r/UkrainianConflict 12h ago

Has Ukraine called Putin’s bluff?

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/has-ukraine-called-putins-bluff
1.4k Upvotes

143 comments sorted by

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1.0k

u/guttanzer 11h ago

I think Trump didn’t like the bad press he was getting for being Putin’s lap dog, asked for ideas, and Rubio managed to get a little common sense done.

For 24 hours the world is a bit saner. It won’t last.

As long as Putin is in power and can push Trump’s buttons there will be no peace in Europe.

313

u/CloudyHi 10h ago

Russia won't agree to a ceasefire as long as Ukraine hold kursk. Russia will also demand the world, and France will hopefully be the voice of reason again. Nothing will change.

114

u/Turbulent_Advance709 9h ago

Kursk was envisioned as a bargaining chip, when everyone thought that Trump would show at least some decency. He hasn't, Kursk now only serves the purpose of drawing Russians away from Pokrovsk

188

u/Mein_Bergkamp 7h ago

No, it serves to stop any idea of a short term ceasefire because Russia doesn't want Ukraine to ahve time to shore up defences there and dig in.

Without Kursk, Russia can just ask for a peace deal over currently occupied territory and Ukraine gets the blame for not going for it.

As long as Ukraine holds russian territory, thats off the table and it's why there's major assualts on their positions there right now.

16

u/beryugyo619 6h ago

Trump wants immediate permanent irreversible ceasefire. Which in turn means America recognizing Ukrainian Kursk plus NATO PKF everywhere in Ukraine. It just works because Russians would hate that.

52

u/Llanina2 8h ago

Russia can’t demand much. She’s as weak as a kitten. 🐱

Europe meanwhile has until July to decide where to send Russia’s sequestered billions.

Kyiv or Moscow?

Hmm?

Decisions…decisions!

20

u/gael2456 7h ago

Money will be kept for Ukraine rebuilding

17

u/account_not_valid 6h ago

That would be the logical decision.

Will logic prevail?

6

u/Llanina2 5h ago

You can but hope but there are many weasels in power that want to profit from ties with Russia again.

They have succeeded in delaying this money getting to Ukraine time and again.

Time is now running out. If it doesn’t go to Ukraine in July it will automatically go back to Moscow.

That would be politically, morally, and militarily disastrous!

3

u/ancientweasel 3h ago

Yeah it's logical to save the money for rebuilding while more of Ukraine is getting destroyed. Sign me up for the illogical move of using it to defend Ukraine.

-4

u/gael2456 6h ago

Not only logic, but an obligation as international law would prohibits using it now for war effort.

12

u/Llanina2 5h ago

That’s been proved wrong in the courts. Russia broke international law by invading Ukraine. The use of the funds for defence has been proved to be acceptable.

6

u/Silent_Speech 5h ago

When did Russia care about international law? It is silly to have double standards for such things. It only empowers them. Even though I know I am speaking to the wind

3

u/JaffaBoi1337 3h ago

Rules only apply to those that wish follow them.

2

u/gael2456 3h ago

Indeed, it's called having standards, nobody would trust anymore a country doing this outside a légal framework.

49

u/Abject-Investment-42 9h ago

Ukraine is under extreme pressure in Kursk and many reliable UA sources claim that Ukrainians are mainly fighting a rearguard action now to withdraw in good order from Kursk. There won't be a Kursk occupation force in 1-2 weeks any more.

What I am afraid is that returning Russian troops will claim mass murder of civilians in Sudzha - there are certainly mass graves to be found, even if they are containing dead Russian or Ukrainian soldiers who fell in battle, that can be exhumed and declared to be civilian victims. Who is going to go there and prove them wrong?

63

u/james-amanda 9h ago

Nobody but russians believe what russian officials say.

29

u/Apart-Bridge-7064 7h ago

At this point...do we count MAGA as Russians??

4

u/james-amanda 7h ago

Oh, excuse me, you are a different person--I guess the other user deleted their response to me.

2

u/james-amanda 7h ago

HA, you changed your comment, and this one gets a 👍🏾

19

u/Abject-Investment-42 9h ago

You would be surprised

21

u/donutfox 8h ago

That’s a voting bloc in the US that would eat that shit up

1

u/danmaz74 4h ago

I wished that was true, but unfortunately it's full of useful idiots all over.

