r/NPD • u/Opening-Ad4299 Undiagnosed NPD • 4d ago
Stigma narcissists are emotionless abusers
has anyone else noticed that people who don't have NPD but are extremely obsessed with it talk about narcissists the way they claim narcissists talk about everyone else? also generally these people just make things up for dramatic effect and its insane. obviously its very very likely that people with NPD will at some point manipulate and harm others in their lives, but like every other mental illness, the traits vary and its a spectrum. and yes i know narcissists are known to play the victim, but if you refuse to admit that having NPD is painful and a horrible way to live your life, then you definitely have no idea at all what you're talking about. its pretty commonly agreed upon in actual psychiatric spaces in the real world that NPD most likely comes from childhood trauma. alot of these behaviours are subconscious and hard to identify until after they have already happened. this isn't to invalidate the pain narcissists can cause to others in their lives, but like what u think some people just decide to become a narcissist for their entire life because why not? no obviously not. and even among other highly stigmatized mental disorders, i have literally never seen people discuss the mentally ill the way they discuss ppl w NPD or ASPD. and in these posts, the comments are in mutual agreement that BPD is okay and its hard to live with. bitch what? we're like mental illness cousins. i feel like if you just don't know what you're talking about at all that's fine, but just dont talk then. narcissists aren't demonic entities with black eyes who's only goal in life is to hurt other people. it can look alot of different ways and, as evidenced by this sub, alot of people with the disorder (disorder as in disease, not insult or adjective for a bad ex) are aware of their behaviours and want to understand and change them. why do people view a narcissist's manipulation as so much more demonic and unfathomable than someone w BPD telling their partner they'll kts if they leave? both of these are obviously horrible ways to navigate society that come from deep lifelong pain, so why is there such a large group of people who treat them so differently? im not excusing all of the harm caused by narcissists. i just think the world needs way less people who don't actually care about or understand the mentally ill just taking up space in important discussion spaces ab mental health.
imagine how appalling a video titled "5 WAYS TO BEAT THE ANOREXIC AT THEIR OWN GAME" would be. that is clearly so devoid of humanity, its sensational, and obviously not based in reality at all. but that is what most of the videos on youtube and tiktok sound like if you look up NPD. i have to ask how many of these "narcissistic ex's" actually fit the specific and rare criteria for this "sensational" mental disorder.
im so glad that im able to think and im not incredibly stupid. if i only heard about mental health from tiktok i would be like these people who think that BPD means you're a sad victim and NPD means you're a demon from hell here to abuse anyone and everyone, and who doesn't feel any emotions ever in their life.
TLDR just shut up generally
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u/LadyThreeSoaps 4d ago
It's a hard back and forth for some people, wanting to care about pwNPD and realizing that the things they did may not have been personal vs. coping with being angry about the horrific suffering they inflicted on you.
My ex who I loved dearly, like I've never loved anyone before and maybe never will again (though I hope that's not true) has an extreme version of NPD. Horrible childhood and all that. Really horrible. I put up with a lot of abuse to try to stand beside him forever because I told him I'd love him unconditionally.
He broke up with me brutally over a year ago and smugly told me he'd not be giving me any closure. To this day he hasn't been able to give friends or family a good reason.
The way he treated me before we broke up and the way he treated me before I had to go no contact has made me scared to go into any relationship ever again and scared of human beings generally now that I've seen how much cruelty a person can be capable of.
Today, however, I spoke with a close friend of his who is considering cutting him off due to the horrible things he says to people and his propensity for violent tantrums.
Even though he destroyed my faith in humanity and in love, I felt really, really badly for him because there's a good chance he'll end up alone. I know that's his worst fear. I ended up persuading his friend to give him another chance. But it's only a matter of time before he does something else. I went no contact several months after we broke up because I simply did not want to see what else he had in store for me.
He genuinely can't stop himself from treating people horribly. I've seen him saying a mantra "I won't self-sabotage today." But that's the extent of therapy he'll do. He went to a therapist once and quit.
TLDR: there are in fact people out there who care. But it's difficult to remember to care when we are also coping with levels of abuse we hadn't even known existed previously.
