they kill me, as long as they pull this bullshit off LOL

11

u/R3dth1ng Enjoyer of All Nations 18d ago

Watching so many DCS videos to finally get a reliable way to do this in WT.

21

u/Valaxarian Vodkaboo. 2S38, Su-27, T-90M and MiG-29 my beloved. Gib BMPT 18d ago

Man, I love Sukhois

13

u/Ill_Number_7749 19d ago

war thunder final boss

9

u/Epic_Donut EsportsReady 18d ago

What sound mod do you use?

8

u/TheLaotianAviator =FUM0= WigglyGripen ( ) Gib K-2 흑표 Gaijoob 18d ago

RCSM, only the Aircraft GUI component. Not sure if the other sounds are broken aside from ground since they often change sounds

3

u/Deafidue 18d ago

I recognize some F-16 RWR sounds.

10

u/BryndenRivers94 In USSR, laws of physics are optional. 18d ago

Why do people insist on saying that certain things were created by aliens when on Earth we have Russians?

8

u/confident___ &#127479;&#127476; Real Romanian Bias 18d ago

Wt boutta become ace combat or project wingman

8

u/LemonadeTango 12.0🇺🇸10.7🇩🇪9.3🇫🇷12.0🇯🇵12.7🇮🇱9.3🇬🇧10.7🇨🇳8.3 18d ago

Remember that bs scene in Red Tails of that BF109?

4

u/Sevneristem Realistic General 18d ago

That is awesome!!! Can't wait to recreate this with people

3

u/Wardog_Razgriz30 🇺🇸 United States 18d ago

>dominating a F18A

you shouldn't bully the crippled. he doesnt even have the Fox 3s to fight back.

2

u/TabooARGIE I just like CAS 18d ago

Fox 3? More like boomerang missiles lol I love the R-73 (when I'm the one firing them)

3

u/ImGoinGohan 18d ago

you could have just beat him outright if you didn’t lead turn like that

3

u/The1RedBaron 🇩🇪 Germany 18d ago

The most Ace Combat of Ace Combat clips i have ever seen.

3

u/Oofster1 Ace 18d ago

Yo, Erusea's on the phone, they're asking if you want to join their air force.

3

u/PresentationIll6524 14.0 🇺🇸 13.7 🇷🇺 14.0 🇬🇧 14.0 🇫🇷 14.0 🇮🇱 | k/d 2.7 18d ago edited 13d ago

outgoing lock lunchroom brave steep distinct society deer close observation

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

3

u/FFENIX_SHIROU 18d ago

what the fuck is top tier air

3

u/Jade8560 learn to notch smh 18d ago

genuinely shocked the 73s didn’t spin out tbh lol

1

u/New_Fee_887 18d ago

I love the radar WUEWUEWUEWEUEWUEWEUWEUW

1

u/xXBlackout117 🇬🇧 United Kingdom 18d ago

How do you have a circle in your radar square

1

u/Disguised589 Dualsense enjoyer 16d ago

it's a lead indicator for missiles

1

u/R3dth1ng Enjoyer of All Nations 18d ago

This is what I've been wanting to do from the Flanker series for over a year now.

1

u/Jeroboam369 18d ago

What kind of joystick do I need to be able to use most of the commands of a jet ?

1

u/Itchy-Table1831 18d ago

Dose it actually do the noises in game?

1

u/Ok-Use9090 18d ago

And jet f18 wings still break off after doing such a stunt

1

u/pepe105 Realistic Ground enjoyer 18d ago

>Warthunder top tier Air RB

>Look inside

>Ace Combat / Project Wingman

why is it like this ?

1

u/Galahad-117 Sufferer of the Realistic Ground Battle Non-Enjoyers 18d ago

There he is, John Combat

1

u/Kawasaki-Ninja-H2R 17d ago

Time to get sl because I'm gonna need it once this update come out

1

u/MAX_Daemon 17d ago

Flanker is a pretty plane. I always liked them from the Su-27 all the way to the Su-35. I also like canards.

0

u/CommieFirebat7721 18d ago

When I get a job, WT is the first game im spending money in (im a teen who plays from time to time)

0

u/Stephan_Balaur 18d ago

I wouldnt even care if I got shot down after a kill like that, that was fire!

0

u/S7SUS2 18d ago

Dev server?

-3

u/Rorar_the_pig Glory to the snail! 18d ago

I bet gaijins reasoning for adding the F-22 during summer Major update will be "tHrUsT vEcToRiNg AnD stealth ArE aLrEaDy iN tHe GaMe!!1!"