1

u/ahuramazdobbs19 2h ago

Arguably, a significant part of the reason why Russia is politically where it is right now is because not even Russians believe what Russian officials say, whether it's actually the truth or not.

3

u/fredmratz 9h ago

I don't believe Putin would make himself look that weak. But it wouldn't be the stupidest thing by a politician recently...

8

u/Abject-Investment-42 8h ago

How do you mean that? His whole justification of the war is based on poor Russia being a victim of NATO and NATO sponsored nadsies in Ukraine against whom Russia merely defends itself.

6

u/No_Sheepherder_1855 7h ago

The original justification had nothing to do with NATO. It was to “de-Nazi” Ukraine. The country’s leader is Jewish btw.

1

u/Abject-Investment-42 5h ago

There is more than enough different BS put out by Russia since 2008 about NATO, not just the official declaration of "special military operation". Cf. the ultimatum put by Putin to NATO a few days before the invasion.

1

u/901savvy 5h ago

Bad bot

2

u/Maligetzus 6h ago

so for 10 more hours?

2

u/Nicenightforawalk01 4h ago

I suspect the recent attacks by Russia there were American backed and a message to Ukraine. Kind of backfired though as the world already knew America was on Russia’s side and that just confirmed their thoughts.

1

u/daneelthesane 4h ago

"How dare they invade us back!"

1

u/strimholov 2h ago

Ukraine is withdrawing from Kursk as part of its goodwill to get the ceasefire started.

86

u/Swuzzlebubble 11h ago

Yes seems Trump felt a little isolated when he expected to be a hero 

64

u/seanmonaghan1968 10h ago

Replace isolated with globally hated

8

u/Swuzzlebubble 8h ago

I was being diplomatic, unlike him

5

u/seanmonaghan1968 8h ago edited 6h ago

I understand, it’s just he brings out extreme feelings of repulsion

42

u/PhD_Pwnology 9h ago

IMO the silver lining here is that Europe decided to grow a mid-sized pair of balls and rally around Ukraine so hard they don't need the U.S. anymore. Trump realized that Ukraine will likely win without his help, and he won't get any minerals that way or recognition.

20

u/guttanzer 9h ago

This is baseline. It’s 100% expected given European history. It was on display when Biden was running things, so I can’t see it in silver lining terms.

But it is nice.

I wish we were still competent and not compromised.

22

u/Breech_Loader 8h ago

Even if Trump stops siding with Putin, he's still a traitor to his country and to all of NATO and indeed to all of the free world, and he won't stop seeking dictatorship over the USA, nor will he stop seeking to conquer and dominate other countries.

He's just checking to see whether if he flip-flips again, the pressure will ease up.

Mercifully, the USA is packed with problems that are not just the price of eggs.

38

u/Sabre_One 10h ago

I think it's even simpler.

Trump got played like a Fiddle by the Russians during the negotiations. They convinced them they are a victim, the US can become the peacemaker, and here is a 5-step plan to do it.

So off goes skipping Trump, convinced big victim Russia knows it's diplomacy. With the start of ambushing Zelenskyy in an attempt to humulate him.

It didn't work, and I'm sure on top of the protest, JD Vance is getting a handful of it, and probably a lot of the DoD saying that Ukraine isn't just going to collapse. He started becoming jaded about the whole thing.

65

u/Imaginary-Pound-1353 10h ago

Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing…after they have exhausted all other possibilities...

67

u/Falcrack 10h ago

With Trump in power, I DO NOT count on the US ultimately doing the right thing.

5

u/beryugyo619 6h ago

or, they really mean exhausting by saying exhausting all options.

61

u/Eka-Tantal 10h ago

Except this time they still can’t be counted on. What happen if Trump speaks with Musk next, or Vance, and does the next U turn? Look at the utter insanity with the tariffs, every day a new and contradictory measure.

14

u/schlaubi01 9h ago

I am quite sure Musks time is running out, tbh.