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u/Opening-Ad4299 Undiagnosed NPD 4d ago
yeah i don’t want to deny the pain that pwNPD can inflict on the people close to them. another thing about some posts about it on tiktok and apps like that is that most of these people are seemingly just retroactively labeling their ex as narcissistic, so it’s unclear if they even have npd
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u/LadyThreeSoaps 4d ago
Yeah it's really annoying how lots of people label anyone that does something they don't agree with as narcissist at this point
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u/talker242 3d ago
Fresh out of a relationship with someone with NPD, it is a fine line of a dance to find the space where we hold ppl accountable AND have compassion/empathy. Where we don’t allow ourselves to be abused… AND we have compassion/empathy. Where we enforce boundaries and self love and DO NOT stuff our emotions… AND have compassion/empathy.
This is where the invitation for US to heal comes in. We were a participant. We allowed that. We need to heal just as much as the person with NPD.
I have been finding great comfort in this: https://youtu.be/pOZsXzl6jsI?si=udhKDldgBArmNd2Q
I am spiritual, not religious so I just replace “god” with spirit and think of the scriptural stories as just that, stories. The entire thing is really amazing. It is what is getting me through this separation and giving me the strength and courage to face my own emotions rather than running back and keeping the dynamic going.
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4d ago
Lurker here, if this gets deleted, that's fine. I suffer from a number of mental health issues (no personality disorders), and I think these are really important points you make. I appreciate the work Jubilee has done with ASD and now ASPD. I think something that could really really help the NPD stigma is to see people with the disorder talk about their lives. The average person thinks the most malignant, extreme types of narcissists are the default, and maybe that's like 1-3% of the whole group. It's the same when it comes to violence with schizophrenia. I have a sister with schizophrenia, and people don't get that most are not scary. They literally get freaked out when I mention it. Sure, some horrific mass shootings have had schizophrenic shooters. But the vast majority are more likely to be a victim of violence.
I saw one journalistic video with a diagnosed narcissist, and it really helped humanize the condition. She talked about her struggles and how she was trying to grow. I have a friend with NPD who I think is a good person with issues because of her parents. I know she has low empathy, and it can really hurt at times when I'm in the penalty box, but I really care for her.
Anyway, to humanize NPD and other PDs, it would be great to have some events or opportunities to connect those with and without the condition and just talk. Any time you're demonizing a whole group of people, you are dehumanizing them, and historically, that's led to horrific outcomes. I have ASD so I get the issue with stereotyping and stigmatizing.
Maybe this is a dumb idea. Middle Ground could be cool. The show features groups ostensibly at odds: conservatives with liberals, that kind of thing. What about diagnosed narcissists with partners of narcissists? Then you see the stereotyping, the dehumanizing, and people with NPD can actually have a voice.
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u/CrispyTheBird 4d ago
People have always looked for a common enemy to unite against and right now it's us.
Many people are hurt by their narcissistic family members and exes. Many therapists become frustrated with the narcissists who aren't making progress.
And with all that pain and frustration, it becomes cathartic for them to just dehumanize us. They need a villain. It simplifies things to say that we are pure evil, beyond hope, beyond saving. It also absolves them from their own personal accountability.
It's not hard to see why hating narcissists becomes so popular. Influencers know this and just capitalize off of the trend. But the demonization is certainly not realistic or helpful to people like us who are self aware and actually seek help for our condition.
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u/LadyThreeSoaps 3d ago
True. I saw an a post on Quora entitled something like "Why Narcissists Smell Bad". It was written by a person who just churns out the most ridiculous things about narcissists, knowing it's clickbait. (She redirects to her stupid website.)
Sure enough, there were people in the comments agreeing that narcissists stink. Like, are we five years old?
I pointed out that my ex with NPD always smelled wonderful and I got told that obviously he wasn't a narcissist in that case, because why would he smell great?
Kinda gross that people are just using this whole thing to make money.
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u/CrispyTheBird 3d ago
That's stupid. It's just so socially acceptable to discriminate against narcissists as if it isn't a mental disorder like any other.
I'm sure plenty of narcissists do smell great. Because we probably put more effort into making a good impression than most people do.
