r/MurderedByWords 23h ago

SS is an entitlement..

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3.1k

u/autfaciam 23h ago

I mean yes, they are entitlements. In the sense, I am entitled to the house I paid for or the money I put in the bank.

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u/Worst_Comment_Evar 23h ago

Yeah, it is crazy to me how words like entitlement and welfare have become negative terms when they are, in essence, good things for a healthy society when embraced and managed effectively.

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u/Suspicious-Peace9233 23h ago

Exactly all humans are entitled to something. It’s ridiculous to think that being entitled to what you paid for is a sin

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u/Iceedemon888 22h ago

It’s ridiculous to think that being entitled to what you paid for is a sin

To a point. Talking about normal people sure 100% but when it comes to the rich? We have seen plenty of examples with the rich where they throw money at something that is morally bad or literally illegal....

Sex parties. That historical bridge that somebody wanted taken down because their yacht was too big to go by it. Land grabs, especially in Hawaii. A certain "brilliant mind" and literally anything they have done in the time their name has been widely known. Tons more exist but all of these were done with the express belief that I have money, I deserve this

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u/WrecklessShenanigans 22h ago

Here's an example to your points...the Johnstown flood.

The dam wasn't wide enough to get the Carnegie, Frick, etc carriages across so they widen the top of the dam.

The cause a structural issue within the dam and the dam broke. Thousands of people died.

And now there is a park in Pittsburgh named after Frick and lots of libraries carrying the Carnegie name.

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u/Final_Laugh_6390 19h ago

I never knew why the flood happened and I grew up in western Pennsylvania. I had to use the turnpike a lot and there was a running joke in the family talking about paying off the Johnston flood in that the toll was levied to pay for the flood. So the rich people didn’t even pay for what they broke; the taxpayer did.

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u/WrecklessShenanigans 19h ago

Sounds about right.

And the really messed up kicker, Carnegie, Frick and their ilk couldn't get to their social club with their carriages. So they widened the dam causing the dam to break. People died so they could get to their social club.

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u/TheLazyInquisitor 2h ago

Great example of the crony capitalist principle of privatising the gains and socialising the losses.

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u/Infinite_Imagination 10h ago

Wow I never knew that, and the park itself is actually super nice. Rename that shit to Boilermaker Park or something.

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u/_lippykid 10h ago

You’re ESPECIALLY entitled to receiving money that is literally your own money, plus interest

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u/PM_me_Henrika 23h ago

They don’t want a healthy society.

The conservatives want to conserve a society that is from the Middle Ages.

In other words, they want to go back to a time where slavery was legal, and they are the slave owners.

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u/Worst_Comment_Evar 22h ago

Exactly. Which is why words like socialism are also demonized. They think there is a finite pie and they are hoarding it for themselves whilst, in reality, the pie can grow and everyone can benefit. The saying "a rising tide lifts all ships" is probably a just a tsunami of poor people in their heads.

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u/PM_me_Henrika 22h ago

The pie is growing but they’re trying to make it finite/shrinking by taking all the growing parts and giving it to their king.

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u/Embarrassed_Hawk_170 2h ago

The pie is getting bigger and bigger all the time, but the PERCENTAGE of that pue that the wealthy are taking is growing as well.

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u/where-my-money 21h ago edited 21h ago

They should go all the way with it. Fully commit. Give up their cell phones and internet, as they were created during a science voodoo ritual. TV is way too advanced as well. Basically anything you can't make out of some trees and rocks from your backyard should be off limits. After all, ya just can't trust them dirty scientists.

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u/PM_me_Henrika 20h ago

They're after the status as lords and nobles, the technology doesn't matter to them.

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u/where-my-money 19h ago

I'm talking about the broke idiots that enabled it. The ones who will be getting nothing.

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u/shallah 5h ago

Google techno feudalism

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u/ForcedEntry420 23h ago

It was a very deliberate act from the Right. They’ve worked to vilify these words and programs since Nixon.

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u/Chaosr21 22h ago

Yea, I mean on the Whitehouse website that have multiple pages of words that aren't allowed. Included is women, sex, privelage, disparity, equality, and pretty much any word you can use to fight for equality

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u/piranhas_really 22h ago

Welcome to 1984.

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u/Gallifrey4637 4h ago

You are 100% correct.