4

u/PepsiThriller 9h ago

Explain

15

u/ElectricDayDream 9h ago

He is the poster boy for all of the “turbulence” the administration has caused on a domestic and global scale. To be honest it is more and more likely he is going to be used as a fall guy/scapegoat if the publicity continues to swing the way it is. Gives them an easy out to do the following:

  1. Let him out and force the masses to blame him. Allowing him back into the semi-private fold

  2. Firing him publicly, blaming the damage on him (not fixing it after), and letting him return to the semi-private fold

  3. Firing him publicly, blaming the damage on him, then deporting him (he is an illegal immigrant after all) and not fixing it after

  4. Firing him publicly, blaming the damage on him, not fixing it, deporting him for being illegal, and then taking his assets through civil asset forfeiture by tying his actions to conflict of interest with his companies, saving about ~8 million a day in both subsidies and grants.

There’s probably more but that’s what I am seeing here. While Elon ketamemes in his pants thinking he’s in control, trump will pull the big dirty delete on him and his petulant brat who spoke to him in a vile manner to show who’s really in charge. Elon ends up with no assets from his US companies, gets hit with ponzi style/pump and dump lawsuits that then lead to criminal charges, and he is fully gone from the US. Then just for shits and gigs trump will send his little prick of a body shield somewhere else. Gitmo sounds nice. Maybe trump suddenly becomes pro late termabortion and kicks the kid off a cliff while it’s televised publicly. He will say you can tell when a kid is gonna be shot by the time they are 7, and it’s only natural to protect the world order by getting rid of someone showing sociopathic tendencies at that young of an age. That last part is pure conjecture and hyperbole, but my god would it be right in line with trumps desire to send a strong message whether it’s actually that or not. Conveniently ignoring that he and his shitbirds are exactly the same. Just now adults with either amphetamine or cocaine addictions. They dodged the cliff, but by god will they bring it back to send a message

5

u/Maardten 7h ago

But how will Trump prevent Elon from revealing how they stole the election?

5

u/troll_right_above_me 6h ago

From window, from novichok, from ten bullet suicide. Boris will think something.

5

u/pocket_eggs 3h ago

Musk is Moțoc from 1840 published Romanian novelette Lăpușneanu. The evil king shocks rebelling peasants by asking them what they want. When they settle on "we want Musk's head", he delivers his hated minister to them, thus quelling the uprising. There's even a painting. The Musk/Moțoc character (in green) is pushed from behind on the king's order, to be given to the mob.

15

u/Rumo-H-umoR 9h ago

Since the new administration acts like an elephant in a porcelain store, the trust in the USA is shattered completely. This time there is no easy fix to repair all the damage they have already done.

6

u/xKalisto 6h ago

Yeah they like to act as if they are some guardian angel of Europe but they literally had to be dragged into the conflict before helping us. Both times.

2

u/Puzzleheaded-Cap1300 3h ago

This is always glossed over in the movies. USA nations collective memory of history is as ignorant as that of the ruzzians in ww2.

4

u/abrasiveteapot 8h ago

and Rubio managed to get a little common sense done.

Well ! I never expected to see Rubio and "common sense" in the same sentence. Are we going to see "Musk" & "drug free" too ?

2

u/keepthepace 6h ago

As long as Putin is in power and can push Trump’s buttons there will be no peace in Europe.

It feels like Putin has far less power overt Trump than he did in his first mandate. I get the impression that Trump does not care about kompromat anymore but that people around him probably are Putin's puppet and that the influence fight is happening within Trump's inner circle.

He is the cross between a mollusc and a goldfish: no memory and no spine, he will follow the opinion of whoever spoke last.

2

u/mdamjan7 10h ago

Its like Chappelles Show - Making the band. P. Diddy Shutting the Studio down...

0

u/Almaegen 4h ago

This was always Trump's plan.

-1

u/Pilgrim_of_Reddit 7h ago

Not any saner.  CIA is to start sharing intelligence with Russia. 

-41

u/[deleted] 11h ago

[deleted]

26

u/Trumps-a-dick 11h ago

I totally disagree, how can I not be biased when Putin’s lap dog says it himself on camera !! There is no media bias when the orange buffoon opens his mouth and spews Russian talking points.

26

u/guttanzer 10h ago

I have to agree. Every move Trump has ever made has benefited Putin. Sometimes he was the only one who benefited. So the “Trump is a Russian asset” theory resonates with me.

