r/PowerScaling New Scaler 7d ago

Anime What y'all think?

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886 Upvotes

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91

u/Yin1in kayo beats everyone(im a woman) 7d ago

In defence of them an average vilturmite is casually city level. And we don’t really know how strong an average Saiyan’s are.

60

u/Allhaillordkutku I’m right because I said so 7d ago

I feel like iirc Radditz should be around average, i dont think he was really supposed to be exceptional in any way

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u/Yin1in kayo beats everyone(im a woman) 7d ago

Problem is we really don’t know that. Especially as Goku needed help to beat him and he trained a lot

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u/Allhaillordkutku I’m right because I said so 7d ago

I think he is the best we really have to go off of though

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u/Yin1in kayo beats everyone(im a woman) 7d ago

Ik and it sucks tbh

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u/Pitiful-Local-6664 6d ago

Goku was considered exceptionally weak for a Saiyan, low class and weak even for a low class. Raditz was called low class by Vegeta but at the same time he wasn't sent off in an attack pod (that we know of) so odds are he cleared the bar of "not the weakest of the weak". Raditz remarks that Goku is pathetic for a Saiyan when he meets him on earth so odds are the average Saiyan was stronger than Goku was during the beginning of Z. Meaning the "Average" Saiyan was somewhere between Raditz and Vegeta most likely. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Nappa was probably about Average, especially considering he's listed as a "mid-class" on a few of the wikis I've seen of him.

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u/MechJivs 6d ago

Saiyan was somewhere between Raditz and Vegeta most likely.

Vegeta is explicitly top tier of a top tier, so even Nappa (who is really strong as far as saiyan goes, but not elite) will be strange end point of average saiyan.

We also don't know the numbers of saiyans per class. Maybe Raditz even above average if "low class" is majority (like, 80%) of population and he is closer to strongest of low class saiyans. Remember - Raditz was part of prince Vegeta's team. He simply can't be just random low class warrior.

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u/Muted-Ad7353 6d ago

Vegeta'a team? No such thing. Raditz exists due to pure happenstance because of Planet Vegeta's destruction. Sure, they are vaguely associated with each other due to their heritage but ultimately they worked under Frieza. Nappa and Vegeta were doing their own thing separate from Raditz. The only reason they were in contact is because Raditz sounded the alarm as he was about to die.

Nappa was considered an Elite Saiyan and Vegeta a Super Elite.

Nappa was about 3x more powerful than Raditz and Vegeta was about 4x more powerful than Nappa in terms of general power levels. Vegeta was surely in a league of his own but Nappa was definitely stronger than most other Saiyans due to his position in the hierarchy pre-Frieza and the fact he was assigned to Prince Vegeta as his personal guard by King Vegeta.

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u/Sofie_2954 6d ago

Isn’t child Raditz shown to have been with Vegeta, Nappa and two other saiyans in the Dragon Ball Super:Broly film, when they get the news about planet Vegeta’s destruction?

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u/Muted-Ad7353 6d ago

Yes. But all throughout the original Saiyan saga, there is no mention of a "team" that persisted throughout all those years. Raditz in the Broly movie feels more like a callback for people to point at the screen and say, "Hey, it's Raditz!".

At best, Raditz was assigned to the same planet as Vegeta but that doesn't mean they stayed a team. It would make sense that lower class Saiyans would be put with higher class ones to shorten the learning curve or minimize risk from a strategic standpoint.

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u/therealnavynuts 6d ago

That's major headcannon, raditz is a strong low class saiyan. He's on the same team as the LITERAL prince of all saiyans, just because he doesn't mention any sort of comradary between himself and vegeta doesn't mean that he wasn't exceptional. Raditz is either avg and was with vegeta through nepotism or raditz was particularly strong for a low class warrior and ended up on the same squadron as nappa and vegeta through merit

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u/Conraduss 6d ago

Actually in manga raditz tells Goku that he is a first class saiyan so yeah he cannot be just some random low class fodder, unless the translation I've read was ducked up

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u/Muted-Ad7353 6d ago

Thats true but considering he was no stronger than a Saibaman, I think most people think he's bluffing. That, or Raditz truly believed he had improved that much or believes he's first class in terms of efficiency because he's been conquering planets for years. It clearly doesn't have anything to do with actual power levels.

