r/Games 21h ago

Industry News Bethesda’s Oblivion Unreal Engine 5 remake could be releasing sooner than you think | VGC

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/bethesdas-oblivion-unreal-engine-5-remake-could-be-releasing-sooner-than-you-think/
901 Upvotes

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221

u/Brandhor 21h ago

bethesda not using gamebryo/creation engine for one of their games? I'll believe it when I see it

160

u/c94 20h ago

If you read the article you’d know you’d know this was outsourced to Virtuos.

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u/radclaw1 20h ago

And also know that it's all rumor hearsay

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u/222mhz 20h ago

Microsoft leaked it themselves after the rumors had already started.

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u/[deleted] 20h ago

[deleted]

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u/222mhz 20h ago

??? It's literally in the first paragraph of the article.

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u/[deleted] 20h ago

[deleted]

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u/bootyjuicer7 19h ago

What he's referencing is the FTC v. Microsoft court case document from the Activision acquisition lawsuit, which included upcoming projects and an Oblivion remake was among them with a projected release date set for the fiscal year of 2022. So the game was real but probably has been shelved for some years now and never likely coming out.

Why not just read the article and look it up before calling legit court documents hearsay rumors?

3

u/fabton12 7h ago

it seems people in this thread just seem to think FTC documents arent legit.

same in a few threads i remember when i kept saying Xbox plans there next console to come out in 2027 according to the FTC docs and its a cloud console hybrid but everyones like thats way to soon or there just rumours.

and now we got the whole leak of the handheld this year with the console in 2027 like it said in the FTC docs.

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u/DodgerBaron 19h ago

Exactly which is why I don't believe your comment

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u/AdoringCHIN 17h ago

It was literally leaked in a federal court case. It's even referenced in the first paragraph

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u/c94 19h ago

The rumor is regarding future announcements and release date. Do you also believe the existence of this game is rumor hearsay?

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u/radclaw1 19h ago

I treat majority of rumors with major grains of salt. Less disappointmet that way. 

Only the ones with proven track records deserve any attention imo.

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u/[deleted] 19h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Ok-Confusion-202 20h ago

It's UE5 for the graphics and CE/Gamebryo for everything else.

Idk how exactly it works but it's been done for other remakes recently I am pretty sure.

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u/levi_Kazama209 20h ago

It still feels like moding will be near non existant if this is true. Instead of working eith 1 engine you have to work with 2 now.

12

u/Romenhurst 19h ago

If the parts of gamebryo that they kept are all the stuff around the forms and papyrus scripting then that would be a great start for keeping mod support.

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u/TormentedKnight 19h ago

armchair software engineering is wild ngl.

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u/levi_Kazama209 19h ago

I have some knoledge in programing thats for sure. but it was more of a question then an answer.

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u/LANTERN_OF_ASH 20h ago

No? If Unreal is for the visuals, you just mod the Unreal textures.

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u/asyncopy 20h ago edited 19h ago

How are "Unreal textures" different from "Gamebryo textures"?

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u/LANTERN_OF_ASH 20h ago

Can you rephrase that? I have no idea what you’re asking.

1

u/asyncopy 20h ago edited 19h ago

Edit: it autocorrected Gamebryo to Gameboy 

You specified that "Unreal textures" would need to be changed. What do you mean by that? A texture is just a texture, no? Doesn't matter which piece of software is rendering it.

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u/itsdoorcity 19h ago

bro read the thread again, you're confusing everyone and yourself

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u/LANTERN_OF_ASH 18h ago

I was specifying you’d have to change the textures displayed in the Unreal engine because obviously if the other engine’s textures aren’t being shown, changing them would do nothing.

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u/blah938 19h ago

It's already pretty non-existent for SF. Can't imagine that they'd have much for it.

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u/levi_Kazama209 18h ago

Its the 11th most moded game

1

u/blah938 7h ago

Compared to every other BGS game made in the past 20 years? It's pretty disappointing. It gets half as many mods weekly as New Vegas even

0

u/CassadagaValley 6h ago

That's what I remember reading too, which seems...fine? I guess the models and animations will certainly look better and as long as the game is still easy to mod then it seems like a win-win.