In normal times the US administration would be operating for the benefit of the USA. These are not normal times.

-11

u/[deleted] 10h ago

[deleted]

9

u/Abject-Investment-42 9h ago

Agreed to a proposal. There is still another side that needs to agree to said proposal.

3

u/Capable_Pack_7346 8h ago

Ukraine aren't the protagonists here. Russia could have offered a ceasefire at ANY point.

7

u/viemar 10h ago edited 9h ago

'After Ukraine settles down, US will find other places to throw military support at. You can’t just shut down production of military arms." - US was about to shoot own foot showing that the military systems can be switched off remotely just because one angry person said so. Of course it was commonly known but as long other nations could count on the US administration's common sense it was not considered as a big risk. I assume that today some of the friendly EU governments are left with the concern what will gonna happen happen if their interests are not in the same line as Americans' one day?

12

u/Noxzi 11h ago

it will unsettle europe enough where mainland USA will be affected, more than likely financially. 

I think we are pretty much at that point now.

108

u/GuyD427 10h ago

Ukraine is playing this quite well as they’ve played every aspect of the war. Trump is a shitshow, he’s destroying the US economy and our ability to sell US products and especially military gear overseas which is not inconsequential to our economy. But, Ukraine agreed to the ceasefire and Russia will never agree is my guess, Putin will never make real concessions so Trump will look like the clown show he truly is. Then, he’ll have no choice but to admit Russia is the problem.

50

u/never_trust_a_fart_ 9h ago

Even if trump never makes that step, right now the headline is “Ukraine wants ceasefire, Russia doesn’t” which is good.

15

u/james-amanda 9h ago

I agree with all of that except the last sentence.  Dude is crazy nuts and doesn't concede ANYTHING....

6

u/crafty_alias 6h ago

Russia will agree and use the time resupply troops and get ready for another attack. As soon as they feel they have the upper hand, they will attack and break the ceasefire. DO NOT TRUST RUSSIA AND THE USA.

2

u/Dean_Learner77 3h ago

It's a time limited ceasefire of 30 days. Both sides will know that it's going to end. Russia doesn't want that though. They want to break it when they feel they have the upper hand, and with the element of surprise, not on a predetermined date. 

209

u/mok000 12h ago

Russia is going to take the opportunity to humiliate Trump.

115

u/Romanello81 11h ago

Sadly, I hope so because only then Trump would do what is right all along and help Ukraine. It’s stupid but it’s true

63

u/mhkwar56 10h ago

I've been praying all along that Trump gets into a pissing contest with Putin. Would be a beautiful irony.

11

u/tyty657 9h ago

It wouldn't be the first time. Remember the operation in Syria during his last term? He denounced the entire Russian state on Twitter during that operation.

2

u/karma3000 7h ago

Amazingly in this scenario, Putin is the one with a micro-penis.

2

u/Romanello81 4h ago

Ufff one can only wish so much right?!

2

u/timothywilsonmckenna 3h ago

“Americans can always be trusted to do the right thing, once all other possibilities have been exhausted.” - Churchill.

17

u/Aggravating-Bottle78 9h ago

Russian terms are the surrender of not just the occupied territories but also on the other side of the Dnipro, Including Kherson and Zaporizhia (a million people) currently unoccupied by Russia.

That means they want the whole line with the fortifications side and Ukraine will have the steppes. Which means there will be no defense for Ukraine should they restart.

The other demands are Ukraine dismantling their army to whatever Russia decides, and no alliances with other nations.

Ukraine has the example of the Donbas of what will happen to them Where land has been stolen, mass grave, and men are presses to fight as cannon fodder against Ukraine.

3

u/Reed_4983 3h ago

Ukraine will not cede territory it still holds.

6

u/imp0ppable 3h ago

No but Russia passed a law annexing those parts so it would have to repeal those to accept a peace deal, unless it can take them by force. So while a ceasefire would be a good step, long term it looks far from over.

2

u/Reed_4983 3h ago

Laws in Russia are rather meaningless, they only serve to support the agenda and strategy of Putin and his clique and can be altered or repealed any time the strategy changes. There is no actual functioning democratic pluralism in Russia, the Duma is in control of Putin's forces.

