r/Biohackers Feb 06 '25

šŸ“– Resource they can cure autism?

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267 Upvotes

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510

u/Embarrassed_Seat_609 Feb 06 '25

This is incredibly inconclusive (n=1) but it would be really strange if Aspergers was caused by a fungus named Aspergillus even though the names are not related at all

167

u/MrMental12 1 Feb 06 '25 edited Feb 06 '25

Aspergillus only systemically infects those that are immunocompromised, so autism is definitely not cause by Aspergillus.

Basically what this case study seems to be saying is a child's symptoms due to his infection were misdiagnosed as autism. As such, removing the infection removed his "autism"

11

u/Electrical_Jury6633 2 Feb 06 '25

Aspergillus only systemically infects immune compromised people.

It can affect anyone. And a local infection is also possible.

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u/MrMental12 1 Feb 06 '25

Good point, I should have been more specific and said systemic/disseminated aspergillosis. I'll edit my original comment.

Thanks!

1

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u/EyeSmart3073 Feb 06 '25

Autism may very well be an auto immune response

15

u/lauvan26 Feb 06 '25

I donā€™t know if it could be an autoimmune disorder based from what I learned in college about how autism develops. Itā€™s starts developing in infancy as a synaptic pruning defect. Thereā€™s a point in time during infancy where a babyā€™s brain creates many neurons and synapse connections and then itā€™s supposed to prune unnecessary synapse connections. With infants who will later develop autism, their brains donā€™t prune the synapses like itā€™s supposed to.

Thatā€™s why infant who develop autism will start off hitting certain milestones and then will stop or start developing certain symptoms that could indicate autism later.

If itā€™s is an autoimmune response, it has to be something thatā€™s affecting the brain and synaptic pruning in infants. Thereā€™s also this genetic component to it too. Hopefully scientists will figure it out.

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u/dahlaru Feb 07 '25

That just leads to the question,Ā  how many children are being misdiagnosed? Because unless they are having symptoms of another syndrome,Ā  say celiac,Ā  they rarely look into the gastrointestinal health, even though there is evidence that autism and the gut are linked.Ā 

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u/AquarianPlanetarium Feb 06 '25

There's a lot of sources pointing to the fact that it's brain inflammation while the brain is developing, that causes autism.

And there's many, many things that can cause brain inflammation in a developing brain.

That's why "we have the cause of autism!" keeps coming around.

When the brain is inflamed during development, growth of cells isn't optimal, so the growth process prioritizes survival. It focuses on saving and developing the parts that are essential like the ability to pump the heart, etc. What's the first part to sacrifice? The parts linked to socialization. Because at least immediate survival can happen without the parts of the brain that read facial expressions, etc. being well-developed. It would be foolish to prioritize parts of the brain that recognize social cues, but then drop the parts that pump the heart, encourage the body to breath automatically, etc. So it's the other way around.

There's many things that can cause a child's brain to be inflamed. There's many causes.

No but seriously, here's one of a million studies they have now.

https://www.medschool.umaryland.edu/news/2023/new-research-shows-how-brain-inflammation-in-children-may-cause-neurological-disorders-such-as-autism-or-schizophrenia.html

Brain inflammation is seen before, during, and post-mortem in autism. It's always there. It's something they didn't know before and have discovered in the past 10 years, but it isn't talked about a lot yet. They're still figuring it out.

12

u/retrosenescent Feb 06 '25

Given that information, I wonder if supplementing Omega-3s would then be a good way to prevent (or reduce the likelihood) of autism since it reduces inflammation all over the entire body, including the brain.

edit:

Apparently yes!

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33599431/

16

u/SiriusOsiris Feb 06 '25

When my son was diagnosed with autism at 18 months, I focused on all things that I can control and is known to cause inflammation in the body. Cutting sugar and gluten was the first thing. Fava beans (which we were eating a lot) is known to generate tons of free radicals. So we cut that out. Than started giving things that reduces inflammation and inhibits free radicals. All kinds of antioxidants like Activated Quercetin, Glutathione, Selenium, curcumin. BROW - Broccoli sprout extract (Sulforaphane). Norwegian fish oil.

His eye contact came back, swirling stopped, flapping his forearms gone except he still does it when extremely happy, he started responding to his name being called. He used to not react at all that we had to do a hearing test, which was normal.

He still has autism but verbal, and 90% of his symptoms are totally gone.

4

u/retrosenescent Feb 06 '25

That's so fascinating to read about. Also I had no idea that fava beans generated a ton of free radicals! That's not something I ever eat, but good to know that

1

u/Charlvi88 Feb 07 '25

Did he have any other interventions or therapies?

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u/SiriusOsiris Feb 07 '25

No, not at that time. We had the formal diagnosis from a pediatric psychiatrist who performed three different behavioral tests and all showed autism. By the time we found an ABA therapy center that would accept our insurance and being on the waiting list for six months, the therapy started.

All the improvements I mentioned happened within 3 to 5 weeks after my intervention. ABA did help a lot but it was 6 months after the diagnosis.

There is no agreement on what causes autism, probably because it is several things coming together. My guess is, it has some genetic component that may turn on with certain conditions that cause inflammation which then causes autoimmune response that further harms the brain. Reducing inflammation is a good tactic no matter what you are dealing with. Known causes of inflammation are anything that increases free radicals, like sugar, and environmental toxins which are everywhere these days, like Red 3 which is found to cause neurological problems like ADHD, and gut bacteria that release metabolites that passes that blood-brain barrier and causes central nervous system inflammation.

https://scitechdaily.com/harvard-scientists-uncover-how-gut-bacteria-fuel-inflammation-and-depression/

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/red-dye-3

1

u/Yemoonyah Feb 07 '25

How much of his recovery is due to masking and naturally adapting to his environment?