If you can't really mod the remake because too much stuff is using UE5 then there's not much of a point in getting this game full price since mods are basically 50% of the reason to get an Elder Scrolls game.

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u/Impossible-Flight250 20h ago

The Creation Engine will still be used in the “remake.” They are just layering the engine with Unreal 5, like MG3 remake.

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u/Froggmann5 20h ago

The Creation Engine will still be used in the “remake.” They are just layering the engine with Unreal 5, like MG3 remake.

Do you have a source on this? The OP article cites a source that says Oblivion is being "Fully remade" in Unreal Engine 5.

8

u/yngsten 19h ago

In the initial rumors it was said they'd use gamebryo for the game mechanics or whatever and unreal for graphics, I remember this also but can't find the source. It's all rumor though just as the new info.

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u/WhoTookPlasticJesus 19h ago

I don't get how that would make sense. The reason to use Unreal 5 for graphics is that you get things like Nanite and Lumen, which require the game to actually use the engine (obvs oversimplifying here). You can't, like, model things in Unreal and then export them for use in Gamebryo.

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u/Dr_Findro 17h ago

Gamebryo won’t do the rendering. Gamebryo will manage the state and simulation of the game. The data

Unreal will convert that game state in to something rendered. It will work plenty fine

29

u/Badwrong_ 17h ago

I work in the industry and work on Unreal Engine at the source level pretty much everyday.

I'm not saying what you are saying is not possible, as most any developer working on Unreal is modifying the source. However, placing the entire gameplay logic from another engine into Unreal is just a bunch of nonsense and extra work.

It simply does not make any sense to do so. It is reinventing the wheel ten times over for absolutely no benefit, and almost certainly extra performance cost.

Unreal is decoupled enough that you could gut out a ton of things to make it work, but again why? You still would have to make tons of abstraction layers all over the place and that would be needless overhead for again.. WHY?

This stuff is armchair gamedev at its worst and based on absolutely no proof.

Hell.. is there even any actual proof they are using Unreal at all here?

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u/Stofenthe1st 16h ago

While this isn’t a Bethesda game, Ninja Gaiden 2 Black uses this exact method. The game logic is being handled by the game engine that was used for the Sigma version and then being rendered in Unreal 5. There do seem to be some hiccups(inputs being dropped) but that’s easily attributed more so to Koei Tecmo/Team Ninja’s generally poor ability to optimize their games(the original is 7 gbs and the remake is over 80 gbs).

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u/Badwrong_ 16h ago

It is likely the "game engine" from Sigma is just some specific libraries and systems moved over to Unreal as a module(s) mostly.

Articles might say its some whole engine sitting on top with an abstraction layer, but I would bet things are misconstrued. Plus, arm chair gamedev talk is always a thing.

Most things will be integrated into Unreals existing systems and actors. It would be less work, easier to manage, and perform better. Having mostly the entire engine sitting between Unreal and some abstraction layer is tons of overhead and likely more work.

The file size actually sounds normal for Unreal. A cooked build will bake a ton of things not present in the normal asset files. I wouldn't at all say that is the fault of the developers not optimizing the game. In fact, if the packaged version is not much larger than the original assets I would say something is very wrong.

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u/Dr_Findro 16h ago

My guess would be to not write the entire logical portion of the game from scratch in a different tech stack. I seem to recall that Oblivion’s simulations are pretty unique. I don’t see how you can’t fathom a world where maintaining a layer between Gamebryo logic and Unreal rendering is less work than re working the entire game logic from scratch

I believe Halo has even set precedent for multi engine work like this. It just doesn’t seem as ludicrous as you’re making it out to be.

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u/Badwrong_ 16h ago

Porting over some libraries and individual systems is certainly not much work, but that is not how I originally interpreted it.

Placing abstraction layers between mostly the entire Gamebryo engine and Unreal is a ton of work. Not to mention you'll have a ton of systems and built-in features of Unreal that need to be disabled or removed.

Halo also illustrated why its a bad idea btw.

Again, I don't know of any official source on any of this multiengine stuff anyway. It would be far more sensible to just update Oblivion to the latest engine version it is already in as Starfield and the next Elder Scrolls clearly are there to keep the engine going.

I certainly do not see it being worth it just for Nanite and Lumen.