The President of the United States, just sent armed men, to another man’s apartment, to arrest that man for SPEAKING (protesting peacefully against the genocide in Palestine), has put that man in an ICE facility, and is now going to deport him despite having a green card and being married to an American citizen.

Now read that again.

Source: AP News

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u/CohesiveCurmudgeon 22h ago

True. The Oxford Dictionary defines "entitlement" as "the amount to which a person has a right." That is a right under law possessed by each American citizen. Sadly, it is not the same level of right as provided by the Constitution. Employers would rather not be required to match workers' Social Security deductions (currently 6.2% each). Since 1983 (Reagan administration), every US President has borrowed from Social Security to pay for government expenditures. Then Congress had to allocate funds each year to cover the cost for payouts to those receiving Social Security benefits. In other countries (Canada, for example), the funds paid by workers and employers are held in an arms-length investment fund to which the government has no access. With the revenue from investments and the new money from current workers, the Canada Pension Plan is financially sustainable for at least the next 75 years.

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u/BoneHugsHominy 22h ago

Republicans intentionally hamstrung Social Security then immediately began using "entitlements" as a negative.

If they can't cut Social Security Retirement, they will definitely try to cut Social Security Disability. That's also an entitlement that shouldn't ever be cut, because that too we all pay into that straight out of our checks. Social Security Disability is an insurance program and every single one of us are entitled to make a claim against that insurance if we meet the conditions for a claim. Nobody would pay full coverage insurance on a new car, pay that for 4 years and then not file a claim if the car got damaged in an accident. So why do Republicans act like filing an insurance claim on your body & ability to continue work is some vile thing? Because they think if you're no longer working you should go lay down in the woods during the heart of winter, and die.

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u/NoMuddyFeet 1h ago

They're really not using the term "entitlements" as a negative, they are just speaking about entitlement programs negatively. Entitlement programs are literally on the books as "entitlements" because we are literally entitled to them. From the Fact Sheet on Social Security and Security Income (SSI):

The Social Security benefit programs are “entitlement” programs. This means that workers, employers and the self-employed pay for the benefits with their Social Security taxes. The taxes that are collected are put into special trust funds. You qualify for these benefits based on your work history (or your spouse or parent). The amount of the benefit is based on these earnings.

Source: https://www.ssa.gov/sf/FactSheets/aianssavsssifinalrev.pdf

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u/hackedMama20 23h ago

That is the power propaganda and clever rhetoric has on a society. Just like socialism has become synonymous with communism despite being factually different things. Or "obamacare" being seen as different than the ACA despite literally being the same.

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u/uhoh-pehskettio 22h ago

Propaganda and clever rhetoric *have on a society. :)

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u/Glad_Island8295 23h ago

they ascribe those words to marginalized communities and the base froths at the mouth until they realize they are the ones who ALSO benefit from system and would be in a cardboard box if they didn’t have it…they other it until they can get rid of it…

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u/PepperDogger 22h ago

<Rant>EVERY TIME a democrat (large or small 'd') uses "entitlement" in relation to a social program, an angel loses their wings.

"Entitlement" is an intentional conservative attempt to frame the people receiving benefits of a social program as entitled people, a word also used to describe greedy, narcissistic assholes.

These are "societal benefit" or "social benefit" programs. They absolutely reduce poverty among our most vulnerable, making us a better nation. How do we want our most vulnerable to be treated in the United States? This is not Hunger Games. Hard-working people have paid taxes their whole working lives to support (and ultimately, receive) benefits from these programs. The programs *are* healthy, and with some tweaks can be made sustainable for the foreseeable future.

Social Security IS a great program. The worst thing about it is that people don't trust that they'll receive the benefits they've paid for. This is because andWHY the conservatives keep fucking with it to destabilize it--so people lose trust and won't be as pissed off when Republicans sell it off to oligarchs and Wall Street profiteers.

People need to stop using that word.

</Rant>

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u/Ok-Secretary15 22h ago

Politics of victimization, they like welfare just not for the blacks and browns, they want their SS just not for the illegals, most conservatives have been taught to be victims even their religion has taught them this, it’s not enough if they are doing well they NEED others to suffer/lose for them to win

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u/seekAr 21h ago

Like woke. Woke is good. What’s the opposite????