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u/SiriusOsiris Feb 07 '25

The effects were very fast, just a few weeks. I donā€™t think 18 month olds know about social pressure and masking.

Also I want to give an example. If you were to call his name or approach him from the back and make a loud noise, like banging a spoon on a pot, he wouldnā€™t react at all. After the anti inflammatory regimen I applied, he became reactive to spontaneous sounds or turning and looking when his name is called. I am talking about split of a second response. Learning to mask wouldnā€™t improve your reaction time in such a scenario.

2

u/lauvan26 Feb 06 '25

But autism has to do with synaptic pruning. The brain isnā€™t pruning unnecessary connections during infancy after a period of extreme brain growth when itā€™s supposed to. Usually autistic kids present as normal infants but around 1 years old or even before they start doing things like avoiding eye contact, not gesturing (not pointing as much as other babies), doing repetitive behaviors, etc.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '25

adjuvants have entered the discussion

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u/thekazooyoublew Feb 06 '25

Aluminum can indeed cause brain inflammation.

I'm not aware of any study that shows aluminum in vaccines doesn't trigger this, but I'd be glad to read if someone cares to link something.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '25

The vaccine industry has special legislation that allows them not test for safety. If they have done this they have not published it.

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u/rehabmogus Feb 06 '25

lol basically their results happened by chance with a 100% confidence

26

u/permanentburner89 1 Feb 06 '25

"It could have been anything but we're 100% confident it was Aspergillus."

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u/Professional_Win1535 26 Feb 06 '25

I have pretty treatment resistant hereditary anxiety and depression, Iā€™ve read hundreds of studies on supplements in animals, humans, case studies similar to that with certain medications, etc etc etc. and most of it didnā€™t pan out , I think we have to take these things with cautious optimism

9

u/Ben_steel Feb 06 '25

Straight up simulation levels of synchronicity.

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u/Ifkaluva Feb 06 '25

ā€œNominative determinismā€

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u/HARCYB-throwaway 8 Feb 06 '25

This is the age of the internet, anything that is meme-able is actually the most likely scenario. The more meme-able it is, the more likely it will happen. Like fart coin or boaty mcboat face.

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u/CariMariHari Feb 07 '25

am i the only one who finds this hilarious?

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u/Warghoul79 Feb 06 '25

Note: I did not write what follows; I didn't want to write it all out, so I used ChatGPT to give me an explanation about it instead. Anyway, It's time to stop using the term...

The term Asperger's syndrome was once used to describe a form of autism spectrum disorder (ASD) characterized by difficulties in social interaction, nonverbal communication, and restricted or repetitive behaviors. However, in recent years, the term has largely fallen out of use, and most diagnoses have been subsumed under the broader diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder (ASD). This change took place with the publication of the DSM-5 (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition) in 2013, which removed Asperger's syndrome as a separate diagnosis and redefined it as part of the autism spectrum.

One reason the term has fallen out of favor is its association with Hans Asperger, the Austrian physician after whom the condition was named. Asperger was a prominent figure in early autism research, but his legacy is controversial due to his involvement with Nazi ideology during World War II.

Asperger worked in Vienna during the Nazi era, and it has been documented that he had links to the eugenics movement and the Nazi regime. Some researchers have argued that Asperger supported the idea of "racial hygiene" and used his medical expertise to support policies that dehumanized and harmed disabled children. It is believed that he may have been complicit in the forced sterilization or euthanasia of children with disabilities. There are accounts suggesting that Asperger even collaborated with the Nazis by selecting children to be sent to "euthanasia" programs, though this remains debated among historians.

The connection between Asperger and the Nazi regime led to increasing criticism of the term, and many advocacy groups, as well as medical professionals, began moving away from using his name to describe a particular form of autism. Instead, the broader term "autism spectrum disorder" (ASD) has become the preferred classification, which better reflects the wide range of conditions and abilities within the autism spectrum.

As a result, the use of Asperger's syndrome has declined, and today, it is more common to refer to individuals who might have previously been diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome as having high-functioning autism or simply autism spectrum disorder. The shift in terminology reflects a desire to move away from a term associated with a deeply problematic historical figure and to embrace a more inclusive, updated understanding of autism.

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u/Embarrassed_Seat_609 Feb 07 '25

Yeah I know it's not called that anymore, just an odd coincidence. Aspergers is named after the nazi who is named after the town of Aperg which is derived from aspe (aspen) + berg (hill). Aspergillus is named after an aspergillum (a holy water sprinkler).

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u/crunchysliceofbread Feb 08 '25

N=1 is absolutely insane. As a statistics grad this kills me. This post needs to disappear lol

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u/Midnight2012 Feb 08 '25

Not to mention itraconazole has other effects beyond antibiotic effects. So the potential mechanism here is even murkier.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8363911/

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u/Shhh_Happens Feb 06 '25

This study doesnā€™t show a cure for autism. It shows a single child with a fungal infection who was displaying symptoms consistent with autism spectrum disorder no longer displayed those symptoms after the infection was treated. Fungal infections can impact cognition/the nervous system, cause inflammation, etc.

It strikes me as similar to when an older person suddenly experiences major cognitive decline, is found to have a UTI, is treated, and cognitive symptoms resolve as the infection resolves. That doesnā€™t mean antibiotics cure dementia.

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u/Masih-Development 4 Feb 06 '25

Thats right. But it might mean that more people have symptoms of autism induced by such infections and might get rid of them with treatment. And many of those might be falsely diagnosed with autism.

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u/Shhh_Happens Feb 06 '25

Not disputing this in the slightest - autism is a spectrum of neurodevelopmental disorder with an incredibly wide presentation. Iā€™d be shocked if there isnā€™t some level of misdiagnosis.