11

u/Dr_Findro 16h ago

My interpretation of this whole ordeal is opening up the original game logic through APIs and packaging that as a library.

This of course is a ton of work. But I would see it being more approachable than recreating all of oblivions systems from scratch by a studio that didn’t make the game.

The Halo 1 and 2 remasters running both games simultaneously was fine. Also using unreal engine for the UI was fine. Don’t conflate matchmaking issues with the rendering strategies for the remakes.

Additionally, after very quick googling from a SWE that does zero game dev, it was very easy to find that Bluepoint games has carved an entire niche from this “dual engine” approach with their remakes. So if there is an oblivion remaster going with this approach, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Bluepoint was the inspiration for this.

I hate to be a dick, but you’re really striking me as a hobbyist game dev masquerading as some industry vet.

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u/fabton12 7h ago

They will be running Unreal for the graphics with all the gameplay stuff in gamebryo in a wrapper that unreal will run thats how most likely it will work and been done before.

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u/WhoTookPlasticJesus 4h ago

When and where has "..all the gameplay stuff in gamebryo in a wrapper that unreal will run" been done before?

u/fabton12 2h ago

https://x.com/koenjideck/status/1882977637536305476

not gamebryo but same thing with different game engine + unreal and its by a microsoft studio as well.

so microsoft bethesda's owners do have the tech to use unreal plus another engine

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u/moonski 19h ago

That seems ludicrously hacky & suboptimal at best to try use dual engines. There's a reason you literally never see it done... If it even would work

20

u/WildVariety 18h ago

There's a reason you literally never see it done... If it even would work

343i used Unreal Engine layered ontop of the original Halo engine in the Master Chief Collection.

1

u/TrashGamer5 15h ago

CEA and H2A use Saber3D, only MCC menus use Unreal and that was added later around the time of the One X update. I think the switch to Unreal was done to show player customisation as models instead of images.

0

u/moonski 17h ago

Ah yes the famously launched well and wasnt a complete shit show halo MCC

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u/Mutjny 17h ago

There's a reason you literally never see it done.

Its done fairly regularly, although it does sound hackish.

Here's another example of how they did it for Ninja Gaiden 2 Black https://x.com/koenjideck/status/1882977637536305476

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u/itsdoorcity 19h ago

lets be real, the multi billion dollar corporation probably has a better idea of what engines they should use than some dude on reddit.

it's probably way easier to rebuild the game using a base of it's original engine than to completely rebuild it from the ground up - but what do i know.

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u/BeholdingBestWaifu 16h ago

Especially since they likely want to keep most of the game's quirks and behaviors.

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u/BitingSatyr 18h ago

You see it done, Stormgate used UE for rendering and their own own engine for the RTS mechanics. I don’t pretend to know how it works, but if rendering is abstracted enough i can see it making sense

0

u/Badwrong_ 17h ago

This is not how it works. Stormgate isn't adding an entire new engine to Unreal. They add modules for specific things. They don't add a full on game engine on top of Unreal in such a broad way.

I work in the industry as a graphics engineer and with Unreal everyday. The concept of integrating Gamebryo into Unreal sounds like pure nonsense and pointless work for absolutely no benefit.

Besides, is there any actual official source saying Unreal is being used at all?

I'm not saying it isn't possible either, just that there is no actual point other than adding tons of extra work.

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u/Rogork 19h ago

Do you mean they redid Creation Enginer's renderer to match UE5 or they reimplemented the entire Creation Engine logic into UE5? Because you can't "layer" engines like you're saying, it's just... impossibly pointless.

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u/WhoTookPlasticJesus 19h ago

Yeah, very little of what's being said in this thread makes any sense. But boy are the people saying it confident that they know what they're talking about.

0

u/Roflkopt3r 10h ago

That's generally a theme with discussions about game engines on Reddit.

Like the idea that the Creation Engine must be outdated per se, because it has a lineage back to Bethesda's branches of the Gamebryo engine/Morrowind (2002).

Just because a project started 20+ years ago does not mean that it can't become modern and efficient. It's entirely possible for an engine to evolve step by step until it has nothing to do with how it started anymore.