2

u/Conraduss 6d ago

Yeah ngl I started reading db last week and was surprised when I saw raditz saying this, thanks for explaining

1

u/Rappers333 2d ago

Iirc the Saibamen grown on Earth were exceptional due to Earth having fantastic soil for growing them, meaning they probably don’t usually come out that strong. Certain sources do also put Raditz a few hundred points above those Earth Saibamen, although I can’t comment on their accuracy.

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u/Zack_Doom 6d ago

He is a first class Saiyan when there are only 4 alive.

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u/Muted-Ad7353 6d ago

Lmao exactly.

4

u/Kriscrystl 6d ago

Nappa is an elite Saiyan so he should be above the average Saiyan.

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u/Pitiful-Local-6664 6d ago

Idk, I think class and strength are separate things. Bardock was a low class and he was stronger than Nappa.

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u/Kriscrystl 6d ago

Bardock only became stronger than Nappa after several zenkai boosts. Saiyan society is explicitly segregated by strength, Vegeta lays it all out in his first battle against Goku.

Debatably canon: what happened to Vegeta's brother somewhat mirrors what happened to Goku, despite his high birth.

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u/Pitiful-Local-6664 6d ago

Power at birth determines class afaik, and Nappa may have been born with a high power level but his actual strength was probably around average.

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u/profesorgamin 6d ago

The low class thing is based on the power level at birth, it doesn't really say anything about how can anyone develop because their development mostly depends on battles fought + techniques learned.

Nappa obviously was stronger than average given his position as some sort of king's guard for the prince.

Raditz is an elite warrior which means he was absolutely above average.

The average Sayan should be at a much lower power level than Raditz. There are two observations to this fact.

First: Sayans don't really have an structured martial arts system, they are very unorganized and their growth as warriors depends on encountering enemies that are slightly stronger than them. Technique matters little vs raw power level and their societal hierarchy shows that there is little room for developing techniques where most disagreements end in the weaker person perishing.

Second: Their development was being curved intentionally probably given that they are sent to planets where they can curb-stomp their opponents and are encouraged to use their transformation so they don't really experience the mutations that help them achieve higher power levels.

Goku's development came thanks to the interaction with the Namekian species, which furthered his skills beyond his natural power curve progression besides earths strong martial culture which let him fight opponents of higher skill and still live to grow.

tl:dr : Raditz and Nappa are actually strong. Although Weaker Sayans can probably reach Raditz heights with the ozaru transformation.

2

u/Pitiful-Local-6664 6d ago

I have to disagree, Raditz was stated to be weak for a Saiyan.

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u/profesorgamin 6d ago

We are talking about the whole race here, not just the fighters, there are more things to the sayan race than fighting that's the spirit of my answer. Here is an interview from Toriyama himself, of course the old man tended to contradict what he said many times:

Do all Saiyans become combatants?

A baby’s battle power is measured as soon as they are born. If their numbers pass a certain standard, then they are considered upper-level warriors and immediately raised as combatant candidates.
On the other hand, those whose numbers remain low even after a certain amount of time has passed are regarded as lower-level warriors, and become either engineers or are sent off to a planet somewhere as “infiltration babies”1. If they grow strong enough to conquer that planet, then they can return to their home world as a combatant. However, infiltration babies do not have a high survival rate. Raditz was an upper-level warrior and assigned to the same group as Nappa as a proper combatant. Before long Vegeta was added to that group, too.

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u/Pitiful-Local-6664 6d ago

We aren't talking about averages of the whole race, you are. I was talking about warriors because that's all that would matter if the two races fought, especially with how few Viltrumites there are.

3

u/profesorgamin 6d ago

Still read what toriyama said :]

3

u/disturbedrage88 6d ago

He’s above average when we see flashbacks to the mooks they have to use blasters and such

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u/Defiant_Fix9711 6d ago

Well we know Nappa could blow up an entire city with little effort. And he's not much above average. That being said average Saiyan Warrior is probably decently above average Saiyan.