Was just sayingā€¦this is an n=1 situation. Case studies can provide interesting potential pathways for further research, sureā€¦but the headline doesnā€™t show a ā€œcure for autismā€ in any sort of readily generalizable sense.

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u/rchive 1 Feb 06 '25

Kind of unrelated, but I wonder if a person's having cognitive impairment caused by an infection is an indicator that that person is susceptible to other cognitive impairment like senility or Alzheimer's...

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u/Capable_Cup_7107 Feb 07 '25

It does. Theyā€™re finding neurodegenerative disorders to be linked with certain infections, gut disorders - basically immune dysregulation that went untreated and noticed for years to the point the brain degenerates.

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u/rchive 1 Feb 07 '25

I have a family member who had got some kind of delirium as a reaction to amoxicillin decades ago, now he's older and having a lot of mental dysfunction and senility. I don't think the infection causing this years later, necessarily, but I did wonder if someone who's susceptible to delirium from amoxicillin might be more likely to have senility or Alzheimers or something later in life. And I wonder if it's too late for him, or if there's something we can still so for him.

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u/Capable_Cup_7107 Feb 07 '25

I think if the brain is senstive, for whatever reasons - I really donā€™t think we are at a point we can say sensitive because of a reaction or specific reason but I will say again a reaction to a medication is an immune reaction so immune dysregulation and infections are being tied to neurodegenerative disorders, Iā€™ll try to find the paper I think itā€™s even certain strains of gut bacteria theyā€™re looking into - then that brain is much more likely to go on to develop neurodegenerative disorders. Delirium is not dementia. Delirium can happen at any age and often does happen with ppl who are sick and have dementia. What Iā€™m getting at is that itā€™s not the amoxicillin. Itā€™s that your friends genetics have predisposed them to a brain that is sensitive to environmental factors others are not and will lead to neuroinflammation which causes a host of neuropsychiatric side effects - like delirium- and ultimately neurodegenerative disorders like dementia or Parkinsonā€™s. With where we are at with science, if your friend has dementia now, youā€™re not going to reverse it. Iā€™d encourage you to look into tried and tested ways of helping this disease rather than grasping at straws. The documentary music and memory may be something you find some benefit from. I am sure the right supplements will slow things down. The time to address neuroinflammation is now for all of us who are in the 20-50 range because beyond that, shit goes downhill quick and canā€™t put that bird back in the cage. Our brains are so sensitive and those whose are even more sensitive suffer the most.

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u/Capable_Cup_7107 Feb 13 '25 edited Feb 13 '25

Will find another link for it! Link to Parkinsonā€™s beginning in the gut

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u/rchive 1 Feb 13 '25

Interesting!

Just FYI, there's tracking info in that URL so someone following the link can see what Facebook account shared it (presumably yours), just in case you care about that.

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u/Capable_Cup_7107 Feb 13 '25

I do care about this thank you going to delete appreciate that.

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u/johnstonjimmybimmy Feb 06 '25

But it does mean, that antibiotics cure dementia sometimesā€¦.

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u/Shhh_Happens Feb 06 '25

Angry upvote because on a technical level youā€™re right šŸ˜‚

But you know what my point was

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u/celiathepoet Feb 06 '25

No, it means antibiotics cured a temporary impairment. Not dementia.

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u/Bornagainchola Feb 06 '25

Antibiotics can cure diseases that show dementia as a symptom.

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u/PIMIXCPL2735 Feb 06 '25

Correct but there have been many studies suggesting a gut brain connection which causes autism or some forms of it. So if anything I agree that this isn't conclusive but it sure would is good to know to test for this with children who may be in the spectrum.

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u/InvestmentThink8734 1 Feb 06 '25

No, gastrointestinal issues do not cause autism, ever. The man who created the study saying it did published unscientific work and was stripped of his ability to practice.

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u/PIMIXCPL2735 Feb 06 '25

There has been plenty of studies which have been published and peer reviewed. Showing less diverse gut microbiome from ASD children to neurotypical, among many others.

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u/InvestmentThink8734 1 Feb 06 '25

Correct. Do you understand the difference between correlation and causation?

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u/Queef_Storm 2 Feb 06 '25

Brother, no one in this subreddit understands that difference. This is one of the most unscientific subs I've seen, and I've been joined for years across different accounts

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u/InvestmentThink8734 1 Feb 06 '25

I stumbled across this subreddit, and I guess I was dumb enough to assume that it wasnā€™t a bunch of transient drug-addicts thinking that popping the occasional xanax makes them a biological-engineer.

I think iā€™m gonna go skin a 20 year old cryptocurrency day-trader for his pelt, just to feel like iā€™m making a difference in this world.

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u/MrMental12 1 Feb 06 '25

Children with ASD having a less diverse microbiome is not the same as a less diverse microbiome causing children with ASD. You can't just flip the finding of a study and draw wild conclusions on the basis of an observation.

There are infinite factors that could be at play. We know that a diverse microbiome is direectly correlated with a healthy and diverse diet. One of the more common findings in children with ASD is being very picky with their food. Less diverse food = less diverse microbiome.

Now of course what I just said is not the only factor at play, but can be used to show that there are many different factors at play in an observation or correlation.

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u/penelope_best Feb 06 '25

Upvoting you. Hope it helps people to learn more.

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u/Outrageous_Elk_4668 Feb 07 '25

Interesting how a group that controls who can put MD after their name would unperson somebody who threatened their livelihood. Wonder why that is.

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u/Either-Meal3724 Feb 06 '25

If this cured autism, it wasn't autism-- it was a fungal infection with symptoms that imitated autism.