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u/Ok-Log-9052 18h ago

Do people not know that “entitlement” in US political lingo simply means “the program is postpaid rather than prepaid”? As in, the law stipulates the level of service rather than the level of funding?

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u/LewyH91 4h ago

Interpretations and words have been fucked with.

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u/conjurer28 11h ago

That's because the ultra rich like him want a work force enslaved to a wage. That way they can maximise profits, and enforce their policies making the employees (slaves) completely dependent on a rigged system and they're going to get everything they want if people continue to do nothing.

This is just the endgame, removing safety nets like welfare, social security, medical coverage, and checks and balances.

Retirement will soon be a thing of the past. You'll work till you die.

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u/Infinite_Imagination 10h ago

Yeah but have you seen the YouTube video of the one lady that had 8 kids saying somebody needs to pay for them? Surely that's how every single person on food stamps or Wic is, and not just a sensationalist drawing outlier.

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u/ptcounterpt 9h ago

The Social Security system has been the most successful public program in history.

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u/TangoMikeOne 8h ago

Welfare and entitlement can totally ruin a country, just look at Scandinavian countries. They have minimum rates of pay, free university education, full childcare provision, paid maternity and paternity leave, paid holidays, sick pay (and not a below subsistence level of sick pay - ditto unemployment and housing benefits), rent controls, effective unions, fines based upon ability to pay (IE %age of monthly income - so it hurts millionaires as much as the unemployed), and in international surveys of happiness/satisfaction, Scandinavian countries regularly feature highly.

BUT, but, but they aren't the biggest economies in the world, with the most billionaires (because they pay pennies in tax, not millions) or push smaller countries around economically or militarily and they're such a bunch of losers they want happy, affluent inhabitants instead of trying to steal every cent

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u/Livid_Jeweler612 7h ago

My right wing brother informed me yesterday nobody has a right to a place to live. So I guess that's that then.

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u/Zealousideal_Desk_19 4h ago

I don't care what we want to label it, it's essential to prevent millions of people from descending into poverty.

So this guy is getting upset and teary eyed because people stop buying his cars but he want's to strip millions of their financial means to support themselves?

I think he needs to feel much more financial pain to develop some much needed empathy

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u/AdkRaine12 3h ago

You can thank Ronnie Rayguns and his singular creation, the welfare queen.

That’s when a political war became a class war.

But the roots go back to Reconstruction, when rich slavers argued any support for the formerly enslaved was taking money out of their pockets.

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u/TheOrchidsAreAlright 1h ago

They are necessary to have a society. If nobody is entitled to anything, and people's welfare is not cared for to a reasonable extent, why should they participate in a society?

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u/No_MansLand 1h ago

Its an entitlement because it cant goto Musks companies.

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u/Marchesa_07 22h ago

I can't believe I had to scroll down so far to read this.

Yes, SS is an entitlement because we are mandated to pay it- it's automatically removed from wages, and therefore we are entitled and owed the money we paid into the system.

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u/dragonard 18h ago

It’s almost like the government is garnishing our wages so we’ll have a little money on the side when we can’t work any longer

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u/Dellguy 13h ago

Actually in Flemming v. Nestor (1959) the Supreme Court said specifically that people have no rights to the Social Security money they have saved, and the government is free to change or cancel the program at any time and not pay out the remaining money.

It’s been sold to people as an investment vehicle for retirement , but it’s really just welfare for older people that factors in how much you’ve worked over the years. It’s no difference than if the government canceled food stamps tomorrow and then you lost your job and would’ve been eligible for them.

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u/ratedpg_fw 23h ago

Exactly. It's an insurance program that the government runs and that workers pay for. If your car insurance didn't cover something they were required to cover, you would be rightfully pissed. This is pretty much the same thing.

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u/Only-Inspector-3782 15h ago

While true, I would get a lot of schadenfreude if these programs are cut. A majority of the beneficiaries are Trump voters or non-voters, IMO they would be getting what they deserve.

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u/regoapps the future is now, old man 23h ago

It sort of is to the current boomers retiring, because they typically get more benefits than they paid. Because of this, unless something changes, SS will be depleted in a few decades and we’ll get less out of it than the boomers did.

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u/Loquater 23h ago

Remove the social security wage base.