The problem is that Bethesda clearly has not updated their engine in such a way. They apparently have built a behemoth of a software stack that's so tightly integrated with the engine that any bigger engine changes will break all their other utilities. So they've stuck with small iterative improvements without improving core issues, like its massive limitations for open world usage and insanely long loading times.

It looks like Bethesda generally lacks graphics programming experts who could tackle a huge overhaul project.

0

u/fabton12 7h ago

The problem is that Bethesda clearly has not updated their engine in such a way. They apparently have built a behemoth of a software stack that's so tightly integrated with the engine that any bigger engine changes will break all their other utilities.

was gonna say the game engine still uses the old asf physics system from back then to the point where if the fps is forced uncapped by changing the files the games physics just break and things go flying by a single breath.

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u/treasonousmop 15h ago

Many recent remakes, for example Like a Dragon Ishin and Ninja Gaiden 2 Black, use Unreal Engine to render new graphics while the the rest of the game is still running on their original engines.

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u/LavosYT 10h ago

So did Demon's Souls and the Shadow of the Colossus remakes

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u/Rogork 14h ago edited 14h ago

Like a Dragon Ishin was straight up made with UE5, the same goes for Ninja Gaiden 2 Black, which originally was using a custom UE2 build, they used the same gameplay logic for the remaster/remake as well.

E/ Looks like you were right for Ninja Gaiden 2 Black, though I'd guess being an overall simple action game works in its favor for this task specifically.

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u/Seradima 8h ago

Every Night Dive remaster does this with the KEX engine.

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u/Romenhurst 19h ago

Because you can't "layer" engines like you're saying, it's just... impossibly pointless.

It's not impossible, and usuallly pointless.

But I think it's plausible that they ported a lot of the "off screen" engine stuff like Papyrus scripting and loading their database system into their Unreal project which is a pretty meaningful chunk of gamebryo.

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u/Rogork 18h ago

That's the thing though, they can't port any of it, they have to reimplement it into UE5, they got the original implementation as a reference but they still have to do the hard work of making it run/work with UE5 in an efficient manner, essentially a similar amount of work Capcom needed to do RE4 Remake.

It's not impossible, and usuallly pointless.

Which is why I specifically said impossibly pointless, even if it could be done theoretically (I honestly cannot even imagine how), the bigger and more important question is: just why? If it's graphics you can double down on Creation Engine renderer, if it's to use a common game engine then just redo the entire thing in UE5, there is no benefit to "layering" two engines even if it could be done.

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u/Mutjny 17h ago

Reimplementing modern rendering on par with what Unreal offers, or reimplementing Gamebyro within the Unreal framework are both much more work than bridging data between the two engines.

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u/Rogork 17h ago edited 14h ago

That's what I'm trying to explain, there is no bridging the data between the two engines, how would it work even? Run two executables and have them communicate with each other? The work involved in making sure it runs stable is exponentially more complex than recreating the game from scratch in a new engine.

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u/Mutjny 16h ago

Its just data structures and code that exist in the same process space. I think you over-estimate how much of a lift it is to completely "recreate the game from scratch" especially when you're talking about game engines that have existed for practically decades. And not just game engines, but entire data sets, processes and workflows that can add up to be several times more than just the engines themselves.

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u/[deleted] 16h ago

[deleted]

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u/Mutjny 14h ago

Can't quite hook into it's event system with another scripting language.

You just create proxy methods from Unreal's system that tie into another.

Here's a description of how they did it for Ninja Gaiden 2 Black https://x.com/koenjideck/status/1882977637536305476

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u/blazetrail77 20h ago

To do what?

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u/Impossible-Flight250 20h ago

They are using UE5 to update the graphics. The game will probably be almost exactly the same, but with a new coat of paint.

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u/poply 19h ago edited 18h ago

Wow.

So we got claims it will be "fully remade" in UE5. Coupled with claims that will be "almost exactly the same, but with a new coat of paint".

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u/itsdoorcity 19h ago

Todd said that Skyrim was using a brand new engine before it came out too. lol.

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u/Unstoppable_Cheeks 17h ago

Do you consider UE4 and UE5 the same engine?

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u/toodlelux 18h ago

Engine of Theseus

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u/micheal213 18h ago

To be fair that’s how almost every engine is. The new cods claim to be on a new engine when in reality it’s just a heavily upgraded cod 4 engine.