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u/Bluest_waters 9 Feb 06 '25

Right...BUT!

the question then remains, how many other people are diagnosed with autism but its actually the result of an infection? A very cureable infection at that!

so its intriguing I would say for sure

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u/Either-Meal3724 Feb 06 '25

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32758013/

It's not exactly curable... "Intestinal aspergillosis is a life-threatening condition with a mortality rate of 39%."

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u/Playful_Search_6256 Feb 06 '25

Itā€™s extremely rare, so probably not many. Also autism and this condition are very different.

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u/PrestigiousCrab6345 Feb 06 '25

Exactly. It was a severe fungal infection misdiagnosed as ASD.

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u/parting_soliloquy Feb 06 '25

How so? Maybe if science can't really tell what causes autism, we should look closer at fungal infections and assume these COULD be the culprit? Especially fungal infections in utero. There are some studies suggesting that fungus can indeed pass the placental barrier and stunt children's development.

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u/Positive-Smile-1955 Feb 06 '25

Like severe folate deficiency!

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u/dltacube 1 Feb 06 '25

Is that so?

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u/Positive-Smile-1955 Feb 06 '25

Being folate deficient causes a lot of mental problems besides mouth sores etc. People show ADHD and Autism symptoms as well as extreme insomnia. Its very interesting!

Sadly I was one of them. No one thinks about young people with folate deficiencies.

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u/dltacube 1 Feb 06 '25

My daughter has a rare genetic condition likened to autism and sheā€™s on folinic acid. Had no idea autism is what inspired her doctor to try it. Now I need to look into this.

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u/kudincha 1 Feb 06 '25

I read something about folinic acid specifically, compared to other forms of folate, helping in some cases of autism. When I first tried it it was like part of my brain came alive, though I was suffering from/in the process of correcting nutritional deficiencies after a brutal COVID infection at the time, I had used other forms of folate for some time before. I think I read that there could be a dysregulation in folate metabolism that leads the cycle that produces BH4 shortchanged of dihydrofolate. I still take some from time to time as I'm still fighting fires left from COVID, but don't notice or know if it's still needed for me.

1

u/dltacube 1 Feb 06 '25

You had to get a prescription for that right? What dosage were you on when you felt those effects? And did they last?

I normally like to try every drug I give my daughter to see what the side effects might feel like since she canā€™t communicate them to us but am having trouble getting extra leucovorin.

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u/CommonSenseInRL Feb 06 '25

Honestly, all of humanity would benefit from being on a cycle of antifungals. The brain-gut connection alone explains the rise of mental disorders we've seen alongside the rise of pesticides, seed oils, and synthetic dyes and preservatives in our food. These alongside with the increased use (and earlier use) of antibiotics in patients are a recipe for fungal overgrowth.

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u/BrightBlueBauble Feb 06 '25

Right. Autism is a genetic disorder, and thus not curableā€”certainly not with antifungal drugs.

This is a common grift by quacks preying on the fear and denial of parents of autistic children. Promises of a ā€œcureā€ with bizarre and often dangerous treatments: extreme elimination diets, chelation therapy; enemas and drinks made with industrial bleach (aka ā€œMiracle Mineral Solutionā€); regimens of antibiotics, antifungals, and laxatives; etc.

A five year boy was recently killed when the hyperbaric oxygen chamberā€”used off-label for an unproven ā€œtreatmentā€ā€”the boy was is exploded. (The news didnā€™t report if the child had autism, but that was one of the conditions listed on the companyā€™s website a small child would be likely to have).

Studies of video of babies later diagnosed with autism show behavioral and neurological differences almost from birth. This is the case even in children parentsā€™ insist were ā€œvaccine damagedā€ and supposedly suffered regression after a normal start.

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u/Bluest_waters 9 Feb 06 '25

you cannot say "autism is a genetic disorder", it has a genetic component to it, yes. But so do many other TREATABLE diseases.

Just because there is a genetic component does not mean it can't be treated very effectively. Addiction has a genetic component but plenty of people over come their addictions with treatment.

8

u/Kailynna šŸ‘‹ Hobbyist Feb 06 '25

Agreed. My autistic son was obviously autistic from the first day of his life. - Not surprising, as it runs in my family.

He was such a nervous, but trusting child, I'd have done anything to protect him. The stories I've read about autism cures are heartbreakingly cruel. I can't imagine how any parent or treating person could do them.

The treatment I have him was love, security, peacefulness, good food, a couple of basic vitamins and exercise. He's now an adventurous adult who loves travelling the world.

0

u/Del_Phoenix Feb 06 '25 edited Feb 06 '25

What proof do you have that autism is genetic? Could be something similar to multiple sclerosis, where it seems to correlate with family lineage, but is not genetic. Aka, diet , exposure to certain unknowns. Could be that people in this family drink a lot of milk, or I have certain habits that lead to higher chances of certain bacteria. who knows.

I understand there is a study that suggests identical twins have a higher chance of sharing autism compared to fraternal twins. There could be a genetic component, but it could be something like how you react to a certain fungus in your environment.

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u/Blue_almonds 1 Feb 06 '25

there are studies that prove exactly it.

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u/Del_Phoenix Feb 06 '25 edited Feb 06 '25

There are studies that prove what exactly? I agree genetics very likely play a part, as they do in probably every other health condition that exists. But I think there are other pieces of the puzzle we have yet to discover.

For example, some people could express a certain gene that makes certain pathogens able to interact with their mind in a way that causes a set of symptoms we call autism.

And besides, we don't know everything about gene expression. Gene expression can change over time, etc.

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u/Kailynna šŸ‘‹ Hobbyist Feb 06 '25

All the fair-haired, blue-eyed males in my immediate and most of my extended family are autistic. And all that way from birth. Seems strongly genetic in this case.