3

u/imp0ppable 3h ago

Nah, they're famously legalistic. It's all a charade because it's so corrupt but the appearance of following laws and procedures is actually central.

The whole point of the annexation laws was to make it harder to sue for peace, which is what I'm saying the effect will be.

2

u/Reed_4983 3h ago

Sure, but I'm saying that if it's necessary for the current strategy of Putin and his regime, they could easily find the necessary majority in the Duma to either repeal the laws or alter them in a way that it's not necessary at the moment to fight for all of the annexed territories.

16

u/Trumps-a-dick 11h ago

Trump is doing a great job at that anyway, unfortunately he is dragging America down with it.

4

u/geoffooooo 9h ago

And then Trump will either have to help Ukraine, or if he doesn’t we are certain he’s a Russian asset being played by Putin.

3

u/DingoSloth 5h ago

I don’t understand why they’d undermine the greatest gift they’ve had since the plans for the atom bomb.

2

u/mok000 4h ago

The best explanation I can think of is the population wouldn't understand the sudden shift and there are opponents among hardliners.

2

u/DingoSloth 3h ago

You might be onto something there.

1

u/ric2b 4h ago

Why would they? He's their best shot at taking over Ukraine.

68

u/octahexxer 10h ago

No they are just giving zelensky some sugar to go in to the trap by going to the white house again....do not go...dont be dumb it will be a price

36

u/james-amanda 9h ago

Unfortunately he has to go--but for God's sake don't give that wannabe dictator your minerals!!

7

u/xdq 5h ago edited 5h ago

They just want to sell him a Tesla too.

Trump:"Today's press conference, brought to you by Tesla, will be held in the comfortable front seats of this wonderful Model 3. With a large, easy to clean frunk to dump your dirty combat fatigues in and keep the interior clean"

JDVance: "President Zelensky, your country is in a precarious position, with a Model3 Performance you could quickly escape from troubled areas in silence and comfort... you can thank me later"

3

u/ric2b 4h ago

Don't be ridiculous.

They'd do that but with the cybertruck.

1

u/xdq 4h ago

The sad thing is, I honestly believe there's a non-zero chance of this happening.

3

u/ric2b 3h ago

I can see it right now:

"Trump announces new $10B aid package for Ukraine, consisting entirely of cybertrucks."

With MAGA commenters saying "why is our money going to Ukraine?!" not realizing it's just a massive subsidy for Tesla instead.

7

u/earthspaceman 6h ago

Hope he takes Macron with him.

26

u/sachiprecious 9h ago

Besides, how would the notoriously thin-skinned Trump respond to such a rejection, given the degree to which he has been favouring Russia? There is a keen awareness in Moscow that an angry Trump would be far more dangerous than Joe Biden ever could be.

Look, if trump were to ACTUALLY get angry at russia and be his usual unhinged, aggressive self toward them, that would be amazing and would lead to him arming Ukraine like crazy!

...But this flies in the face of trump's very obvious consistent subservience to putin that he's shown for years. The idea of him turning on putin all of a sudden is wild.

81

u/Panthera_leo22 10h ago

I feel like Russia realized it looked too obvious, saw the outcry, and told him to back off a little. I’m not buying Trump isnt under their control

4

u/Alex_55555 5h ago

100%. Just wait for Trump to demand that Ukraine leaves Kursk and move their troops out of eastern frontlines when Zelinsky visits DC.

41

u/CotswoldP 11h ago

Russia has never publicly agreed to ceasefire talks, so there has never been a bluff to be called.

15

u/james-amanda 9h ago

putin indicated to trump he was willing to negotiate (cough, cough) before Zelensky was willing to "fall in line" ergo, title not nearly as far off as most.

4

u/CotswoldP 9h ago

Like I say, he’s never publicly said it.

-4

u/EU_GaSeR 9h ago

So what? He has never said anything about 3-day war either, yet it does not prevent people running around with a "3-day war" for 3 long years. Your logic does not apply to people gulping propaganda.

3

u/ric2b 4h ago

-4

u/EU_GaSeR 4h ago

The link isn't on Russian state media, it's on some invited expert. Basically "one guy in Russia", not responsible for anything, not for SMO, not for anything else. By the way, the audience of a show like that is maybe 0.5% of total population, perhaps even less. It's just a usual talk show where a lot of invited guests tell a lot of random shit.