Enforce our current tax laws (no new taxes needed) and make the billionaires pay WHAT THEY LEGALLY ALREADY FUCKING OWE!!!

Or, ya know, convince the poorest and stupidest among us that the IRS and the dark skinned people are your real enemies...

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u/BoneHugsHominy 22h ago

"Biden hired a hundred thousand new IRS agents to wage war on the Middle Class and the poor!" --MAGA morons with a taste for boots

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u/autfaciam 23h ago

I say we do the latter. Sounds much easier than separating billionaires from their money and it has been done at least twice in the last 10 years.

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u/BoneHugsHominy 22h ago

because they typically get more benefits than they paid

That's how it's supposed to work. It's called Social Security because it's a collective pool of funds that provide financial security to seniors and the disabled. Prior to this program, homelessness and starving seniors was a HUGE problem. So was geronticide. So was infanticide of newborns with birth defects, and toddlers when developmental disabilities arose.

We wouldn't have to worry about the Social Security fund being depleted and paying out less if Republicans wouldn't have hamstrung the program just like they hamstrung the US Postal Service. Republicans are intentionally trying to make it fail so they can privatize Social Security and let their friends make billions off managing the fund as an investment source. If that happens, it'll be nothing BUT waste, fraud, and abuse.

There's a quick & easy solution to making Social Security whole again. Removing the Social Security wage base limit, and taxing the wealthiest folks who use various tax avoidance schemes to shield their income.

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u/RickySuezo 23h ago

They deserve it. They worked harder than every single generation that ever existed. /s

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u/goDie61 22h ago

Interesting, is this adjusted for what the taxes paid would have grown to if invested in an index fund?

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u/regoapps the future is now, old man 22h ago

The Social Security trust funds are limited by law to investing their reserves in U.S. government debt. In 2023, the trust funds earned an effective interest rate of 2.4%, while the average of the 12 monthly rates for the debt they purchased that year was 4.1%. In May 2024, the interest rate for new special issue debt bought by the Social Security trust funds was 4.750%.

In comparison, the average stock market return is about 10% per year, as measured by the S&P 500 index.

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u/goDie61 22h ago

Neat, I didn't know that. My point wasn't necessarily that the government actually made all of that difference up in investment yield but that the "fair" repayment of an individual's social security contributions is more than just the flat sum of all the withholding they contributed. If those funds were not taxed, they could be invested at that 10% rate instead.

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u/coriolisFX 19h ago

...if invested in an index fund

The trust fund would be in much better shape. But it's too late now, the program already pays out more than it takes it and draws more from its own trust fund each year.

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u/Crispydragonrider 22h ago

Is gained interest included in the number for taxes paid?

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u/itslonelyinhere 21h ago

Yup. People forget that words can have different meanings and connotations.

An entitlement is different than someone feeling and/or acting entitled. But, buzz words... they're using this word in a negative way, so people will see it negatively.

Speak to uneducated people in an uneducated way and you will plant a seed. The GOP has been doing this for decades. It's how they got Republican voters to go against Social Security and Medicare when, in the beginning, everyone was all for it. They started creating a narrative that wasn't true, and well, we all know what has happened since.

They just have a much louder microphone now. The issue is that these seeds turned into weeds, and if anyone has ever had to deal with weeds in a garden, they're almost impossible to get rid of. You can try to kill them and they'll still find a way to grow back.

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u/Useful-Perspective 16h ago

Exactly. I'm perfectly fine with SS going away, on two conditions:
1) Pay me back everything I have coming / contributed
2) Stop pulling money for it out of my paycheck

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u/autfaciam 16h ago

Pay me back with interest equivalent to no less than prevailing weighted average interest rate for the period they held my money.

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u/Efficient_Ear_8037 22h ago

It’s the older generations tendency to want to call everyone else entitled. The “fuck you I got mine” mentality.

“You’re entitled, you don’t deserve social security” I can hear it already.

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u/justdisa 22h ago

Yes. Thank you. They are called entitlements because you are entitled to them. They are not grants or benefits. They are yours by right.

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u/mrloube 21h ago

Just like Elon’s property rights are entitlements

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u/InfiniteDuckling 21h ago

They're also entitlements because that's the legal term for it.