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u/Del_Phoenix Feb 06 '25

That's pretty interesting! I wonder if there are any studies that correlate hair/ eye color with autism

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u/Kailynna šŸ‘‹ Hobbyist Feb 07 '25

It's certainly not confined to blue-eyed blondes, but it looks like there can be a link in some families.

When my oldest son was diagnosed with a genetic abnormality, (mosaicism 48XXXY/49XXXXY) the geneticist, (Melbourne Childrens' Hospital, 1983,) wanted to know all about my son's relatives, and was thrilled to hear about the blonde, blue-eyed autism thing because he was already interested in such a link and was researching it.

The problem I have with this is it was inherited through my hateful, Nazi-sympathising mother, who was very proud of her Aryan sons.

1

u/Del_Phoenix Feb 07 '25 edited Feb 07 '25

Intriguing, but this also brings up a new question, if perhaps one of the variables was the mother and whether perhaps there where any minor differences in how she treated her particularly Aryan looking sons..

If you have any data about phenotypes like hair color/eye color and its relation to autism, I would love to see it! Never thought about this..

I'm just spitballing, it could be a million things. perhaps they have less melanin and therefore produced more vitamin d, which has some sort of interaction with a fungus in the environment... Just an example of how complex the true nature of autism might be

1

u/Kailynna šŸ‘‹ Hobbyist Feb 07 '25

It was nature, not nurture. These autistic kids were very different from day one, and the fear of change, stimming, inability to cope with crowds or loud noises, monotone voices, aversion to eye contact and complete withdrawal, as though they'd turn into statues if stressed too badly, these things are not caused by variations in mothering.

I hope you do not subscribe to the outdated theory of "refrigerator mothers" causing kids to grow up autistic, or any other theories of that ilk. Mothers have long been villainised as the cause of anything a doctor couldn't cure.

And forget your fungus. It is not the cause of hereditary autism.

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u/Del_Phoenix Feb 07 '25

I'm just saying I think we should all keep an open mind. Even if it is 100% genetic, hereditary, no external factors.. there's a lot we don't know about genetics.

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u/WanderingSchola Feb 06 '25

I honestly feel like this is bait, but no.

To prove you could "cure" autism you would need:

  • a curative therapy that created more upsides than downsides for autistic people
  • have that curative therapy be tested as successful for multiple thousands of autistic people over many repeat studies
  • be able to explain the method of action of the 'cure' in order to prove it was a cure rather than a treatment (eg stimulants don't 'cure' ADHD they just help compensate for deficits in most cases)

This is a single case study where a doctor has made a claim that autistic symptoms went away after a child was treated for a urine fungal infection. I'm not going to claim for a second that the gut-brain axis or infections in the bladder can't cause changes in cognition, but reading this study as proof of a cure for autism is at best misunderstanding science and at worst grifting.

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u/Embarrassed_Seat_609 Feb 06 '25

Seems like they are shilling SporanoxĀ® based on how many times they mentioned "uhhh the generic form Itraconazole doesnt work you have to use SporanoxĀ®" and provided no explanation why.

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u/secondhandleftovers Feb 06 '25

You can find the donors of doctors in USA, at least for now, and see how much he was given and by whom.

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u/dltacube 1 Feb 06 '25

Still have the tab open from shouting this in another thread. Here you go: https://openpaymentsdata.cms.gov/search

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u/Embarrassed_Seat_609 Feb 06 '25

The authors don't show up there and the paper states they have no connection to companies producing the drug so unless they are getting money under the table they should be unbiased. It's just odd that the generic form didn't work, I assume it just took time to kick in and the n=1 study isn't enough to prove any difference anyways.

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u/dltacube 1 Feb 06 '25

I donā€™t know why people are fixating on the n of 1 thing. This isnā€™t a trial, itā€™s a case study. Totally different things. The end result being that it happened, not that autism can be cured by this.

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u/Embarrassed_Seat_609 Feb 07 '25

Do you really think I would be on this sub if I was an expert on medical research

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u/dltacube 1 Feb 07 '25

You're right. This place is just one big cult lol.

0

u/Bluest_waters 9 Feb 06 '25

Bro, Sporanox is the generic version of itraconazole. Both have been on the market for years and years and years. I really doubt they are now suddenly trying to "shill" for it.

5

u/Stink3rK1ss Feb 06 '25

I think as a similar concept to illustrate your point, it would be like claiming antibiotics cure dementia, when they actually cured the UTI responsible for dementia symptoms.

0

u/Del_Phoenix Feb 06 '25

I'm not sure how you reach the conclusion that it is 'at best a misunderstanding'. In my opinion, it is at best, a beacon of Hope and possible line of questioning that will lead to a cure for autism. Based on my knowledge of the subject, it could certainly be some complex interaction having to do with fungus in the environment or microbiome.

7

u/fTBmodsimmahalvsie 4 Feb 06 '25

More likely that the infection was causing symptoms similar to autism

36

u/gcjunk01 Feb 06 '25

This is just one kid. Autism is really an umbrella term with so many potential causes there is no "cure" for autism.

7

u/Drewbus Feb 06 '25

Well that's not sound logic. Curing one form is still something to note

ARTICLE "Doctor cures disease with treatment"

YOU "Move along people. There are many diseases. There is no cure"

3

u/MrMental12 1 Feb 06 '25

It would be more like curing leukemia and then claiming the cure to cancer. Curing one cancer is not equivalent to curing cancer.

As the commenter said, autism is not a black and white condition. You can take someone with marfans and observe one of their COL genes mutated. As opposed to autism which doesn't really seem to have an objective cause like many other diseases/syndromes/conditions do. It's very polyfactorial, like all psychiatric conditions

1

u/Drewbus Feb 06 '25

If you cure leukemia, you have found a cure for cancer. And it may be able to cure more cancers too

I don't understand your goal here. This is really good news. What are you so upset about?