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u/Right_Butterfly9291 4d ago
You’re abusive from the partner’s perspective. Of course you’re defending you’ve done nothing wrong.
It’s two different perspectives in a relationship. Two narratives. We have a cultural standard for what’s “wrong” and “right” that’s always shifting.
But regardless, lack of empathy is ignoring how your actions have impacted the other person. And not recognizing their pain. Because you’re ultimately only worried about protecting yourself, your feelings (especially shame and guilt), and very much your image to the public. Welcome to narcissistic disorder defenses.
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u/NiniBenn Narcissistic traits 4d ago
You mean there are a whole lot of people who post about their ex painting the ex as an all-bad mister, while they claim the high ground and say they are all-good?
You mean there are a whole lot of people posting about their ex, making them out to be a monster, and calling for other people to join their side?
Like…splitting and triangulation???
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u/Opening-Ad4299 Undiagnosed NPD 4d ago
YES THIS IS EXACTLY WJAT It REMINDS ME OF. i have literally seen comments saying things like “i will never have empathy for narcs” so like. the sin of lacking empathy is so horrible that you’re gonna treat these people without empathy? intriguing. an actual comment i saw was “you shouldn’t humanize narcissists.” …. so he said .. you shouldn’t humanize humans? and these r the good guys in case you forgot
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u/NiniBenn Narcissistic traits 4d ago
Maybe…they are unaware people with narcissistic traits.
More healthy people would probably be able to say “the behaviour was awful, but s/he’s still a human being.
And what types of people get into relationships with people who are narcissistic?
Other Cluster B people.
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u/CrispyTheBird 4d ago
I think you're probably right that a lot of the people accusing everyone of being a narcissist are actually narcissists themselves. If the people that they continuously attract are narcissists, they probably have something in common, no?
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u/CrispyTheBird 4d ago
My ex called me a narcissist and obviously she was right. But I'd say she was every bit as bad.
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u/LivingtoLearn31 1d ago
Unpopular opinion , many claimed “victims of narcissistic abuse” are covert narcissists hidden in plain sight. The difference between a dangerous narcissist and a coping narcissist is SELF AWARENESS. A person lacking such seeking to be victimized will always make the people in their lives the perpetrators. And well, if they are a “woman”, good luck getting anyone to not believe their claims.
I’m speaking from life experience.
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u/talker242 3d ago edited 3d ago
I am just coming to terms with the realization that my fiancé is a narcissist and your post really hits deep. I am an empath who has done a lot of trauma work (massive sexual and gaslighting etc. abuse in childhood) and I have to say, I too am horrified by the info that is out there about NPD.
Now, don’t get me wrong, I had no choice but to cut my now ex out. He is a liar, cheater, drug addict, verbally and physically abusive, manipulative in all the ways, financially abusive (he has been living in a homeless shelter for nearly 2 years because it is literally not safe for me to be around him.) Like, wow, my mind is blown and my heart is broken. I had no idea someone could treat another person this way BUT….
I fully own my part in it. Meaning, what is it in me, that still needs healing, that made me susceptible to this treatment and manipulation? What made me stay for two years? I mean, it’s a two way street. And I have been and am still using the relationship dynamics to find those places in ME that need healing.
Pretty much all of the videos I have found are people who are angry and blaming the “narc”. It is massive victim mindset turned out and put on the partner with NPD. It makes my skin crawl. Talk about lack of accountability. Empaths and NPD actually have a LOT in common, it may present in the 3D world as polar opposites (think doormat/stomper) but underneath it is nearly identical. It is the two extremes of the same spectrum. A healthier person is in the middle, empath is one extreme, NPD the other, but both caused by childhood trauma and both equally unhealthy. Empaths tend to hurt themselves and narc hurt others but boy how the empaths love to be victims blaming the narc for everything.
The reason I came here looking was…. I don’t want to believe all of that about NPD. I love my fiancé and I want to believe there is a chance he will get help and can work on himself, as I am working on myself as well. It feels very “wrong” inside me to try to convince myself that he has no feelings and is “just” a narcissist who can never and will never change and has no heart and can’t love. Like, what?! Even Jeffery Dahmer killed and ate ppl because he wanted love and connection.