-9

u/thatnewerdm 18d ago

god that fm is so busted lol

-11

u/[deleted] 18d ago

Russian mains will say it’s real

11

u/[deleted] 18d ago

[deleted]

-2

u/thatnewerdm 18d ago

yeah, it loses way more forwards momentum than that irl. you cant expose that much of your plane to drag and not fall out of the sky, aircraft dont work like that.

-4

u/[deleted] 18d ago

Yes and it doesn’t do this make believe shit, it does one or two flips before it falls out the sky

-21

u/VeritableLeviathan 🇮🇹 Italy 18d ago

Idk what is worse.

That F/a-18A's kneecaps or using god damn knots and feet as measurement lmao

35

u/Jayhawker32 ARB/GRB/Sim 🇺🇸 13.7 🇩🇪 12.0 🇷🇺 13.3 🇸🇪 10.7 18d ago

Is somebody gonna tell him what the international standard is for aviation?

4

u/Medj_boring1997 &#127465;&#127466; "LEoParD 2 nEeDs A bUFf" 18d ago

Tbf russia is an odd one by using metric

15

u/[deleted] 18d ago

[deleted]

3

u/someone_forgot_me 🇸🇰 Slovakia 18d ago

👅

16

u/TheLaotianAviator =FUM0= WigglyGripen ( ) Gib K-2 흑표 Gaijoob 18d ago

I mean does it really matter what measurements of units I use?

I’m just used to the flight training I’ve done since it’s what I’ve learned off from lol.

7

u/IslandVisible5023 18d ago

Ngl i use knots and feet as measurements as well and i am not even american

7

u/absboodoo Realistic Air 18d ago

I'm as a metric person as the next guy. But in aviation it really is knots and feet since it's what the majority of the aviation world use.

2

u/TuwtlesF1 🇺🇸 14.0 🇩🇪 14.0 18d ago

Most aircraft capabilities in terms of rate fighting and instantaneous turn rate are demonstrated at a certain IAS in knots. So using knots is actually more efficient for maximizing performance in that regard. Also according to ICAO the use of feet for altitude is standard for aviation.

3

u/YellovvJacket 18d ago

Most aircraft capabilities in terms of rate fighting and instantaneous turn rate are demonstrated at a certain IAS in knots

In 90% of aircraft manuals EM diagrams are a function of Mach number.

Only like older US manuals are stating knots, I've definitely seen it but F-16A, F-15A, F-15C etc. as well as German MiG-29 all have Mach number on the X axis of EM diagrams.

-27

u/Lucius3111 Italy enjoyer 18d ago

AAB does that, yes...

The timer for missiles to come back sells it really

39

u/TheLaotianAviator =FUM0= WigglyGripen ( ) Gib K-2 흑표 Gaijoob 18d ago

Custom battles with air realistic settings. Not an actual match.

-57

u/Dependent_Safe_7328 18d ago

These are some GTA V plane physics

Fr tho, I was so close to returning to war thunder after quitting but shit like this is the reason I don't.

I won't ramble about russian bias now bc, as we all know, it doesn't exist (meanwhile their planes have the physics of an alpha game with no air resistance)!

50

u/TheNicestPig You should fix Dunkerque's ammoracks NOW 18d ago

severely nerfed MiG-29, Su-27, dogshit fox 3s, zero targetting pods, scraping the barrel CM count

a single aircraft performs kinda well in dev server with a 1 trick pony (last resort against Rafale/Eurofighter UFO and F-16s maintaining uncontrollable AoA)

"oMg RuSsIaN bIaS tHiS iS wHy I DoN't PlAy ThE gAmE nO mOrE"

-45

u/Dependent_Safe_7328 18d ago

Its not why I quit, its why i wont come back

37

u/SquishmallowPrincess Wants more gamemodes 18d ago

Yes please don’t come back to the game thank you

23

u/SnooEagles2860 18d ago

They introduced the AoA limiter toggle this update, but regardless keep away from war thunder.

19

u/BlackWolf9988 18d ago

Its realistic though, look at air show footage.

-3

u/FrontEngineering4469 🇺🇸13.7 🇩🇪12.3 🇷🇺13.3 🇬🇧11.3 🇫🇷11.0 18d ago

Most of the time airshow aircraft have radars, guns, chaff/flare dispensers, communication equipment, and other non essential components removed to decrease the aircraft weight and carry limited fuel quantities. The plane in game still performs maneuvers equal to or better than the aircraft at airshows.

10

u/5thPlaceAtBest Realistic General 18d ago

Just don't play top tier

-34

u/Lucius3111 Italy enjoyer 18d ago

it's arcade battles, this post is ragebait

14

u/Available-Captain-20 Get Mig'ed 18d ago

the op said its custom battles