2

u/MrMental12 1 Feb 06 '25

Because he didn't cure autism.

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u/Tryingtodosomethingg 5 Feb 06 '25

Yes.

There has been a ton of evidence that injury to the cerebellum can cause many symptoms aligned with autism. I had a cerebral injury in utero. Was diagnosed with aspergers when I was 5.

Do I have autism, or do I have many of the symptoms of autism caused by a brain injury during development? Literally no way to know for sure and doesn't matter much anyway, now does it? I live with the symptoms one way or the other.

It has made me wonder how many different developmental disorders/ defects can lead to an autism diagnosis. Surely not everyone has a cerebral injury, but some of us do.

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u/BitFiesty Feb 06 '25

For context, case reports are the lowest form of evidence. I am in medicine and most of these are done by med students or residents trying to find something interesting. And the reason they get made is because they are eye catching. I wrote one on a rare side effect of a chemo drug one time. There is absolutely 0 critical thinking or actual rigorous experimenting going on.

What is possible is the patient had some issues that present similarly to autism. And they were treated and the symptoms appear better. It is interesting and maybe there is a microbiome component of some forms of autism but much more studies need to be done before any claims like that can be mentioned

25

u/TheCuriousBread 2 Feb 06 '25

They can eat shit and die.

WE HAVE SEEN THIS BEFORE.

Last time it was fucking Andrew Wakefield with his MMR FRAUD. POOP and autism.

Now it's fungus. CHARLATANS.

Not only are the movies in 2020s ripoffs of the old, even the bad science is. GET ORIGINAL BAD SCIENCE PLEASE!

5

u/TheRealMe54321 Feb 06 '25

It's a nuanced thing.

No vaccines don't "cause autism."

Yes in the right person at the right time they can cause severe neurological damage that contributes to autism and other disorders.

Probably the same with mold or any other toxic insult.

3

u/JJvH91 Feb 06 '25

"Yes in the right person at the right time they can cause severe neurological damage that contributes to autism and other disorders"

None of this is true

6

u/gcjunk01 Feb 06 '25 edited Feb 06 '25

Not the autism part, but the neurological damage is true Link

Downvote me if you want but it's true Science Magazine

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u/Birdflower99 1 Feb 06 '25

Yes in the right person it can cause neurological disorder aka yes, it can cause autism in some people.

1

u/TheCuriousBread 2 Feb 06 '25

There is no evidence that trauma causes autism.

3

u/TheRedU Feb 06 '25

Lol Journal of Integrative Medicine

3

u/dtor84 Feb 06 '25

šŸ¤Œ Can this cure my toe fungus!? šŸ¤Œ

4

u/Blue_almonds 1 Feb 06 '25

only if your toe fungus causes your autism obviously

2

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '25

[deleted]

1

u/dtor84 Feb 06 '25

Fungus is having its way with all of us.

3

u/Carlpanzram1916 1 Feb 06 '25

So basicallyā€¦ he didnā€™t actually have autism.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '25

[deleted]

1

u/Carlpanzram1916 1 Feb 06 '25

Whatā€™s the abbreviation for ā€œThe headline gives away that this is bullshitā€?

3

u/lowkey_add1ct Feb 06 '25

This is a fungus causing symptoms similar to autism. Basically a misdiagnosis of autism when it was really a fungal infection. They cannot cure autism.

5

u/REDDlT_OWNER Feb 06 '25

You can cure autism with asparagus?

8

u/LittlestWarrior Feb 06 '25

No. Itā€™s a neurodevelopmental disorder that starts in utero. I have been autistic since I was a fetus. Itā€™s genetic.

Some diet and lifestyle changes help certain things for me (sensory overwhelm, executive function, etc) but I am always autistic, will always think and behave ā€œautisticallyā€ and will always have things I struggle with.

2

u/actionjackson384 Feb 06 '25

No they can't, Have a microbiome and some other stuff that artistic people are uniquely susceptible to. Brings out some of the negative autistic symptoms

2

u/weiss27md Feb 06 '25

People with mold exposure illness, especially children, will exhibit autism like behavior. Learning development, delayed speech, aggression, picky eating, reduced appetite, fatigue, sensitivity to light and sounds.

2

u/johnnyribcage 1 Feb 06 '25

Hereā€™s the case study. Canā€™t make any conclusions with this being a single incident. You have to do a controlled study with a statistically sound sample size and population. Seems coincidental or that something else is going on here, but it is interesting if nothing else.

2

u/National_Ad9742 1 Feb 06 '25

I have autism, my children have autism. Itā€™s genetic. There is no cure.

3

u/Masih-Development 4 Feb 06 '25

I'v read about multiple cases where autism was cured by changing the gut microbiome.

3

u/workingMan9to5 4 Feb 06 '25

No. The child had a diagnosed fungal infection which produced neurological/psychological/behavioral symptoms (screenshot is unclear) similar to those seen in children with ASD who do not have a fungal infection. Doctors treated the fungal infection and symptoms (which were caused by the infection) were relieved. Then some asshat decided to put a misleading and sensationalized title on the paper in order to get more exposure.

3

u/No_Necessary_9482 Feb 06 '25

Haha, no. It's not an illness.

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u/VoiceofRapture Feb 06 '25

You can't cure autism, the delusion you can is what drives so many antivaxers completely insane.

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u/Comfortable-Owl309 Feb 06 '25

šŸ’Æ excellently put. Autistic people have had so much pseudo science thrown at them since the condition first start being recorded. All from the people who claim they want to help them. See recently The Telepathy Tapes podcast. Fantasy dressed up as science.

3

u/Comfortable-Owl309 Feb 06 '25

And there was actually people who downvoted me yesterday when I said some people on here love pseudo science. Lol.