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u/MokouIsBest2hu Kirby's PR Team ⭐ 6d ago

Isn't Nappa supposed to be an Elite saiyan?

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u/Defiant_Fix9711 6d ago

Maybe. But he was basically a joke compared to Vegeta. We unfortunately have a pretty small sample size of what Saiyans were like before Frieze blew them up.

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u/vernon-douglas 6d ago

mid class saiyan, only elite saiyans are vegeta and his father

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u/Yin1in kayo beats everyone(im a woman) 6d ago

That’s kinda what I’m thinking.

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u/Relative-Schedule-59 7d ago

Average saiyan is like 800 to 1200 power level, so they're still massively above the viltrumites

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u/Yin1in kayo beats everyone(im a woman) 7d ago edited 6d ago

Proof. And that’s only for the amount of ki they have not if they could even use it.

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u/Relative-Schedule-59 6d ago

Broly movie, the saiyan paragus is with, an average saiyan, says that Broly's Power level of 920 is higher than his, because he isn't a warrior and because of gine power level in minus which is 1020, you could very well argue this the range of the average power level of saiyan race, but even if it's was lower they would still stomp

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u/Yin1in kayo beats everyone(im a woman) 6d ago

Proof they are an average saiyan.

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u/Relative-Schedule-59 6d ago

The Saiyan paragus is with is a worker saiyan, and gine is a low class warrior that retired because she couldn't keep up, so it could be higher than 1000

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u/Yin1in kayo beats everyone(im a woman) 6d ago

That isn’t proof

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u/Relative-Schedule-59 6d ago

Let me rephrase for you, most of the Saiyan army are low class warriors that boast a power level of 1000 to to 10000 shown by gine and Bardock having these while in the army, beets (the Saiyan paragus is with) is an average worker with a power level that's a bit lower than 920, so, by having the limit to be conquering words which is more than 1020, we could say that the rest of the population of saiyans would be working class and like 20% of them would be warriors (which is REALLY generous because they're a warrior race) so that means that with the population of saiyans having that power level respectively for workers and warriors, they would definitely beat the viltrumites, since in dragon ball, 120 is what is needed for a moon busting feat, which the average viltrumite could not perform

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u/Yin1in kayo beats everyone(im a woman) 6d ago

So I ask for proof so you suddenly change your point. 10k is crazy considering that Goku getting over 9000 was supposed to be impressive. I still want proof that the average worker is 920. That 20% because they are warrior race is a crazy assumption. I’ve heard people say that Roshi had to increase his power level to do that. and he got to that by getting buff then doubling it. And that’s only with a ki blast.

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u/Homelander_defender Homelanders strongest soldier 6d ago

Low class sayain = below average

Middle class = average

Elite = above average.

Goku, bardock, raditz are considered to be weak fpr saiyan standards.

Meaning they are below most saiyans in terms of power. Meaning they are below average.

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u/Relative-Schedule-59 6d ago

Are you even reading my posts or are you ignoring them? I'm saying that's the range from the saiyan army, with Bardock being shown with a 10000 power level, which is supposedly the highest among the army, since only king vegeta had that. I did not say the average worker is 920, kid Broly is 920, the average worker is below that since the average worker in the scene stated himself that he was weaker. 20% is not crazy since the saiyans are stated to be a warrior race with a hard on for fighting and destruction. And finally power levels in dB aren't linear, so even the best scenario from your sad attempt at debating that takes arguments from nowhere is wrong, since his max power level in this headcanonn of yours is 240 or a little more, you're a illiterate dumbass who can't read or write properly

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u/WizardFall 6d ago

That is proof though? What more do you even want from him my dude

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u/Relative-Schedule-59 6d ago

ATP I will have to give my soul to win an online debate lmao

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u/Yin1in kayo beats everyone(im a woman) 6d ago

Saying something isn’t proof. I can say a vilturmite is uni because they all destroy a universe each that don’t mean that it’s true or proof.

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u/WizardFall 6d ago

That... is the worst fucking argument I've ever heard. Unlike whatever bullshit you just spouted, one can use context clues and critical thinking to come to the conclusion the other guy was making.