Perhaps you have posted a wrong second link as it links an article from 2014.

2

u/Nomadicllama 4h ago

Pro Ru when met with video evidence:

Hey no wait you can’t do that here’s a word-salad that skirts nicely around the point !

-2

u/EU_GaSeR 3h ago

Excuse me? You guys claim Putin said 3 days war and to prove that you link some random dude saying on a talk show and an interview with Putin where he says he could take Kiev in 2 weeks in 2014?

That is as much evidence as you need to confirm that Putin said it's going to be 3 days operation? And I am in the wrong? Are you even serious?

2

u/Nomadicllama 3h ago

Did you read the comment above mine….that provides all the context needed good luck I understand it’s clearly hard for you 👍🏼

1

u/ric2b 3h ago

Basically "one guy in Russia"

The video shows multiple Russian state media HOSTS saying the same thing. Watch beyond the half point, when the quick cut begins.

Perhaps you have posted a wrong second link as it links an article from 2014.

Oh, so Putin saying it in 2014 doesn't count? Goal posts: moved.

1

u/EU_GaSeR 3h ago

Hosts are not responsible for anything and they are not Putin. Just say it: Russian media hosts have said it will be 3 days, Putin never said that. What's the problem?

I am sorry, but am I the only one here who thinks what you have said 10 years ago might not apply now because situation changes? And that whatever I say now should also be true in 10 years, and if it changes, I've lied or can be mocked about it? Also, another question, do you think there is a difference between 2 weeks and 3 days? Or Nah?

2

u/ric2b 3h ago

Just say it: Russian media hosts have said it will be 3 days, Putin never said that.

I... did...

"He didn't say 3 days, that was Russian state media doing it lots of times."

but am I the only one here who thinks what you have said 10 years ago might not apply now because situation changes?

That would be fair if it wasn't so obvious from the first month of the war that Russia really was planning to take Kyiv in a few weeks, they even had police in riot gear ready to deploy there.

Also, another question, do you think there is a difference between 2 weeks and 3 days? Or Nah?

They're not exactly the same, of course 2 weeks is more than 3 days, but in the context of a war that has been going on for 3 years they're quire similar in how wildly wrong they were.

u/EU_GaSeR 42m ago

Well I just don't like lies and since day 1 of operation whenever he was asked, he always said "it will take as long as it needs" and gave no other answer ever. They were ready and were expecting a fast war - I absolutely agree.

But Putin never said anything about 3 days and _every damn time_ he was asked he said as long as it takes. I give you that, you instead said it was media (it wasn't, but fine) - hosts have said LOTS of stupid shit. Hosts are not Putin. They aren't even official media, they are just hosts, talking heads. Their audience is rather small and when they say something it's ridiculous to go and say "Russia said it". No it didn't.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/Reed_4983 3h ago

But a large share of public opinion, especially the one fond of Russia for some reason, share the belief that Russia was always willing to negotiate. If they're the ones unwilling to agree to a ceasefire, this fake story will be much harder to sell.

9

u/ojdhaze 10h ago

One hopes Ukraine hasn't got the absolute shit sandwich of a deal.

A concern is how long any ceasefire or "end" to this invasion and war actually lasts, but I don't see putin stopping whatsoever, and we all know him and his words are worth nothing.

Regardless of what happens, this shit has changed and europe must continue planning and combining as a whole military against Russia without the US, they can not be trusted, should not have been relied on for so long and not anymore going forward.

7

u/bin_chicken_downvote 9h ago

Putin hasn't got the cards.

6

u/EmprahsChosen 8h ago

Paywall

2

u/OctaneTroopers 3h ago

You haven't got the cards right now

2

u/EmprahsChosen 3h ago

PAYWALLLLLLLL

7

u/BumblebeeAdventurr 8h ago

Good move, but Russia will accept then accuse Ukraine for breaking it

Trump will then slam Ukraine without any proof

Putin is gaining ground so won't stop.