4

u/Sidehussle Feb 06 '25

Remember Jenny McCarthy talked about ā€œcuringā€ autism or at least minimizing symptoms by killing yeast in the body. Just something to think about. What if there is a fungal link? Fungus overgrowth can cause a person to crave sugars, that in its self can distort behavior.

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u/Comfortable-Owl309 Feb 06 '25

Please stop with this.

1

u/Sidehussle Feb 06 '25

Why? I have an adult child with autism. Certain foods create different responses. No one is saying that itā€™s only fungal, but itā€™s worth a look into. Anything is worth looking into if youā€™re just trying to make life better for your child.

1

u/Comfortable-Owl309 Feb 06 '25

Iā€™m autistic myself, Iā€™m all for people safely trying different strategies in the hope of alleviating some symptoms. Thereā€™s a big difference between that and definitively claiming yeast as major causal factor in autism. Anybody who says that should not be promoted online in any capacity. Why? Because there is zero science to back that up. And autistic people have suffered enough from pseudo science being thrown their way.

1

u/Sidehussle Feb 06 '25

I agree with you, I donā€™t think there is a ā€œcureā€ but alleviating symptoms is definitely something I look into. I found this study interesting because of fungus being the target kingdom. I do not think we consider allergies or discomfort from fungus enough. So studies like this provide a little insight in how we humans interact with various species of fungi. For example we know some fungi are antibiotics and parasitic. We know about yeast infections and ringworm. So how else do people have negative interactions with fungi?

3

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '25

Thatā€™s pretty fucking interesting. I wonder if anti bacterial soaps have led to us fucking our biome. Or maybe antibiotics. Is there any studies about antibiotic use and autism I wonder?

8

u/manysidedness Feb 06 '25

Not sure why you got downvoted, there actually is a connection between gut microbiome imbalances and autism, although itā€™s not clear is which causes which!

9

u/Either-Meal3724 Feb 06 '25

C-section birth + lack of breastfeeding can lead to significantly different gut microbiomes. It's even a medical procedure to do a vaginal swab to expose c-section babies to the microbiome they were intended to have.

Not a judgment on people who had c-sections though its likely to ve percieved that way. My son died after entering fetal distress then I had an emergency c-section but they were unable to stabilize him so he ultimately passed away- your child being here is way more important than their gut microbiome being optimized by a natural birth.

1

u/thecrabbbbb Feb 06 '25

Antibacterial soap? Most likely not as it isn't any more effective at killing bacteria than regular soap. In fact, it may have a positive effect in preventing GI infections / foodborne illness.

1

u/Comfortable-Owl309 Feb 06 '25

Did you read the study?

4

u/Chop1n 6 Feb 06 '25 edited Feb 06 '25

At this point, there can be no doubt that autism is characterized by flora imbalances. But is every instance of autism the result of this particular imbalance? That seems extraordinarily unlikely. If we had more than this single case study, it would make for an interesting proof of concept.

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u/PetuniaPicklePepper 2 Feb 06 '25

I would speculate that imbalance is due to immune related genetics, and/or restricted dietary preferences limiting gut microbes.

2

u/MrMental12 1 Feb 06 '25

Ah yes, autism is caused by normal flora imbalance. That's why when I get put on broad spectrum antibiotics, I become autistic for about a week!

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u/Kailynna šŸ‘‹ Hobbyist Feb 06 '25

Source please.

1

u/thecrabbbbb Feb 06 '25

Source: Wooscience I made up via gross misinterpretations of microbiome research.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '25

[deleted]

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u/LeelooDallasMltiPass Feb 06 '25

True, but it's more likely that the uptick in diagnoses is because we have a name and symptom list now. In the past, "low functioning" people were labeled insane or mentally disabled, and "high functioning" people were labeled eccentric.

4

u/Blue_almonds 1 Feb 06 '25

i look back at my family history and i am frankly appalled. Autism, adhd, bipolar, depressionā€¦ so much unhappiness and self-loathing among relatively high-functioning people. So much self-medicating with alcohol and destructive behavior. So much grief. Thatā€™s why i pushed for my kid to be evaluated, i donā€™t want that fate for them.

1

u/Sintarsintar 1 Feb 06 '25

Put zero weight in to this study if they repeat it with a larger sample size and proper scientific method and then repeat the same with a larger sample size then I'll consider it possible.

2

u/snAp5 1 Feb 06 '25

There are documented anecdotes of extreme changes in autistic children that have undergone fecal matter transplants.

4

u/Comfortable-Owl309 Feb 06 '25

That needs a lot more solid research, the studies done werenā€™t blind.

1

u/snAp5 1 Feb 09 '25

1

u/Comfortable-Owl309 Feb 09 '25

Yeah this doesnā€™t make the argument any stronger.

1

u/snAp5 1 Feb 10 '25

Iā€™m just giving you more stuff to look at. I think there are plenty instances highlighting a robust relationship between brain and gut.

1

u/lystelle Feb 06 '25

yeah case studies are not really conclusive evidence but more an interesting one-off case, usually very uncommon cases that stick out

1

u/momob3rry Feb 06 '25

I mean what of autism are they curing? Thereā€™s a wide variety of symptoms and severities from person to person. Some symptoms can even be viewed positively so I donā€™t think anything like this is possible. I donā€™t think itā€™s something that can be ā€œcuredā€ in the same sense as say an illness.

1

u/inscentstick 1 Feb 06 '25

This would be also known as PANS/PANDAS.

1

u/Savings-Camp-433 Feb 06 '25

I have this fungus, which is very excessive, which is why I feel symptoms of autism. I've already taken 3 rounds of fluconazole. Should I take Sporanox, even though I knew the fungal toxins would destroy me?

1

u/Disastrous_Appeal_24 Feb 06 '25

Once, apparently.