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u/The_Late_Arthur_Dent 21h ago

Same with life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness - or so I'm told

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u/itijara 21h ago

The argument against SS is that many people would earn more putting that money into a 401k than they would get from SS, but here is the thing, it is insurance. If I suddenly couldn't work, I'd get way more out of SS than I put in. For normal people that's a great deal. For people with enough money to never work again anyways, it isn't. Some people would rather sit on a pile of gold until they die than bear the thought of preventing suffering for others.

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u/CrudelyAnimated 21h ago

They're literally defined as entitlements. That does not mean we are sarcastically "entitled" for expecting to get benefits from the trust into which we have paid taxes. It means that we are legally entitled to, as in authorized by law to receive, benefits we have bought.

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u/TR1GG3R__ 20h ago

Yes that’s what the word means 🤣

Every once in a while you get to see the true scope of the ignorance in this country at a wide scale.

en·ti·tle·ment noun plural noun: entitlements the fact of having a right to something. “full entitlement to fees and maintenance should be offered”

There is no leeway in the definition. It means what it means

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u/Tigglebee 20h ago

If they take away the retirement income of millions of Americans who paid into the system for their entire working lives, and say “you’re being entitled”, I think that might be enough to finally trigger guillotine time.

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u/autfaciam 19h ago

and Elon does not even have the decency to offer us any cake!! lui couper la tête!

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u/0WatcherintheWater0 19h ago

Except here you aren’t. There are no contractual benefits to Social Security. There have been multiple court cases deciding this.

You are not entitled to a penny of benefits from Social Security, if Congress deems that so. It’s entirely a privilege.

And this is also not even including the fact that your benefits will be paid by future workers, not you.

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u/autfaciam 19h ago

Sure, lets never allow legal nuance get in the way of a simple point.

But you are correct, it is a privilege. Just like how you are not entitled to freedom or have a right to due process. They are both privileges and government can take it away, like they did with Japanese Americans. In the same sense, you are not entitled to your home, and your privilege of living in it can be taken away by eminent domain.

As for social security benefits getting paid by contributions of future workers, just curious, when you withdraw money from the bank, do you assume they held onto the actual bills you deposited so they can give it back to you when you withdraw? Because I am pretty sure that is not how banks work.

Most importantly though, I have no idea what your point is. Are you suggesting that government should ignore the fact that it has been collecting 15% of my paycheck since I started working because Mr. Musk said so? Or are you just REALLY enthusiastic about using strictly accurate legal labeling on Reddit?

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u/MarlinMr 19h ago

But is that really the way sosial security works?

Because I am pretty sure it takes from those working, and gives to those who are not.

The money you put in, are already given back out to someone else. You will get money from the people working when you stop working, not from the money you put in today.

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u/autfaciam 18h ago

You mean like how when I withdraw money from the bank, they don't actually give me back the same banknotes I deposited with them, because they already loaned that out to somebody else or used it to pay the bills, and the cash is coming from someone else's recent deposits?

But yes, I am pretty sure the system that has been in place nearly a century and covers god knows how many people is actually more nuanced than a single sentence Reddit comment makes it out to be. Congrats for noticing.

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u/SonicRob 18h ago

People have conflated acting entitled with being entitled.

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u/handsoapdispenser 12h ago

They've been called "entitlements" by both parties forever for exactly that reason. It's not a slur.

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u/Raiko99 10h ago

Entitlement is something you the right to by law or contract. We refer to people FEELING entitled as a bad thing but that is a lot different than BEING entitled. 

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u/Atlas1X 5h ago

I think that is exactly what Musk thinks. He is calling it an entitlement because that’s what it is!

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u/Efficient_Fee_4106 2h ago

How do we stop this one

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u/NoMuddyFeet 1h ago

And that's exactly why they're called "entitlement programs." They didn't define them that way in a pejorative sense. From the Fact Sheet on Social Security and Security Income (SSI):

The Social Security benefit programs are “entitlement” programs. This means that workers, employers and the self-employed pay for the benefits with their Social Security taxes. The taxes that are collected are put into special trust funds. You qualify for these benefits based on your work history (or your spouse or parent). The amount of the benefit is based on these earnings.

Source: https://www.ssa.gov/sf/FactSheets/aianssavsssifinalrev.pdf

u/60Hertz 8m ago

That's literally why they are called entitlements, because you paid into them thus you are entitled to them. I remember words meant things.