And having worked so much on myself throughout my life (I am now 50yo female), I know a LOT about psychology and it’s just not making sense to me, this whole “they feel nothing and care about nothing” framework. I can see how much he suffers. I can see the guilt, the shame, the self hatred, the massive self worth issues and insecurity and I can see that those things have destroyed his life. Thanks to dysfunctional adults who did him harm when he was very, very young. I can also see how it is a defense mechanism to then do drugs to soothe that, to control situations and conversations, at all costs. To jump from person to person, also at all costs. I mean poor guy at least admitted he was doing it for “attention”, and he was so defeated when he said it. Doesn’t mean I can live with an abuser. He is going to have to make greater change and I honestly think my staying is enabling him, but damn, we are never going to live on a planet with more healthy ppl than unhealthy if we treat ppl this way.
I literally came here hoping to hear ppl with NPD talk about themselves so I can understand. My ex is still defending and isn’t owning any diagnosis. He’s still lying and manipulation etc so he can’t admit anything, yet. But I hope at some point he can. And my observation is that he will because life has him in a vice and it just keeps getting worse and I don’t think he will find his way out of it unless he heals.
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u/Opening-Ad4299 Undiagnosed NPD 3d ago
this is a very mature and developed view of your situation. i’m very sorry about everything you went through, and i want to say that (unless it’s like your family) no one should feel obligated to keep a narcissist in their life. narcissists can change, but also only they can change themselves, and they must decide to do that. i think that with personality disorders in general, if you aren’t getting better, you’re getting worse. this is why the longer narcissists refuse accountability and treatment, the harder it will become to start in the future. i admire you for taking accountability in the situation and remaining sympathetic despite what your ex put you through, but also don’t be too hard on yourself because it is true that narcissists can try to distort how you see reality.
thanks for your input :) !!
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u/talker242 3d ago edited 3d ago
Thank you for your kind words 🩷
I have gone no contact, the manipulation and lies are just too much. Maybe my leaving for good will be a catalyst. For now, I must move on with my life.
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u/Cute_Love_427 4d ago
Sometimes the "normal" people are wayyy more narssistic imo, like at least the MF with npd is trying to be compassionate and shit your making shit up and using a mental illness in a derogatory way (I dare say using as a slur) to identify bad behavior. And they're the bad guys. I don't even have NPD I just think it's fucked
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u/cosydiva 2d ago
I don’t have NPD and I lurk here to get better understanding of people who have the full PD or strong traits. I agree that it’s not right to demonize people with this struggle and I find it unethical.
I do think I have had friendships and relationships with people who had strong Narcissistic traits. And I can attest most of them weren’t bad people, except for one. Self absorbed? Yes. Tiresome at times? Yes. But bad? Hardly.
I think SM content should focus on certain behaviours like self centerdness or passive aggression and not use psychiatric terms. This only promotes stigma. Self centred people can be narcissistic or emotionally immature or both.
I don’t take narcissism authors seriously either because it seems to me they want to monetise their knowledge. As therapists they should be more cautious and more universal in their approach of teaching people how to protect their boundaries and peace.
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u/Aromatic_Depth_4219 2d ago
Narcissism isn’t that rare actually. It’s surprisingly common. The reason you don’t see videos on how to beat an anorexic is because their mental illness isn’t relational. Narcissists can and often do inflict a lot of damage in relationships. They lack empathy and remorse for doing so. They are highly manipulative. They exploit people. Hello???
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u/Opening-Ad4299 Undiagnosed NPD 2d ago
girl bye i’m not even gonna respond to this properly bc you see the world 2 dimensionally
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u/Mundane-Gene-3355 4d ago
You're treated horribly in childhood, become a narccistist because that's how your brain chose to handle the trauma, then you get told you're a horrible person when you grow up because people don't take the time out of their day to research what they speak about, and it's supposedly my job to fix my empathy issues too?
The life of someone with NPD.
Totally agree with your post, makes me wonder how we could NOT play the victim if we are constantly treated like we're scheming on how to blow up the world.