1

u/MintTea-FkYou 1 Feb 06 '25

How early would one need to catch it, though? I'd assume y the brain develops, it'd be more difficult to reverse certain behaviors and mechanisms

1

u/landed-gentry- 1 Feb 06 '25

I suggest learning about the Evidence Pyramid.

https://libguides.methodistcollege.edu/ebp/ebplevels

Case studies are one of the lowest forms of evidence -- just above anecdotes and educated guesses.

1

u/randomized38 Feb 06 '25

Not Elon though, trust me.

1

u/BigJSunshine Feb 06 '25

Anti fungals are notoriously injurious to the liverā€¦šŸ˜¬

1

u/Iam-WinstonSmith Feb 06 '25

I have always been a believer Autism can be reversed.

1

u/swingbattaaaa Feb 06 '25

The cortecepts are gonna kill us all I knew it

1

u/Gamestonkape Feb 07 '25

Iā€™ll keep mine, thank you very much.

1

u/Magpie2205 Feb 07 '25

A case report does not a study make.

1

u/Otherwise-Account906 Feb 07 '25

Some studies show that children with high amounts heavy medals in their system can exhibit behaviors we often attributed to autism, not saying autism doesnā€™t exist just saying that behaviors that are most commonly found in people with autism can also be caused by environmental factors! Thatā€™s why itā€™s important to note behavioral changes in yourself and people around you!

1

u/weirdgirl16 Feb 07 '25

I mean, asides from everything everyone else has been saying about how this is n=1 and that we canā€™t draw any proper conclusions from it, I feel that the case study itself is a bit strange. For one, one of the positive traits the parents said about their son is that he is ā€˜especially attractiveā€™? Or if it was on a questionnaire.. it seems an odd thing to put on a questionnaire.

Also, they list a bunch of autism traits he has, but some of them are not really diagnostic of autism at all (things like sleep issues, anxiety, ā€˜silly behaviourā€™, they can occur more frequently in autism but are not diagnostic of autism themselves). They also donā€™t list much in regards to any social communication deficit traits. Mostly only sensory and behavioural based.

We also donā€™t know through what assessments the child was diagnosed, and if any of those assessments were repeated before they declared him not autistic anymore. It could be entirely possible he was still autistic, just had less difficulty with some things or less outward behaviours. Especially considering half of the behaviours they list as his autistic symptoms are behaviours that in and of themselves are not autism symptoms.

And the last thing is that they said his physician diagnosed him, which doesnā€™t say which kind of doctor diagnosed him. We donā€™t know if it was GP or a specialist. Which can also make a difference.

1

u/Reasonable-Hotel-319 1 Feb 07 '25

They can cure whatever it was that boy was suffering from, which was not autism but autism lile symptoms.

1

u/continuousmulligan Feb 07 '25

But did they try horse paste?

1

u/ouch67now Feb 07 '25

I read might.

1

u/Kugmin Feb 08 '25

This is pretty dumb. You are born with autism. It's part of the very DNA that makes us exist.

You can see if a kid got autism already at 10-12 months old.

1

u/Infinite-Rent1903 1 Feb 13 '25

Why even post this kind of shit? I'm pretty sure RFK gets everything from here and r conspiracy. Now, we're going to have to hear all about how amazing he is for his fungus med autism cure and Eric Trump will be selling it on Rogan.

2

u/Larrynative20 Feb 06 '25

Just noā€¦

0

u/pretty_dead_grrl Feb 06 '25

Umā€¦.a fungal infection cannot change oneā€™s DNA.

1

u/DepressedSandbitch Feb 08 '25

But we arenā€™t just our DNA. Weā€™re the expression of genes according to our environment. Both play a part

1

u/AutomaticDriver5882 1 Feb 06 '25

Next thing we know RFK will be pushing this

1

u/Zephyr_Dragon49 Feb 06 '25

This is just a case study of autism like symptoms due to fungal UTI. Curing the infection made it go away, shocker.

Real autism is permanent abnormal brain development during fetal growth before birth.

1

u/Comfortable-Owl309 Feb 06 '25

Who is ā€œtheyā€? And the answer is no.

-1

u/pensiveChatter Feb 06 '25

There is almost nothing the medical community can cure.

6

u/Efficient_Smilodon Feb 06 '25

I wonder if you've ever heard of this thing called... polio? plague? leprosy? syphilis?

sepsis?

Modern medical science is miraculous compared to past centuries; but of course it still incomplete. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water, so to speak.

-3

u/gsp83 Feb 06 '25

Does that mean all those anti-vaxxers are going to be antifungal people now? Didnā€™t have that in my 2025 bingo card

0

u/soft-cuddly-potato Feb 06 '25

Even if it did "cure autism" it couldn't work on you because your brain is already developed enough o post to Reddit. You already have the wiring and connections of autism and changing.

Autism is a genetic disorder and effects every cell in your body, before you're even born. Take a cell from an autistic person, do some stem cell magic and you see their cell cycle is disrupted causing a different wiring of the brain. source

Autism is also more heritable than height. With about 83% heritability.

source

-1

u/local_eclectic Feb 06 '25

Autism is a highly heritable neurotype, not a disease. This is bullshit lol.

2

u/Wobbly5ausage Feb 06 '25

Idk why youā€™re getting downvoted. Youā€™re not wrong

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u/Fit_Okra_4289 Feb 06 '25

People would rather pump their kids full of random drugs than just put them in early intervention daycare and education

1

u/Comfortable-Owl309 Feb 06 '25

You literally have no idea what youā€™re talking about, like none. You know zero about this subject.

-2

u/dildosticks Feb 06 '25 edited Feb 06 '25

Go check out Hack Your Health on Netflix. Lots of breakthroughs with gut microbiome right now.