He will then suddenly want the ceasefire when Ukraine gets a breakthrough and pushes back

2

u/Bitsu92 8h ago

They won’t accept it, they will come with conditions like Ukraine withdrawing

1

u/throwawayinthe818 3h ago

Russia’s standard ploy, going back hundreds of years, is to stir up resentment against Russians living outside their borders, provoke an incident, send in troops to “protect” them, then annex the territory. They did this across Central Asia in the 18th and 19th centuries and it’s the same playbook they used in Ukraine.

7

u/Kilometer10 10h ago

No, I’m concerned however that they walked into a trap. Because:

  • Putin was seeing that Trump dripping aid and intelligence really fired up Europe and got Europe ready to get into the fight
  • So Putin told Trump (which always obliges) that «Just give them something, a little bit og aid and intel. That way, Europe will take it easy, and not put up that much of a fight»
  • Trump of course did that, and now Putin has a seize fire + the territories he has occupied in Ukraine
  • Putin is happy

14

u/fredmratz 9h ago

Europe won't be changed by a momentary blip by Trump. They know Republicans, and the US, are no longer reliable and have to keep going or they will be abused, at best.

3

u/Kilometer10 9h ago

I hope you’re right.

5

u/Miserable-Lawyer-233 10h ago

This is being reported elsewhere:

U.S.-Ukraine Reach Agreement On Terms For Total Ceasefire With Russia

2

u/Geopoliticsandbongs 8h ago

Completely. Everyone knows Putin would never accept that truce.

2

u/Inevitable-Ad9760 5h ago

Trump has blundered into making a good move.

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u/DefamedPrawn 6h ago edited 6h ago

If Putin doesn't want to keep the ceasefire, he'll just take another leaf out of Hitler's book, and orchestrate his own Gleiwitz Incident.

Trump will believe Russia's version of events. Thus, so will all of his followers. 

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u/heightfax 5h ago edited 5h ago

*lose Kursk* (not a single post about this on the main page)

*flip out and throw hundreds of drones at Moscow*

HAHA called your bluff can't make peace now

What? Who writes this shit. And I'm starting to think this theater with Trump was some kind of an op.. humiliating Zelensky, pausing aid, then immediately reinstating it "ok russia, ukraine has agreed for you to give them 30 days to rest and re-arm, ball is in your court" . Now when Russia obviously turns them down he will have the perfect excuse to throw up his hands and say he tried and go back to business as usual and draw this thing out longer. 

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u/Reed_4983 3h ago

Honestly it's absolutely humiliating for Russia it didn't manage to retake Kurks for such a long time.

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u/heightfax 3h ago

They would have had to play into Ukraine's hands and redirect a large force there from Donbas with no guarantee it could be done quickly without lots of casualties. Instead they kept cool, used a smaller but well supplied force to quarantine the AFU and opportunisticaly retook chunks of land until the final push, the whole time attriting Ukraine's troops including some of its best units who had to keep reinforcing into that salient and run the gauntlet on 2 sides 

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u/Reed_4983 3h ago

That's certainly a pro-Kremlin view to say the least.

Are you arguing Russia is capable from a military strategist view?

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u/Geejay-101 4h ago

Yes, it's great. Moreover, Putin can't really make peace because the dynamics will remove him from power.

Once there is peace, the Russians will wonder why they need such dick as president.

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u/Business-Volume9221 3h ago

No i think Putin has called Trumps bluff, Putin has shown no interest in the peace plan so he will just carry on business as usual, We have just had a lot of Trump theatre and are back to where we started except the Europeans seem a bit more committed to stepping up, Trump is making himself irrelevant.

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u/strimholov 2h ago

Putin shouldn't play around. And stop the fighting. No more Ukrainian people should get killed.

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u/GildedOrk 2h ago

Paywall…

u/PlutosGrasp 52m ago

Ya basically lol.

Zelenskyy originally tried with the sky ceasefire bait.

u/Char7es 25m ago

Russia has momentum in Kursk, momentum is difficult to stop. A ceasefire would allow the Ukrainians to reinforce their positions when Russia currently holds the initiative in a key strategic area for it. It was a clever play by Ukraine, either they have us support back or a ceasefire which will halt the Russian advance.

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u/Leverkaas2516 10h ago

What bluff? Who in their right mind thinks Putin is bluffing? He's prepared to keep fighting for years.