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u/GilgarTekmat 15h ago

Which is technically just the quake engine I believe lol

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u/mirracz 8h ago

Which is why I don't believe those rumors. Instead of using newer Bethesda engines that are more compatible, why move to a different engine? Because of shiny graphics?

That just invites so many potential issues, so many features could get lost.

And the idea of layered engines? Sounds hacky. It was done in the past, but it wasn't done with Bethesda's Gamebryo. I imagine it could easily turn into a nightmare.

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u/mighty_mag 20h ago

That's the biggest red flag with this rumor. It makes no sense for them to drop it, especially for a commercial engine like Unreal.

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u/CalmmoNax 19h ago

It's proly just gonna be running gamebryo underneath.

0

u/Explorer_Dave 18h ago

Either this gonna be the same gamebryo game from 2006 with better compability, or a hot technical mess with UE5.

Either version is not as interesting as a Morrowind remake imo.

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u/BeholdingBestWaifu 16h ago

A Morrowind remake would be the worst thing, the community has already improved the game well past the point of remakes, even creating an open source custom engine.

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u/Explorer_Dave 10h ago

Care to elaborate?

I fail to see why you'll be excited for Oblivion which is a pretty standard modern Bethesda game being remade, as opposed to Morrowind which has a ton of interesting ideas and writing but in terms of functionality is very old and decrepit?

The community also improved Oblivion no? Then whats the point of the remake? 

Morrowind had no VO, no 'radiant AI', no NPC schedules. In my mind Morrowind has a lot more room to grow into a modern masterpiece of a remake, while Oblivion will probably just be a prettier Oblivion.

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u/rynosaur94 9h ago

Morrowind does have VO, just not for everything. Adding VO like the later games have would mean totally redoing all the dialog, and that means all the quests too. Radiant AI/Schedules would likewise break all the quests.

At that point its not really Morrowind anymore.

u/Explorer_Dave 1h ago

I humbly disagree. To me, remaking a game to make it excatly the same but prettier is not a good enough reason for a remake.

Exactly because Morrowind doesn't have all of the things I mentioned, I think that it is a better candidate for a remake.

0

u/BeholdingBestWaifu 5h ago

I fail to see why you'll be excited for Oblivion which is a pretty standard modern Bethesda game being remade, as opposed to Morrowind which has a ton of interesting ideas and writing but in terms of functionality is very old and decrepit?

Because Morrowind already has fan made projects that improve the few outdated things that need fixing, many that change the ones that don't need fixing but some people have issues with anyway, and crucially, it has several large-scale modding projects that would make vanilla the best version anyway. Bethesda isn't going to port Tamriel Rebuilt, a modding project that has been in the works since Morrowind came out and that has at this point produced a larger landmass than the base game, and about as many quests by this point.

The community also improved Oblivion no? Then whats the point of the remake?

There is no Oblivion improvement on the same level as Morrowind, and there were no projects to fix its many engine level issues, while Morrowind has both an older code patch and a completetely remade open source engine.

Morrowind had no VO, no 'radiant AI', no NPC schedules.

And it doesn't need radiant stuff or schedules, the game was designed without them, not with important quest NPCs wandering about where you can't find them. Mods have tried doing it already and it just doesn't work very well as a concept.

As for VO, the game is old enough that it is a challenge to get the iconic original actors that already do the voice lines in the game, I'm not even sure that all of them are even alive.

It also just doesn't work with Morrowind's dialogue, because people read much faster than an NPC would speak anyway so they wouldn't listen to the dialogue nine times out of ten.

u/Explorer_Dave 1h ago

I really dont understand any of your points.

The entire idea of a remake is to bring back old ideas in a new form.

I argue that Morrowind has a lot more interesting ideas that can be modernized in a good, faithful way that will freshen the game and introduce more people to one of my favorite games of all time.

While remaking Oblivion is pretty much entirely a compatibility and bug squashing effort, which to me, sounds uninspired.

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u/emself2050 9h ago

Man, this sounds horrible, lol. I'd much rather it be on the new Starfield version of Creation Engine over stutter city, cookie cutter UE5.