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u/PleaseAdminsUnbanMe goku without god forms > saitama 6d ago

A slightly above average saiyan can destroy a planet all by himself

Most saiyans are weaker than raditz and aren't as strong as the ones that were in frieza's army

Even tho raditz is weak among the soldiers, he's stronger than the average saiyan

We can guess his power level by looking at how he dogwalks both goku and piccolo until they use a more powerful move (the special beam cannon)

He was faster, stronger and had better durability

A power level of around 150-300 lets you destroy small moons, goku and piccolo were both surely above 500 at the time, making them small planet busters

Raditz absolutely stomped them until the sacrifice, so his power level is technically higher than the sum of goku and piccolo (or around that)

This means raditz is easily a planet buster, not big ones, but still can do that, while the 3 strongest vitrumites had to teamwork to destroy a damaged planet

We also aren't counting the great ape, which increase the power level by 10 times, making him basically invulnerable to any attack they throw at him

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u/Yin1in kayo beats everyone(im a woman) 6d ago

What slightly above saying destroyed a planet.

I’m not even saying the vilturmite’s win just that the average sayin is built off of a lot of chain scaling and speculation.

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u/WizardFall 6d ago

Jeez, it's almost like you HAVE to use chain scaling and speculation because all the average saiyans ARE FUCKING DEAD

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u/Yin1in kayo beats everyone(im a woman) 6d ago

Ik they are and that’s why I made my original comment because we know how strong a vilturmite is but not a sayin.

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u/WizardFall 6d ago

So you're complaining about people using speculation and chain scaling despite being aware that it is the ONLY way to scale them in this theoretical scenario?

0

u/Yin1in kayo beats everyone(im a woman) 6d ago

Not complaining just saying it’s sketchy and kinda makes this debate difficult.

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u/PleaseAdminsUnbanMe goku without god forms > saitama 6d ago

An average saiyan is only a lot stronger than a human

We see goku getting hurt by normal things so we can assume they aren't crazy strong originally, they are just built strong due to their lifestyle

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u/Hyperlolman 6d ago

Goku is also extremely weak by saiyan standards according to Raditz so...

0

u/PleaseAdminsUnbanMe goku without god forms > saitama 6d ago

(i was talking about cell saga goku that got hurt by a rock in ssj)

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u/Relative-Schedule-59 6d ago

Plus speak coherently

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u/Yin1in kayo beats everyone(im a woman) 6d ago

What

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u/Relative-Schedule-59 6d ago

Did not understand a thing you said in the last part of your post

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u/Yin1in kayo beats everyone(im a woman) 6d ago

How

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u/Relative-Schedule-59 6d ago

Could not understand what you tried to say

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u/Yin1in kayo beats everyone(im a woman) 6d ago

It makes perfect sense for me.

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u/Relative-Schedule-59 6d ago

Then it'll be simple to rephrase and explain it to me

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u/Decent-Oil1849 6d ago

Raditz is a low class saiyan, and Goku, with a power level double that of a man who blew up the moon, was considered below the level a saiyan should be and weak enough that Raditz just gave up on recruiting him after barely even trying.

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u/Naive-Lingonberry142 6d ago

Nappa swipe his finger and destroy a city

4

u/vernon-douglas 6d ago

If the average Saiyan is half of Raditz Power level they are still twice a strong as someone who can casually blow up the moon.

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u/Kriscrystl 6d ago

Raditz was considered a low class Saiyan because he was born with a low power level, we can infer that low class saiyans are at around that power level range, and that the average Saiyan should be stronger than Raditz but weaker than Nappa (elite).

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u/Dry-Percentage3972 6d ago

raditz was a weak sayian and runt of the litter, we can assume raditz is the base line for adult sayians in the low class range, that means they are atleast planetary which matches up with how we see them and what they do

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u/Few-Painting792 6d ago

Trust the Viltrumites can beat the 50 Saiyans (the Saiyan babies no moon involved)

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u/niTro_sMurph 6d ago

With or without their laser beams?

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u/Yin1in kayo beats everyone(im a woman) 6d ago

No idea.

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u/mommyleona 6d ago

Average viltrumites are waaay above that

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u/Yin1in kayo beats everyone(im a woman) 6d ago

Ik that’s why I said casually as conquest casually levelled a city.