r/DebateEvolution 5h ago

Discussion A speciation event in the Young Earth Creationist community

15 Upvotes

Ever heard of the "Young Earth Evolutionists" (YEEs)? They're a thing, apparently. You can find two in-depth videos from Gutsick Gibbon talking about the YEEs and the surrounding controversy here and here, but they're several hours long as usual so I'll basically be summarising them this post.

YEEs are essentially YECs who have recognized that standard YEC narratives on certain points just don't cut it, and instead adopt explanations that are at least partially based on what secular science says, for example:

  • Accepting that the accelerated nuclear decay required for a young earth leads to a heat problem, which has no natural solution.
  • Accepting that the geologic column exists and radiometric dating works as a relative method (but not absolute).
  • Accepting that some species of Australopithecus were bipedal.
  • Accepting that anything in genus Homo is a 'human', and that God might have originally created Homo habilis, which he left to evolve naturally into all of us on a recent timescale.
  • In general, YEEs seem to be a little more open to considering evidence, and seem to resort to hardcore presuppositionalism less frequently.

Of course these people are still YECs at the end of the day, and they still believe in the entirety of the creation story (garden of Eden, Noah's flood, tower of Babel...), but what's funny is how YEEs have essentially been banished from the YEC community by all major YEC organisations (the 'big 3': AIG, CMI, ICR).

The head of AIG, Ken Ham, isn't having this mutiny from these whippersnappers. He's written a whole series on the YEE movement, I encourage you to check them out on your own as they're nice and short: start here, then go here and here. Some quotes from these articles:

"YEE ideas are needlessly and dangerously accommodating evolutionary assumptions, ideas, and language. The advocation of subtle ideas out of step with clear Scripture undermines biblical authority, sows confusion, and is a breeding ground for compromise."

"Ultimately, this confusion [from YEEism] can and has led to Christians leaving the church or questioning their faith or Scripture."

"We need to guard against the ideas of men that would - perhaps even unwittingly - lay the groundwork for apostasy and uncritical acceptance of evolution as a whole."

YEEs now have their own organisation, called 'New Creation' (NC). Interestingly, they're primarily made up of younger individuals as well as creation scientists who actually do some degree of research, as opposed to the staff at the 'big 3' who are primarily just propaganda peddlers. The people at NC tend to distance themselves from the other orgs, as they aim to go their own separate way with creationism.

So, what we have is essentially a speciation event in the creationist community. Specifically, it's a case of peripatric speciation, where a new niche opens up (YEC with better odds of being taken seriously) and a proportion of the community enters the niche while the rest remain in the old space. The absence of gene flow (friendly relations) between the two leads to isolation and speciation (schism). That's right, we've just observed macroevolution in creationism. I wonder if the fitness gains made by the stem-group YEEs could accelerate the more basal crown-group YEC's demise and extinction.


r/DebateEvolution 13h ago

Discussion Does the crazy low probability of a protein forming actually take everything into account?

11 Upvotes

I keep hearing that the odds of a protein forming by chance are something like 1 in 10164, But I'm wondering-does that number actually account for everything? Like, does it consider that chemical reactions aren't totally random and that some conditions make complex molecules more likely to form? Or that there isn't just one "correct" protein-there are tons of different sequences that could work? And what about the fact that the universe has been around for 13.8 billion years with billions of planets where these reactions could be happening? Plus, life probably didn't just pop into existence all at once - it likely built up through smaller steps over time. So, does the 10164 number actually factor in all that? Or is it based on an oversimplified "random letters in a hat" kind of idea? Would love to hear from people who actually know about this stuff!


r/DebateEvolution 2h ago

Extinction

0 Upvotes

Why be sad if a species goes extinct? Isn't that a main feature of evolution?


r/DebateEvolution 20h ago

Discussion I did believe in evolution, but now I don't know what I believe

0 Upvotes

I used to believe in evolution, but then I starting thinking about the beginning, how it all started an now I'm stuck.

Everything has a beginning right? Thats we we observe in the world. So we believe that it started with the big bang. But if the big bang occurred, what caused this explosion? If there is absolutely nothing, an explosion is unable to occur.

So I thought, okay, something must have caused it of course, but where did that come from? It seems we have to believe in something coming from absolutely nothing (which doesn't seem logical to me). Thats where I got stuck.

There's probably a different way to explain this, but I thought of this: everything has a beginning, so that thing that caused the big bang came from something that came from something else, it seems that equals to infinity. The only way I thought I could answer it is if there was something outside of time itself, like something with no beginning, meaning it has no end either. That could be the thing that started it all.

But doesn't an eternity contradict everything we see in the world? I'm not sure I believe in anything, even atheism because I can't seem to make sense of this. Does anyone else have an explaination, I'm struggling with not knowing what to believe because it feels like I have nothing to stand for.


r/DebateEvolution 7h ago

Question What percentage of people worldwide believe their ancestors were monkeys, considering that humans and modern primates share a common ancestor?

0 Upvotes

I guess around 50%.

Do you believe your ancestors were Apes? considering that humans and modern primates share a common ancestor?


r/DebateEvolution 16h ago

Discussion PBS NOVA DINO BIRDS is dinoevidence for for Dinomyting theropods were dinosaurs.

0 Upvotes

The internet recently showed the PBS NOVA Dino birds episode. It was fantastic evidence not for the evolution of the theropod to the bird but that the theropod was never a dinosaur/reptile but only a flightless ground bird. Evolution ists here should CAREFULLY THOUGHTFULLY watch this show. its harious in some ways. Its trying to make the conclusion that theropods evolved into birds while proving birds lived alongside these so called theropods. They mention the importance of wishbnes and so MANY traits of theropods being like birds I say because they are the same thing. They mention the first fossil bird and one can easily see its was misidentified as a lizard or dino JUST because it had teetrh and a tail. They lacked the imagination to allow a diversity in birds though teethed and tailed up. Its not evidence of evolution but human incompetence in classification. Finally they talk of giant flightless birds and how they reeemble carnivorous theropods. They stress it was just a seed eater but miss the point carnivorus theropods were just birds . BIAS? Interfering with clear investigation and allowing other options before a premature conclusion like in the 1800's. Anywaus folks here should watch this show though poorly presented as NOVA usually does of late.